How do I live with myself?


Twospiritdancer
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I have been faced with what I would call the most difficult challenge, I would not wish on my worst enemy. I have asked the how's, when's and why me's, and find my heart breaks everyday.

To cut a very long story short..... I am married and I'm gay..... I did not wake up on morning and decide I wanted to be like this, to be hated, to hate myself, to destroy my family, be depressed..... suicidal.... No, I definitely did not choose this. Now I have to live with myself.

I have been excommunicated, but I love the church and all it's teachings. I love the gospel and the guidance it brings. I know the church to be true, I believe in Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and I believe in eternal families.....

I know right from wrong and not wish to be trashed, but would appreciate some insight on this. I want to love as well as be loved, and I want to live the gospel at the same time..... but I cannot have both..... how do I live with myself?

Where does this leave me?

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Let me mention that excommunication is not about a certain length of time, but about a change of heart.

You need to become honest with God about things. Posting here will not really be that helpful to you.

How long ago were you excommunicated?

What steps have you taken towards rebaptism?

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Guest DeborahC

I'll tell you what I told my gay son:

God does not make mistakes. You are his PERFECT, beautiful, child, and he loves you. We all have crosses to bear in this life and this is yours.

Does your wife know?

What does she say about this?

Do you have children?

Choose what brings YOU true happiness, for I believe it is HIS will that we live happy, full lives.

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being gay doesn't bring excommunication. intimate abstinance, if you are single, is required from every member in our church. There are people I know who have never married and are still virgins and will remain so until death unless they marry ........and some of them are in their 50's and 60's. There are many widows and widowers who are chaste now that their spouses are gone. It's a matter of choice and what you believe to be right. Repentance is a principal for everyone.

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Guest JHM-in-Bountiful

I hope some of these words may give you some comfort. I'm also gay, but have never been married or have any children. I "knew" I was different as early as of the age of six. In my teens & early 20's I tried dating girls. There was not one moment of attraction towards the opposite sex. In 1989 I joined the church. One of my hopes was that a miracle would happen and my feelings would change. I soon found out that was not going to happen. I have social anxiety disorder and depression. All of those issues resulted in me eventually having my name removed from the church records. That action happened in 2001. By this time I was still living at home due to my illnesses. I never did come out to my family when living with them. In 2002 I was awarded disability income and soon moved out on my own. I was free from home and from a very judgemantal church. In other words, I was able to live a gay lifestyle. The lifestyle was very dangerous. From a person with social anxiety disorder, that did not inpeed my desires. Eventually I found a partner. For some reason, I never really found true happiness. The relationship ended and we were just friends. By early 2007, I was back to "meeting" several people. In fact my physical needs had deleloped into a full blown addiction through men and the internet. Actually that addiction had it's roots starting back in 1987.

In 2007, I finally came out to my mother, a non-church member. She had no clue about me. In June, the LDS side of my family had a reunion in Utah. I attended some church related family activities. I felt the Holy Ghost. I knew that was what I had been missing all those years. Towards the end of the reunion, I finally broke down and told my family. They did not approve of my lifestyle but still loved me. Those last two days in Salt Lake City was one of the hardest times in my life. My mind was in full motion and I did not know what to do. I spent some alone time around temple square. There I saw a copy of the LDS family proclamation. It was one of the most painful things I had ever read. :( At one point I almost walked in front of a UTA TRAX train to end everything. THen I remembered, what my family said to me. I can be forgiven and return to the church. However that means I would have to live a celibate life. During the Millennium I would have a fully restored body. Also I would have an opportunity to have a wife for all eternity.

I've read LDS books ofaccounts on pre-mortality. There seems to be a common theme that all of us choose some of the trials we experience here on Earth. Based on the books and what my family has told me, being gay is my trial. The summer of 2007, I started the repentance process. I stopped "meeting" men, stopped using the dark side of the internet, started attending church, and became involved in the addiction recovery program which is run by the church. There was a one year waiting period for my re-baptism. On july 12, 2008 my father baptized me and one of my brothers gave the blessing of the holy ghost. My priesthood status was restorred to an Elder and I got to attend a baptism session at the Winter Quarter's temple on Omaha,NE.

I'm so happy to have the church back in my life. I'm no longer living the gay lifestyle. I'm still gay though. That will never change. In fact I'm still waiting for a small meteor to hit me in the head so I won't have to endure the isolation. It's gets really lonely at times. My LDS family does not live near me. My ward family (for 1 1/2 years) now still doesn't really know me. I only see them 3 hours a week. Constant prayer and being active in church callings helps me keep holding on to the iron rod.

I also want to mention that i do know some gay members of the church. Alot of them have followed different paths. One man on this site came out to the church and his family. He was disfellowshipped and is undergoing a divorce. Some of them have chosen to totally leave the church and pursue their happiness. They seem to be happy living their own way of life. Others are still in the closet, married and have children. I think there may be a lds.net member who is married and the entire family knows about his struggles about being gay. He is happy being married and having children. I've never spoken to him though.

Each person who goes through this trial, handles it differently. I chose to come back to the church. No matter what happens in your life, ALWAYS REMEMBER HEAVENLY FATHER LOVES YOU. THIS LIFE IS JUST A BRIEF GLIMPSE IN TERMS OF HAVING AN ETERNAL LIFE. I hope this gives you some comfort or looking at the issue from a different perspective. I may use excerpts of this to be part of my testimony that I need to re-submit to this site in the near furture. I saw this in the name of Jesus Christ.

AMEN.:)

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You learn how to live with yourself by knowing that all individual weaknesses are given to us by GOD for our good. There is no accident or luck of the draw. All our lives are carefully thought out by GOD. The path we choose can be very rocky full of thorns and thistles or it can be a path where one is given rest, water and food and prepared for the next life experience. Once you understand this...you can begin to be healed. For the gospel of GOD is a healing GOSPEL- yea A GOSPEL OF OVERCOMING even the WORLD itself. [all things] With Unconditional Love all things are possible. It can remove even the mountains that are before us in our life.

Conditional Love versus Unconditional Love.

Unconditional Love crosses over genders, races. Just as GOD loves us all, we also can learn to love all for who they are. The Love of GOD coupled with simple companionship can be extremely fulfilling. When men/women learn that to inappropriately express love.....in the end it depletes us and leave us empty and fills us with fears. These hopefully will find before they get to the end of their life that it is never worth it. For most though, the lessons only make sense at the end of their life or when they cross over to the other side. When for a time they are finally freed from the lusts of the flesh. However, this is no victory.

Conditional Love is responsible for 99.99% of all divorces. In all cases one will find that the love of self and the fulfilling of our needs to the point where they have usurped unconditional love has led to divorces. It is also responsible for us to not be able to live our marriage covenant with Christ who said ....."I AM Married to YOU"

With unconditional Love we learn to master our desires and our lusts and our actions and to express our love appropriately to all. We learn to rely on God as David did who called Him "Shepherd" and "Helper."

We all have a feminine and a masculine side. The trick is to learn to keep them in balance and to express it appropriately within the Limits God has given us.

With unconditional Love you can have everything that is appropriate for you to have. Joy and happiness is not in expressing our lusts inappropriately. This 'evil' is possible even in a "straight" marriage....As I have said this over time depletes us both physically and Spiritually.....and leaves us open to diseases of the mind and of the body.

All great weaknesses take time...however all men have a Shepherd even a Helper if they wish to have one. All they have to do is ask, seek, and knock with faith.

I hope this helps.

Peace be unto you

bert10

I have been faced with what I would call the most difficult challenge, I would not wish on my worst enemy. I have asked the how's, when's and why me's, and find my heart breaks everyday.

To cut a very long story short..... I am married and I'm gay..... I did not wake up on morning and decide I wanted to be like this, to be hated, to hate myself, to destroy my family, be depressed..... suicidal.... No, I definitely did not choose this. Now I have to live with myself.

I have been excommunicated, but I love the church and all it's teachings. I love the gospel and the guidance it brings. I know the church to be true, I believe in Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and I believe in eternal families.....

I know right from wrong and not wish to be trashed, but would appreciate some insight on this. I want to love as well as be loved, and I want to live the gospel at the same time..... but I cannot have both..... how do I live with myself?

Where does this leave me?

Edited by bert10
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I will respond to this soon, right now I'm about to head out. I fit in the "gay" category of sorts and have been able to deal with it and keep my membership in the church (once I returned to the church after leaving it over this issue.)

Let me say shortly that your testimony is the key to protecting yourself - I'll expound more later.

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Same sex attraction is a difficult thing that can take a lifetime dealing with. It is as difficult as any other predisposition that mortals can have, including to drugs, alcohol, any sexual attraction, etc.

First, recognize that it is not a sin to have this predisposition. It only becomes a sin if you choose to act upon it. This is the same with any other predisposition. A person involved in alcohol or drugs can also be excommunicated, or at least lose a temple recommend. But those who have such struggles, but choose to obey the gospel anyway, are blessed with all the blessings of the gospel in this life, and eternal life in the next.

Learn to obey the gospel. Happiness, true happiness, does not come from giving in to our predispositions, but from denying them, taking up our cross, and following Jesus. It is okay to have the struggle, as long as we are obedient. Have hope that this struggle is not forever, but will be healed in time.

It is okay for someone with such a predisposition to marry a person of the opposite sex. I know several who have wonderful marriages, yet still have this struggle. It is no different than the man who is predisposed to pornography or interest in many women. Any and all of these can be managed, commandments obeyed, and life be generally happy.

Happiness does not come from following these temptations. Happiness comes only in totally following the Lord. Yet, while we struggle, it is not an easy thing to do. It is going against what feels natural. The choice is whether we will follow the inclinations of the natural man, or seek to be a spiritual and holy being, wherein the Spirit of God can fill us with joy, peace, hope, and happiness.

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Beside what is already posted, I commend you brother in being open and honest with what has happened in your life, including in asking for help. I want you to remember, even the greatest among us, as members of Christ's church, faces daily challenges and struggle with our own character flaws and mortal weaknesses. The key here my brother is to understand the true purpose of repentance to receive back that Spirit you tasted before this event in your life.

Having touched and experience anything that is not of the Spirit, will now be part of you for the rest of your mortal life. Question that is always ask, is there forgiveness for me if I choose to do right? Yes! You need to create a list of goals and weakness and post it on a mirror or place that is seen daily. Why? We need to engrain in our soul, here is my weakness and here is my goal. Next, you need to start on the smallest weakness that has affective your soul and easily mastered first. Step by step, you begin to cross off the weaknesses until that goal becomes achievable and in reach for you. You need to remember, time is not important, your desire to repent and do what is right in order to follow the footsteps of the Savior. You can overcome any obstacle in your life you choose to do it. We are the master of ourselves through the help of the Savior. We can choose to be perfect if that is our core desire. Trust me, the Lord will make it happen for you.

Now, the first step before anything, you need to gain knowledge of meaning of repentance and what is necessary in making that first step back to the ‘path of the tree of life as revealed in Lehi’s dream.

Here is the article: LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Meaning of Repentance

May GOD and the Savior support you in providing help in making the first step back to the path.

Warm regards,

Your brother

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You have gotten very good advice from everyone so I won't reiterate.

What I would like you to consider is that everything we do and think changes us physically. This was proven in studies showing brain chemistry in depressed patients. If they had postive thoughts they changed their brain chemistry without meds, while those that continued negative thoughts stillr required meds to make the same change in their brains.

Now Science is proving that our genetic predispositions can be changed by our experiences. I've had this article for a few weeks now and wasn't sure where to post it. I think this may be a good place.

The title of the article is "When DNA is not Destiny" and it was written by Sharon Begley. It was in the December 1, 2008 issue of Newsweek. When DNA is Not Destiny | Newsweek Voices - Sharon Begley | Newsweek.com

(I hope the link works)

The article talks about how our experiences can change personality traits that were previously viewed as Genetic traits and therefore unchangeable. Science is now realizing that even genetic traits can be changed through the things we experience.

Our Gospel Doctrine instructor is a Professor of Biology. He brought the article and shared it with the class and expressed how exciting it is for science to catch up with what we as LDS members already know. Which is our spirit can control the physical. That's what this life experience is all about, learning to have a body and not let it control our spirit.

I testify that our spirits are who we are, our physical bodies are our test. We can overcome the physical. I'm still trying to learn how. . .but I do KNOW it can be done.

I applaud your courage in posting here. I hope you will be as honest with your family as you have been here. Please know you're not alone. We're all going through this mortal life with physical challenges, some more difficult than others. We all can have the Spirit to help us through challenges if we're repenting and trying our hardest to draw closer to the Lord. I use the word WE because none of us is alone in our challenges unless we choose to be.

applepansy

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The article talks about how our experiences can change personality traits that were previously viewed as Genetic traits and therefore unchangeable. Science is now realizing that even genetic traits can be changed through the things we experience.

If muscle cells have memory and the capacity for growth, I had suspected a gene has the ability to do the same. Considering it as intelligence on a lower order, which I attribute it, has the capacity to make changes for better or for worse. If it is the case, it is proven through consistency of experiences; we can make a change to old habitual traits.

Thanks for sharing this article. It is an interesting topic of later discussions when we can find the time to share our thoughts on this subject.

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Heya Twospiritdancer.

My husband thinks I am bisexual because I have experienced physical attractions to females (which I believe stems from some unfortunate childhood experiences). However, I see myself as a straight person. Why define myself as something that I don't want to be? I am a daughter of God who works hard to stay worthy of my Temple Recommend. I am a daughter of God who wants to magnify my callings and to be a good person and to spread hope and joy and where ever possible the Good News that Jesus Christ lives, that He loves us, that He died for us so that no matter how awful our sins are we can always choose to make a change and follow Him on the path to Eternal Happiness.

Our Heavenly Parents love you. Jesus Christ loves you and wants you to be happy.

Ask and it shall be given you, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you. -Matthew 7:7

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. -Epistle of James 1:5

And again, my beloved brethren, I would speak unto you concerning hope. How is it that ye can attain unto faith, save ye shall have hope?

And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise. -Moroni 7: 40-41

And Jabez was more honourable than his brethren: and his mother called his name Jabez, saying, Because I bare him with sorrow.

And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested. - 1st Corinthians 4:9-10

You are in my prayers.

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I'm so sorry about the agony you are going through. I honestly want to extend my prayers towards you, you've got a very tough road ahead of you.

Let me be very clear that your urges are not what will prevent you from eternal life. You didn't choose to feel this way, and there may very well be little you can do to completely diminish it. With that being said, there are homosexuals within the church who are righteous, Christlike and exemplary members. The difference lies in the choices that are made in the midst of these urges. You seriously are not alone, nor are you doomed to a life of misery.

I'm so sorry about the state of your marriage, there are homosexuals who can maintain a celestial marriage, some can not. Your only choice may very well be celibacy, perhaps it is not.

That is a choice that you have to make with the help of heavenly father, nobody else can tell you what will be the easiest path. On one hand, you may feel deception within a straight marriage even if your spouse knows. The celibacy may leave you feeling alone. I'm not going to sugar coat it, neither choice is an easy one to make. You have to decide which path will create a strong relationship with the lord that transcends this earth.

The biggest step to take towards relief is honesty. There is no way you can make it without being HONEST with your friends, family and your family within the church. Some will reject you, others will reach out to help you. You want the latter to understand the fullness of your situation so that they can give you assistance.

The celestial kingdom is NOT out of reach for you. Happiness and peace on this earth is NOT out of reach either. Don't torture yourself, HELP yourself. You deserve the type of happiness that only the lord can provide.

I've been where you are, to a lesser degree. While I can't relate to the enormous gravity of your situation, I can tell you that it's possible to live the way father intended you to live, and still remain happy and fulfilled.

There are online communities who cater to your type of situation and can provide support. Maybe you should look into the Heart to Heart forums? If TomK sees this thread maybe he can let me know if there is a place for you to find comfort there. : )

Please don't give up hope. You are worth so much more than a life of guilt and unhappiness. : )

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Shortly after getting married, I questioned my sexuality. I knew I loved my husband and was attracted to him, but I couldn't keep my mind off of women and was tempted to look at pornography. A death in my family followed shortly, and at the funeral my uncle gave a talk that really struck me, something I needed to hear. He said that some things, we cannot handle alone. We absolutely can't. Because of the atonement, we can surrender them to the Lord and let him take control. I'd never thought of it that way, I thought I had to handle everything. I spent a lot of time praying, handed my problem to the Lord, stopped being on my computer alone and watching movies with sexual things or nudity. It took awhile, but I no longer feel the way I did. I am 100% attracted to my husband and thoughts of women never pop into my head. BUT-I have to avoid the computer, avoid sexual movies, I still have to do my part. See your bishop, pray. The Lord will help you. This cross is one of the hardest to bear, I think. But you can do it.

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This most certainly has proven to be the most worst thing I have ever had to deal with. My struggle came to haunt me a few yrs ago, the questions, the confusion.... ate me up inside. I would do my ironing late at night at the back of my house and just sob my heart out as I prayed and pleaded with the Lord for help and protection. I knew this was too big for me and had no choice but to hand it over to the Lord. I begged for protection, but I'm afraid I got the very opposite. The very fear I prayed to be protected from was placed in front of me as if on a silver platter. I cannot express the fear and panic that ran through me. And to this day I still ask why?..... What did I do wrong that I was not found worthy of the protection I needed so badly????? Anyway, this does not help me in the least, with too many unanswered questions.

I have been to my bishop, he has been great. And my spouse is aware of this too, which is so difficult to watch what it is doing to him.

You know.... sometimes I wish I didn't know so much,..... it would make things so much easier..... I think.

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I understand, twospirit, to a degree. It wasn't that you didn't deserve the protection. Though I laid my problem on the Lord's shoulders, it didn't disappear. I had to CONSCIOUSLY guard my thoughts day and night for a long time. I had to remind myself how much I loved my husband and keep my thoughts away from all things physical. I hardly even glanced at women passing by each day, to keep my mind clear. It takes constant guard on your mind, but the struggle does lessen. For me, it's ended-at least for now. It doesn't for everyone-let me assure you I've moved on to lot's of other trials ;) but keep in mind your husband-you still love him, and you know that. Your thoughts must be on constant guard. Find out what triggers you to start thinking in the patterns that cause you problems. You may try seeing a therapist for this. They're wonderful helping you realize what causes thought patterns and how to better control them. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I don't wish it on anyone.

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Amazon.com: Bob & Rose - The Complete Series: Alan Davies, Leslie Sharp, Robert T Davies: Movies & TV

Have you watched this show? it was written by Russell T Davies (Queer as Folk, Dr Who), and is about a gay man who falls in love and marries a woman. It was written about a friend of his it maybe something to watch with your wife.

It struck a huge cord with me some advice given from my YW leader once was that love+friendship=affection and that is most important because then you don't want to hurt each other, which ties in with Spencer W Kimball's any good man and any good woman can make a marriage work. As Latter Day Saints if we truly listen to our prophets and pay attention to what is taught about love and marriage it is very different to what is usually taught in Western Society, the above show really embodied that, and showed (admittedly as a drama based on a true story) that sexuality whether you are gay, lesbian, bisexual, or something in between, is relatively unimportant when it comes to love and marriage.

I know for myself my husband it doesn't matter if he is male nor female what matters is he is a good man, wise, strong and amazing, I love him and therefore have sex with him because of that not because he is a man. We are taught to have sex with the one we love not automatically the same as the one we lust after or fancy. I have an earlier fiance that physically would blow me away more than my husband, but he isn't a patch on the man I have married. Personally i am probably bisexual because it doesn't matter to me people are either beautiful and attractive or they are not, it doesn't seem to matter whether they are male or female. But I am monogamous so its academic - I love my husband and straying would hurt him so I wouldn't do it.

-Charley

Edited by Elgama
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This is one of the few problems I have always had since learnign about the church. I have only been a member for 5 years and have grown up in a household that taught me that your sexual orientation was simply the way you were born and there was nothign wrong with being gay. I have quite a few gay friends one of which is going to be my bridesmaid at my wedding and recently got engaged to her long time girlfriend and I am soo soo happy for her. I believe that God made us the way we are and intended everyone to be happy to to be able to find love. Love is different for every person and you deserve yours. The important thing to take away here is that htere is a difference between love and lust. Living a Gay lifestyle does not mean you need to be promiscuous but seeking someone who you can truly love and have a deep connection with as well as passion when the realtionship gets to that stage is important. I think that this is a place where the church makes it very difficult for some good faithful members to be part of the religion and is really asking people to choose between the church and their innate happiness.

I say follow your heart.

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I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed this, but I'll share it for you and for others who may read this. In the past few General Conferences, there have been many talks concerning the healing power of the Atonement. While this isn't really anything new, the speakers have begun to go out of their way to specifically mention the fact that Jesus' suffering and death ultimately cancel every possible affliction that we may experience in this life. The Bible tends to focus on things like bodily illness or, in order words, purely physical challenges. However, these talks teach us that illnesses of an emotional nature are covered just as fully. By that, I refer to your depression, suicidal thoughts, etc.

I'll admit that I can't relate to the challenge you have with attraction to others, but I certainly can relate to the challenge of depression. I want to offer you my testimony that God loves you. If what you say about your own testimony is true, then I have to believe that your family loves you as well and, like Heavenly Father, is ready and willing to help. Through them, you can learn to live with yourself. There are other habits and sins that are far more destructive physically and spiritually than being gay. This is not to say that what you are going through is easy or simple, but that you are not alone.

As with any sin, complete conquest over it is something of an ideal that is incredibly hard to achieve in this life. To completely obliterate the desire or impulse to commit sin is probably something that only Christ Himself accomplished. Know that God does not require you to simply ignore this and pretend like it never happened or that it doesn't bother you. Acknowledge it, and do your very best to make progress every day. Rely on your faith in Jesus Christ, and in His ability to tie up the loose ends.

Edited by BackInBrownBeanr
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I say follow your heart.

While following your heart is great and all, when one has a family (spouse and children, I've gathered from the OP) "following your heart" while destroying that, isn't as charming as you make it sound. I'm one who thinks that once you have a spouse and ESPECIALLY children, thinking of them is very important while making life-changing decisions because your life is no longer simply your own. That's just my thought, though.

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Alison wrote: I think that this is a place where the church makes it very difficult for some good faithful members to be part of the religion and is really asking people to choose between the church and their innate happiness.

I say follow your heart.

"Innate happiness"? You know, that is one of the biggest lies Satan pushes forth on us all. Follow your feelings to obtain your "innate happiness." The recent Psychology Today has a good article on Happiness, establishing many of the basic key points of what determines happiness. Know what? Most people get it wrong. And one of the factors towards misery is to follow our feelings towards "innate happiness."

The scriptures teach us what causes and creates true happiness. It isn't in placing ourselves in the middle of the universe, and wanting others to pamper or placate us. It is in denying our own passions and desires, taking up our cross, and bearing it humbly after Christ. Imagine what would have happened if Jesus would have sought after "innate happiness", instead of doing the will of God and suffering through the atonement and crucifixion!

Sex does not equal happiness. No one has stated that a man cannot have male friends, or a woman have female friends. Such has been the case for millennia, with God's blessing. It is the sexual relation part that is the problem. People think that following their animal lust, or even their animal desire to have something that God does not allow, will bring happiness.

3 Nephi 27 explains that there are things of God, man and Satan. Only the things of God bring true and eternal happiness. The things of man and Satan will bring happiness for a time, but then comes the end, and with it comes weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

True Joy only comes through unselfish thought and acts. It only comes in service to others, and helping God create something great out of ourselves. It has nothing to do with whom we are married - unless we choose to follow our own path, rather than the one God has shown us to exaltation.

Rather than giving out a "feel good" mushy sentiment that we all feel sorry for people who have struggles, let's give them true Christian assistance to return back to God. Handing them lies, such as the concept that there's nothing wrong with a gay/lesbian marriage, goes contrary the gospel, the scriptures, the Proclamation on the Family, and the goal of exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom.

Perhaps next time, you can encourage alcoholics to stick to high quality beers and red wines, rather than drink the cheap stuff? I mean, we are seeking "innate happiness" after all, aren't we?

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