worstest grammar

[bodhigirlsmiles]

it has often been noted by many that i am completely void of reason. there may be some truth in that. with regard to grammar, however, i am unflinching in its defense. is it wrong to care about grammar? (i realize that i only seldom use capitalization, but that is only out of protest for all things technological!)

it is said that, back in the 1940's, the following message was prominently displayed at the front of the main chemistry lecture hall at a major university:

"The English language is your most versatile scientific instrument. Learn to use it with precision."

in the intervening years, the teaching of proper grammar in the public elementary and high schools has seemingly fallen into disfavor. the inevitable result is that manuscripts submitted to us (teachers of english) are often full of grammatical errors. these errors often go unrecognized (and, in could be argued, the makers of such errors often would not care about them if they did recognize them).

i personally regard this state of affairs as deplorable, and i want to do something about it. what better place to start than here on tol? for many years i - along with many others - have tried to correct the grammar of papers when in a position to do so. this is toilsome at best, and completely vexing at worst. this sometimes entails rather substantial rephrasing. it would obviously be preferable to have authors use correct grammar in the first place. the problem, then, is how to get them to do it.

one fairly effective way is to provide examples of what not to do. to this end, humor often proves itself particularly helpful. a few weeks ago i found taped to a colleague's office door the most complete list i have come across to illustrate this. (he told me it was passed out in a class at darthmouth at the time a term paper was assigned). i reproduce it here in the hope that it will have prove of use to some.

1. Make sure each pronoun agrees with their antecedent.

2. Just between you and I, the case of pronoun is important.

3. Watch out for irregular verbs which have crope into English.

4. Verbs has to agree in number with their subjects.

5. Don't use no double negatives.

6. Being bad grammar, a writer should not use dangling modifiers.

7. Join clauses good like a conjunction should.

8. A writer must be not shift your point of view.

9. About sentence fragments.

10. Don't use run-on sentences you got to punctuate them.

11. In letters essays and reports use commas to separate items in series.

12. Don't use commas, which are not necessary.

13. Parenthetical words however should be enclosed in commas.

14. Its important to use apostrophes right in everybodys writing.

15. Don't abbrev.

16. Check to see if you any words out.

17. In the case of a report, check to see that jargonwise, it's A-OK.

18. As far as incomplete constructions, they are wrong.

19. About repetition, the repetition of a word might be real effective repetition - take, for instance the repetition of Abraham Lincoln.

20. In my opinion, I think that an author when he is writing should definitely not get into the habit of making use of too many unnecessary words that he does not really need in order to put his message across.

21. Use parallel construction not only to be concise but also clarify.

22. It behooves us all to avoid archaic expressions. (this one, of all of these, is the most difficult for me!)

23. Mixed metaphors are a pain in the neck and ought to be weeded out.

24. Cunsult the dictionery to avoid mispelings.

25. To ignorantly split an infinitive is a practice to religiously avoid.

26. Last but not least, lay off cliches.

it is not my wish to be didactic....well, that isn't entirely true ....but, rather, to present an issue that is of critical importance to me and, perhaps, to make you smile a little this morning. so what do you think? am i crazy?!?! :)

Edited December 6, 2008 by bodhigirlsmiles

[BenRaines]

Does grammar include typographical errors? Also, is it bad etiquette to sign my posts?

Ben Raines

[bodhigirlsmiles]

Does grammar include typographical errors? Also, is it bad etiquette to sign my posts?

Ben Raines

typographical errors hold a lesser degree of unacceptability with me. :)

no, i do not think that it is poor etiquette to sign your posts.

[Elgama]

:) I am smiling but ain't gonna change my style of writing lol I can produce a perfect grammatical essay or assignment when it is required, but when I don;t have to I don't, And I won't mention my views that American's speak and write American and not English lol

In the UK if you speak a dialect or have specific regional distinction to your speech and even writing it is called by its regional name, Scouse, Scots, Glaswegian, Dundonian, Doric, Brummie, Lancashire, Yorkshire, Cockney, Welsh - it is not called English. Even the Queen's speech is referred to as Received Pronunciation, RP, Posh, Queen's Own English etc People generally become less broad in their local dialect/Regional accent so others can understand.

My orginal dialect is Scouse (the Beatles but broader) so I can legitimately put no full stops whatsoever in my work lol because when a person speaks in Scouse they never take a breath lol -

Lewis Grassic Gibbon wrote a Scots Quair - and he used very few full stops I love the books

English is a language that needs to be challenged and to constantly evolve or we would all be speaking Anglo Saxon instead. I also think one of the reasons people find it relatively easy to learn is that it can be understood so easily even full of mistakes.

-Charley

[BenRaines]

Hukd aun foniks wurkd 4 me.

Ben Raines

[Moksha]

Also, is it bad etiquette to sign my posts?

Ben Raines

No, it simply gives us double notice as to who you are, plus some people like Elgama like to add their real name when it varies from their screen name.

[BenRaines]

Well I for one want to make everyone know who I am. :) I am such a shy person in real world that the Internet gives me a whole new personality.

Ben Raines

[pushka]

I'm almost constantly concerned about my use of grammar, and whether it's correct..I loved English lessons at school but did better in English Literature than in English Language/Grammar. One of my main problems is the use of the comma, either too little or too much..I try to read something out loud, to see if commas are required, and find that I get out of breath (due to a medical condition) and so put in too many commas!!

Thanks for the laugh and the instruction :)

[Elgama]

I'm almost constantly concerned about my use of grammar, and whether it's correct..I loved English lessons at school but did better in English Literature than in English Language/Grammar. One of my main problems is the use of the comma, either too little or too much..I try to read something out loud, to see if commas are required, and find that I get out of breath (due to a medical condition) and so put in too many commas!!

Thanks for the laugh and the instruction :)

your from Preston is that correct? your comma;s when speaking like with a scouse accent go in a different place, it was so funny I remember an English teacher handing me an assignment and telling me to read it (3 sides of A4 paper) and to put in the full stops whenever I took a break, I think there were 2 full stops when I had finished lol

-Charley

[pushka]

I'm from Burnley, which is quite a way from Preston..nearer to Accrington and Blackburn and the Yorkshire border, but I see what you mean..I don't suppose being nervous helps when reading things aloud, more and more commas would appear! :)

[bodhigirlsmiles]

:) I am smiling but ain't gonna change my style of writing lol I can produce a perfect grammatical essay or assignment when it is required, but when I don;t have to I don't, And I won't mention my views that American's speak and write American and not English lol

this reminds me of a story. some time ago, i was watching c-span and the queen was addressing parliament. she was discussing the deplorable literacy rate in the uk, among other things. at one point, she carefully removed her glasses, folded them, and then paused before looking up. and then she spoke. "it's beginning to get so bad that our youth are sounding more and more like the americans." you could hear the soft chuckles through the building.

English is a language that needs to be challenged and to constantly evolve or we would all be speaking Anglo Saxon instead. I also think one of the reasons people find it relatively easy to learn is that it can be understood so easily even full of mistakes.

and what, my friend, is wrong with anglo saxon??

Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum....

[skalenfehl]

As a writer and aspiring published author, I am constantly trying to improve my writing skills so that my manuscripts are as free from errors as possible. My biggest weakness is punctuation, particularly commas and when to use them. I mean, I know the rules or at least I think I do, but I sometimes tend to doubt myself. It would be nice to have an editor who I could rely on for corrections and suggestions that didn't charge me for it. Usually friends with better skills than mine have been my editors and have done fairly well, but how do I know that their own grammar is perfect?

[Elgama]

I'm from Burnley, which is quite a way from Preston..nearer to Accrington and Blackburn and the Yorkshire border, but I see what you mean..I don't suppose being nervous helps when reading things aloud, more and more commas would appear! :)

Its still a Lancashire rather than Mancunian accent though isn't it? and yes nerves don't help. I don't have that problem, where I grew up everyone either wanted to be an actress, pop star or footballer lol lack of confidence in front of an audience was rare. My actually speaking voice is a bit RP/Northern but the scouse way of speaking quickly is present.

-Charley

[pushka]

Yep, definitely Lancashire vs Yorkshire or Mancunian. Have you been watching the X Factor? Diane Vickers is from Accrington (or Blackburn) and she speaks a lot like we do..unfortunately, lol!

I love the scouse accent..My ex said I viewed Liverpool and all people from there thru rosy coloured specs cos I spent a month in hospital there when I was 8, but that didn't really have anything to do with it..I just love most regional accents..not so keen on Somerset tho :)

[Elgama]

this reminds me of a story. some time ago, i was watching c-span and the queen was addressing parliament. she was discussing the deplorable literacy rate in the uk, among other things. at one point, she carefully removed her glasses, folded them, and then paused before looking up. and then she spoke. "it's beginning to get so bad that our youth are sounding more and more like the americans." you could hear the soft chuckles through the building.

LOL that sounds about right I love the Queen's sense of humour. My Sister in Law visited us in the North East of Scotland she spent first few days refusing to speak without an interpreter (we are about 15 miles from the school Prince Charles hated attending)- then we took her round the coast which is beautiful but the accents are very strong and some are heavily influenced by Norwegian or in the case of some of the villages the older generation have their own language one theory is the village was heavily engaged in smuggling and they spoke that way so as not to be understood.

and what, my friend, is wrong with anglo saxon??

Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum....

LOL nothing is wrong with Anglo Saxon just more complicated to learn I did learn it a bit at university but do not recognise it written we only did speaking, it was part of reconstructing an Anglo Saxon village. My main beef with Anglo Saxons is the boring archaeology - having spent several months digging it up.

-Charley

[BenRaines]

And Americans think we have a problem with East Coast versus West Coast and the South. Doesn't sound at all like the issues they have in England and its territories.

Ben Raines

[bodhigirlsmiles]

I'm almost constantly concerned about my use of grammar, and whether it's correct..I loved English lessons at school but did better in English Literature than in English Language/Grammar. One of my main problems is the use of the comma, either too little or too much..I try to read something out loud, to see if commas are required, and find that I get out of breath (due to a medical condition) and so put in too many commas!!

Thanks for the laugh and the instruction :)

you are so very welcome. i'm glad that you enjoyed it. i am a nerd in many ways, and i actually have been known to diagram sentences for fun. i know, i know. there is probably a 12-step program out there for people such as myself.

[lilered]

I am soooo glad to see a thread about this subject: I have noticed that sometimes posters seem to have more worser grammaticial errors than others. Sum cant spel at al, and uthers cant ever annunicate as most of them English speking folks cin. Sum allowunce shuld be made for we hillbillies who only finished 3rd grade. Course I'm betting our testimonies are as stroong as them others who live in edukated areas. Youall are welcume at r ward anytime yer in these parts.

[Elgama]

And Americans think we have a problem with East Coast versus West Coast and the South. Doesn't sound at all like the issues they have in England and its territories.

Ben Raines

its not a huge issue most people have an at home and a playground voice, you would talk one way with someone from the same area but tone it down for someone from another area.

We are a much older nation and its more comparable to the different Native American Tribes, plus its not just England the UK is made up of 4 main countries Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland all of whom have their own distinct language base, then within that there are the Shetland Islands which used to be Norwegian, the Isle of Man which is Manx etc

Actually that is an interesting angle for the Mary Poppins thread she would have spoken RP (received pronunciation) and he would have spoken very broad cockney, doubt they would have even really been speaking the same language

-Charley

[bodhigirlsmiles]

As a writer and aspiring published author, I am constantly trying to improve my writing skills so that my manuscripts are as free from errors as possible. My biggest weakness is punctuation, particularly commas and when to use them. I mean, I know the rules or at least I think I do, but I sometimes tend to doubt myself. It would be nice to have an editor who I could rely on for corrections and suggestions that didn't charge me for it. Usually friends with better skills than mine have been my editors and have done fairly well, but how do I know that their own grammar is perfect?

i would love to read over your papers. i teach english as well as literature. (i am also an ASL interpreter, and that requires and entirely different set of grammatical rules!)

[Elgama]

Yep, definitely Lancashire vs Yorkshire or Mancunian. Have you been watching the X Factor? Diane Vickers is from Accrington (or Blackburn) and she speaks a lot like we do..unfortunately, lol!

I love the scouse accent..My ex said I viewed Liverpool and all people from there thru rosy coloured specs cos I spent a month in hospital there when I was 8, but that didn't really have anything to do with it..I just love most regional accents..not so keen on Somerset tho :)

I like Diana Vickers, her voice reminds me of someone and I can't remember who its got a very folksy sound to it and I love folk music would love to see more of it mainstream.

LOL I don't actually have a scouse accent anymore unless talking to someone else from there but it does still sooth me - I remember having an arguement after my elecution classes with my Great Aunt Em about Book, look and took - were they pronounce with an ook or an uck

I like Somerset though I spent some fantastic summers there Phil Harding (Time Team) was my boss on one excavation and he and the time I spent was loads of fun that was my main association.

-Charley

[bodhigirlsmiles]

LOL that sounds about right I love the Queen's sense of humour. My Sister in Law visited us in the North East of Scotland she spent first few days refusing to speak without an interpreter (we are about 15 miles from the school Prince Charles hated attending)- then we took her round the coast which is beautiful but the accents are very strong and some are heavily influenced by Norwegian or in the case of some of the villages the older generation have their own language one theory is the village was heavily engaged in smuggling and they spoke that way so as not to be understood.

LOL nothing is wrong with Anglo Saxon just more complicated to learn I did learn it a bit at university but do not recognise it written we only did speaking, it was part of reconstructing an Anglo Saxon village. My main beef with Anglo Saxons is the boring archaeology - having spent several months digging it up.

-Charley

i have to pause for a moment to tell you that i am an absolute anglophile. i often joke amongst my friends that i am going to take a copy of the declaration of independence, write JUST KIDDING on the bottom, and mail it to the queen. there isn't a place in all this world that i would like more to live. (i have seen every episode of the vicar of dibley at least a hundred thousand times!! )

also and without question, jane austen is my favorite author. no country in which such a wonderful person was born could be bad. it can't happen!

don't get me wrong, i love the united states very much, but i have a strange (my parents are both from tibet!!!! so it makes no sense....) connection with england.

god save the queen, indeed!

[bodhigirlsmiles]

Actually that is an interesting angle for the Mary Poppins thread she would have spoken RP (received pronunciation) and he would have spoken very broad cockney, doubt they would have even really been speaking the same language

-Charley

really?? even as late as 1910? (and did you see thread about the mary poppins song?)

[Elgama]

Yep, definitely Lancashire vs Yorkshire or Mancunian. Have you been watching the X Factor? Diane Vickers is from Accrington (or Blackburn) and she speaks a lot like we do..unfortunately, lol!

ooh ooh ooh thanks Pushka who she reminded me of has been bugging me for weeks reading your post I remembered - Gabrielle (Out of Reach and Rise etc), I loved her voice,

She also just has that Sandie Shaw, 60s look which I love too, I haven't been watching it and am very sad she went out tonight.

-Charley

[bodhigirlsmiles]

Actually that is an interesting angle for the Mary Poppins thread she would have spoken RP (received pronunciation) and he would have spoken very broad cockney, doubt they would have even really been speaking the same language

-Charley

tell me more about this rp....sounds lovely indeed!