Mentally Handicapped People

[Hemidakota]

Does one obscure quotation of personal opinion from a Church leader make it the doctrine of the Church? No. President Lee never said that that particular opinion came by revelation, and it was certainly not an item of instruction to the whole Church.

If it was said during a General Conference, then how do you list it?

Elder Harold B. Lee

There is no truth more plainly taught in the Gospel than that our condition in the next world will depend upon the kind of lives we live here. "All that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:28-29) Is it not just as reasonable to suppose that the conditions in which we now live have been determined by the kind of lives we lived in the pre-existent world of spirits? That the apostles understood this principle is indicated by their question to the Master when the man who was blind from his birth was healed of his blindness. "Master, who did sin, this man or his parents that he was born blind?" (John 9:2) Now perhaps you will have a partial answer to some of your questions as to why, if God is a just Father, that some of his children are born of an enlightened race and in a time when the Gospel is upon the earth, while others are born of a heathen parentage in a benighted, backward country. . . .

The privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valiant, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations. Between the extremes of the "noble and the great" spirits, whom God would make his rulers, and the disobedient and the rebellious who were cast out with Satan, there were obviously many spirits with varying degrees of faithfulness. May we not assume from these teachings that the progress and development we made as spirits have

[countrygirl66]

WE DO KNOW WHY..the Prophet Sear and Revelator Harold B Lee had this to say on the subject...

"This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valient, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations...." (Decisions for Successful Living pp 164-65) TLDP:497

Therefore handicapped people were not valient enough in the preexistence.

Ok I'm not a schollar at all. When I read this to me it said that getting a mortal body was so pricless that even if you weren't valiant you would take any body available. To me that in no way means that someone handicapped wasn't valiant. To me he was trying to highlight the pricless experience of having a human body, not explaining why some have handicaps.

My daughter is slow. I pray for her every day when she comes home with bruises from school or gets bullied or pushed down. My heart breaks at all the trial she has had and still has to bear. I invervene the best I can but I am not there all the time. Every time I pray for her I get the same answer. (All is well) I think she was valiant.

Her birth mom (makes my life and me crazy) has the mental ability of a 12 yr old. She is about 34 (I think). But I have felt many time the love the Lord has for her. I do not feel that she will be judged for the choices she has made in this life. However, I do feel that all those who have taken advantage of her disability will be judged accordingly.

I have a brother who has a lot of scar tissue on his brain. He is the happies guy on earth and only remembers good things. He is married and has two kids. He is disabled (I think from being shaken not sure) but I think he was valiant and heavenly father knew he had the kind of spirit to take it in stride and be happy.

I think some have disabilities just because they do. No real answer. But I think we are given the opportunity to learn from them and be blessed by them in our lives. My daughter gets so upset if my h gets after her that she can really make you think about what upsets you and wether it is justified. :)

[abqfriend]

In a sense, we are all mentally handicapped or mentally challenged.

We are all created by a loving Creator. Things happen in life and in our development stage as a fetus. Most issues regarding mentally challenged have to do with genetic differences while others happen due to low oxygen to the brain at time of birth or due to accident.

I do not blame God for things that happen to a person through no fault of their own.

I do not believe in Pre-existence-so that is not an issie for me.

God is Love!

The book that has helped me regarding issies of life and death and suffering and why some people are different than others is written by a Jewish Rabbi. Harold Kushner in his Classic "Why bad things happen to good people" provides some insight.

On the other side of life-why do people get Altzheimers and other mind robbing ailments?

For most- people-things happen due to disease or the natural ebb and flow of life to death.

Evil does exist and evil can cause some problems like war and the incineration of millions of Jews.

Natural events happen too and God does let these happen-but I do not see God as the cause.

My husband, who is a nurse has terminal pancreatic cancer. I nor he blames God for this disease that will soon end his life. We do wonder why?-but we do not blame God as the cause.

God is all loving all kind and all merciful.

-Carol

Why are some people on this earth mentally handicapped? I was in a gas station last night. A van pulled up and let some mentally handicapped people out to get drinks.

Are these people this way because they were so righteous in the pre-life that Father made them this way so they would not have to experience all the horrors and sadness of this life? Are some of them made that way because they were great warriors during the war in the pre-life and received wounds so bad that they carried over to this life?

[Traveler]

I have often wondered how to tell who is challenged mentally. We sometimes call them slow minded – some call them retarded. But we try to understand and make allowances. Perhaps Hitler, Jeffery Dormer, Charlemagne and others we identify in history as some kind of monster are not really as they appear but their actions were because of some handicap, short coming or lacking ability.

I have wondered if what we often call evil is just a missing trait or ability. To be honest, I do not know that I am smart enough to know the answer. What I have learned is to become less concerned with the errors and problems with others and more concerned with improving my capabilities and making sure I do what I should – especially because I can control me. Thus if I can understand and deal with someone else’s behavior and what they say and do then it is fine. I deal with it in a kind and loving manner. If I cannot understand and deal with someone else’s behavior and what they say and do then I remove myself from those that I cannot seem to deal with.

I try not hate them or get angry with them – I let someone else deal with them. Perhaps someday when I have learned, I can do a better job. And just as a side note I have worked and helped with many institutionalized slow minded individuals that I find I can deal with much better than many of the individuals we call sane that are loose in society.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

I assisted mentally challenged adults during most of my graduate school. There were differing personalities, the usual range of emotions, just some limitations, and usually, a slower pace. Why God has folk here with limited iq...the Fall brought many difficulties to the human experience, by disrupting nature.

[a-train]

And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. (John 9:1-3)

-a-train

[JS_FAN]

.....Yes! I do believe the same as President Lee with the lesser spirits, which were many in my opinion, that were given bodies but handicapped to location of birth, culture, and parents....

The prohpet said "This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valient, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations

There is no way you can get "handicapped to location of birth" out of that

see the words in bold, unfaithful = penalty = physical limitations.

Edited November 25, 2008 by JS_FAN

[FlaviusHambonius]

The prohpet said "This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valient, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations

There is no way you can get "handicapped to location of birth" out of that

see the words in bold, unfaithful = penalty = physical limitations.

What year were these quotes given in conference?

Given the fact that Harold B. Lee served as President of the church from 1973-1974 and passing away in 1974 if memory serves me.

Your taking his his quote "under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations"...... is somewhat akin to the speculations and opinions of some of the bretheren such as Bruce R. McConkie who had his own opinions about the blacks and the priestood issues which he later threw out the window with the houndog in 1978, while he was an apostle, seer and revelator.

I suspect if Harold B. Lee would have lived a few more years he would have also thrown this out the window as being his speculation and his opinions----but that is just my opinion.

If you insist on saying that this is doctrine because he said it in conference, your free to do so. As for me I believe the bretheren speak with the power of the spirit and we are to heed and confirm with our spirit---but until it is cannonized it is not doctrine, at least to me.

You have to remember that this is a living church--not a dead one. These thought's of not being valiant enough, or being cursed with a certain skin color in a certain part of the world is all hogwash to me. I thought we as a church had gotten past these ideas, but apparently I'm wrong.

Do you think that Thomas S. Monson would have the same opinion or view or inspiration as Harold B. Lee on this matter? I don't think so, as it appears James Faust has a slightly different take on the matter----Just my opinion-----ya gotta love those opinions.

[bmy-]

WE DO KNOW WHY..the Prophet Sear and Revelator Harold B Lee had this to say on the subject...

"This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valient, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations...." (Decisions for Successful Living pp 164-65) TLDP:497

Therefore handicapped people were not valient enough in the preexistence.

And I'll say he was wrong.

[mnn727]

Why are some people on this earth mentally handicapped?

Because stuff happens. I don't believe God runs every aspect of our lives. Genetic and even environmental issues happen.

Its part of the freedom we are given.

[Hemidakota]

The prohpet said "This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valient, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations

There is no way you can get "handicapped to location of birth" out of that

see the words in bold, unfaithful = penalty = physical limitations.

I see there is reading comprehension issues here. Go back and reread the post. If that is still a problem, ask the Godhead yourself for the truth.

[Shera]

I think people born with handicaps are born with them for more than one reason. I have a brother who was born with cerebral palsy. In his patriarchial blessing it talks about how he was one of God's noblest sons and that he was given this particular body to protect him from the destroyer. It also talks about how he has these disabilities to help his family to learn patience and reach their full potential . So I think that Heavenly Father kills 2 birds with 1 stone. He protects many of his noble and valiant children, (I don't think all the most valiant are protected that way though, I wouldn't doubt one bit that Joseph Smith was one of the most valiant sons in Heaven, but he has born with what he needed to accomplish him mission on earth.) I believe that those with disablities are capable of even more sometimes than those of us with no physical or mental handicaps. They have a special spirit in them that emits to those around. They can teach us love and kindness like nothing else on earth. I love my brother so much, almost more than I love some of my other siblings (and I love them TONS!) And it is soley because of the fact that I serve him more, and I truly believe that the more you serve someone, the more you love them, it just happens. I think that is the reason many of them are here, to teach others of us how to serve. So I am grateful for the compassion that I have learned and the patience I have been able to see with him in my life.

[Hemidakota]

Meeting these people bring us a sense of saintliness when in their presence and knowing they were valiant spirits. Thanks for sharing it.

[hordak]

.

Off subject but

My arch nemesis She-ra. When did you find your avatar?

[tefor]

When our precious daughter was born 12 1/2 years ago, she had a really difficult time--respiratory problems, "lazy eye", needing tubes in her ears, difficulty sitting up/standing/walking (needing a specially made high chair, a body suit, orthotic shoes, etc.) For the first three or four years of her life, she was very much an infant. This beautiful daughter of Daddy in Heaven taught my wife and I the meaning of Christ's pure love: to love and serve somebody who can never repay the favor. Sweet Jaclyn (since diagnosed as autistic) is walking all over the place and is the happiest girl imaginable. She has a sweetness about her that I can only envy--and she is truly an heir of the celestial kingdom. Hers is an inner beauty that radiates to the outside, blessing all around her.

Even when she is an adult, she will always be our little girl and will need our care. But we also know that she was God's long before she was ours--and that she will always have a place safe in His loving arms.

[Shera]

Yikes, I'm getting a little worried now. hehe. I grew up watching Shera, and loved her! She is AWESOME! I even got to see her and her horse in the mall once! I will never forget that day! lol.

[pam]

Okay since this is a thread about mentally handicapped..I'm starting to think that people who say they see animated characters in the mall might actually belong on this thread. hahahahahaha Just teasing now.

Right up there with people who claim to have seen Elvis in the mall. lol

Edited November 26, 2008 by pam

[Hemidakota]

Tefor, what a blessing it is to have such a wonderful pure spirit in your home.

[countrygirl66]

My daughter who is 9 has fetal alcahol effects. (life can be a challenge) I will say that she is the most optomistic spirit I have ever ever encountered.

ex - My neighbor is basically a bully. He will get angry with her and yell. Her response, "wow he must be having a really bad day, maybe tomorrow he will have a better day". She has softened him at times in a way that I know no other human on earth could.

Yesterday she had some kids making fun of her at school. She didn't really beleive that they were making fun of her. (my 12 yr old told me about it) I asked her about it, and she said "Oh I think they were just playing around, they wouldn't make fun of me".

She has taught our family more about the pure love of christ than anything else we have encountered. She just sees the best in people and beleives their intentions are always good. She has her challenges, but this is her talant and where her spirit shines.

She also knows everyone in our ward kids, adults, missionaries, because she automatically reaches out to them. Something I could learn from. A new family moved in to our ward and the mom called me. Madison had been over to introduce herself and invite their kids to play. The mom said it felt wonderful to be so welcomed to her new neighborhood. (we have our safety issues, but that is who she is) :)

[hordak]

WE DO KNOW WHY..the Prophet Sear and Revelator Harold B Lee had this to say on the subject...

"This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valient, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations...." (Decisions for Successful Living pp 164-65) TLDP:497

Therefore handicapped people were not valient enough in the preexistence.

This makes sense if Heavenly father wants all his children to return and we are judged according to our knowledge though i wouldn't think it a penalty.

Just the other day i had some cookies( Reward) that i wanted to give to my kids.But i don't just give my kids treats i have them earn them(Earthly probation).So i made them do chores(Covenants). Because my son is younger(less valiant) and less likely to earn the cookie(Reward) i gave him an easier task.(Handicap)

We look at handicap people with sorrow for the opportunities they will miss out on but if this is just a small step in the grand scheme then we are the ones with the disadvantage.

[geebee]

My 17 year old son has Dubowitz Syndrome which manifests in severe mental development and some physical disability. He is the happiest, most loving boy you could ever meet. I do not believe for one minute that he was not a valiant spirit because he loves going to church. I have had a personal revelation that it is where his spirit wants to be so how could he be a lesser spirit if this is so. He sings the hymns (in his own particular way) with real gusto and he gives a resounding AMEN at the end of every prayer. He is friends with every member of our ward and he has many friends outside of church because of his loving, happy personality. He sees only the good in people, he believes everybody is his friend and he has a hello and a smile for everybody he meets. Please don't insult my boy or the many other less able among us by telling us that they are unvaliant in spirit.

I personally feel that these spirits are among the most faithful and strong because they have accepted this challenge. I feel it a privilege to have my special son, to be a mother to one of these special spirits, to be given the opportunity to give this service to him and my Heavenly Father. He is my great blessing from the Lord and nobody can tell me he isn't valiant, not after all he has achieved.

[annewandering]

who is disabled? is it someone who is less smart or someone who is less kind?

someone who will never be a great scientist or someone who cant seem to understand the law of chastity?

maybe we need to relook at who is the one who is given the 'lesser' challenge here. is it a challenge for a valiant spirit to be given the chance to teach people service and love or is it more of a challenge have to learn to be faithful and honest for an unvaliant spirit?

nevertheless dont ever think the mentally challenged dont have their own spiritual challenges. they are just as much in need of proving their faith as anyone else.

i do believe that some people are put in situations that test other people. i know i am a constant test of patience for a lot of people. :) that does not preclude mentally disabled people from their own tests, which God will help them to pass, just as He helps us, all, with the things, in which we are spiritually disabled, to do successfully.

[AngelLynn]

WE DO KNOW WHY..the Prophet Sear and Revelator Harold B Lee had this to say on the subject...

"This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valient, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations...." (Decisions for Successful Living pp 164-65) TLDP:497

Therefore handicapped people were not valient enough in the preexistence.

My brother has Downs Syndrome. Now he can be the most stubborn and unwilling at times. But he is the sweetest and most loving of God's children.When he was given his blessing as babe by my father, it was given that he would be loved. And this is true. Everyone we have met that has been around him has shown lots of love and compassion towards him. He is truely a blessed child of our Father in Heaven.

I believe that God has all given us weakness and trials in this life to overcome. With the veil that comes to us at birth, our weakness and our imperfections shine though. This is a time we are to work on them and improve ourselves.

I do not believe that my brother was not valient. I think he was a very valient person to choose to come with a body that was malformed and with imperfections. He choose to come and to work on being the best he could be. As for me, I've learned that I am my brother's keeper.

Edited November 28, 2008 by AngelLynn

[Hemidakota]

I noticed today as I was driving up to the house, we have a handicapped person living in our neighborhood and need to make a visit. It is indeed a blessing to be in their presence and feel of that Spirit.

[AngelonaWing]

I tell folks (we don't know) after my son has talked to them and hugged them in a store.... and they smile a little bewildered look...... I tell them they have been touched by an angel!