Chronic Fatigue


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I was a temple worker for a few years. This could hit me there as well as anywhere. There was no refuge from this there. At times it seems like boxing shadows, but I think I have got closer to some. I have got less sleep lately, work better, today my mind was clear and I could remember things needed for work. For me there are 2 kinds of spoons, muscle spoons and nerve spoons. Sometimes I am fine to go play, so it looks like I am not too beat up, but have me plan something or stay on task, that's a problem. I have known how to keep the physical symptoms to a minimum for years. For comparison in the last 30 or so days, though, my wife asked for almost a week for me to get the Christmas lights up and she got half of them up when I didn't, something that is easy for me and hard for her, but whatever that magic stuff is that makes me plan, get the stuff, and do, didn't, wouldn't, had to fight it every step. I got it done. To get them down, I had it all but done before she asked, even the tedious parts that require more dexterity and detail work to untangle the lights, something I have left for her every year to put up and take down. Major improvements. There is a lot I have done to get this far, but the latest step is the cranberry extract noted before, and the H2O2 isn't hurting anything, still paying attention to that. My vision even seems to be clearing, so I will be watching that. Get it? :D If it's not helpful, keep believing anyway. It's a very fine line in my mind between faith to endure and faith to be healed. God has power to assist with either. The choice seems to be up to this and if we endure to the end, we can be commended for both. Considering both sides, I will always have an unreasonable amount on the healing side where possible. I hope a little rubs off if you're feeling short. It CAN be done. Something else must be on the way though. Hmm. Now why would I think that?

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So I had an issue with this at times. Turns out that I was going through sugar crashes and had developed insulin resistance. There's a health food that changed all that.

It was Konjac root. It's a fiber that lowers cholesterol and swells up to 100 times its size with water, turning in to a jelly substance inside you that cleans you out and slows down digestion of sugars, leaving you at a normal level. Now, I take it with something called PGX about an hour before every meal. I've lost weight, I'm not hungry, I'm eating smaller portions and I don't face those crashes every day.

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Ok. So now I am even more confused. I watched this Oprah on hormones. And I felt like I could relate to everything.....almost everything they said. I know that CFS has a hormonal component, but now I don't know whether to scratch my watch or wind my butt. You know?

Hormone levels are only ONE thing to check when looking for the cuase of CFIDS. I saw the Oprah shows on hormones. . .both of them. :eek: (I try to avoid Oprah most of the time.) IMHO, The shows were a bit unbalanced (typical Oprah).

Miss, what you need to do is educate yourself about the disease, the treatments (everything you can fine). Find a good doctor. In SLC O.F.F.E.R. ( used to have a good doctor referral list.

I recommend Dr. Lucinda Batemen. It takes awhile to get into see her but she's worth it. Fatigue Consultation Clinic Dr. Bateman specializes in CFIDS and FMS.

The following link is to a presentation Dr. Bateman did about "Making the most of your Doctor appointments." DigiVision™ by InstaTapes Media © MMVI

Dr. Devin Starlanyl has written two books. . . the first on is in its 2nd Edited Edition. Very good for "not yet diagnosed" or "newly diagnosed." Her website is: Fibromyalgia and Chronic Myofascial Pain Syndrome (FMS/MPS) from Devin Starlanyl Sometimes you can fine her books at the Library. If not they are available at amazon (used too).

I hope some of this will help. When being diagnosed a good doctor will put you through a lot of testing. These illnesses are comprehensive and needed to be treated on a comprehensive level. Most Internists who practice Family Medicine don't know what to test for. But if you trust your doctor and he's willing to listen when you bring him information maybe he/she is the right doctor for you. Communication is the key.

You are in my thoughts and prayers,


P.S. I see my regular doc in Feb and I'm asking him to check my hormone levels. I already know my adrenals are stressed and my thyroid is under attack. I've had perimenopausal symptoms for almost two decades. . . now at age 51, I just want some of this roller coaster to stop. Even now I continue to read the new research and look for new treatments that I feel fit for me and my life. Its an ongoing process for many people who suffer with these illnesses.

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I have been to four doctors. All are a dead end. I found one in Provo but found out my insurance wouldn't cover it. So.....I have been trying to read. Thanks for all your help and concern Apple. I will take a look at the books you describe. The PMS stuff is a nightmare. I am sad....but don't have a reason. I cry or get pissed but I don't have a good reason either. And I still can't drop any weight. It is just weird. And I feel like I got hit by a truck! So frustrating! And I am pretty sure my adrenals are shot too. Not sure about my thyroid as the tests always come back in normal ranges. But if I look at my symptoms, thyroid seems like a logical place to look.

I will try that doc in SLC. Maybe they will be more affordable. This other doc would cost me about 400 bucks for the first evaluation visit and then about 100 a week for 6 weeks. Just too much. But my husband is almost ready to send me anyway because it really is compromising my life. I don't know how people with CFS do it really AND keep a happy life. I go days without sleep and then feel awful when I can't function. Lately I have taking sleeping pills to force the sleep and I try to nap every afternoon when my daughter does. It helps, but I never feel rested or invigorated. That alone makes me kinda cranky. :)

I am starting a new diet....and trying to follow the four step approach. I have my list of supplements I take everyday and my exercise. But, it is clear I need some guidance and support. I did make it thru all of Dec and Jan without getting sick. MIRACLE! :) considering I was sick from August to November. I spose I will take what I can get. :)

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I have been to four doctors. All are a dead end. I found one in Provo but found out my insurance wouldn't cover it. So.....I have been trying to read. Thanks for all your help and concern Apple. I will take a look at the books you describe. The PMS stuff is a nightmare. I am sad....but don't have a reason. I cry or get pissed but I don't have a good reason either. And I still can't drop any weight. It is just weird. And I feel like I got hit by a truck! So frustrating! And I am pretty sure my adrenals are shot too. Not sure about my thyroid as the tests always come back in normal ranges. But if I look at my symptoms, thyroid seems like a logical place to look.


Your TSH ( or thyroid hormone blood levels) can test "within' normal ranges and you can still have a problem. Mine were within normal ranges . . . but I my thyroid antibodies were off the charts. It took me 18 months to convince my doctor I needed the thyroid antibody test.

Do not give up!!!

A good site for thyroid for information about thyroid issues is Thyroid Disease Information - Hypothyroidism - Hyperthyroidism - Thyroid Cancer - Autoimmune Disease - Hashimoto's - Graves' - Goiter - Nodules

Keep posting. . . If you want to talk to other people with these issues online send me a PM. I'll give you the websites.


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II have been to four doctors. All are a dead end. I found one in Provo but found out my insurance wouldn't cover it.

Hi Miss,

I doubt this will help much, but I would bet that ALL of us who were eventually diagnosed with CFS have gone through the same thing. I know I did. And it’s exhausting, because you’re already too ill to keep looking for a doctor who will take you seriously, including taking the time necessary to find out what is wrong. Because of insurance companies restrictions, doctors spend fifteen minutes with you, and then send you on your way with absolutely no information as to why you feel like you’re the walking dead.

I second apple’s referral to Dr. Bateman, even though she has a waiting list. She knows everything there is to know about CFS, and she really is worth the wait. She stuck with me through one of the worst times of my life, and she understood I was telling the truth about my pain and exhaustion. I saw her for almost four years before we both decided I needed to go to a pain clinic. And, today, I miss her very much.

I have been trying to read. Thanks for all your help and concern Apple. I will take a look at the books you describe.

I also second apple’s recommendation about the thyroid tests. You have to make sure the doctor tests for a number of things, not just a TSH, which is the common test for thyroid disease.

I have one more recommendation regarding thyroid tests: Be sure to get a Free T3, and a Free T4. I have talked with probably twenty people who discovered she did have a thyroid problem, because either one or the other, or both, were out of the normal range.

I will try that doc in SLC. Maybe they will be more affordable. This other doc would cost me about 400 bucks for the first evaluation visit and then about 100 a week for 6 weeks.

You know, when I first called Dr. Bateman’s office for an appointment, the first visit was around $350. I thought that was outrageous, and decided not to see her.

Two years later, I finally realized why she was so expensive. In my first visit, she spent hours with me, doing the most thorough workup imaginable. But if she went through an insurance company, it would never have paid for a three-hour visit.

I know she takes insurance now, or at least Medicare, and hopefully she will take yours. I know the $400 is a huge chunk of change, but I also understand why they charge so much today. If you can get together the money, I promise it will be worth it.

Lately I have taking sleeping pills to force the sleep and I try to nap every afternoon when my daughter does. It helps, but I never feel rested or invigorated. That alone makes me kinda cranky.

That is CLASSIC Chronic Fatigue Syndrome., and the first thing any doctor who understands CFS will do is address your lack of sleep.

I want to say, however, that you may have the symptoms of CFS, but not have the disease. Far too many people are diagnosed with it when they don’t really have it. That’s why it’s so important to see a doctor who KNOWS what CFS is.

I’m not saying these people are not ill, or are not suffering from exhaustion, because I believe they really are ill. But these people don’t necessarily have CFS, and the only way you can know for sure is to see a doctor who specializes in it, and in Utah, that would be Dr. Bateman.

All of us who have CFS know what you’re going through, as you’ve already hit the first brick wall--trying to find a doctor who will help you. It’s a horrendous experience, but just know, you’re not alone in this. I know apple would do anything to help you understand what’s happening, as would I.

You are in my thoughts,


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There are a couple of good articles on this site. Here is one for how Byron Richards feels about Oprah's experts. Oprah’s Thyroid Problem Explained | Health and Wellness News

He did another one last week.

To save the thyroid, I would go gluten free, previous links given suggest that I think, and I would suggest being aware of Dr Jeff's joint cream. Joint cream? It has CMO, which is supposed to be good for a lot of things autoimmune. Worked for my ankle, semi painful thyroid and psoriasis. Sort of an off label use for joint cream, but not for CMO.

Where I am coming clear, I can see this a little more clearly. Yeast Infection No Moreâ„¢ - Cure Yeast Infection Holistically has been helpful. It sounds like castor oil packs will help break up some of the gunk in the lymph system and get good circulation back there for some of what you are describing. I think I'm still on my way out, even though I should be asleep right now and am not due to some symptoms. They are fewer and further between.

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Seems like this thread is dying. I hope I'm not killing it or that something is going on somewhere here on this. I have made a lot of progress in the last 30 days. Not bad for walking circles around this thing for 20 or more years with little doodads here and there. I feel at this rate I may not go senile early. I wake up, and if it's a little hard, it clears, which it never really used to. I have more focus at work. I started ice skating, but noticed it was more cardio than I expected, so I wanted to get in cardio shape, which I have always naturally resisted, certainly at this level. I have been running 3 times, gently at first, ran a quarter lap and walked the rest. 1/16 of a mile I ran? The things that seem to be contributing to this are, in order of perceived effectiveness for me, low sugar, and only high quality like See's (or my wife's home made chocolate which just might be better) when I cheat, New Chapter Candida Take Care, 1 in the morning and two at night, although it's expensive and now I take one at night, home made yogurt, made strong with lots of liquid, to mix about a tablespoon with a glass of milk for a cultured starter, Natrol digest support enzymes, 2 or 3 with a meal, food grade hydrogen peroxide, 3-8 drops, that 25 drops I read about is hard to get down, in a cup of water, with a few drops of grapefruit seed extract on an empty stomach. My lungs finally don't feel undersized, whatever made them feel kind of smaller is not there. Not that I was short of breath, but running is less trouble, running on the track around the rink helps, a little softer than cement so I don't get shin splints. Anyway, there is the short version. Seriously, much better, shoveled the driveway when normally I would need more pressure to get around to it, etc. Hope it helps someone. It's still legal. Oh, cognitive behavioral therapy seems to change my base response to life in general so nutrition isn't fighting fear/anxiety/discomfort, so my food is used for me more than it has been in the past. Discomfort affects digestion and fear is a demon that can steal as many nutrients as I can throw at it, so it's nice to have that reasonably cleared. CBT, broad topic I guess, but the only kind I know works really well, about 10 minutes a day there.

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I swear, I hate my thyroid.

I just got labs back and discovered I have no TSH, which means my thyroid is not producing any hormones. My Free T4 was under range, which is also hypothyroidism.

Unfortunately, the doc did not do a Free T3, which surprised me, as it is actually the active thyroid hormone in your system.

I KNOW my thyroid is directly connected to my CFS and FM. I have fought doctors about this for years, but in the end, if when I found one who would work with me, nothing worked.

All of the body's hormones must be in good sync, and it is almost impossible to make this happen for some people. You are hypothyroid, you take T4, and it inhibits your adrenals. You take hydrocortisone, and it affects everythihng else.

I finally stopped hating doctors when I realized they really were doing the best they could with a disease system that is not well-understood.

I used to be hyper-thyroid--too much thyroid hormone, and drank the radiation to inhibit part of my thyroid. I have ALWAYS regretted that, as I was only minimally hyperthyroid, and believe it would have evened out as I got older, since many women with thyroid disease eventually become hypothyroid as they age.

However, I did have the treatment and afterwards, I gained 30 pounds in a few months, I had to make myself breathe, the more I exercised the weaker I got, and other classic symptoms of hypothyroidism. Yet my endocronologist said I was fine.

I was NOT fine.

Fifteen years later I asked for a copy of my labs and this doctor's note, only to discover my TSH DID indicate hypothyroidism, and he had even noted such!


So, since we were on the subject earlier, I thought I'd check in.

Robert, I enjoyed the article on Oprah's thyroid. I never watch her anymore, so was not aware of her problem.

I knew about everything he explained with the thyroid, but have never heard of the hyper . . . I don't remember the spelling, and I don't want to look it up right now. But I'll look into that some more.

It would be helpful if the doctor were less caustic. That's really distracting.


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My wife has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

If anyone would like to get in touch with her, I think she could really use your support. She just found out about it.

Hi Tom,'s Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is an extremely good site for people with CFS, as there is a lot of support from people newly diagnosed to those who have had it for years.

I will warn you, there is SOOOO much information, it can be overwhelming to someone just diagnosed, sick, and not able to think very well.

But, if she were to spend a few minutes a day there, or lots of time with the supporters, it would make her feel less alone.

Also, you can PM me anytime and I'd be glad to talk to her.


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Share on other sites I don't think I have Chronic Fatigue as I just spent 6 days in the hospital and may be diagnosed with Crohns Disease. Bummer cause I can't eat anything but broth for the next week! grumble my family gets to eat the dinners from the RS.

BUT.....don't feel bad for me. I successfully smuggled out the best pair of hospital scrubs! Ya Baby!!! I am feeling a little Thelma and Louise...something that is good for the soul occasionally, don't you think?

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Share on other sites I don't think I have Chronic Fatigue as I just spent 6 days in the hospital and may be diagnosed with Crohns Disease. Bummer cause I can't eat anything but broth for the next week! grumble my family gets to eat the dinners from the RS.

BUT.....don't feel bad for me. I successfully smuggled out the best pair of hospital scrubs! Ya Baby!!! I am feeling a little Thelma and Louise...something that is good for the soul occasionally, don't you think?

Aw hun (((hugs))) At least you know what it is now. My brother has Crohn's. I could go on and on about diet and such but I won't. :)

Take care and again, do your research. Learn what you can do to help yourself feel better.


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For Crohn's, if I can't directly recommend the SCD diet, it is something I would be aware of. Pecanbread is one site, t's Breaking the Vicious Cycle Web Site - Home is another. A search will bring up lots of info there. A lot of people seem to get better on this. I have Elaine Gotshall's book, a good read, although I never could maintain weight on that diet myself as I understood it and went off it about once a week to have some complex starches to relieve deep muscle aches and rapid weight loss. Maybe I was doing it wrong. I still learned something from it, tried to do it for 3 or 4 months. Bacillus Subtillis and S Boullardii should come to the top of the list for Crohn's, but you could read that in the book too. Jordan Reuben also healed from Crohn's disease, wrote a book and has a supplement line, seems for the whole book, the turning point was the 'dirt' he ate, which was rich in soil based organisms. I have great reason to believe that it's not hopeless at all.

Elphaba, I feel your pain. I seem like a self diagnosing nut, but really it is partly from telling doctors I didn't feel right, they take panels, tell me I'm fine. I know I'm not, or certainly wasn't at the time. I have kept the worst symptoms to a minimum with low sugar and gluten free, now the cranberry extract seems to add to the success. Without that, before I learned that, struggling for consciousness in the afternoons. No fun. If nothing was required of me, I was laying on the floor or in bed, very familiar with headrushes when I stood up. I sort of gave up on doctors for this a long time ago. Panels are fine, I'm healthy, how about an speed (time release ritalin, forget the brand name)? It makes you edgy? Well, this class of drugs may not be for you. How about an antidepressant? It won't hurt you, honest. Root cause, doctor. I need my brain my whole life, can't be letting this eat my brain while I take your meds to feel better while the problem lurks beneath. Root cause. Forget the leaves.

For thyroid, my wife has done fine on a couple of thytrophin per day, recommended by a naturopath, so not completely self diagnosed there. I like Iosol iodine and dl-phenylalanine. Tyrosine is supposed to be good, but I only feel results from dl-phenylalanine. It's a good component for thyroid, dopamine, epinephrine and norepinephrine. Of course, going gluten free somehow balanced something that takes away my need to keep taking that, feels more like a stimulant now. For actual measurements though, my wife was low thyroid and the thytrophin from Standard Process brought her back to normal range when for whatever reason, escalating dosages of synthroid seemed to keep her at the same spot, like the thyroid was determined to keep that level. Go figure. Even now though, I'm not really on task, should be studying. :) Hurts my brain less to do this than burn that stuff into it.

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Thank you Robert. I have been beside myself trying to figure out what is wrong with me. I still wonder if Chronic Fatigue is a player or if my hormones are just whacked. But Monday and Tuesday this week I felt so good......I mean good!! Like better than I have felt in 18 months! My mood was happier. I was weird to feel such a shift! So I was feeling like maybe the drugs were really helping and then woke up this morning feeling horrible and emotional and exhausted again. UGH. When I got this diagnosis, wow! I was just blown away and scared because I don't at this point know how serious something like that is. But I am glad to hear of resources and I am starting my reading list. :) I hope i can find the right doctors to help me figure out the whole puzzle. I am learning that perhaps I was really bad at the self diagnosis thing. :)

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Aw hun (((hugs))) At least you know what it is now. My brother has Crohn's. I could go on and on about diet and such but I won't. :)

Take care and again, do your research. Learn what you can do to help yourself feel better.


Applepansy!!! You have a heart as big as Texas! And I love you.

Thank you for all your support. And I love the little mother hen in there too. ;)

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OK all, I feel a little wordiness coming on, even for me. I have felt it somewhat of a disservice to not mention success I have had lately in more detail so you can see side effects of something good and see more first hand why I say what I say and see how I see. Hopefully it will seem more real and less left field after this.

First, the self diagnosis thing, it's tricky and we fail a lot, but on the other hand, the doctors didn't get it right until it was very serious. You have known for years but they couldn't pinpoint it. Now they can. It's Crohn's. But it wasn't before, just 'something' you knew about and they couldn't identify. We will now diagnose it, Crohn's disease, stare blankly while drugging it, and hoping to extend your life in comfort a little. Reactive medicine. Makes me kind of crazy, especially when what I have thought for a while finally I have found success in, makes it less theoretical. I bought products designed for a purpose. I did not make them in my home lab with knowledge only known to me that people should rightly question. We have the technology. People made this because research suggested these can help. This could have been averted, in my little world at least. But it can be greatly alleviated or cured, in my little world at least. This is another reason I want to catch 'whatever it is' in me, before a doctor can tell me its MS or equivalent bank busting life drainer.

As far as the hormones/psychological/what else could it be, let me tell you about a round of success I have had in more detail, so you can see how I am considering that it is hormonal, yes, but not fixed with hormone therapy, and physical, yes, but fixed with psychological elements. Everything seriously has been a curve ball for me, and this has worked reliably inside my family. If I am repeating, I will put more detail here so you can see how the results I have experienced have had an affect on how I currently see things. If this isn't an answer exactly, it is a different point of view where I think I hit the root and lots of top level symptoms evaporated.

I have mentioned quite a few things on this post, but not being a rich man, and seeing that every little symptom has an herb or drug, for about $500/month I could theoretically be well if I just took all the stuff on the natural side. Many of them I have tried singly with success. Money aside, this still doesn't 'ring' true for true health for me. I know the ring of truth is sometimes theoretical and not helpful, but let me put down recent success, and hopefully it can show some of the curve balls and optical illusions.

I have been many times on the road where something works... for a day, like the drugs you mention above, Misshalfway. More vegetables. Organic beef. Organic vegetables. Gluten free was the first thing that reliably took an edge off, but seemed to make my joints hurt for the first few months doing it, a trade off that was worthwhile at the time. Certain vitamin mixes, better than most, more reliable than most, but ultimately ended up feeding the 'beast' and needing to cycle off. Cardboard and various candida diets, good for my brain, bad for my body, tended to have rapid weight loss. So I would cycle back and forth with enough positive feedback to keep Candida on the radar because of that type of success, but not know how to deal with it and maintain physical weight and energy. If something worked, it was always a two edged sword, cost too much and worked a little, worked but weight dropped off, some trade off at every step.

A relative who I can relate very well to, has taken the psychological route, viewing it as depression that caused fatigue where I had viewed it as fatigue that could cause depression. He took antidepressants that made him hallucinate, others made him happier with his situation, but did not help him find the motivation to get out. So he was getting similar results on the psychological path that I was getting on the nutritional path. My radar has always steered me clear of medications, although I have taken ritalin, gave me better concentration at a price but ultimately my whole being rejected, synthroid, which as noted above, worked GREAT for about a week, then felt like I had some precipitate that felt like magic sand, if anyone remembers that stuff, floating in my blood, so I went off that without further questions and felt nothing to pursue there. Did I mention that heightened judgmentalism and frustration with the failure of others was on the list of symptoms? Touches on the temper sector. Also have tried time release ritalin, found myself being more 'kind', shoveling lots of driveways in the winter while not 'feeling' sped up... :) but even that wore off to irritability, why, stimulating a burned up nervous system would make me irritable I don't know... Wellbutrin was next, and I was about ready at the time, but my relative on the psychological route that I felt was closely related enough to think I was similar to, his psychologist has said Wellbutrin was number 25 on a list of about 25 things he would try, combined with coworkers who had major stomach pain and permanent vision change on that one, was happy with generic prozac. So, that wasn't encouraging on top of the fact that my 'radar' still said no, and that hadn't led me wrong at that level. I give the above as a short backdrop for success listed below.

I refinanced my house, pretended like I was going to save my money on the payment I didn't have to make in December, but also was ready for another round against this 'thing'. I called a couple of health food stores, told them I wanted another swing on this shadow Candida, see if I could connect with this invisible enemy, and clear the cloud and the fatigue. They mumbled about different products, I have had that vibe, not enough of a response to make me want to try any of them, but also they all seemed to go on about this New Chapter Candida Take Care that I mentioned above. Strange. I haven't heard anything reviewed that glowingly. How much does it cost? Yikes! Currently 25% off? Well, let's give it a try. If it hits the root, it could be the best thing I did in a long time. The cloud needs to be removed. I tried other things in this same time frame, and I could comment on them, but the words would be wasted as the result is much smaller and any benefit from them only builds on this and is not maintained without it.

So, first, me. Sleep is better, more complete, I have a better shot of waking up better. I get things done, simple things while thinking about them rather than, say, psyching myself up to clean the breakfast table. You know, easy stuff. Less wandering around. No brain cloud. Memory is not being rearranged causing me to get things backwards reliably. Faulty x-ray vision is repaired, I can see what is in front of me rather than requiring my wife to point out the obvious, and a physical emotion that contributes to the OCD cycle which I couldn't have easily pointed to before it cleared. Cleared! Not sure if it was peaceful or an eerie silence, but certainly a nice change. I am out now so waiting for the next shipment. My wife says my teeth have lightened a few shades.

For my wife, better sleep, thicker hair, better energy, not dragging so much, teeth have cleared and toenails coming in clearer, keep in mind she had no complaints and wasn't looking for anything. I just had her do this because they say it is pointless for one spouse to do it without the other as it will go back and forth. Her skin tone changed, improved, rosacea went down quite a few shades although not gone, all good things.

I have seen 'this' growing on my oldest daughter the most, so I got some for her after I saw what the first bottle was doing for me. She stopped tearing the house apart for candy, cookies, and other snacks after school every day. When at church activities that have goodies, we are no longer finding adults reporting that she has had 5, 6, or 7 cupcakes when we weren't looking. She got candy for Valentine's and didn't eat it in the first 2 minutes of opening it, but saved some for later. Her temper is down, her whininess is down, and the other day while being upset about her homework to the point I couldn't help her, she suddenly just 'felt' like taking one, she mixes it in juice, came back, calm, looked again, said duh, that's the answer, I forgot this part, and calmly got the right answer. WOW!

Finally, the youngest, number 5. She had terrible breath and dirty diapers to match. Other than that, happy, but she wouldn't sleep through the night. As I have reflected, my mom says I was rough to raise, harder than the other 4 combined the way she remembers it, was the last to sleep through the night at 18 months, spit up a lot, so I have had reason to believe this has been with me my whole life. It seems to be a large part of the reason I could seem smart but never do well in school at any grade level, very frustrating to my teachers, not to mention me. Right, back to my youngest. Not sleeping through the night, stinky diapers and bad breath. On a hunch, taking yet another punch at these shadows, hoping to connect, we gave her half in the morning, half at night with half a yo baby yogurt, one a day of each. She loves it. It's part of her morning and night time routine now. After day 3, she slept through the night and has since with few exceptions that I can call normal, she has a cold and is miserable, things like that. Diaper smell and bad breath both cleared up, her temperament wasn't to a point that I was looking for change in that, but those three symptoms cleared.

So, with that experiment with that silly little brand of cranberry extract that causes yeast to let go and pass rather than die and pass, there is no die off, only the benefit of less bad critters eating our food and turning it to poison and making us feel crappy. You can say that here, can't you? Oh, right, my oldest daughter eats less and feels fuller and doesn't get sick right before lunch at school every day either. To have all of these things clear, not requiring a hundred things for a hundred symptoms, takes me more firmly to the parasite point of view, which before I could only consider as a possibility that made enough sense to not drop. I know there are many more parasites than Candida, but finally I find something that doesn't require me to choose between my brain and body, works for my whole family. I would like to give it to all, at about $140/month. Yikes! Might be willing to cut the phone and something else. It's about at that level for me. In any case, lots of success, consistent with my belief that it should be 'boiled down', work on a lot of things, and make a lot of things disappear. The Cognitive Behavioral Therapy on my part allows a behavior retrain when the emotions do cycle back, so they are also cycling down over time. Cranberry extract and parasites. Don't write them off. Parasites, put them closer to front and center. Their whole job is to be subtle and undetected. Detect them. Balance them. Candida belongs in your gut, can't be killed off. Keep it small and in its place. Best of luck to you all, really. My faith is with you. Remember, we're all in this together. It CAN be done.


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Hi, I have been battling hormone issues, my thyroid on the low side, weak immune system, infertility, pms, cold hands and feet, poor sleep, borderline low thyroid, poor ovarian function. FINALLY I feel wayyyy better.

All from going to acupressure and adding lots of dark green veggies to my diet, and doing breathing/meditation exercises in the morning. My hot flashes are pretty much gone, my energy is up, I have energy to exercise, my mood has evened out. And I was never a believer in alternative medicine. But I think Western medicine never looks at your spirit and your nutrition and your body all as one. Doctors just do blood tests and things and throw medications at you.

You are unhealthy for a number of reasons. This Chinese herbologist told me that every month, women lose a lot of blood through menstruation. You need to eat blood-building foods to help your immune system and build your energy and blood supply back up. Your hands and feet are always cold because of your low blood issues. Wear socks all the time, and eat a warm breakfast in the morning, with nothing cold- no cold drinks, cold anything. Eat lots of vegetables and fruit, but every day you need to eat some protein in the am, and a big, large bowl of broccoli or spinach or a dark green veggie, cooked. Every day, do some slow breathing exercises. This gets oxygen into your blood and reduces stress and quiets your mind.

I got a lot of help from the accupressure and from talking to a Chinese herbologist. They believe in Western medicine for a lot of things, too. They are not preaching a cure for everything. But it makes sense to me that women get kind of anemic every month. Also, for PMS, your body knows that it is about to lose a lot of nutrients and go through the stress of your period, so you start getting hungry and tired and craving all these foods because you need more blood-building foods.

Hope this helps,


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I appreciate the previous posts. I am learning a lot. I hope I have something to add that is useful as well. I have thought at times to report here on what I'm learning and recent successes. It is slow. I can't find it in me to give up though. There is always a loose thread to pull at and see where it leads. Sit here and hurt, or pull the loose thread that looks like maybe it will be a way out. I'll pull the loose thread whenever possible. I have pulled at a lot of them. For now, most of my attention is on the parasite model, specifically for now Candida. At first, the low blood sugar model, hypoglycemia, gave a little relief, way slow carbs like vegetables, mild grains. Since, it has the Candida overlay, so I see it as both, and things for both help the other. My big discovery lately is biotin. I knew already that it can help with multiple chemical sensitivity. MCS mainly means the liver is sick of cleaning poisons. Since Candida internally can create these, and chemicals externally can create others that take a similar pathway inside for detoxification, reducing these from every angle available helps, and keeping up the known nutrients that speed up this detox process is also helpful. I have known about Biotin for a long time, but I started running again (I have never done this for more than 2 weeks straight, other forms of exercise last a little longer) that seemed to move junk through and bring on another cold, one of the reasons I stop. Biotin both helps the liver clear poison faster AND keeps Candida from colonizing so there is less to detoxify. What a deal? I looked it up since I was experiencing it and hadn't thought about it in this model. I thought it just worked because it was a B vitamin. When I looked it up, I found this. The Role of Biotin in the Treatment of Candida. Since I experienced it, then read it, it seemed to hit home. Pantethine and biotin, what a team! Of course, the Pantethine is from the coenzyme active B vitamins that I'm such a fan of. Changing my whole makeup is a task though. It is like taking a big ship and holding that rudder through the impulses that would take me off course, hoping I am operating on the right set of facts, and knowing I am succeeding at times because I get worse. During the worse time there is no marker to say this is working, just that what I am doing right led me there, and a day or two later, if I hang on, it's a little brighter on the back side. I seem to be on the way out, for about 3 weeks straight now, and for 5 months straight in other ways. It is a low patient climb that doesn't always seem like it on the way out. I mark part of the start of this current round of progress to the specific carbohydrate diet, which I sort of wasted away on, but also it gave me some markers to pay attention to. Then the Cranberry, biotin seems a valuable addition, only a week I can say it has worked so far, but that is something. Exercise, but I have to leave feeling pretty good, not tired. I have to carefully monitor the level while I'm doing it or I just raise my stress levels and fatigue. That's no good. Easy does it.

Below are my favorites, for now.





Kolorex blended in a shake

Best diet I can figure out in the mean time.


Super B's from Wellness Resources, let me know if there is another like this out there.


CDP Choline

Chromium Polynicotinate

Glandular extract, shotgun kind, a little each, thyroid, adrenal, thymus, a few others.

Omega Gold 3/6/9

Good digestive enzymes

More, many more, but this is a decent little core in my way of seeing things.

Even this post is way over simplified in some ways, I've been busting my head on this for a few years, 21 or more, but I think I am starting to see part of the root of this junk. It's big. It reminds me that I can ride a unicycle. I tried someone else's, and the crank was a different size, so I couldn't just up and ride it. For how complex this is, there is a root that lets me see a bit of the spectrum of this whole thing. But maybe I shouldn't say that. Even at this rate, I told my wife I feel closer than ever to getting over this, which I've fought longer than she's known me, but since it has an element that teases me, it will probably be another decade. I hope not of course. I feel progress though, and that is tremendous. That is largely what I am reporting on here. Possibly at least one person here can find at least one thing I suggest helpful.

For the thyroid stuff, can't remember if I posted here, but even that has a Candida connection. The Candida uses a structure to hold to your intestine (transglutamase in the article below), and the immune system attacks that, and that substance finds its way to the thyroid, and activates antibodies there. I'm sure there are other pieces to this puzzle, but this (Candida and digestive balance) has my attention for now, and it is requires patience and consistency to see if it's useful.

Digestive Alert – Thyroid, Celiac, & Candida | Health and Wellness News

Do I believe spiritual healings can take place? Definitely. When I have prayed and sought healing through that channel or means, the answer seems to be that I ought to learn something and come out wiser for this than just to have a gimme granted by a magic wand, but who knows for sure. Maybe I read it wrong and could have been over this years ago. This is clearly the path I am taking. It certainly has given me a point of view to see things from.

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I've learned a big lesson this year in regards to physical health...

Last October’s General Conference - President Dieter F Uchdorf

The Importance of Hope

“Hope is one leg of a three-legged stool, together with faith and charity. These three stabilize our lives regardless of the rough or uneven surfaces we might encounter at the time.”

“Hope has the power to fill our lives with happiness. Its absence—when this desire of our heart is delayed—can make “the heart sick.”

“This kind of hope is both a principle of promise as well as a commandment, and, as with all commandments, we have the responsibility to make it an active part of our lives and overcome the temptation to lose hope. Hope in our Heavenly Father’s merciful plan of happiness leads to peace, mercy, rejoicing, and gladness. The hope of salvation is like a protective helmet; it is the foundation of our faith and an anchor to our souls."

Why is there Despair?

2 Nephi 2:11 “For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so… righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor evil...”

President Faust said in October 99 Conference: “Everybody in this life has their challenges and difficulties. That is part of our mortal test. The reason for some of these trials cannot be readily understood except on the basis of faith and hope because there is often a larger purpose which we do not always understand. Peace comes through hope.”

…president Uchdorf's talk, “The adversary uses despair to bind hearts and minds in suffocating darkness. Despair drains from us all that is vibrant and joyful and leaves behind the empty remnants of what life was meant to be. Despair kills ambition, advances sickness, pollutes the soul, and deadens the heart. Despair can seem like a staircase that leads only and forever downward...

...Hope, on the other hand, is like the beam of sunlight rising up and above the horizon of our present circumstances. It pierces the darkness with a brilliant dawn. It encourages and inspires us to place our trust in the loving care of an eternal Heavenly Father, who has prepared a way for those who seek for eternal truth in a world of relativism, confusion, and of fear”.

How do we find hope? “Hope cometh of faith”

Ether 12:6“…And I would show unto the world that afaith is things which are bhoped for and cnot seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no dwitness until after the etrial of your faith.

7 For it was by faith that Christ showed himself unto our fathers, after he had risen from the dead; and he showed not himself unto them until after they had faith in him;...

8 But because of the faith of men he has shown himself unto the world, and glorified the name of the Father, and prepared a way that thereby others might be partakers of the heavenly gift, that they might hope for those things which they have not seen.

9 Wherefore, ye may also have hope, and be partakers of the gift, if ye will but have faith."

I started with just praying every day for God to help me to be happy, regardless of my situation, and he paved the way. I still have bad days and days that are really hard, but they are 1/2 the time they used to be. The mind and spirit are very powerful aids for our bodies.

Christ has the answers...I needed to fully rely on Him. It has made a monumental difference for my own personal health, and has really taught me the power behind a Christ-centered life.

John 14:27

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."

2 Ne. 31:20

"...Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life."

God bless.

Edited by funkymonkey
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