"Mormon Brainwash - Finished Product" ??


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I found a video on youtube, someone has reposted one of the mormon.org videos on youtube.

Happens to be from the person who really "did it" for me and got me interested in the Church, because her testimonies really connect with how I feel.

This is what's in the video description;

This is the end product of a Mormon Church brainwash job. The Mormon Church is the perfect cult. If you are a member, you are devoted and very loving and caring, your literature and doctrine is strictly controlled, it's wrong to criticize the church, the church tells you how to think, how to behave, how to dress (This is no lie-I was once criticized for wearing a blue shirt instead of a white one), the church dictates EVERYTHING to you, any issues you have is because of YOU not the church (I was told this too), you are shamed and felt guilty if you do not except a calling, you are afraid NOT to pay your tithing, you are repeating the mantra every fast Sunday (I know the chruch is true and repeat), you sing indoctrinating songs as a kid ("Follow the prophet, follow the prophet, follow the prophet, he knows the way" and "I hope they call me on a mission", etc. etc.)

So after all the this brainwashing, you end up with a girl who says how you can tell the LDS church is true. It wasn't anything logical to ask her what she was thinking, she wasn't thinking, she was feeling. I can't believe the LDS church actually promotes this and people buy into it.

Do you notice how Mormons have to repeat, "I know it's true" over and over again. Fast and Testimony meetings is filled with the classic, "I know 'fill in the blank' is true." If something is repeated enough times, people believe it.

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Need it be said for starters that this person came to the Mormon church out of their own choice because they already had beliefs that she was shocked to find mormons believe?

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Also, can someone please justify some of the quotes I've seen in the comments? They've got me a little worried.

Brigham Young:

"...no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 289).

Brigham Young:

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 266). Also, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, page 269).

Thanks everyone. :)

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From FAIR:

Many traditional Christians envision Peter standing at the "pearly gates." They are uncomfortable with the misunderstanding that Brigham Young said Joseph Smith will take Peter's place. The thoughtful reader, however, will search the entire discourse delivered by Brigham Young and see that this is not what he was teaching.

Each dispensation has a prophet at its head. Moses taught in his dispensation that those who looked to the serpent on a pole would live. This was a type (Alma 33:19) or similitude of the Savior. Those who didn't obey Moses and would not look, didn't live. Accepting what Moses said in that dispensation was the "passport" to life.

As Christ said:

Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (John 5:45-47)

If they didn't believe in Moses, he wasn't their "passport."

Noah offered "salvation" to those who would join him in the ark. Those who were disobedient and failed to enter the ark were swept off the earth in the flood and ended up in spirit prison (1 Peter 3:20). Again, as the prophet of his dispensation, Noah provided the "passport" for those who accepted the word of God that came through him.

In the meridian of time, those who accepted the apostles and prophets and did not reject the message of Jesus Christ were saved. As the Lord said to the apostles, "He that receiveth you receiveth me" (Matt. 10:40).

While speaking about our own dispensation, Brigham Young said that people of this dispensation will not enter God's Kingdom without the "consent" and "certificate" of Joseph Smith as a passport to entering where God and Christ are. Brigham Young then explained what he meant: "It is his [Joseph's] mission to see that all the children of men in this last dispensation are saved, that can be, through the redemption" (Journal of Discourses, vol.7, p.289).

The "passport," then, that people will need to enter heaven is the same as they have always needed, no matter what dispensation they lived in. To accept Christ is to accept his prophets: without the priesthood authority and inspired teachings of the Lord that have come through Joseph Smith, no one in this dispensation, living or dead, can be redeemed.

Anti-Mormon critics distort this view, trying to make it appear that Joseph Smith will be standing by the gate of heaven admitting or rejecting those who seek to enter. This is not the picture that is painted by Brigham Young. He was merely stating that the mission of Joseph Smith, God's prophet, was "to see that all the children of men in the last dispensation are saved, that can be through the redemption."

It should be recognized that the Savior is a great delegator. He has delegated to the "head" of each dispensation certain responsibilities, including some preliminary judging responsibilities. For example, in New Testament times the Apostles were told that they will judge the twelve tribes of Israel (Matt 19:28). Literally, then, those of the Twelve Tribes won't "get to Heaven" without the consent of the Apostles.

Latter-day Saints do not believe Joseph Smith is the keeper of the gate of heaven, nor the one who determines whether we are saved. Some Christians think they will instead meet Peter at the "pearly gates," but The Book of Mormon teaches who will really be the final "gatekeeper":

O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name (2 Nephi 9:41).

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Hi Brenton,

The internet is full of lies and half truths and misunderstandings regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of LatterDay Saints. The thing that you should remember is that we don't ask you to believe what we are saying.......we ask you to pray to find the truth. A conversation.....a sincere, humble and contrite conversation with your Heavenly Father is the best way to find out if the church is indeed the Church of Jesus Christ. The adversary......that is Satan.....will try every trick, use every deception, tell any lie....in order to make you not have that feeling that you described in another thread. Remember how that felt and compare that to how the youtube video makes you feel.

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The best thing you can do is ask the LORD these questions and search for the answers in the JoD, the scriptures, and so forth. Look at the original documents yourself, you owe it to yourself to do so. I searched through every piece of anti-mormon literature and read the church history set and JoD. I tried to hear every argument and turn every stone. I made myself as worthy as I could in every way and actually looked for God to answer my prayers with a real divine communication. I got exactly that. All of my studies, all of my work, it all yielded a sure testimony. I really do know that Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith is a prophet, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's restored Church. You can get all the answers you want from F.A.R.M.S. and fair LDS and members and so forth. But none of that matters. The only thing that matters in the end is Moroni 10:4-5.

-a-train

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You can always find something wrong with any Church that includes Humans in it.

You can always take something small and blow it up into something large

You can always find things to take exception with.

In refuting:

I almost never wear a white shirt and no ones ever said anything to me. I would say at least 1/4 of the men in my ward don't wear white shirts, I know of no one who has said anything to any of them, if they did, it must not have worked.

The Church tells you what to think and what to believe -- about what? its teachings about Jesus Christ, yeah I suppose you could say that, about being a good example, serving others, being kind and generous, ok. About decisions in your outside life -- gee I must have missed that.

Feeling guilty about turning down callings? Both my wife and I have turned down callings and no one has ever made us feel guilty, we've also been blessed when we took callings we were not too sure about. I was called to teach a class to men in a Federal Prison located within the ward boundries. I was scared of that one at first, I told the Bishop I would let him know in a week and I prayed about it all week long, I accepted it because I believed the call was from God and it was the greatest calling I ever had. I really learned a lot and its still the most spiritual meetings I have ever been a part of and I grew in my own spiritually, the men there taught me a lot. Sadley after 2 years we moved out of the area.

Feeling guilty about not tithing? No one ever says anything to you, we don't pass a collection plate, so no one could possibly know if you do or do not. As a former ward clerk, who entered the tithing into the computer (record keeping for peoples taxes and for financial accountability) I can tell you the names and numbers went in my eyes and out my fingers and that was it. I couldn't tll you anything about it later that same day. If this person felt guilty it was their conscious talking to them.

Fast and testimony meeting "I know this Church is True" used to be a pet peeve of mine also, people fall into patterns and its easy to say. Ask someone what they mean when they say it before you condemn it. I'll let someone else go into it more.

Indoctrinating Youth; All Churches and schools do this, Parents teach their children what to believe, so do school teachers. Of course they are taught the tenets of our faith, so did the Protestant Church I grew up in, so did the Catholic Church my wife grew up in. SO does the school system, they teach you what they want you to know too. This is the lamest thing the person said.

Bytor has explained the BY quote so I won't even go into that, just to let you know, most people against the Church will take something out of context, ignoring whatever does not support their point of view. You'll run into that a lot, my recommendation is that you find the exact quote and then read the entire sermon it was from.

Anti's also liberally use ellipses ................ to denote missing words, one quote I read from the JoD that the Tanners 'quoted' used 1 set of ellipses to connect 2 things 7 pages apart to make it appear it was 1 sentance saying something the sermon never meant -- changed the intent of the sermon totally.

Edited by mnn727
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Thankyou all for your reassurance.

I actually tried to find the JoD online, but couldn't. Does anyone know where I can read it online?

Hi Brenton. I realise that people use youtube like wikipedia...fastest growing first-hand information source. What was your gut feeling?

I was disgusted at the the context the video has been uploaded to that persons account as.

Off-topic; but I must add that wikipedia is by far the best encyclopedia you can get, because its neutral. And I've never got less than a top mark when using it for sources and so forth. ;)

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Wikipedia is not neutral. Wikipedia is an open post what you would like. There is little that is verified.

Ben Raines

Uh, where'd you get that from it?

It is neutral, unless an article is marked as having "neutrality problems".

Basically, you verify an article is accurate, by looking at its sources.

If an article doesn't have any sources, then there is chance that its utter nonsense.

But by and large, Wikipedias articles are good.

I use it in just about every essay, or speech I need.

The arguement that it is useless "Free-for all posting" comes from the arguement that only scholar written encyclopedias should be trusted. To me that's utter nonsense, and my grades prove that. ;)

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Brenton,

I was reading that little blurb on the brainwashing thing and it literally almost made me laugh! What a sorry explanation of our practices.

Being a member of this church is soooo not about blind faith. Anyone who has really served in the trenches knows that everything about this religion is about agency. In fact when someone is given a calling, they are encouraged to take the assignment to the Lord and ask for personal confirmation to know if indeed this calling is the best thing for the person and their family. And it is correct sometimes to say no to a calling. I have done it before and felt absolutely right about it.

This church is, however, demanding. It is demanding in every way. We have high standards of dress and behavior in every facet of our lives. There is much freedom in living spiritually clean. And some of our standards are just that....guard rails against sinful practice. Others teach us discipline and stretch our faith and our ability to extend ourselves in selfless service. Every time I have committed and given my best efforts in an any duty asked of me, I have been greatly blessed! It is something that brings me to the point of tears as I realize just how much I have been blessed.

I hope you look at those explanations and see them for what they are ..... bunk! And then look deeper into why we do what we do and catch a more accurate vision.

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Uh, where'd you get that from it?

It is neutral, unless an article is marked as having "neutrality problems".

Basically, you verify an article is accurate, by looking at its sources.

If an article doesn't have any sources, then there is chance that its utter nonsense.

But by and large, Wikipedias articles are good.

I use it in just about every essay, or speech I need.

The arguement that it is useless "Free-for all posting" comes from the arguement that only scholar written encyclopedias should be trusted. To me that's utter nonsense, and my grades prove that. ;)

Here in the states, there are many professors and colleges that will not accept Wikipedia as a source for papers and essays. My daughter had a high school teacher that would not allow it to be used as well. Mainly for the fact that many things that are on wikipedia have been found to be inaccurate. You have to take Wikipedia with a grain of salt.

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Here in the states, there are many professors and colleges that will not accept Wikipedia as a source for papers and essays. My daughter had a high school teacher that would not allow it to be used as well. Mainly for the fact that many things that are on wikipedia have been found to be inaccurate. You have to take Wikipedia with a grain of salt.

It really does depend on the article.

Some really do cite sources very accurately.

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Since you have expessed interest in the Jouranal of Discourses (JoD) I thought it would be good to post what the JoD is and what it isn't, Highlighting is mine. Keep in mind the JoD is not considered a source of doctrine by anyone in the LDS Church. It is of interesting historical value, but thats about it.

The JoD is copyrighted and published by B.H.S. Publishing, NOT the LDS Church. For those who seem to be unaware of what the JoD actually is... here is an informative definition.

Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol.2, JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES

The Journal of Discourses was a sixteen-page semimonthly subscription publication privately printed in Liverpool, England, in 1854-1886. It served as the printed word of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, particularly for members who had no access to the Salt Lake City Deseret News. While the Journal most often published sermons of Church leaders, these speeches were not always considered to be official statements

of doctrine. Many different kinds of speeches were printed, including the prayer given at the laying of a cornerstone of the Salt Lake Temple, a report of a high council court decision, a funeral sermon, and a plea for the defendant and the charge to the jury in a murder trial. In all, the collected Journal of Discourses contains 1,438 speeches given by fifty-five people, including Presidents of the Church, members of the Quorum

of the Twelve Apostles, members of the seventy, and sixteen other speakers. Brigham Young gave 390; John Taylor, 162; Orson Pratt, 127; Heber C. Kimball, 113; and George Q. Cannon, 111. Twenty-one people gave a single speech, and the rest gave from 2 to 66 speeches. The semimonthly issues have been bound into twenty-six annual volumes and are currently available in a lithograph reprinting "of the original edition."

The origin of the Journal of Discourses is tied to George D. Watt, an English convert baptized in 1837 by Heber C. Kimball. Before immigrating to the United States in 1842, Watt learned Pitman shorthand. He used this new skill in his adopted land to record the proceedings of conferences of the Church. He also recorded the trial of the accused murderers of the Prophet Joseph Smith.

After 1852 Watt transcribed Church conference addresses for the Deseret News. But because the News was not generally available outside central Utah and because Watt received little pay for his work, he proposed to publish privately and sell sixteen-page semiweekly issues of the Journal of Discourses containing selected sermons of the General Authorities. The sale of these to the Saints at large would enable Watt to earn a living with

his shorthand skill. He was supported in this proposal by Brigham Young, who authorized him to print his sermons. [ note...he did not CORRECT them... he just authorized Watt to print what had already been transcribed]

David W. Evans, also an English convert, an associate editor of the Deseret News, and the first violinist in the Salt Lake Theatre Orchestra, succeeded Watt as the main reporter to the Journal from 1867 to 1876. Another major reporter was George F. Gibbs, who was born in Wales and was the secretary to the First Presidency of the Church for fifty-six years. In all, twelve people reported sermons for the Journal of Discourses, including one of Brigham

Young's daughters, "Miss Julia Young," who reported one of his speeches.

While Mr Watt used shorthand it is know that some of the scribes used longhand which means that all they could do is take notes and try to reconstruct the sermon afterwards. Some of the printed sermons were a result of 2 or more people trying to reconstruct the sermons from notes taken during the sermons, remember this was all done in an era before recording devices.

Edited by mnn727
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In the year 1446 B.C. Moses led a couple of Million Children of Israel through the Sinai desert to the promise land. It was meant to only take a few months but actually ended up taking 40 years. I think that there were many in that day that thought that they were the perfect cult.

The man Moses then went up onto the Mountain and hung out for 40 days trying to figure out how to carve up stone tablets. All this so that he could institute a bunch of rules to keep the Children of Israel in bondage. These rules were very controlling. It made the people feel guilty if they fornicated, and didn't pay their tithing. They were made to feel guilty if they didn't offer sacrifice or if they lied, or even if they happened to kill someone.

Now Moses, the leader of this obvious cult would always bear his testimony to his followers, however, some could see right through Moses over zealous testimony bearing.

And the other nations noticed that the Children of Israel were a Peculiar people, something about when they were obedient, they were blessed while when they chose rebellion, they were cursed. Boy what a cult! Numbers 16 tells of Korah, Dathan, Abiram and 250 leaders that this man Moses wasn't the only way, and that they had the power to.

Sadly, in the days before the word of Wisdom, all these guys began smoking.

Bottom line, we are called to be a peculiar people. One of the saying of the old testament is "if we obey, we will be God's people, and he will be our God. To the outside world were all you have to do is say a magical little prayer and you will be saved for life this might seem like a cult, however, this practice of following the guideline of the prophets have been going on for thousands of years. Why change now?

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I'll address these -- someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Brigham Young:

"...no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 289).

The great last judgment of mankind is done on the basis of the Patriarchal Order. The Patriarchal Order is the priesthood order of government, organizing and dividing all mankind, into a large hierarchy. Think of it as a military rank structure, running from the President to the lowly private, except this one deals with priesthood authority to preside over others. All of the kingdoms of glory, the Church on earth, everything, is governed under this structure.

The actual judgment will take place in the same way [we hope ;) ]. Christ actually admits one to the Celestial Kingdom, as the final arbiter and gate-keeper, but the people of the Patriarchal Order determine worthiness to be presented to him for this final test. Joseph Smith being the one who will report on us as he's the head of this dispensation.

I hope that helps!

Brigham Young:

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 266). Also, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, page 269).

As far as i'm aware polygamy is what we can call a 'Celestial law'. We believe in being subject to kings and the like -- that's one of the main reason we no longer live that law.

Essential to exaltation? Yes. But it's not for us to practice just yet [for the time being]. It's only mandatory when commanded. I hope that makes sense.

Edited by bmy-
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I wish you luck in your search...I pray that you will find what you are looking for. We seem to have things thrown at us from all different angles out there in the world, but I KNOW I find no better peace of heart and peace of mind than when I am doing what I am taught to do. WHen I say that, I mean from the scriptures. Obedience is our key to freedom. When I decide to wander from that, I end up in a heep of you-know-what! So I try to stay on the path as best as I can.

The church (as with ANY organization of people) will always have someone in it that doesn't know when to keep their mouths shut. That is just the way it is, I'm afraid. So many strong members have let this be there downfall...they go apostate because someone said something offensive to them. This is when Satan sticks his nose into it and finds and opening to discourage us. We have to remember that the people are not the gospel. The Gospel is perfect like its creator. We are the imperfect, seeking to improve ourselves by partaking of it and practicing it's teachings.

I know it has been said before, but go with your gut. Does it leave you feeling uneasy? Then what you are learning is wrong....or does it bring peace? Isn't it wonderful that we are entitled to personal revelation? If not, we all would be brainwashed followers. I think there lies the misconception. Brainwashing if for those that can't think for themselves. We guide our children in the ways of the Lord (as every faith out there), and we continue to pray for them after they start making decisions for themselves.

There will come a time when everyone will have to determine if they have a testimony or not of the truthfulness of the gospel and the organization of the church (those that are born into it...is what I'm referring to). I was born into the gospel and when I was 13 was when it hit me like a ton of bricks that I was where I was suppose to be. How do you describe a testimony? I don't know....I just know that YOU will know when you need to know. Keep searching diligently with an open heart and mind....you will just know when you are suppose to know and how you are suppose to know. Sometimes your answers come in ways you weren't expecting.

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Do you notice how Mormons have to repeat, "I know it's true" over and over again.

Yes. I sure do. Maybe the Mormons are on to something. ;)

I mean, why waste your time lying? If I'm going to say "I know it's true," it will be an intent of sharing my testimony...and not to brainwash someone.

Think about it. If you came across something you knew with every fiber of your being to be true, would you be silent and keep it to yourself? Or share it with your fellow man?

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what are we supposed to say other than I know something is true - are we supposed to lie? Also you seem to have a very Americanised view of the church, in a small branch believe me a priesthood holder, is a priesthood holder my husband was very miffed to discover he was expected to bless sacrament etc even if he was wearing a coloured shirt and had long hair and a beard lol

As well as the basic doctrine of the church there is also a cultural element that varies from State to State, Country to Country we are taught the same doctrine but are encouraged to bring the good from our previous background to enrich understanding. What remains the same is usually a friendly face, familiar buildings, pictures on the wall, and lessons

-Charley

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