Do you HAVE to give up coffee or can you choose it away?

[Prodigal_Son]

Soooo... no more Wendy's triple stacks?

[Iggy]

I wonder if God would rather you sleep through sacrament or drink a coke to get there and be attentive. Just saying that it mustn't be black and white -- few things in life are.

Can anyone address the issue of the overwhelming majority going to the temple 'unworthy'? In regards to eating meat when not in times of winter or famine.

I am pretty sure that Heavenly Father would rather you went to bed at a decent hour, got enough sleep and left the caffeine alone! Your excuse is not a good one, staying awake in Sacrament!

All coke does is give you a momentary jolt- the crash later is worse than the sleepiness to start with.

As for your second question - are you an expert in knowing that there are truly unworthy members going through the Temple? Or are you just throwing that out to sound impressive.

[Iggy]

"12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine."

It's already been posted... but no one seemed to address it. It's glossed over all the time. It's so easy to choose away.

They had refrigeration in the form of ice/salt and holes in the ground. It wasn't as good as the systems we have in place now -- but they could store things.

I am sure that those who were in one area long enough could do that - where it was cold enough for them to obtain ice, but most of the early members were on the move. Many would prepare a field, plant it - but then move on and some one else would harvest it. Same with meat. Yes, they salted it when they had the salt to spare,and extra meat. But they only killed what they could eat and not waste.

[bmy-]

As for your second question - are you an expert in knowing that there are truly unworthy members going through the Temple? Or are you just throwing that out to sound impressive.

I've met maybe one or two members since i've been around mormons who 'eat meat sparingly'. It's in the WoW and thus it's part of a temple recommend.

I know being eligible for a temple recommend is personal -- and none of my business -- but can one really say they adhere to the word of wisdom when they eat meat almost every day of the week? If one can pick and choose meat away.. and have a blind eye turned.. shouldn't the same be done for coffee? Or alchohol for that matter? Or drugs [specifically those that are not habit forming]?

I just wish the Church would go back to stressing responsible moderation. I missed that by 80 or so years. If a member feels 'worthy' of a temple recommend you should be able to obtain one. If they are lying.. well.. they'll face judgement.

I am sure that those who were in one area long enough could do that - where it was cold enough for them to obtain ice, but most of the early members were on the move. Many would prepare a field, plant it - but then move on and some one else would harvest it. Same with meat. Yes, they salted it when they had the salt to spare,and extra meat. But they only killed what they could eat and not waste.

I hadn't considered that. Thank you. :) I was reading an article on the LDS website and it said that we don't really know why the Word of Wisdom says to eat meat sparingly in times of winter/cold/famine.

Edited September 17, 2008 by bmy-

[candyprpl]

I think the most important thing for me in choosing to be baptized was that, I chose to give up drinking coffee. I loved coffee, but because of my faith and because of my willingness to take upon me the name of Jesus Christ giving it up became a no brainer. When we tackle the commandments that are the hardest for us to keep and choose to follow, those commandments become easy to obey. That's been my experience anyway. And the blessings that come from following the commandments are sooooo worth it!!!:)

[hordak]

I know being eligible for a temple recommend is personal -- and none of my business -- but can one really say they adhere to the word of wisdom when they eat meat almost every day of the week? If one can pick and choose meat away.. and have a blind eye turned.. shouldn't the same be done for coffee? Or alchohol for that matter? Or drugs [specifically those that are not habit forming]?

Great point

I hadn't considered that. Thank you. :) I was reading an article on the LDS website and it said that we don't really know why the Word of Wisdom says to eat meat sparingly in times of winter/cold/famine.

But people should still adhere to it. After all we don't know why tea is forbidden yet we are expected to follow that part.I think this is why God gave it as a greeting; not by commandment or constraint.

[TGS]

My Wife and I have 5 kids, 3 grandkids and have been married for 14 years.It has been rough and up and down.She has been a lifelong member of the church and married me as a non-member.For years, I didn't go to church and pushed behaviors I should have not.After some serious issues with a troubled son, a nasty sister that was very nasty to my wife.After several talks of separation and divorce, my wife and I stopped being intimated and I moved downstairs. It has been six months and I  got to church as a family and we have scripture study. After a long while, I started to take the discussions and felt ok that I wanted to be baptized. My wife has been leery of it and doubting, which she has every right to.Missionary pushed a dunk date and my wife asked me are you going to lie and say you won't drink coffee or have a drink? I said no I will not lie as I do not have a testament of coffee or an occasional cocktail.She said then you don't believe and its a mistake, go join another church that doesn't require those as I do not want that for my man.She just stopped drinking coffee daily 2 weeks ago and drinking 6 months ago.I want her to be happy, but it seems she just judges me more. Now she tells me that she has higher aspirations and that she wouldn't be intimate again with me until we went through the Temple.I am lonely ,sad and feel like there is no pleasing her and I refuse to lie to her, so now she feels I should just choose  a lane and go.I thought of moving out but I only plan to do that if we are divorced at that point I want a complete split.House sold, she gets a job and then leaves me alone, but I know that will never work for her.I hate my happiness is so intertwined with hers, as is my misery.She isn't affected by my feelings and I do not trust she has my best interests.I love her but feel, I am with someone who will never love me.She said I have potential.

[zil]

Welcome, @TGS!  I don't feel qualified to give you advice except that I think you and your wife should seek professional counseling that will help you work together to resolve your differences and bring each other closer to Christ - that is the way to improve things - through Christ.  (Honestly, it sounds to me like Satan is doing a good job of keeping you two at odds over things you don't need to be at odds over - she wants to improve, you have gained at least a partial testimony of the Gospel, and yet you're working against each other.  Come together and work against Satan instead - you'll both be happier.)

[person0]

8 hours ago, TGS said:

she wouldn't be intimate again with me until we went through the Temple.

Although I have no qualifications, here is my advice based on what I interpret from what you wrote:

1)  Stop drinking alcohol and coffee.  Even if you don't do it because you believe God has commanded it (as we do), do it because you love your wife and you want your marriage to become a rock solid powerhouse amazing relationship!

2)  This one is on your wife - withholding sex in a marital relationship is manipulative and childish.  It is one thing if a spouse suffers from low libido, but an entirely different thing if they are withholding intentionally.  Your wife might think she is trying to motivate you, but this type of action will end up hurting both of you.  As long as you are legally married, there is no reason to have to wait to go to the temple before being physically intimate with one another.

3)  Seek marital counseling.  There are even LDS therapists that leadership in the Church could help you to find if that would be preferable to either of you.

4)  Do not use anyone's advice (even a therapist) against each other.  Anything you throw at one another will push you further away.  Come together in humility, recognize that you both need to change, then change together and seek to truly become one.

5)  Love = Action   Christ said:  'If you love me keep my commandments'  Love one another by serving one another in the ways you each would want.

[JohnsonJones]

You might show her this stuff you wrote...or not.

This would be my concern, and perhaps the concern of her church leaders in this instance. If she does NOT want to be an eternal marriage with you BEFORE going to the temple, what is going to change?  That last thing they want is to have someone getting sealed in the temple for all eternity just to turn around and decide they want to try to get that cancelled and get a divorce. 

Whether you go to the temple or not, it sounds as if both sides need to work on their marriage PRIOR to any decisions about going to the temple...and then...if they are united in mind and thought once again, THEN start thinking about going to the temple.

[Traveler]

20 hours ago, TGS said:

My Wife and I have 5 kids, 3 grandkids and have been married for 14 years.It has been rough and up and down.She has been a lifelong member of the church and married me as a non-member.For years, I didn't go to church and pushed behaviors I should have not.After some serious issues with a troubled son, a nasty sister that was very nasty to my wife.After several talks of separation and divorce, my wife and I stopped being intimated and I moved downstairs. It has been six months and I  got to church as a family and we have scripture study. After a long while, I started to take the discussions and felt ok that I wanted to be baptized. My wife has been leery of it and doubting, which she has every right to.Missionary pushed a dunk date and my wife asked me are you going to lie and say you won't drink coffee or have a drink? I said no I will not lie as I do not have a testament of coffee or an occasional cocktail.She said then you don't believe and its a mistake, go join another church that doesn't require those as I do not want that for my man.She just stopped drinking coffee daily 2 weeks ago and drinking 6 months ago.I want her to be happy, but it seems she just judges me more. Now she tells me that she has higher aspirations and that she wouldn't be intimate again with me until we went through the Temple.I am lonely ,sad and feel like there is no pleasing her and I refuse to lie to her, so now she feels I should just choose  a lane and go.I thought of moving out but I only plan to do that if we are divorced at that point I want a complete split.House sold, she gets a job and then leaves me alone, but I know that will never work for her.I hate my happiness is so intertwined with hers, as is my misery.She isn't affected by my feelings and I do not trust she has my best interests.I love her but feel, I am with someone who will never love me.She said I have potential.

 

I will tell you two stories, both of which I have told on this forum.

Story #1.  When I was 17 I joined the army under a special program that would allow me to serve a mission when I turned 19.  When I left home for the service I requested a blessing from my father.  In my blessing I was promised that if I was obedient to the Word of Wisdom (no coffee, tea, tobacco or alcohol) that I would be blessed and protected from injury.  I was put to the test several times – one time when there was nothing else to drink but ice tea and we were suffering from intense heat.  I turned down the ice tea.  Others knew that I was Mormon and thought I was foolish – but then a miracle occurred and I was able to get fresh water.  A couple of my comrades were converted to the LDS church.   There are blessing beyond what you think possible for living true to your covenants with G-d.  If you do not live true to the Word of Wisdom – you will lose blessings.

Story #2.  40 years ago, I met a really good guy – he and his wife were new converts to the LDS church.  But my friend just could not live the Word of Wisdom (among other things).  He was good and kind to everyone.  He became a life time friend of mine.  But he would not take his wife to the temple.  He just did not think living all the commandments was for him.  As time went by he was unfaithful to his wife while traveling for business.  He did not think it was such a big deal and was sorry and promised he would never do such a thing again.  But his wife had had enough and divorced him.  Some years later she married a wonderful man that took her to the temple.  This new husband was a really good guy and the children of my friend decided that they wanted to be sealed to their mother and new father.

A few years back my friend decided to repent and come back to the church – when we would visit I would encourage him to go to the temple – he would say it was too late for him.  A few week back I went to his funeral.  I was talking to his wonderful daughter that still loved him and she told me that my friend had finely made it to the temple not much before he died.  Talking with his children they had forgiven him – but even though he had repented he had lost the blessings of his wonderful wife and children in eternity – they were all sealed to another.  I am sure he will be blessed and forgiven but the price of putting off his repentance is great.

 

My recommendation is that you repent – if you are not converted to the Word of Wisdom – pray with all your heart to know the truth – and whatever truth you are given – be true to it.

 

The Traveler

[Sunday21]

On 2008-09-09 at 11:32 PM, semodex said:

There are some great fake coffees out there...Roma is one and I just got a new one from Amazon called Oskri. They are made with barley and can be used to ease away from real coffee. I was a huge coffee drinker before I was baptized and the fake coffee really eased my desire to drink something warm in the morning.

It is wonderful that you are ready to make the change!!

Thanks! Ordering these!

[Grunt]

5 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Thanks! Ordering these!

Teeccino is good.  I like Pero because it's easy.  I've also been trying a lot of herbal teas lately.  My favorites are probably Rooibos and Yaupon.  Yaupon is native to the US but isn't as popular.  It can be harder to find.  It contains a little bit of caffeine so is a good morning tea.  It's similar to Yerba Mate, only you can get is dark or green.

[mrmarklin]

On 9/9/2008 at 6:17 PM, NightShift said:

I have been addicted to.

Cigarettes, Cigarillos, pipe, chewing tobacco, snuff, And now I take snus (a swedish tobacco you put under your lips).

I can live without nicotine and alcohol, but I will have a hard time giving up coffee, I drink around 12 cups a day.

Do you HAVE to stop drinking coffee or is that a choice? You wont go to Hell if you do, right?

Caffeine is the addictive part of coffee. Switch to a cola product, or go Mountain Dew.

[NightSG]

6 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

Caffeine is the addictive part of coffee. Switch to a cola product, or go Mountain Dew.

Buying pure crystalline caffeine and smoking it in a crack pipe is probably a bit much.

[NightSG]

On 4/23/2018 at 9:35 AM, person0 said:

1)  Stop drinking alcohol and coffee.  Even if you don't do it because you believe God has commanded it (as we do), do it because you love your wife and you want your marriage to become a rock solid powerhouse amazing relationship!

2)  This one is on your wife - withholding sex in a marital relationship is manipulative and childish.

So reward the childish manipulation by giving up something you don't truly believe you are commanded to.  Letting your spouse dictate your beliefs through such a demented system is a great way to make a solid relationship.

[person0]

2 hours ago, NightSG said:

So reward the childish manipulation by giving up something you don't truly believe you are commanded to.  Letting your spouse dictate your beliefs through such a demented system is a great way to make a solid relationship.

I don't eat food containing pork when I am around my father, out of respect for him and his beliefs.  It has nothing to do with my personal beliefs.

[NightSG]

1 hour ago, person0 said:

I don't eat food containing pork when I am around my father, out of respect for him and his beliefs.  It has nothing to do with my personal beliefs.

So you do eat pork behind his back?  Why aren't you trying to have a solid relationship with your father?

[person0]

10 hours ago, NightSG said:

So you do eat pork behind his back?  Why aren't you trying to have a solid relationship with your father?

He knows I eat pork, and he knows why I don't eat it around him.  Truthful communication seems pretty solid to me.

[Grunt]

I would give up almost anything if it pleased my wife.  When I was investigating the church, she gave up coffee before I did.  She did it to remove coffee from the house to make it easier for me because she loves me.  I didn't even consider her doing so.  

Marriage is a partnership.  You support each other.  I would lay down my life for my family.  Dropping coffee is much easier than dying for her.

[Sunday21]

Hi @TGS Glad to have you here!

[Maureen]

On 28/04/2018 at 6:54 PM, mrmarklin said:

Caffeine is the addictive part of coffee. Switch to a cola product, or go Mountain Dew.

Both the cola product and Mountain Dew also contain caffeine and are bad for you. If you're going to tell people they need to give up certain beverages, then at least offer them a healthy replacement, not crap.

M.

[Grunt]

20 hours ago, Maureen said:

Both the cola product and Mountain Dew also contain caffeine and are bad for you. If you're going to tell people they need to give up certain beverages, then at least offer them a healthy replacement, not crap.

M.

For the record, "we" didn't tell anyone they could or couldn't drink anything.

[Maureen]

2 hours ago, Grunt said:

For the record, "we" didn't tell anyone they could or couldn't drink anything.

As you can see my comment was in response to @mrmarklin's advice to switch to soda; which is terrible advice.

M.

[Just_A_Guy]

On 4/30/2018 at 6:34 AM, Grunt said:

I would give up almost anything if it pleased my wife.  When I was investigating the church, she gave up coffee before I did.  She did it to remove coffee from the house to make it easier for me because she loves me.  I didn't even consider her doing so.  

Marriage is a partnership.  You support each other.  I would lay down my life for my family.  Dropping coffee is much easier than dying for her.

That is a fair point, and I sure wouldn’t want to drive wedges between a couple.  That said, . . . I don’t think @TGS‘s wife is applying Mormonism to her marriage in the way Mormonism was meant to be applied.

TGS, by all means experiment with obeying the Word of Wisdom and see what happens spiritually.  I think you’ll like it.  But at the same time:  as you consider Mormonism I hope you’ll be able to draw a distinction between what it actually teaches, versus some of the counterproductive ways your wife may be trying to use specific Mormon teachings to change the dynamic of your marriage.  Mormonism is about gentle persuasion and meekness and love unfeigned; not about power plays designed to break an adversary’s will.