The Trinity Questions – For Traditional Christians

[AnthonyB]

LDS often post questions that make me think they don’t fully understand what non-LDS believe. I have written some questions that I would like non-LDS Christians to respond to and hopefully if we get enough responses, LDS will have a better understanding of what we believe.

1) Are the persons of the Trinity capable of expressing emotion to each other? (ie can they love each other)

2) Are they capable of communicating with each other?

3) Can they be in differing spatial locations? (ie differing places, the Father was not crucified with the Son)

4) Will Jesus maintain his resurrected body in heaven?

5) Is holding to the historic creeds…

a. essential for salvation

b. good for spiritual health but not an absolute requirement

c. not important

d. other…Please specify

My answers.

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) Yes

4) Yes

5) Probably b

Edited October 6, 2008 by AnthonyB

[BenRaines]

So I understand. Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father were crucified? Was the Holy Ghost too? Can be in different places but are the same God?

Ben Raines

[AnthonyB]

Ben,

Mis-post on my part, have amended so explanation bit fails in line with the answer of the question. Being in differing places means that the Father was not crucified with the Son.

[Misshalfway]

Do "traditional Christians" as you put it, believe that we are created in the image of God?

If so, then how is that possible when the trinity is nothing like us? (that is how it appears to me at least)

If Jesus will retain his perfected resurrected body, then doesn't this fundamentally change the nature of the trinity? And doesn't that mean that at one time he did not have one? How can they be one person ever again after a resurrection? And then does the Father have a body too? Does the holy ghost have a body too? Why would the Lord come to get a body if being a spirit was superior? What is the purpose in doing so...if he/it is already everything he needs to be and has been that way thru the eternities?

Why did God the Father call Jesus his son if he in reality was not his son at all, but a part of him or expression of him?

If you were to see the trinity in person, what would it look like?

And isn't part of the description of the trinity that they have no parts or passions? Why the questions about emotions? And how can they have no parts....but be resurrected?

Did Moses believe in the trinity? Did Adam? Did they teach the trinity in the 10 commandments or in the Law of moses? Did Jesus teach the trinity? If so where?

When Jesus came to earth, why did he pray to the Father? Why did he ask the Father to bless the people? Why did he defer to the Father and say so many times that he only did the will of the father? Why was he allowed to be tempted? Why did he ask why the Father had forsaken him? I ask all of these and wonder why he would talk to himself in such a manner as a servant or as someone who deferred to someone of higher authority.

What is the purpose of the creation of man from the perspective of the trinity? Why was there a need for a sacrifice? Why are we invited to become like something that is impossible to become?

Yes....I have many questions. But I figured it was ok to ask since the OP seems to want LDS people to understand. So....there are my questions....the things that confuse me. Maybe you can help me understand.

[AnthonyB]

Miss Halfway,

Thanks you your posts, there are answers to your questions? (You most probably won't like them all) I was however to attempting to ascertain how many social trinitarians there are amongst traditional christians, and the questions are aimed to discover that.

Your questions deserve a good answer, do you mind if I answer them on a new thread?

[Misshalfway]

I am sorry if I misunderstood the purpose of your post. You bet. I would love to understand. Frankly, there isn't any other doctrine from mainstream Christianity that confuses me more than the Trinity.

And don't worry if I like the answers or not. :) I am ONLY seeking to understand. I will be looking for the new thread.

[prisonchaplain]

Do "traditional Christians" as you put it, believe that we are created in the image of God?

Not in the LDS sense--not physically. Since we believe God is Spirit, then we do not "look like" God. However, yes, God's Spirit is within us, we are made to carry his love, his mercy, his righteousness, etc. To be made in the image of God is different from being his literal children.

If Jesus will retain his perfected resurrected body, then doesn't this fundamentally change the nature of the trinity?

Why? God is still omni-present, omnipotent and omniscient. Jesus remains "one with the Father." The three are still one. That Jesus retains his body does perhaps forever draw us closer to our Creator, and perhaps that is a part of the Father's plan of salvation?

And doesn't that mean that at one time he did not have one? How can they be one person ever again after a resurrection?

They have always been distinct persons, but one God. That Jesus retains his body does not change that.

And then does the Father have a body too? Does the holy ghost have a body too?

No. In fact, Jesus said it was good that he leave, so the Holy Ghost could come, and presumably minister to all of us at once.

Why would the Lord come to get a body if being a spirit was superior? What is the purpose in doing so...if he/it is already everything he needs to be and has been that way thru the eternities?

To fulfill the atonement. Recall that Philippians says Jesus gave up his equality with God and made himself a little lower than the angels. His incarnation was an abasement he willingly accepted for our sakes.

Why did God the Father call Jesus his son if he in reality was not his son at all, but a part of him or expression of him?

We believe that Jesus is God the Son, not a part of the Father...but one with him.

If you were to see the trinity in person, what would it look like?

Isaiah 6 gives a good picture...we'd fall to our knees, or lie prostrate, and beg God not to kill us, due to our unholiness.

And isn't part of the description of the trinity that they have no parts or passions? Why the questions about emotions? And how can they have no parts....but be resurrected?

God is one. Jesus is God the Son, now incarnate. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three persons, one God. How that nature works exactly is indeed a divine mystery...but we know that the three persons are God, and that there is only one God.

Did Moses believe in the trinity? Did Adam? Did they teach the trinity in the 10 commandments or in the Law of moses? Did Jesus teach the trinity? If so where?

Neither the Trinity, nor that God had a Son. Does that mean Jesus is not God the Father's only begotten Son?

When Jesus came to earth, why did he pray to the Father? Why did he ask the Father to bless the people? Why did he defer to the Father and say so many times that he only did the will of the father? Why was he allowed to be tempted? Why did he ask why the Father had forsaken him? I ask all of these and wonder why he would talk to himself in such a manner as a servant or as someone who deferred to someone of higher authority.

Jesus deferred to his Father, as a dutiful Son is commanded to do. However, his deference is no indication that he is of a lesser species than the Father. Again, Philippians 2 informs us that Jesus DID NOT consider it robbery to be equal with God, but gave it up to make himself a little lower than the angels, to become God in the flesh.

What is the purpose of the creation of man from the perspective of the trinity? Why was there a need for a sacrifice? Why are we invited to become like something that is impossible to become?

Not sure I understand the last question, but from the beginning, we were created to worship God, part of which included the offer of sacrifices.

Yes....I have many questions. But I figured it was ok to ask since the OP seems to want LDS people to understand. So....there are my questions....the things that confuse me. Maybe you can help me understand.

I jumped in--Andy can fill in any gaping holes I've left.

[Misshalfway]

Thank you PC. Frankly, I have more questions. Uh oh. :)

I think perhaps I need a definition of the trinity. Does everyone in traditional Christianity believe in the same definition?

It sounds to me like you are saying that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are indeed three different, individual entities, but that they are one God. Well, frankly that sounds closer to the definition of the Godhead. I was under the impression that the Trinity was that one god could split itself into three parts depending on the purpose of the mission.

What does God look like? If the son is a separate being than the father and he has a resurrected body, I am pretty sure I can guess he looks like you and me. But you say the Father doesn;t???

[Guest ceeboo]

Hi anthonyb ,:)

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Yes

5. E A whole new thread :lol::):)

God bless,

Carl

[abqfriend]

Me too! I am a Catholic and the doctrine is somewhat difficult to understand. The early church discussed such challenges and came to understand such a concept of God as Trinity. The word Trinity is not found in Sacred Scripture, but neither is the word Sacrament. The word Trinity attempts to explain one of the fundamental doctrines of the majority of Christians. Am I right-and you wrong?-who knows?-I sure don't. I do not make such a judgement on matters of faith. I guess we will all find out someday.

As a Catholic Christian-I am Trinitarian in my belief-but the doctrine can be difficiult to understand. We spend much time learning about it in our Church Sacred Scripture Study and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is the base of some of the ancient creeds of my Church.

My faith does not depend on a deep understanding of the Trinity. My faith is rooted in how I understand the teachings of my Church as related to Christ's death and resurrection and how I view such an event in my life-and the changes that have occured in my life as a result of that event.

Like you-I accept the teachings of my church as being true.

To do otherwise, I would not call myself a Catholic nor you a member of the LDS Church.

It is good to try to understand the teachings of other faith traditions-which is one reason why I am here-to be challenged, to grow in my own faith and to learn of the faith traditions of other wonderful Christians like yourself.

-Carol

I am sorry if I misunderstood the purpose of your post. You bet. I would love to understand. Frankly, there isn't any other doctrine from mainstream Christianity that confuses me more than the Trinity.

And don't worry if I like the answers or not. :) I am ONLY seeking to understand. I will be looking for the new thread.

[AnthonyB]

ceeboo,

Thanks for your response. (Yes question 5 is not part of the social trinitarian questions but a personal query, I come from a non creedal traditional, whilst I personally affirm the historic creeds as in line with what the NT teaches (if I felt the need to descibe God using Greek philosophical concepts), they are not the marker of a disciple of Jesus to me).

PC,

From your previous posts I would take it 1-4 would be yes for you?

Miss-halfway,

I wouldn't disagree with anything PC said. As for a definition the Nicene and Chalcedon creeds are the common definitions that is nearly universally accepted but it is as much about what you can't say about God then what you can.

God that splits into different roles is Modalism, it seems that a lot if LDS think that is traditional Christians believe.

As for what Father looks like, Revelation has some verbal descriptors but I would say indescribable, beyond our comprehension. We will struggle to say anything when in the presence of the Father or to remember anything but the absolute love, goodness, holiness present before us.

(If your wondering about the phrase "traditional christians", it is a way to distinguish Christians who follow the traditional Christian teachings and Bible and who largely recognize each other as fellow followers of Jesus as opposed to those, like the LDS, who have differing veiws on a range of topics. I could use Christians and Mormons but a number of LDS see themselves as Christians too, so I use LDS and traditional Christians.)

abqfriend,

Could you have a go at my questions, I would love to get some feedback from Catholic/Orthodox people?

Edited October 6, 2008 by AnthonyB

[bytor2112]

Athanasian Creed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

[Guest ceeboo]

ceeboo,

Thanks for your response. (Yes question 5 is not part of the social trinitarian questions but a personal query).

I wouldn't disagree with anything PC said. As for a definition the Nicene and Chalcedon creeds are the common definitions that is nearly universally accepted but it is as much about what you can't say about God then what you can.

Hello AnthonyB,

You are more than welcome for my response.:)

Question 5, Yes a personal query, a personal journey, and a personal bias ( I have one of those too ):lol:

I also would not disagree with anything PC said, ( but please don't tell him that, ):)

Peace,

Carl

[Guest ceeboo]

Athanasian Creed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

Well bytor,

Thanks for that usefull and right on topic post:D

Shall I post some of the JS or other Prophets teachings as well ( would that also be usefull for this thread??)

I kinds think that contribution was not what the OP had in mind.:)

BTW, I noticed you must have missed the first 5 of the 5 questions

God bless,

Carl

[bytor2112]

Well bytor,

Thanks for that usefull and right on topic post:D

Shall I post some of the JS or other Prophets teachings as well ( would that also be usefull for this thread??)

I kinds think that contribution was not what the OP had in mind.:)

BTW, I noticed you must have missed the first 5 of the 5 questions

God bless,

Carl

Um....... I thought it might be helpful to understand the trinity...no?? My answers were yes, yes, yes, yes and yes...we need to understand the nature of God in order to undertand the plan of salvation....so maybe E

Edited October 6, 2008 by bytor2112

[AnthonyB]

I'm flexible. Will add another questions to the list.

Bytor,

Athanasian creed has never been approved by an ecumenical council and was late indevelopment and only used in the west. (I'm prettry sure all LDS will answer yes to 1-4 and no historic creed for 5 and 6) I'm hoping for responses from traditional or non-LDs Christians.)

Here are the questions again....

1) Are the persons of the Trinity capable of expressing emotion to each other? (ie can they love each other)

2) Are they capable of communicating with each other?

3) Can they be in differing spatial locations? (ie differing places, the Father was not crucified with the Son)

4) Will Jesus maintain his resurrected body in heaven?

5) Is holding to the historic creeds…

a. essential for salvation

b. good for spiritual health but not an absolute requirement

c. not important

d. other…Please specify

6) If you hold to creeds which do you hold to....(Multiple answers allowed)

a) Jesus is Lord

b) Apostles

c) Nicene

d) Chalcedon

e) Athanasian

f) All of the above

Answer for me: Primarily 6 a.

Edited October 6, 2008 by AnthonyB

[prisonchaplain]

Thank you PC. Frankly, I have more questions. Uh oh. :)

I think perhaps I need a definition of the trinity. Does everyone in traditional Christianity believe in the same definition?

Trinity: The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Each is a distinct person, yet they are the one true and living God. Only Jesus has a body, so he's the only one we could look upon as being human-looking.

It sounds to me like you are saying that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are indeed three different, individual entities, but that they are one God. Well, frankly that sounds closer to the definition of the Godhead. I was under the impression that the Trinity was that one god could split itself into three parts depending on the purpose of the mission.

The main difference is that LDS teaching is essentially that there are three entirely separate god-beings in the Godhead. Trinitarians believe there are three persons, but only one God. God does not split himself, or appear in different forms. That teachings is called modalism, and is also considered a heresy, by Trinitarians.

[Misshalfway]

Modalism is considered heresy. Thank you. That was the missing piece.

How can three persons be the exact same God or the exact same being and not be modalism or the Godhead?

Is the Son the literal son of God the father? Or is that just a title?

For those of you who believe the word of God is only to be found in the bible, why are creeds such as the Nicean, used as the measuring stick for proper understanding of God? It seems to be a huge contradiction to me. (I say so with as much respect as I can.)

Do you all believe that we humans will all receive a resurrected body as part of salvation?

Edited October 6, 2008 by Misshalfway

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

May I be the first to propose that while we certainly disagree with most of Trinitarianism, that there is much more in common than we think?

The latter-day Saints believe in one God, or Godhead. Personally I think the words can be used interchangebly.

Father in Heaven is our God, Jesus Christ is our God, and (though it is not said as much) the Holy Spirit is our God. They are distinct in body, and personage, and yet they are one in unity and form the Godhead, and they are our God. (This is making sense to me, but then again it's quite late and when I get somewhat tired concepts that are for the most part complicated become quite simple to my mind (May I also point out that this post will most likely seem like babel to me in the morning))

[Maureen]

1) Are the persons of the Trinity capable of expressing emotion to each other? (ie can they love each other)

Yes

2) Are they capable of communicating with each other?

Yes

3) Can they be in differing spatial locations? (ie differing places, the Father was not crucified with the Son)

Yes, 2nd person (Jesus) left his glory and came to earth.

4) Will Jesus maintain his resurrected body in heaven?

Yes

5) Is holding to the historic creeds…

Anthony, I agree with you and say:

b. good for spiritual health but not an absolute requirement

M.

[prisonchaplain]

I'm flexible. Will add another questions to the list.

1) Are the persons of the Trinity capable of expressing emotion to each other? (ie can they love each other)

2) Are they capable of communicating with each other?

3) Can they be in differing spatial locations? (ie differing places, the Father was not crucified with the Son)[

4) Will Jesus maintain his resurrected body in heaven?

5) Is holding to the historic creeds…

a. essential for salvation

b. good for spiritual health but not an absolute requirement

c. not important

d. other…Please specify

YES FOR 1-4, and for #5 I'd suggest that having a correct understanding of the nature of God, of humanity, and of the plan of salvation starts with "b" and works towards "a." "To whom much is given, much is required." In other words, the longer you've been in the faith, and the more access you have to truth, and the more interaction you have with the Holy Spirit, the closer you get to "a." Only God can judge our souls, though.

Edited October 6, 2008 by prisonchaplain
format

[prisonchaplain]

Modalism is considered heresy. Thank you. That was the missing piece.

How can three persons be the exact same God or the exact same being and not be modalism or the Godhead?

That is the divine mystery. We don't know. There is no way for us mortal beings to fathom God's ultimate nature. And, because of this mystery, Jews and Muslims join in condemning our theology as polytheism. But we insist that the three persons of the Godhead, distinct in their personality, are nevertheless one essential being--truly one God.

Is the Son the literal son of God the father? Or is that just a title?

Yes and No. Jesus surely is the Son of God, and this is more than a title. Yet, they are both Co-eternal, as is the Holy Spirit. Therefore, it would not be proper to say that the Father created or in any way "started" the Son.

For those of you who believe the word of God is only to be found in the bible, why are creeds such as the Nicean, used as the measuring stick for proper understanding of God? It seems to be a huge contradiction to me. (I say so with as much respect as I can.)

You are fine. God has given some to be te[achers. And, though we do not accept the strongly hierarchical nature of church governance found in either the Catholic or LDS churches, we do nevertheless recognize that church teaching that spans centuries carries significant weight, compared to the novel little twist I might have found in a passage during my devotional reading this week. And, in reality, we do not heavily study those creeds. Rather, we've distilled the basics and kept that which is true and relevant.

Do you all believe that we humans will all receive a resurrected body as part of salvation?

Yes.

[Maureen]

6) If you hold to creeds which do you hold to....(Multiple answers allowed)

a) Jesus is Lord

b) Apostles

c) Nicene

d) Chalcedon

e) Athanasian

f) All of the above

I grew up with the Apostles Creed and like it because its familiar and memorized. But the Athanasian (the one bytor posted) is my favorite because it goes into great detail.

M. :)

(I bet some of you think I'm going to hell for sure)

[AnthonyB]

Thanks for those who responded, 100% (4 of 4) socail trinitarians but maybe Christians who post on an LDS forum aren't a good sample. Although I would point out the responders came from various traditions (ie Catholic, Lutheran, Pentecostal and Restoration Movement) I will take questions 1-4 to a Christian forum I post on to see what response I get, my expectations would be around 80% of Christians are socail trinitarians.

Misshalfway,

I'd even admit the LDS Godhead is more logical and easier to explain. The problem for me is that I can't personally see it as biblical. (I'm not wanting a verse war on this, there are plenty of these already on this topic on this forum) The Bible ((OT and NT) and the BoM as well) repeatedly has statements that for me testify about God being one God but it then also personifies and diefies all three persons.

LDS perceive God as man glorified, non-LDS Christians see God as in another category altogether. By firmly placing God in the same species (for want of a better word) as man, LDS precieve a united multi personal being as impossible. Non-LDS Christians see God as a different species. Just as I don't expect a dog to understand the complexities of humans, I don't expect humans (like myself) to fully understand the complexities of God.

I hope this doesn't offend people but I feel many LDS hedge on this. They will say there is one God and that the Bible and BoM clearly testify to this. Then they will say but really there are three Gods or many Gods. Just as I feel that non-socail trinitarians underplay the distinctive personhood of each of the three persons, LDS IMHO underplay the unity of Godhead. I see this as a reaction against what you have percieved as the under appreciation of the personhood of the persons of God by trinitarians. LDS so often from what I've seen, when confronted with trinitarianism immediately begin defending the seperate personhood within the Godhead. Actually there is IMHO much less difference in this area between LDS and non-LDS Christians than both sides think.

The big divide between us IMHO is whether God and man are the same species. From that the different perceptions of God, man, eternal destinies, continued gender differentiation, God having a physical home and many other differences all spring from.

Edited October 8, 2008 by AnthonyB

[Misshalfway]

Thanks for those who responded, 100% (4 of 4) socail trinitarians but maybe Christians who post on an LDS forum aren't a good sample. Although I would point out the responders came from various traditions (ie Catholic, Lutheran, Pentecostal and Restoration Movement) I will take questions 1-4 to a Christian forum I post on to see what response I get, my expectations would be around 80% of Christians are socail trinitarians.

Misshalfway,

I'd even admit the LDS Godhead is more logical and easier to explain. The problem for me is that I can't personally see it as biblical. (I'm not wanting a verse war on this, there are plenty of these already on this topic on this forum) The Bible ((OT and NT) and the BoM as well) repeatedly has statements that for me testify about God being one God but it then also personifies and diefies all three persons.

LDS perceive God as man glorified, non-LDS Christians see God as in another category altogether. By firmly placing God in the same species (for want of a better word) as man, LDS precieve a united multi personal being as impossible. Non-LDS Christians see God as a different species. Just as I don't expect a dog to understand the complexities of humans, I don't expect humans (like myself) to fully understand the complexities of God.

I hope this doesn't offend people but I feel many LDS hedge on this. The will say there is one God and that the Bible and BoM clearly testify to this. Then they will say but really there are three Gods or many Gods. Just as I feel that non-socail trinitarians underplay the distinctive personhood of each of the three persons, LDS IMHO underplay the unity of Godhead. I see this as a reaction against what you have percieved as the under appreciation of the personhood of the persons of God by trinitarians. LDS so often from what I've seen, when confronted with trinitarianism immediately begin defending the seperate personhood within the Godhead. Actually there is IMHO much less difference in this area between LDS and non-LDS Christians than both sides think.

The big divide between us IMHO is whether God and man are the same species. From that the different perceptions of God, man, eternal destinies, continued gender differentiation, God having a physical home and many other differences all spring from.

I think you describe the differences very well, Anthony. The Trinity confuses me for many reasons. And I don't think that I could ever be persuaded to believe it. But I do appreciate your willingness to describe the belief. I can't say that my questions have been satisfied, but as you all seem to agree, the parts that can't be answered are part of the mysteries of God. It feels like you all accept that ambiguity and that it somehow makes your faith stronger. As long as God is different from man, he is superior to man. I think from that perspective, I can see how the LDS view may seem like we are diminishing the greatness or power of God by identifying with him.

Anyway, I thank you again for attempting to answer. And I think at the end of the day, what really brings us together is our desire to please God and our heartfelt belief in something beyond our earth and ourselves.