What my church says about homosexual behavior

[prisonchaplain]

Sexuality: Homosexual Conduct

As an American Christian I will do my part to express Christian moral and social positions in the public arena. My underlying rationale may be the teachings of my faith, but, like anyone inspired by Karl Marx or Adam Smith, I too have a right to put forth my beliefs, and let the public discuss them. Our Courts are charged with protecting minorities from "the tyranny of the majority." I'm just not convinced that engaging in a sin that most people are not tempted by makes one a minority.

[bytor2112]

I'm just not convinced that engaging in a sin that most people are not tempted by makes one a minority.

Even from a secular stand point........homosexuality is determined by sexual desire for one's own gender. Does this desire create a new species? A new race? A new gender? A new nationality? Obviously not. So, why oh why do we even have the debate? Unless scientists and the government suddenly pronounce people with these desires as something other than male or female.......then I think the argument is settled.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

The real question isn't whether or not homosexuals are a "minority", but whether government should have the right to legislate their behavior.

[prisonchaplain]

Puf, if the answer to your latter question is "no," then homosexuals should be satisfied that government stays out of it. Yet, there is this demand for official government recognition--that Caesar must declare same-sex partnerships to be just the same as traditional marriage. I've yet to hear anyone here arguing that government should re-criminalize homosexual activity.

[AnthonyB]

PC,

Why pick out that one particular group? (There has been plenty said on the other thread.)

"Fidelity within, abstinence without" (marriage that is). Sums up my view. I think we need to make it clear that our stand is not just at a particular group but is based on a positive view of what we think is the God given place for appropriate expressions of certain gifts He has blessed us with. That any use of such a special God given gift outside His ordained design will be outside the makers plan and lead to people living outside what they have been designed to live. If you don't follow the design/plan you end up in a mess. (As any one who has put together swedish flat pack furniture will atest.)

Edited November 26, 2008 by AnthonyB

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Puf, if the answer to your latter question is "no," then homosexuals should be satisfied that government stays out of it. Yet, there is this demand for official government recognition--that Caesar must declare same-sex partnerships to be just the same as traditional marriage. I've yet to hear anyone here arguing that government should re-criminalize homosexual activity.

Rights and responsibilities of marriages in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia has an extensive list of the benefits of a civil union. As long as these benefits are denied to any particular group, the government is arguably involved. While I believe that homosexuality is a sin, to have any legislation affecting that lifestyle, including existing legislation, without a non-religious justification violates the First Amendment clause regarding establishment of religion.

Personally, I think I could come up with one or two non-religious justifications. But of course nobody on either side of the debate would care, unless some famous bigwig quoted them on national television

I think we need to make it clear that our stand is not just at a particular group but is based on a positive view of what we think is the God given place for appropriate expressions of certain gifts He has blessed us with.

I think the intention of the OP was exactly that - to promote the positive ideals that PC believes and holds to be true(hence the link). The execution may not have been quite as ideal as the plan

My personal feelings on the (legal) matter are rather complex and not entirely concrete, so I'll refrain from spelling them out unless asked.

[prisonchaplain]

Anthony, a specific group was discussed because a specific group is demanding marriage rights and trying to cement into law the doctrine that sexual orientation is biologically equivalent to race and gender.

In a larger sense, I agree with you. However, society will not honor our standards either. Louisiana tried to institute a voluntary alternative marriage license, called "covenant marriage." Those married under this license, would have to have premarital counseling, and would not be able to divorce without proving some cause, or without first seeking counseling. Again, this was voluntary. The secular progressive insisted that young, weak women would be forced into signing their rights away with this paradigm.

[Hemidakota]

Even from a secular stand point........homosexuality is determined by sexual desire for one's own gender. Does this desire create a new species? A new race? A new gender? A new nationality? Obviously not. So, why oh why do we even have the debate? Unless scientists and the government suddenly pronounce people with these desires as something other than male or female.......then I think the argument is settled.

How about A-Sexual Human clone? Think about it....

[Hemidakota]

Sexuality: Homosexual Conduct

As an American Christian I will do my part to express Christian moral and social positions in the public arena. My underlying rationale may be the teachings of my faith, but, like anyone inspired by Karl Marx or Adam Smith, I too have a right to put forth my beliefs, and let the public discuss them. Our Courts are charged with protecting minorities from "the tyranny of the majority." I'm just not convinced that engaging in a sin that most people are not tempted by makes one a minority.

Good for you...keep on standing on that SOAPBOX. "I got your back bro!"

[Traveler]

I thought I would add my opinion. First may I say that I do not think G-d defines what is sin and what is not. I believe he sees the potential of mankind for good or evil and advises us accordingly. I do not think G-d tells us not to sin because he does not like it but because of the effect sin has in ending freedom and creating bondage.

I have friends that are homosexuals that I care about and I share time with. I like to ask questions and point out things. Some things I have learned:

No one, including homosexuals can identify homosexuality in another person. The truth is that all of us are sexually aware are attracted to a gender and that attraction is not triggered in the fact of their orientation. The attraction is to gender. Some may not want to admit it but homosexual men are attracted to other men – regardless of their orientation. Only after the attraction is there an honest discovery of orientation – if the other person is aware where the developing friendship is leading.

As a boy grows from childhood to adulthood there are times when they are vulnerable to suggestions concerning sexuality. I know this because I was once a boy. I assume girls are also more vulnerable at certain points of their lives as well. Some times are by age and others by situation in life. I believe that age of Boy Scouts is such a vulnerable age and the pressures of military and combat I believe to be a situation of vulnerability. I am most concerned that there is an agenda to abandon protection by society to individuals in those situations.

I believe a person can be brainwashed to believe anything – including their sexual orientation. I have never seen any scientific study to demonstrate otherwise.

I believe that homosexuality like other addictive behaviors can be acquired by any number of ways. I also believe that there are many other addictive sexual behaviors that can also be acquired. I regret that society refuses to recognize sexual behavior (what ever kind it is) as a acquired addictive behavior. For this reason I also regret that society (except for some religions) refuses to give proper sexual education based on the need in society for a next generation that grows up in loving and caring homes disciplined beyond selfishness and selfish passions and selfish desires.

The Traveler

Edited November 26, 2008 by Traveler

[applepansy]

I thought I would add my opinion. First may I say that I do not think G-d defines what is sin and what is not.

I tried really hard to keep my mouth shut but its just not working. . .

God has defined sin. This is not my opinion. It is scripture. Start with the Ten Commandments.

applepansy

[Traveler]

I tried really hard to keep my mouth shut but its just not working. . .

God has defined sin. This is not my opinion. It is scripture. Start with the Ten Commandments.

applepansy

I am sorry I did not communicate this well. I do not believe that G-d determined sin. He may tell us what is sin - but I do not think it is just because he has an opinion on it. I believe all sins that are possible existed before G-d gave us the 10 commandments or for that matter any commanement. I believe sin exist regardless of any opinion - including G-d's. What I am trying to say is that sin has an existance of it's own and that even without a connection to G-d man should be intelligent enough on their own to figure out what is sin. But that does not mean that man will. I do not believe G-d created sin - I do not believe he has any desire in sin or in our sinning.

G-d has asked us to avoid sin. Not because there are things he does not like or because what would happen to him but because of the effect of sin on us. I believe that in his wisdom G-d abhors sin and that it is in our good intrest to not sin and follow his lead. He warns us not so he can have it better for himself but that we might have it better for ourselves.

The Traveler

[skalenfehl]

The simplest definition of sin is to know God's will and not do it. As long as man has known of God's will or commandment, the potential to act against it has existed. Sin cannot exist without law and the law must be given for man to act upon whether to live it or transgress it.