Discrimination for having not served a mission


anotherbrick
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Well, what you said here is simple to grasp. Now, please finish your thought. You mentioned polygamy before. So, if polygamy were reinstated, then what are you saying? That's the part where you lost me. How does living in a polygamous society differ in choosing a mate than in a monogamous society.

It's a math concept, nothing more!:rolleyes:

The poor guy only has to find one gal who he can marry. That's all. The only time he'd have to worry about the opinions of a lot of gals is if he had the goal of getting 10 wives -- then he'd have to worry about the prevailing attitude in a singles ward or in a stake or the entire LDS world!

One shouldn't be all that hard to find.

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This is true, but most people who discriminate against non-RM's don't care to know if you "couldn't" or "wouldn't" go on a mission. They just know that you didn't.

And if they discriminate on such details then it's good to find out now rather than later. A person who demands a RM is probably someone who cares more about symbolism and status rather than substance. Personally, I think what's on the inside counts a lot more than something like if you went on a mssion or not.

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This is true, but most people who discriminate against non-RM's don't care to know if you "couldn't" or "wouldn't" go on a mission. They just know that you didn't.

I don't know about "most." Perhaps that's true in Utah, but not of most people I know.

And if they discriminate on such details then it's good to find out now rather than later. A person who demands a RM is probably someone who cares more about symbolism and status rather than substance. Personally, I think what's on the inside counts a lot more than something like if you went on a mssion or not.

Girls who demand an RM have (1) been taught to do so by their Young Women leaders, and (2) often (not always, but often) haven't served a mission themselves and don't realize that sometimes it doesn't make much difference.

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Been there and done that. Joined the church right before I turned 20.. as I was fixing to start a program in school too. Going on a mission wasn't an option really.. although given the chance I probably would have stayed where I was.

Just ignore them. I've met girls who value mission experience over a highschool education.. there's no reasoning with them. These same girls expect to get married to recently returned RMs asap without thought of financial situations.

Keep at it. Dating really isn't all that.. it's a headache more often than not. :huh:

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Look - mission or no you're still a righteous member of the Church and if soem of the women you've been trying to date can't see that then have faith - she's out there. I'm a convert to the church (1997) and I never served a mission. I'm married in the temple to a wonderful woman and she saw me for who I was.

Never give up my brother - endure to the end! Take this opportunity in your life to meet as many women (member and non member) as possible and become good friends with them. Just make sure that the non-member women you meet are clear that your faith is a huge part of your life. If they cannot accept the LDS faith or at the very least listen with an open mind to the missionaries, then she's not the one for you - still be her friend but keep it just friends. You'll find that the one for you will appear when you least expect it.

Keep the faith brother!

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What I don't understand is how some women will hold men to a bar they don't hold themselves to?

As in serving a mission.

Keep on keepin' on, man. You'll find yourself a woman.

I think it has much to do with the expectations of the LDS church itself. Young men are almost commanded to serve mission, while for young sisters it is optional, if you are not married yet.

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Hi Anotherbrick--

I don't know that I can help much with the marriage/mission thing--like some of the others who have commented here, I haven't experienced much discrimination myself, though I don't doubt that it exists--perhaps in some areas more than others. (I served a mission but ended up marrying a girl who wouldn't have cared whether I did or not.)

A greater concern than the mission thing is the comment that your faith in the Church is decreasing. I think I can help you a bit more with this. You see, I am also Asperger and have struggled greatly with the feeling of being out of place at church. It reached a crisis point a few months ago when I began feeling like I was a "black eye" on the church, that I had nothing to contribute, and that the pain of feeling out of place was greater than any benefit the Church had to give.

The one thing that kept me in the Church was the Book of Mormon. I held on to that, and before long came to realize that I had been equating the social aspects of the Church with the gospel. Paradoxically, as I placed a greater priority on the gospel than on the social church, I saw that I did have much to contribute, and that there is a place in the Church for everybody. I still struggle with fitting in, but it may be that people like you and me are meant to stand out instead.

Please don't let this drive you from the Church. It's painful, I know, but stay close to the gospel and serve the best you can. Cling to the doctrine of the Atonement, and know that Christ knows how you feel--intimately so. If you have a tendency to isolate yourself, try to reach out more. I've had to learn that I teach people how to treat me, and that while it's difficult, little things like smiling and saying "hello" to people can go a long way. I still have trouble looking people in the eye, but I am working on that, and they respond to my efforts. I suspect that in the long run, things like that will attract young women more than the mission experience itself.

Finally, maybe you are trying too hard to find a girl. I've learned that when I relax a bit and stop worrying so much about how I come across to others, they are naturally drawn to me. (After all, by assuming that people are judging me, I am really judging them.)

I realize that this has gone on a while. If you want to send me a personal message, I'll be happy to respond to you off the thread. Keep up hope! The Lord loves us--all of us--and will bless us if we ask Him in faith.

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I'm cheating...haven't read the thread at all. But...the title gets me to wonderin'...do RM's, and perhaps some too-stereotypical members get a kind of "reverse discrimination," for being "Molly" "TBM" or any other acronym for one who is allegedly too LDS to be real.

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I'm cheating...haven't read the thread at all. But...the title gets me to wonderin'...do RM's, and perhaps some too-stereotypical members get a kind of "reverse discrimination," for being "Molly" "TBM" or any other acronym for one who is allegedly too LDS to be real.

I think that they sort of do in the areas that aren't predominately Mormon. Where I live (central Illinois) the LDS community seems very different than the one in Idaho or Utah. The Mormons in my ward are far more mainstream than the ones living in largely LDS communities. I know that on the occasion we have families from SLC stay in our area while on their way to Nauvoo, and it's kind of a culture shock for them. We must seem really secular to them, and they seem kind of out-of-touch to us.

We had a group of college-aged sisters from SLC come stay with some of our wardies a couple of weeks ago.....wow. They were something else. Lol.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a poor treatment of those who are deemed "too Mormon".

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I can enlighten you on how to change your behavior. The next time you ask an LDS girl on a date, and she refuses because you didn't go on a mission, here's what you do: Fall on your knees, face the sky, and shout "thank you God for showing me right upfront that this girl has a problem with unrighteous judgement and isn't ready to date seriously!"

LM

While that might be funny to onlookers, I seriously doubt it would help his reputation and future propsects. :D

Oh, I don't know about that Wingnut - It just may kick-start a rather shy gal that is in hearing distance and get her attention. It may also severely humble the other gal.

AnotherBrick, I agree with you that there are way too many sisters who are hung up with catching themselves a returned missionary. Just as there are way too many sisters who go to college to catch themselves a husband.

Be yourself, keep asking the gals out.Stay true to your morals and to the gospel. Remember- you may have to kiss a lot of toads :eek: before you find your Eternal Companion.

Hmmm, before you ask a gal out, why don't you ask her if SHE is a returned missionary? And/Or ask her if she really believes that being a returned missionary is the End All- Be All reason to marry? If it will absolutely guarantee a great marriage? If it will guarantee the RM will remain steadfast & faithful to Church and his marriage vows? If she answers yes, drop to your knees, look to the sky and thank God at the top of your voice that He has shown you a shallow and unworthy gal. Then go find a gal who will answer your questions with several no's and then offer up her own reasons for marrying. If they are close to or duplicate yours, then get her to the Temple!

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Another LDS misconception: 23 is not the end of the world when it comes to marriage:). Don't worry about marriage and focus on something else. It might help connect you to other likeminded people.

As has been pointed out before all you need is one who loves the gospel. You are desirous but have not found the one that is for you yet. Your time will come someday. Wait for the spirit to help you choose.

I must disagree with above posts. Be wary of settling for just anyone to get married. If done correctly your future marriage should last forever. Be certain they share the same commitment towards spiritual things as you. Marriage is like a three way commitment when done correctly. It is between you, your partner and God. If your partner wants to eliminate one piece of that triad there will be problems

If you want to follow the gospel you will have to discriminate when it comes to the choice of your partner. "Choose ye this day whom ye will serve". Picking someone outside of the gospel may help you get married but that may be all it does. There are many single members of the church not by choice who have done much work for God that they might not otherwise have been able to do. One sister that comes to mind was in the Relief Society presidency. (In the Ensign a while back there was an article about her). She was a strength and comfort particularly to the single sisters I knew.

You have the right desires in your mind and God knows your thoughts. Continue to "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you." Trust the Lord and do what you should be doing. Blessings will flow.

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Dating a nonmember in some sort of immature rebellion against "the church" is a fine idea.

Look, people aren't perfect anywhere. It's not the organization of the church's fault that some of those young women are so ridiculous. Do they know why you didn't serve a mission? If a girl knew why you didn't and still wouldn't date you, she'd be discriminating against your high-functioning asperger's, not your non-RM status. And that would make her an even bigger loser.

I'd take your mind off of dating a little if it gets you thinking about dating outside the church just to prove a point. That's dating for the wrong reason. Which will just lead to marrying for the wrong reason.

And I second whoever said that 23 is not the end-all age for marriage.

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I can sympathise with you probably more than most on this board, anotherbrick. I also have aspergers syndrome. For those who don't know what it is, it's mainly a lack of social skills. They learn social skills intellectually rather that intuitively. Mentally there is nothing unusual. People with aspergers syndrome are often of above average intelligence and often excel in their career. Albert Einstein himself had aspergers as well as Isaac Newton. They also have a primary area of interest, and they tend to become obsessed with this interest to the extent they often excel in it. Mine happens to be I.T (I work as an I.T technician as well). The reason for this is because it replaces interaction with other people as interaction is difficult for us. Other common "primary areas of interest" include music and science. None of them involve socialising.

As for the mission, I did serve one, but came home after 10 months. I served a service mission, but, as is a common trait with aspergers, I had difficultly accepting rules that I didn't agree with. It didn't cause much of a problem with other people and certainly no arguments, but it bothered me to the extent that ended up coming home. Plus I have difficultly with the idea of being banned from anything to do with technology due it being my "primary area of interest" (see above), I struggled with this more than a so called "normal" person would. Do I get discriminated against? Of course. But I don't really care that much about it either though. People don't understand the condition until they have had it. People say I am addicted to computers and technology which is why I ended up coming home... the symptoms are very similar, yes, but it's not an addiction. You can overcome an addiction, you cannot overcome aspergers syndrome. Plus, due to my so called "addiction" I now have a job which I really enjoy and effectively get paid to do what I enjoy doing. So it's not entirely a bad thing. People at church also come to me to fix their home computers and sometimes I get more money out of it if they insist on paying me (I usually don't accept payment).

So make the most of what you have and stop worrying about what you don't.

Edited by Mahone
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I can sympathise with you probably more than most on this board, anotherbrick. I also have aspergers syndrome. For those who don't know what it is, it's mainly a lack of social skills. They learn social skills intellectually rather that intuitively. Mentally there is nothing unusual. People with aspergers syndrome are often of above average intelligence and often excel in their career. Albert Einstein himself had aspergers as well as Isaac Newton. They also have a primary area of interest, and they tend to become obsessed with this interest to the extent they often excel in it. Mine happens to be I.T (I work as an I.T technician as well). The reason for this is because it replaces interaction with other people as interaction is difficult for us. Other common "primary areas of interest" include music and science. None of them involve socialising.

As for the mission, I did serve one, but came home after 10 months. I served a service mission, but, as is a common trait with aspergers, I had difficultly accepting rules that I didn't agree with. It didn't cause much of a problem with other people and certainly no arguments, but it bothered me to the extent that ended up coming home. Plus I have difficultly with the idea of being banned from anything to do with technology due it being my "primary area of interest" (see above), I struggled with this more than a so called "normal" person would. Do I get discriminated against? Of course. But I don't really care that much about it either though. People don't understand the condition until they have had it. People say I am addicted to computers and technology which is why I ended up coming home... the symptoms are very similar, yes, but it's not an addiction. You can overcome an addiction, you cannot overcome aspergers syndrome. Plus, due to my so called "addiction" I now have a job which I really enjoy and effectively get paid to do what I enjoy doing. So it's not entirely a bad thing. People at church also come to me to fix their home computers and sometimes I get more money out of it if they insist on paying me (I usually don't accept payment).

So make the most of what you have and stop worrying about what you don't.

I can't see the original post for this, but know what aspergers is. I think with members we are all very human and tend to put others down to feel good about ourselves. I avoid doing that like the plague, but am not above doing it either. I tend to stay away from cliques out of distrust of what I call "gang mentality" too. The point is, though, that if this question is about being judged which I have a problem with for no good reason either (just sensitive) you have to just know yourself you did or are doing your best. I have a pretty severe bad back. I am not in a wheelchair and don't LOOK disabled, but I am very limited and do not serve in Relief Society as a typical meal carrying server :o I serve in other ways that aren't visible in the same way and have felt one of our past RS presidents was judgmental. I think she had the same perception from me about other things herself, though. (She is not married in the temple). I didn't judge her, but she perceived me as doing it. So many times we just plain misunderstand or feel defensive when we don't do things the typically perfect way. I believe in the old Indian saying that you can't judge a man till you've walked a mile in his moccasins. Something we should all remember.

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This one hits home close to my heart.

I joined when I was 18, almost 19. I had been an active part of the Church for a while but never could decide if it was right for me. Then during Fall Conference in 1997, I felt inspired and knew it was right to join. I am the only member in my family and to most of them the Church seems odd from "reports" they hear.

Before my Baptismal water had even dried, I was starting to get the hints and pressure about going on a mission. Then about 6 months later it all blew up where I was told by the girls in the ward during Sunday school that I had to go on a mission and that if I did not I would never marry a good woman and I did not love Jesus.

I left Church that Sunday in tears. These were girls I considered my friends who had stabbed me in the back. The Bishop (whos daughter was one of the girls) saw me and tried to stop me from getting in the car but I left and did not come back for a long time. After that I had nothing to do with those supposed friends anymore but I heard they were not sorry about it at all but rather were just "telling me the truth".

Eventually I started to attend my ward again but it was never the same. I got a lot of snide comments about serving a mission from peers as well as adults. Needless to say, the more this went on the less I attended Church.

So I moved away for School a few years later. The ward there was great. I started to attend more often again and met my future wife. We were sealed in the Nashville Temple back in 2002 and have been happliy married since. Nobody here has any issue at all that I never served a mission.

All of this turned me to a very important lesson about the Church and the members of the Church. The Church is perfect in every way being the Church Jesus established but it is run by inperfect beings and so it goes without saying that the members are not perfect.

In the end if there is some stuck up girl that is not interested in you because you did not serve a mission, think of it as her doing you a favor because chances are you would not want to be with a loser like her in the first place. When the time is right, I am sure Heavenly Father will show you the right person to be with, a person that will love you the way you deserved to be loved.

Good luck and God Bless, I pray that everything will work out just fine for you. Whatever you do, stay strong in the Church and just remember that the Church is perfect while the members are not.

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I have seen this and heard young women actually say it.

It shows their immaturity, lack of wisdom, lack of knowledge in living in the real world, their parents taught it to them and their stiff necks!

There are many valid reasons a young man does not serve a mission other than not being worthy.

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