Origins of Mormon Polygamy

[Brenton]

Am I the only one that thinks that maybe, just maybe, polygamy started with other members of the church, and then Brigham, not Joseph?

[i'll talk about why later on, just wanna see what you all have to say first]

[VisionOfLehi]

Am I the only one who thinks that it wouldn't be so bad if it was allowed again?

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

First off, marriage is an eternal principle. The law of eternal marriage allows a man to have more than one wife. It's all available in http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132a "Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843".

As far as WHEN plural wives are acceptable to the Lord, the Book of Mormon is clear on that:

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

...

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

(emphasis added)

I think a lot of the trouble that comes about because of polygamy is due to a serious lack of understanding on the subject. But in any case, the D&C is quite clear that JS received the doctrine.

[Brenton]

But that doctrine wasnt "found" until after Joseph's death, apparently.

[Hemidakota]

Your assumption is correct. It was not doctrine until years later and under the hand of President Brigham Young when it was finally instituted. When I hear plural marriage, I usually think of Doctrine and Covenants section 132. It is clear that the Prophet Joseph Smith received section 132 before it was recorded but delayed making it known. The Prophet knew the Lord’s will on plural marriage within the new and everlasting covenant probably as early as 1831 (see History of the Church, 5:xxix). In March 1843 he spoke to William Clayton of eternal marriage. In July of that year, he was discussing the doctrine with his brother Hyrum in William Clayton’s presence when Hyrum said, “If you will write the revelation on celestial marriage, I will take it and read it to Emma, and I believe I can convince her of its truth, and you will hereafter have peace” (History of the Church, 5:xxxii).

The Prophet consented and told William Clayton to get some paper to write; but to his brother’s “urgent request” that the Prophet use the Urim and Thummim to recall the exact revelation, Joseph replied that he did not need it, “for he knew the revelation from beginning to end” (History of the Church, 5:xxxii). When he had finished dictating, William Clayton read it back slowly, and Joseph said that it was exact.

Bishop Newel K. Whitney heard the revelation read and asked permission of the Prophet Joseph Smith to have it copied. With the Prophet’s approval, Bishop Whitney sent Joseph C. Kingsbury the next day to copy it. Brothers Kingsbury and Clayton compared the copy line by line to the original and found it correct.

The revelation was not made public until Elder Orson Pratt, under the direction of President Brigham Young, announced it at a Church conference on 29 August 1852. The revelation was placed in the Doctrine and Covenants in 1876.

[rameumptom]

Evidence is very strong that Joseph was practicing it, though it was rather secretive. Even the Nauvoo Expositor was partially correct in its attempt to expose it.

[Moksha]

Do we as Mormons need to regard polygamy as something other than a mistake of the past?

[NeuroTypical]

Am I the only one that thinks that maybe, just maybe, polygamy started with other members of the church, and then Brigham, not Joseph?

No, there are other folks who will pass over pretty sound evidence to the contrary also. Many of them are members of the CoC/RLDS, and other such organizations that didn't follow Brigham west.

Are you one?

LM

[HiJolly]

Am I the only one that thinks that maybe, just maybe, polygamy started with other members of the church, and then Brigham, not Joseph?

[i'll talk about why later on, just wanna see what you all have to say first]

No, the evidence is clear that Joseph Smith Jr. started it. He received the revelations leading to what is recorded as D&C section 132 when he was living in Kirtland, OH. He wrote it in Nauvoo, after which it was read in the Nauvoo High Council meeting.

There are also many journals relating the doctrine in one form or another, all before the martyrdom of Joseph. There is no question from the evidence available to historians, that it did not start with Brigham or anyone else.

HiJolly

[HiJolly]

Do we as Mormons need to regard polygamy as something other than a mistake of the past?

Maybe some do. Myself, for example. I'll grant that it sure caused (and still does, sort of) a lot of grief.

HiJolly

[Elphaba]

Am I the only one that thinks that maybe, just maybe, polygamy started with other members of the church, and then Brigham, not Joseph?

[i'll talk about why later on, just wanna see what you all have to say first]

What other members do you think started the practice of polygamy, but not Joseph?

Elphaba

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Do we as Mormons need to regard polygamy as something other than a mistake of the past?

So you're saying God makes mistakes?

[Moksha]

So you're saying God makes mistakes?

Wait a minute, is that a veiled reference to either the platypus or Newark, New Jersey?

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Definitely the platypus, but I'm surprised you saw through it?

[Fiannan]

Do we as Mormons need to regard polygamy as something other than a mistake of the past?

There may be some but then they have not reserched the Gospel enough if that is their position -- either modertn day (restoration) or the history of the Old and New Testament.

[VisionOfLehi]

I would say it's not a mistake at all if it had success in raising up seed unto God.

[Moksha]

I would say it's not a mistake at all if it had success in raising up seed unto God.

Are the FLDS still making this 'seed unto God' claim?

[VisionOfLehi]

Don't know, don't care. The Prophets have spoken for the Lord on this matter.

[a-train]

At the end of the day, all of Judeo-Christianity must accept the fact that their scriptures came from prophets practicing polygamy. Abraham, Jacob-Israel, his brother Esau, and Manasseh, are said by the Bible itself to be polygamists. Even good Moses took an Ethiopian wife while married to Zipporah, his Semite wife (Exo. 12:1); and he caught some flack for it from his siblings. Thus, the Holy Torah itself came by the hand of a polygamist.

'First cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.' (Matt. 7:5)

-a-train

[Fiannan]

Are the FLDS still making this 'seed unto God' claim?

Not sure, but I suppose someone has to make up for all the American women who aren't having babies nowadays.

[EarthyAngel]

Am I the only one who thinks that it wouldn't be so bad if it was allowed again?

I think it's an awesome idea. You'd see a mass exodus from the Church, but the 1 or 2 million who'd remain faithful would probably survive it.

[EarthyAngel]

Maybe some do. Myself, for example. I'll grant that it sure caused (and still does, sort of) a lot of grief.

HiJolly

Was it the doctrine that caused and still causes the grief, or the saints disobedience of the principle?

[pam]

Not sure, but I suppose someone has to make up for all the American women who aren't having babies nowadays.

*sigh* Once again moving this back to women not having babies.

[HiJolly]

Was it the doctrine that caused and still causes the grief, or the saints disobedience of the principle?

Mostly individual Saint's disobedience, I think. Yet, it was also that we (speaking of the 1850-1890 Church) did not do well in proactively living a saintly 'Zion' existence. Disobedience was a big problem, but magnifying the Principle was even more requisite for polygamy's success, IMO, than just basic obedience.

HiJolly

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Mostly individual Saint's disobedience, I think. Yet, it was also that we (speaking of the 1850-1890 Church) did not do well in proactively living a saintly 'Zion' existence. Disobedience was a big problem, but magnifying the Principle was even more requisite for polygamy's success, IMO, than just basic obedience.

HiJolly

It's important to remember that plural marriage was a calling, not a commandment (Eternal marriage was the commandment). The disobediance to this principle revolved more around those who had been called refusing to accept the calling, and those who had not been called choosing to practice it anyway.

In any case, the cultural umbrella we live under doesn't like the idea of polygamy, and that is where the real grief stems from. Most of the (indigenous) cultures in the world actually find the practice very acceptable, and I don't imagine that portion of Church history causes any problems in those cultures. It's Europe and the child cultures of Europe (us included) that find the idea difficult to swallow.