Rev Fred Phelps

[CJchick84]

I was watching a documentary the other night on television that was about this man. Let me tell you what a character!!!! He's a former attorney and Baptist preacher. He is 80 something years old and his congregation basically is made up of immediate and extended family...he has a large one. He and his family preach hate....that God hates everyone but them and that the rest of us are going to eternal damnation and so on and so forth. He and his family are fond of picketing especially gay pride parades...he really hates the homosexual community. They hold up signs saying "God Hates F*gs..things like that Well that sort of got me upset because I do have friends that happen to be gay but I'm not one to go against freedom of speech. Even though it is against most of our beliefs it really doesn't bother me. What really upset me and put so much anger and sadness in my heart was that these people were picketing funerals. Funerals that were for soldiers that died in Iraq...signs saying "Thank God for Dead Soldiers", "Thank God for 911" I mean come on!!! They actually believe that God is killing the soldiers on purpose because everyone is going to hell anyway and he is punishing people. Not only this but these people have their 5, 6, 7 year old kids holding these signs and saying nasty things to people. Has anyone heard of this guy before? I pray that they see the harm they are causing to other people and to their own children.

[BenRaines]

This guy has been in the news for a couple of years. Some communities have successfully banned him from the funerals for their soldiers.

He is what is wrong with freedom of speech.

Ben Raines

[Gwen]

we had a big debate in chat about this once...... i think when it comes to funerals and weddings this kind of "freedom of speech" shouldn't be allowed.

[Hemidakota]

I was watching a documentary the other night on television that was about this man. Let me tell you what a character!!!! He's a former attorney and Baptist preacher. He is 80 something years old and his congregation basically is made up of immediate and extended family...he has a large one. He and his family preach hate....that God hates everyone but them and that the rest of us are going to eternal damnation and so on and so forth. He and his family are fond of picketing especially gay pride parades...he really hates the homosexual community. They hold up signs saying "God Hates F*gs..things like that Well that sort of got me upset because I do have friends that happen to be gay but I'm not one to go against freedom of speech. Even though it is against most of our beliefs it really doesn't bother me. What really upset me and put so much anger and sadness in my heart was that these people were picketing funerals. Funerals that were for soldiers that died in Iraq...signs saying "Thank God for Dead Soldiers", "Thank God for 911" I mean come on!!! They actually believe that God is killing the soldiers on purpose because everyone is going to hell anyway and he is punishing people. Not only this but these people have their 5, 6, 7 year old kids holding these signs and saying nasty things to people. Has anyone heard of this guy before? I pray that they see the harm they are causing to other people and to their own children.

Being preacher of hate is not of GOD we clearly see. Very unfortunate that his family members do follow him. Though, there is a space for him after death that is well suited for his kind of rhetoric....

[Yekcidmij]

There is nothing "reverend" about Freddy Phelps. Now, Westboro Baptist church - THAT IS a cult, and a dangerous one at that.

[CJchick84]

I agree

[NeuroTypical]

Rev. Phelps is the only person on the face of the planet that could have me cheering for Michael Moore. Michael got a bright pink bus called the "sodomobile", filled it with gay folk and covered it with gay propaganda, and went and suckered Phelps into an interview. I can't exactly say that the forces of good won the day, but Phelps retreated, and that's worth at least a head nod.

LM

[Gwen]

let's be careful here.....how many have said, "those mormons, yeah, they aren't christian, they are a cult"

[BenRaines]

I wouldn't call them a cult but I do remember this "By their fruits ye shall know them". Their fruits are one of hate and disgrace.

Ben Raines

[Moksha]

I wish the Reverend Phelps followers would all join the Landover Baptist Church instead. They would do less harm by staying with this online ministry.

[CJchick84]

I wish the Reverend Phelps followers would all join the Landover Baptist Church instead. They would do less harm by staying with this online ministry.

what is the landover baptist ministry

[Moksha]

what is the landover baptist ministry

I thought better of posting the link, but you can google it. Don't be too shocked for it is satire.

[CJchick84]

Oh my goodness....all I have to say about those people is....wow:huh:

[breeb]

I thought better of posting the link, but you can google it. Don't be too shocked for it is satire.

I may need to get me one of the "Unsaved people please identify yourselves" shirts. The witch one would be fun to have.

[ErikJohnson]

What I find striking about this thread is that no one seems interested in critiquing Reverend Phelps vis-à-vis what the Bible says on these matters.

What exactly is the objection of this thread’s author? As I read her post, it seemed to me that her objections were not really about Reverend Phelps per se. Rather, her true objections are against what the Bible itself reveals to us concerning the nature of God.

Does God not hate the wicked? Psalm 5:5 answers, "You hate all evildoers." Does God not punish nations? Does God not take life? Does God not send people to hell to experience His wrath and punishment—for eternity? And are Christians directed to keep their mouths shut about such things on certain occasions (e.g., military funerals)?

It often comes as a surprise to folks who haven't actually read the Bible, whose understanding of God is informed by popular culture, to learn that there are considerably more verses that speak of God's wrath, His anger, His hate—than there are of verses that speak of His love. God clearly possesses both attributes, according to the Bible. And yet this truth seems difficult for many to accept.

No, I'm not defending Reverend Phelps, his followers and their tactics. I see no Biblical foundation whatever that God kills our service men and women to express His displeasure with homosexual activity in the United States. The wages of sin is undisputedly death—but I think it's outrageous and profoundly un-Biblical to suggest homosexual sin is somehow worse in God's eyes than sin committed by heterosexuals. The Bible makes clear that all sexual activity outside of heterosexual marriage is sin. And the Bible explicitly states, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it" (James 2:10). Anyone who feels righteous or smug that he (or she) doesn’t have homosexual inclinations, and feels he can point his finger at a particular group of sinners without first pointing it at himself—is a raving hypocrite. And that, I think, troubles me most about Reverend Phelps.

Other thoughts? It’s an old thread, but I think the issues raised in it merit further consideration.

--Erik

[abqfriend]

I have no problem if someone within their own church/synagogue wishes to proclaim hate. I have a big problem when they bring that message to some very private and personal events such as the funeral of someone-especially someone who may have served his or her country.

Funerals are personal-very personal. Trev. Phelps and his followers are uninvited guests to a very personal event.

Yes-Sin is Sin. There are many times that Sacred Scripture says that God hates sin. The New Testament in particular is about love-and as Christians that should be how we treat each other homosexual or heterosexual, male or female and of any ethnic or religious orientation or none at all. 1st Corinthians chapter 13 is a pretty good reference.

The greatest Love in the world was -The Son-and The Atonement-what better example than that.

-Carol

What I find striking about this thread is that no one seems interested in critiquing Reverend Phelps vis-à-vis what the Bible says on these matters.

What exactly is the objection of this thread’s author? As I read her post, it seemed to me that her objections were not really about Reverend Phelps per se. Rather, her true objections are against what the Bible itself reveals to us concerning the nature of God.

Does God not hate the wicked? Psalm 5:5 answers, "You hate all evildoers." Does God not punish nations? Does God not take life? Does God not send people to hell to experience His wrath and punishment—for eternity? And are Christians directed to keep their mouths shut about such things on certain occasions (e.g., military funerals)?

It often comes as a surprise to folks who haven't actually read the Bible, whose understanding of God is informed by popular culture, to learn that there are considerably more verses that speak of God's wrath, His anger, His hate—than there are of verses that speak of His love. God clearly possesses both attributes, according to the Bible. And yet this truth seems difficult for many to accept.

No, I'm not defending Reverend Phelps, his followers and their tactics. I see no Biblical foundation whatever that God kills our service men and women to express His displeasure with homosexual activity in the United States. The wages of sin is undisputedly death—but I think it's outrageous and profoundly un-Biblical to suggest homosexual sin is somehow worse in God's eyes than sin committed by heterosexuals. The Bible makes clear that all sexual activity outside of heterosexual marriage is sin. And the Bible explicitly states, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it" (James 2:10). Anyone who feels righteous or smug that he (or she) doesn’t have homosexual inclinations, and feels he can point his finger at a particular group of sinners without first pointing it at himself—is a raving hypocrite. And that, I think, troubles me most about Reverend Phelps.

Other thoughts? It’s an old thread, but I think the issues raised in it merit further consideration.

--Erik

[Islander]

This is a very interesting subject. I think that disrupting a funeral is an act of supreme insensibility, of extremely bad social manners and even cruel on account of the pain the survivors are going thru. I think they should all get arrested for disturbing the peace and unlawful assembly.

Beyond that, the translations of the hebrew bible are quite tricky and we must check those before we go and say "the bible says..." Psalm 5:5 can read "For Thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness; evil shall not sojourn with Thee." So interpreting this verse requires understanding of the limitations of expressive language, the feelings of the original writer and the constrains fo the translation.

I find more useful to lend a hand, to encourage healing, to offer support and solace thanm to argue and contend. As disgusted as I am by those cruel and irreverent people, I would not want to cross paths with them.

[prisonchaplain]

To me the greatest testimony to God's hatred of sin is the horror of Christ's passion and crucifixion. The Father would not have allowed his Son to endure any more than he had to. Which means, our sin merited the suffering Christ underwent--it was/is that bad.

[ErikJohnson]

Beyond that, the translations of the hebrew bible are quite tricky and we must check those before we go and say "the bible says..." Psalm 5:5 can read "For Thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness; evil shall not sojourn with Thee." So interpreting this verse requires understanding of the limitations of expressive language, the feelings of the original writer and the constrains fo the translation.

This is not a case of debatable translation, Islander, you're simply citing the preceding verse. Go to the next one. Your KJV reads, "thou hatest all workers of iniquity"--which is saying the same thing as the passage I cited from the ESV. You have to be a little careful because sometimes the numbering of Psalm verses can be off by 1, depending on the translation.

--Erik

[Moksha]

Does God not hate the wicked? --Erik

If we can be discerning enough to say we hate the sin but love the sinner, then surely God can exceed our magnanimity. God is not a hater, he was only written that way. To load on God some ignoble quality is doing Him a disservice.

Edited September 24, 2008 by Moksha

[prisonchaplain]

God has a solution to this dilemma. God clearly hates sin. We all agree about that. And, in a sense, Erik is right. God hates the sinner. However, is not the sinner one who remains unrepentent? The sinner is not the mistaken one, but the rebellious one. And, I am thankful that in this dispensation we mortals have not been given insight into the hearts of others. So, who am I to suggest who will repent and who will not? Rather, I do indeed love those who sin, with the hope that they will be amongst those who repent.

Seems to me that Rev. Phelps sect simply refuses to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. (Was that judgmental??? )