pam Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 I read the Twilight books and should say enjoyed some of them. The third book is full of near-sexual scenes. This was kind of shocking. I did not expect something like near-adult content in there. So, I definately won't recommend it to teenagers and not even sure whether it is okay to recommend it to the members of the Church in general. So members of the Church don't have sex after getting married? Gotcha. I forgot..it's such a hush hush subject. I've read the books and they didn't go into detail. If it had I'd agree but it didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarnished Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 Elder Sterling W. Sill - The Poetry of SuccessI am not talking about writing about depraved subjects, I am talking about writing about non LDS themes, such as people who are not LDS who do not act like LDS members. My friend for example is not planning on having graphic scenes in her book. But the fact is that the book is about adultery and the lies that often come from such an act. And if she gets published I am sure that someone is going to say, "This came from an LDS author? I can't believe that someone LDS would write about adultery."I write twisted fairy tales, I would not give many of the fairy tales I write to children or even teens. That is not to say that I have bad things in my stories, just that they are geared for adults and not children. Then again fairy tales were first created for adults and later adapted for children. Most of the original fairy tales I would not deem appropriate for a child or a teen. What I am saying is that you can be LDS and still write about topics that are not LDS in nature, you can write about non LDS characters and have them do non LDS things. Doing so does not make you a bad person, it does not change your internal character. A person can tastefully write about such issues without making the book raunchy. As far as the Twilight series went I think Meyer did a good job of tastefully fading to black (figuratively) during scenes that could have been a lot more graphic. I think she did quite well with having the main characters wait till they were married to have sex, they were not LDS, they could have had sex before and been completely within accepted society standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanh Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 Tarnished, I think you should understand well that we best learn the lessons of how we get trapped by actually getting trapped - not everyone is wise enough to learn from other's mistakes. Do you think that reading your friends book many years back would have changed your path? Or would it have fed the ideas? I suggest the latter. The path to adultery starts with entertaining the thought. What a person writes does not always reflect what they believe, and what a person writes does not comment on their character.There is something grossly wrong with that statement. And I would suggest that acceptance of such a belief is precisely why those caught in a web of inappropriate sexuality are caught in that web. They don't realize that as a man/woman thinketh, so is he/she. Did you really see the end result when you entertained the very first thought? Or did you rationalize that you didn’t accept it as right, so it would never be possible, so you didn’t need to flush that thought out of your mind immediately?While your friend may not believe that adultery is right, I can tell you precisely where her thoughts and dreams are!!! She has already taken the first steps. Doesn't mean she will go there, but she is closer for having entertained the thoughts. Showing the consequences of a circumstance is, in my opinion, at best a very limited deterrent. We can always justify away that we are different. How is this even pertinent to Twilight anyway? Why do you even bring it up? Twilight is purely for entertainment, not base entertainment that may have some redeeming value such as you are indicating your friend’s book is.As far as the Twilight series went I think Meyer did a good job of tastefully fading to black (figuratively) during scenes that could have been a lot more graphic.You are kidding right? You think it is best to instead of giving the reader a story of "they kissed, realized they were not in an appropriate situation, and departed company", she should lead the reader right to the edge and let them float off into their own imagination? And you see nothing wrong with that? This story line is aimed at teenage girls! Let’s just lead their minds into a dark bedroom alone with a ‘perfect’, loving, attractive, boy, and let their imagination roam free. Sad.they could have had sex before and been completely within accepted society standards.Then go discuss it on a forum where morals and standards are more lax. For us, much more has been given, so much more is expected. Society’s standards are not what we should be looking to as our moral guide. Just because you are LDS doesn't mean that you can't write things that are not LDS in nature.Of course you can. You can be LDS and gossip, pass along dirty jokes, look at porn, and a whole lot worse. That you can do something is not in the least any form of justification. You can write that which leadeth away from God, but it doesn't mean you should. Everyone has their free agency to choose if they will serve God or mammon. I for one would not wish, no matter how much money and fame were possible, to be the cause of leading so many people into thoughts of unrighteousness. I am glad I am not in Stephanie's shoes.And that is all Twilight is good for in my opinion - leading young and older women into thoughts that they might not otherwise entertain. I would suggest that any women that thinks it is just fine to read Twilight and not be 'stained' by it should read: Personal Purity and Intimacy - Watson 1999 Women's Conference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarnished Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 Tarnished, I think you should understand well that we best learn the lessons of how we get trapped by actually getting trapped - not everyone is wise enough to learn from other's mistakes. Do you think that reading your friends book many years back would have changed your path? Or would it have fed the ideas? I suggest the latter. The path to adultery starts with entertaining the thought. There is something grossly wrong with that statement. And I would suggest that acceptance of such a belief is precisely why those caught in a web of inappropriate sexuality are caught in that web. They don't realize that as a man/woman thinketh, so is he/she. Did you really see the end result when you entertained the very first thought? Or did you rationalize that you didn’t accept it as right, so it would never be possible, so you didn’t need to flush that thought out of your mind immediately?While your friend may not believe that adultery is right, I can tell you precisely where her thoughts and dreams are!!! She has already taken the first steps. Doesn't mean she will go there, but she is closer for having entertained the thoughts. Showing the consequences of a circumstance is, in my opinion, at best a very limited deterrent. We can always justify away that we are different. How is this even pertinent to Twilight anyway? Why do you even bring it up? Twilight is purely for entertainment, not base entertainment that may have some redeeming value such as you are indicating your friend’s book is.You are kidding right? You think it is best to instead of giving the reader a story of "they kissed, realized they were not in an appropriate situation, and departed company", she should lead the reader right to the edge and let them float off into their own imagination? And you see nothing wrong with that? This story line is aimed at teenage girls! Let’s just lead their minds into a dark bedroom alone with a ‘perfect’, loving, attractive, boy, and let their imagination roam free. Sad.Then go discuss it on a forum where morals and standards are more lax. For us, much more has been given, so much more is expected. Society’s standards are not what we should be looking to as our moral guide. Of course you can. You can be LDS and gossip, pass along dirty jokes, look at porn, and a whole lot worse. That you can do something is not in the least any form of justification. You can write that which leadeth away from God, but it doesn't mean you should. Everyone has their free agency to choose if they will serve God or mammon. I for one would not wish, no matter how much money and fame were possible, to be the cause of leading so many people into thoughts of unrighteousness. I am glad I am not in Stephanie's shoes.And that is all Twilight is good for in my opinion - leading young and older women into thoughts that they might not otherwise entertain. I would suggest that any women that thinks it is just fine to read Twilight and not be 'stained' by it should read: Personal Purity and Intimacy - Watson 1999 Women's ConferenceI would appreciate it if you would not bring my personal life into a discussion where I have not brought it up first. My friend is writing a variation on the story of David and Bathsheba. A story of adultery from the Bible, something we are encouraged to read from on a daily basis. What I am trying to say with my posts is this: As a writer not always will all your stories be about something from your background. Not always will an LDS writer write only LDS stories. And expecting them to is ignorant. Writing is form of creative expression, and sometimes it may not be exactly what we expect. I am not saying that I think we should encourage our youth to read things that could lead them to unmoral behavior. Do I think Meyer's books are completely teen safe? No, I think her books really should have been geared toward an older audience, but considering what is out there I think she was appropriate with how she handled her "sex" scenes. Consider some of the other books out there that are required reading for teens. Many of them are far worse than the Twilight series. How this all relates to the Twilight series is this. If you don't like the books, don't read them. If you don't like how she writes, don't read her stuff, if you don't different scenes in the books then don't even go near anything that looks like her stuff. But don't judge her LDS morality or her character based on a book she wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mirancs8 Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 How this all relates to the Twilight series is this. If you don't like the books, don't read them. If you don't like how she writes, don't read her stuff, if you don't different scenes in the books then don't even go near anything that looks like her stuff. But don't judge her LDS morality or her character based on a book she wrote.See the one predicament I see in what you are writing is when one who normally wouldn't think of reading such book has to deal with someone who does read it. For example the coworker of mine who talks to me ALOT about his wife's obsession with Twilight and how it effects their 15+ year marriage. Sure seems juvenile for a woman who is 35+ years old stay at home mother and wife to be obsessing about something so ridiculous. She goes to those mid-night shows sitting in line for hours with other like minded women while she leaves her husband at home with the children (she typically leaves around mid-afternoon to stand in line). Not only that she dresses up some certain way for these shows. I asked him exactly how does she dress and he said like a vampire woman. Not sure what he means but in his words he said, "though I tell her I don't want her leaving the house like that she does it anyway. It's out there. I don't like it at all." He told me that he get's uncomfortable when the children are nagging him when mommy is going to come home. For him he can't understand why they can't find a mutual interest is something and enjoy it together. He told me that it makes him feel excluded, abandoned, ignored, and confused about their personal time together. He works all day and when he comes home he wants her attention, but unfortunately she's typically in the depths of the book or when the kids go to bed she's watching the movie. He isn't getting that time with his wife... Twilight has consumed that time that was once his to be with her. She seems consumed with the characters and who they are which makes him feel like he is being gauged against these young heartthrobs. He doesn't understand what is morally correct about grown women lusting after these very young actors. It's like you are cheating in your mind. You start to think about thoughts that otherwise wouldn't be there... when married those deep thoughts should be of your spouse not some actor playing a role. He feels like he is competing with Twilight for her attention in each facet of their relationship. I have never read the books nor had any desire to see the movies but it sounds like women are getting really hooked enough to effect their real life relationships. I am not familiar obviously of the content of the books/movies but from what I am hearing from others it's full of fantasy and thrills.My problem with her writing stuff like this is that other LDS might think well she's LDS and is writing this so it must be OK. When it might not be. We may hold her at a higher standard that would be deemed appropriate in LDS standards. Heck she even noted in an interview that her Mormon faith is a big influence for her books. So sure we would like to not judge her LDS morality or her character based on a book she wrote. But when you tell people that your Mormon faith is a big influence... well she invited that criticism in all by herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 My problem with her writing stuff like this is that other LDS might think well she's LDS and is writing this so it must be OK. When it might not be. We may hold her at a higher standard that would be deemed appropriate in LDS standards. Heck she even noted in an interview that her Mormon faith is a big influence for her books. So sure we would like to not judge her LDS morality or her character based on a book she wrote. But when you tell people that your Mormon faith is a big influence... well she invited that criticism in all by herself.Correct. This is not unique to her though, there are also other LDS entertainers in similar situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarnished Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 My problem with her writing stuff like this is that other LDS might think well she's LDS and is writing this so it must be OK. When it might not be. We may hold her at a higher standard that would be deemed appropriate in LDS standards. Heck she even noted in an interview that her Mormon faith is a big influence for her books. So sure we would like to not judge her LDS morality or her character based on a book she wrote. But when you tell people that your Mormon faith is a big influence... well she invited that criticism in all by herself.Orson Scott Card, best example I can think of this. When I speak with people about his work I say, "Most of his later stuff is safe, but I would stay away from much of his early stuff." Some of the stuff he wrote in his early years would make most people never read another book by him EVER. Some of it is downright pornographic. And yet, he has written books such as Sarah, and Rebecka, and other very good books. It is true that when we hear a writer is a member we often think, "Oh, well this should be safe then." When it is not always the case. When it comes to books I think it is often like many other things, if we are not sure about it then we should ask someone who may have read it previously and see if it would be something we would feel comfortable reading. It is very much like movies, a movie may be rated something we feel safe with and yet have parts in it we are not comfortable with. Unless we know someone who has watched it before and can give us insight into the movie we don't know and are just taking the chance when we watch it. When it comes to Twilight fanaticism I think it really comes down to the fact that some people go overboard with their obsession for things. It is not limited to women or to teens or to chick flick stuff. I know men who are obsessed with sports to a point where it is unhealthy, or video games, or (pick any other thing that can fit as an obsession)... I am sure that when Stephanie Meyer wrote her first book that she had no idea what it would turn into. Same as J.K. Rowling, same as any author who writes a book that makes it big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 My problem with her writing stuff like this is that other LDS might think well she's LDS and is writing this so it must be OK. When it might not be. We may hold her at a higher standard that would be deemed appropriate in LDS standards. Heck she even noted in an interview that her Mormon faith is a big influence for her books.I gotta say, I'm with Tarnished on this issue. Most people understand that the storyteller isn't necessarily the same as the person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over43 Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 I can't get through the first Harry Potter book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan_Doyle Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Elphaba, Do not be ashamed at all. Not being able to finish Twilight is a mark of very high intelligence and taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) If that is the measurement for intelligence and taste then I am unfortunately lacking in both. Edited February 20, 2011 by pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlimac Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I can't get through the first Harry Potter book.Wow. I guess it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 If that is the measurement for intelligence and taste then I am unfortunately lacking in both.Don't worry! We still love you!I actually have very little against Twilight. I've read all the books, but never thought they were anything more than "okay". However, my critiques don't go much beyond personal taste. I think the romance is annoying, but I think that's just me and I actually like her writing style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Don't worry! We still love you!I actually have very little against Twilight. I've read all the books, but never thought they were anything more than "okay". However, my critiques don't go much beyond personal taste. I think the romance is annoying, but I think that's just me and I actually like her writing style. Even though I lack intelligence and taste. That makes me feel so much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I can't get through the first Harry Potter book.I"m still trying to convince myself to reread the Eye of the world series, now that they are finished (I think) and as I havent read the last couple books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan_Doyle Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Pam, Please take a look into these titles all of which are Twilight related (Except no one sparkles) The Vampyre by John William Polidori Varney the Vampire; or, the Feast of Blood was a mid-Victorian era serialized gothic horror story by James Malcolm Rymer (alternatively attributed to Thomas Preskett Prest). Dracula By Bram Stoker The Silver Kiss By Annette Curtis Klause and Blood and Chocolate By Annette Curtis Klause Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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