Christmas without Christ?


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President Spencer W. Kimball early journal while serving a mission: :lol:

Mon. 21. Bro. Strauser, Elder [J.C.] Henderson and I walked to Sullivan over the slick ice and I bot some Xmas cards and trinkets. My feet hurt badly by the time I got back.

Tue. 22. Did a lot of writing and sent off a few gifts. P.M. We rode sleds down the hill all afternoon. Again after supper we rode sleds till 9 o'clock. Lots of fun but also lots of bumps.

Wed. 23. Went hunting with Elder [W.] Lindsay. Washed dishes for Sis. Strauser. Made ice cream.

Thur. 24. Thur. night had a Xmas eve party. Program, games and a jolly time.

Fri. 25. Xmas morning. Bro. & Sis Strauser gave us handkerchiefs, garters, armbands and straps for grips. Games and a good time. Xmas dinner of Turkey, duck and all other dainties. Excellent dinner. Games skated and danced, then to the hill where we sled-rode. Back home and games again took our attention. O! What a glorious Xmas. A most happy one. No thots of home hardly.

1915

on.[Jan.] 4. Left after dinner for the country. Traveled a couple of miles and found Mr. Thos. Collins. He had bot books from Elder Lloyd & Elder Papsworth. We stayed with him, explaining the gospel to him & family and held a meeting with him, which they enjoyed.

Tue. 5. Traveled thru' thick mud all day without any dinner. We ate our Xmas cake given to us by Elsie Strauser. umm it was fine, tasted more-ish. To Decamp where we tried to get the schoolhouse but failed. Found a kind host & hostess in the persons of Mr. & Mrs. John Hale.

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To me, hearing people say Xmas is almost as annoying as hearing people say LOL. You don't need to verbalize the abbreviation of "Christ" since it takes just as much effort to verbalize "X" just as you don't need to say LOL, it is easier to just laugh (not to mention if you say LOL but don't laugh, you are obviously lying)!

Ok, rant over :)

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In my first post on this thread I wrote:

Celebrate Christmas, especially your belief in Christ, and have a lovely day.

I just read it again, and realised it sounds like I'm being sarcastic. I didn't mean to be. I really meant for you to celebrate the day that reminds you of your belief in Christ.

I also meant it when I said

and have a lovely day.

I'm sorry for any confusion.

Elphaba

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In my first post on this thread I wrote:

I just read it again, and realised it sounds like I'm being sarcastic. I didn't mean to be. I really meant for you to celebrate the day that reminds you of your belief in Christ.

I also meant it when I said

I'm sorry for any confusion.

Elphaba

Thanks for clearing that up. I know I was really confused. ;)

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I have to agree that the War on Christmas is quite a fantasy. The AFA encourages boycotts of companies who use "Happy Holidays" in their advertising slogans. Since when is it good advertising to exclude people when you want them to buy your product. Furthermore, a store's sales have nothing to do with Christmas...they're trying to capitalize on your religious belief--why would you encourage that?

In the pluralistic country we live in, the season from Thanksgiving until New Year's is marked my numerous celebrations and festivities. It's become a cultural event of generosity, compassion, service, and charity. That whole time frame has become its own holiday of sorts. So it seems to me to be appropriate to refer to this time as the Holidays, and when I want to mention Christmas specifically, I can say Christmas.

But Elphaba, I want to disagree with you. I think a teacher should be able to put up a poster that says Merry Christmas. Just like I think any teacher, or any student for that matter, should be able to put up a poster for Hannukah, Passover, Ramadan, Purim, Easter, Martin Luther King Day, or whatever else. The only restriction I would put on it is that there should only be one poster per holiday per room (this would prevent one group from plastering their own posters to prevent the notice of another group's poster). I don't think the answer is to celebrate none of them, but rather, to celebrate all the ones that people want to celebrate.

If Atheists want, they can pick a day to call "What God? Day." If you'll celebrate Christmas with me, I'll celebrate What God? Day with you. ;)

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If Atheists want, they can pick a day to call "What God? Day." If you'll celebrate Christmas with me, I'll celebrate What God? Day with you. ;)

"What God? Day" - 7 results on google (none of them actually referring to a proposed holiday, I don't think it is catchy enough)

"Atheistmas" - 243 results on google (most of them are people mocking what christmas has become)

"Atheist's Day" - 688 results on google (most of them offensively and incorrectly claiming it to be April Fools Day, look it up on snopes)

Very interesting. From all this, I conclude that there aren't currently any atheist holidays, but there should be :)

Edited by DigitalShadow
added another search
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But Elphaba, I want to disagree with you. I think a teacher should be able to put up a poster that says Merry Christmas. Just like I think any teacher, or any student for that matter, should be able to put up a poster for Hannukah, Passover, Ramadan, Purim, Easter, Martin Luther King Day, >snip< I don't think the answer is to celebrate none of them, but rather, to celebrate all the ones that people want to celebrate.

Neither do I.

I have absolutely no problem with your examples. I think it would be great for any teacher to use all of them as teaching tools, including celebrating them, and the students would be better for it.

Here’s the thing: If this woman, as a private citizen, demands to put up a sign reflecting her personal religious beliefs, she has every right to do so.

However, when she, the teacher walks into that classroom, she no longer has the right to demand anything of the kind.

I'm not saying she can't display the sign--she can, but not because it reflects her personal religious beliefs. It's more complicated than that.

She, the teacher, is responsible for creating a teachable environment for her students.

And when she, the teacher, snaps at one of her students while she is putting up the sign, and lets him know his opinions are irrelevant, she, the teacher, is not creating that teachable environment.

In fact when she impatiently and curtly says:

Look, Christmas is a holiday and I am going to have a sign that says Merry Christmas.

she, the teacher, made this about what she wanted, and about her, not about her students.

Additionally, IMO, she actually blew a great teaching moment where she, the teacher, could have encouraged a discussion among her students about why she wanted to display the sign.

And if she, the teacher, had approached the situation in a way that respected her students’ opinions, I would have absolutely no problem with her displaying the sign.

In fact, if she had just not snapped at the one student, I probably would not have a problem with it. But the bottom line is, teachers simply do not have the right to snap at their students just because their opinions are inconvenient.

And though I realize it’s difficult to understand this concept, it is illegal for a teacher to display a religious sign simply because it reflects her, the teacher’s, personal beliefs. There is no getting around this, and this is why I am shocked she wasn’t reprimanded.

I know I’m being anal with all of my bolding, and I’ll stop now. But hopefully you can better see why I am so adamant that the way this teacher handled the entire situation was appalling. It is a perfect example of what not to do in a classroom.

Having said all of this, obviously this teacher is human, and is going to make mistakes. But still, because this was such an egregious mistake, and one she should have thought through, I don't think this incident is one that can, or should be, easily be dismissed.

If Atheists want, they can pick a day to call "What God? Day."

I can understand why you might think my objections are because I’m an atheist, but they're not.

If you'll celebrate Christmas with me, I'll celebrate What God? Day with you.

It‘s a date. :P

Elphaba

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Are you saying everytime someone writes a LOL in response to something I've written, it's only a courtesy laugh?

Why didn't anyone tell me about this!?

Rejected, and dejected, Elphaba

LOL

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

:lol::lol:

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Are you saying everytime someone writes a LOL in response to something I've written, it's only a courtesy laugh?

Why didn't anyone tell me about this!?

Rejected, and dejected, Elphaba

Hi Elphaba,

I just wanted to tell you ( in case no one has ) that when people write an " LOL " to you in response to something you have written, it is only a courtesy laugh.:)

Peace,

Ceeboo

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I can understand why you might think my objections are because I’m an atheist, but they're not.

Actually, I was quite aware your objections weren't because you're an atheist. But if we're going to celebrate all of these religious holidays, I don't want to exclude those that lack religion. It isn't fair to celebrate religious holidays and not lack-of-religious-holidays.

Remember, Elphs, ours is a Gospel of inclusion! ;)

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Hi Elphaba,

I just wanted to tell you ( in case no one has ) that when people write an " LOL " to you in response to something you have written, it is only a courtesy laugh.:)

Peace,

Ceeboo

I use lol a lot in my posts - being British if I don't its very easy to offend and American without even trying. I don't use it as in your meant to laugh just this was not ment to be serious

-Charley

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Christmas gets it's name from Christ-Mass-the Catholic mass that celebrates Christ's birth-this evolved into Christmas.

In the Catholic Church-going or not going to Mass on Christmas for the Christ-Mass is not an option. It is a requirement of our faith tradition and considered as a Holy Day of Obligation-which means it is considered a "sin" if we do not attend church this day--that is the importance the Catholic Church puts on the Christ-Mass.

Santa Clause-comes from the Catholic/Greek Saint Nicholas

Saint Nicholas ::: Origin of Santa

St. Nicholas - Saint of the Day - American Catholic

"Both the Eastern and Western Churches honor him, and it is claimed that, after the Blessed Virgin, he is the saint most pictured by Christian artists. And yet, historically, we can pinpoint only the fact that Nicholas was the fourth-century bishop of Myra, a city in Lycia, a province of Asia Minor.

As with many of the saints, however, we are able to capture the relationship which Nicholas had with God through the admiration which Christians have had for him—an admiration expressed in the colorful stories which have been told and retold through the centuries.

Perhaps the best-known story about Nicholas concerns his charity toward a poor man who was unable to provide dowries for his three daughters of marriageable age. Rather than see them forced into prostitution, Nicholas secretly tossed a bag of gold through the poor man’s window on three separate occasions, thus enabling the daughters to be married. Over the centuries, this particular legend evolved into the custom of gift-giving on the saint’s feast. In the English-speaking countries, St. Nicholas became, by a twist of the tongue, Santa Claus—further expanding the example of generosity portrayed by this holy bishop."

The Christmas Tree has a combination of Pagan and Christian traditions associated with it:

Origin of the Christmas Tree

We live in a multi-religious and multicultural society. I would like to see the birth of Christ celebrated as a religious holiday. I have no problem with a Winter Break, etc-but keep the religious significant separate.

The Jewish faith would find it insulting combining Christian/Pagan symbols with their Festival of Lights-or Hanukkah. Celebrating the cleansing of their Holy Temple in Jerusalem.

Hanukkah - Festival of Lights

-Carol

I'm get really annoyed with people trying to make Christ an offensive term. Such as the huge thing a few years about Walmart or something saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Also in schools they call it Winter break instead of Christmas Break. People seem so concerned about not mentioning Christmas because it might be offensive.

My question is, isn't there so much Christmas that a person of any religion can celebrate it? WE all know the same old story about early Christanity adapting the pagan holidays, yada yada yada. But why can't a Jew celebrate Christmas? Can't they just exclude the Christ parts and have Santa, Christmas trees, Presents, etc.

I dunno but it seems to me that it would be so easy to sidestep the Christ part that anyone can celbrate it. And if it is a holiday that is applicable to everyone then why should anyone get offended when mentioning Christmas.

What do you all think?

Disclaimer: I'm not saying we should take Christ out of Christmas. I'm just saying that for those who don't believe in Christ why can't the celebrate Christmas without it being about Christ. Can't they have Christmas be about Santa or something?

Edited by abqfriend
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