Food storage and anti-hoarding laws during "national emergencies"

[GlockGirl]

I recently finished 2 days of govt training in how to properly conduct these house to house searches. It has absolutely nothing to do with confiscation. It was all about rescuing people and preventing additional damage. Those big X's on the front of the house are to protect the searchers and communicate to following groups about the scope of the search, actions taken (like utilities turned off), and things found (like bodies or viscious dogs).

LM

Are you LEO? Just because it isn’t Constitutional doesn't mean it didn't happen.

NOLA Mayor Admits Illegal Gun Confiscation following Katrina; Settles with NRA With One Breath

Suit Filed to Halt New Orleans Gun Seizures

Washington Times - NRA settles suit on gun seizures

(this one even mentions that thousands of weapons were taken from "Abandoned homes"--without actually admitting that they were stolen from law abiding citizens)

There's plenty more material to post.....but you can probably figure it out by now. If not, just Google NOLA gun seizures. I only linked to a couple of well known news sites....but there's many, many more.

This did happen, and you're fooling yourself if you think it won't happen again.

[NeuroTypical]

Just because it isn’t Constitutional doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I never said it didn't happen. I said I was just trained to go house to house in case of a disaster, and nothing in my training included confiscation of anything.

One of the news stories you cite:

"Police have said that most of the confiscated firearms had been stolen or found in abandoned homes, but the NRA claims police disarmed some people who were trying to flee the city."

So, confiscating stolen firearms isn't a wrong, it's a good thing. Taking firearms from abandoned houses isn't necessarily a bad thing either - I'd much rather the cops have my guns than whomever comes by to loot my house if I'm not there to defend it. And police disarming people doesn't say anything about going door-to-door.

Yes, police abuses happen. Especially in places like New Orleans in a disaster, where there's so much govt. incompetence and corruption even in fair weather. But your strong tones sort of indicate you figured these abuses were purposeful and intended - institutionalized even. Well, I was part of some recent institutionalizing, and I can firmly state that apart from some ignorance about limits to 1st responder authority and citizen's rights, it was all about helping folks and protecting communities.

No, I'm not a LEO.

LM

[GlockGirl]

But your strong tones sort of indicate you figured these abuses were purposeful and intended - institutionalized even.

LM

I absolutely indicate they were purposeful and intended, because they were.

YouTube - National Guard Confiscating Guns in New Orleans

This was in the video section at the bottom of the first link I posted. I’m not saying that the Police and National Guard acted inappropriately on a whim, they were ordered by city officials to illegally seize private property and disarm citizens. The Courts determined that the seizures were illegal and that the property was to be returned, and also ordered a permanent injunction against the city to never again illegally seize firearms from law abiding citizens. Alabama also passed a bill last year to prevent state or local government from seizing lawfully owned guns during emergencies based on what happen in New Orleans.

The OP asked a legitimate question and for the most part was given helpful replies from people. I do not think voicing concern or questioning the actions of overzealous government officials during disasters is unfounded.

I should have mentioned this before but I applaud the fine actions of EMS, Rescue and volunteers from various agencies. It was a terrible time for many of us and unfortunately the courageous deeds of some are often overshadowed by the improper actions of others.

[Hemidakota]

I am looking for a generator and solar panels for back up power. Even testing out the Britta filter to see if the pool water is drinkable during water crisis. :)

[ComeComeYeSaints]

I absolutely indicate they were purposeful and intended, because they were.

YouTube - National Guard Confiscating Guns in New Orleans

This was in the video section at the bottom of the first link I posted. I’m not saying that the Police and National Guard acted inappropriately on a whim, they were ordered by city officials to illegally seize private property and disarm citizens. The Courts determined that the seizures were illegal and that the property was to be returned, and also ordered a permanent injunction against the city to never again illegally seize firearms from law abiding citizens. Alabama also passed a bill last year to prevent state or local government from seizing lawfully owned guns during emergencies based on what happen in New Orleans.

The OP asked a legitimate question and for the most part was given helpful replies from people. I do not think voicing concern or questioning the actions of overzealous government officials during disasters is unfounded.

I should have mentioned this before but I applaud the fine actions of EMS, Rescue and volunteers from various agencies. It was a terrible time for many of us and unfortunately the courageous deeds of some are often overshadowed by the improper actions of others.

I am going to have to agree with GlockGirl on this one. And just because this link I found is from the NRA, does not mean that all of the citizens in the video are on the NRA payroll.

[GingerGolden]

Stockpile rice. I've never heard of anyone being allergic to rice. White rice lasts decades if stored properly. (Brown rice will go rancid in six months to a year). So you can have brown rice for the short term... and some white rice for the long term.

* Note:

The water from boiled rice can also be used for feeding babies.

This is often used when infants have an allergy to milk products.

Just in case anyone does find themselves in a position of not having formula for an infant in times of need.

[EandLDOW]

Yes, police and other "authorities" did unlawfully confiscate firearms in New Orleans. there are now several lawsuits, some of which the "authorities" have already lost, seeking return of those weapons the their lawful owners, or remuneration if the weapons have been destroyed or "lost". The important thing is that they did so unlawfully, and are paying for it now. Even more important is that they did so only to people who were still there after the disaster.

If there's a mojor disaster and the police or looters come to take your weapons or food or anything else and find you at home, you obviously haven't been paying attention to what goes on around you. You should have left weeks ago.

And yes, I'm a retired Fed LEO.

[dalepres]

This an awfully old thread but since you brought it up again, you're suggesting that we abandon our home and property, even when our own home and property is not threatened except by looters and the police? You forget that many of the looters were police and national guard.

The real lesson in this is to have good records of your possessions and a good video surveillance system. That way, when you sue, you can win and get a fair judgment.

What is the point of a home storage plan if we are just going to surrender it to out of control government officials? I'm not saying to fight but I am saying to not cower.

Even more important is that they did so only to people who were still there after the disaster.

If there's a mojor disaster and the police come to loot your weapons or food or anything else and find you at home, you obviously haven't been paying attention to what goes on around you. You should have left weeks ago.

There. I fixed it for you... Sort of. Your basic premise is false. The police and guard, as well as non-uniformed thugs, looted the homes of people who left along with the homes of those who stayed. In fact, I would venture to say that more homes of those who stayed were looted by uniformed thugs than by non-uniformed thugs.

[gigi]

You know, it's okay to share. . . . of our own volition. . . . . you know, out of the goodness of our hearts.

[NeuroTypical]

Sharing is fine. Having it taken by force is what this thread is about.

[gigi]

I just feel this thread is paranoid. Not that it couldn't actually occur. I'm just not feeling it. I read this thread for helpful ideas, those I appreciate. Plan for the worst and make things the best you can. Or I guess we could just fill our storage with fear and anger and feelings of injustice, betrayal, whatever. Things are not going to be pretty, one way or another. We're assured of that! My take is . . . you put your trust in the Lord, be obedient and deal with the rest by the Spirit. Positive legal ideas and helpful hints appreciated.

Sorry, I'll leave the thread.

[dalepres]

Here's my plan for sharing. If you come to my house with a weapon to take what I have, I plan to defend myself and my family. If you come to my house with an empty bowl, I will share with you.

[EandLDOW]

My original point was that if you leave, you take your stuff with you, and looters can't get it.

And yes, I plan to share, but will resist being robbed.

[BenRaines]

I see an accusation that the police were looters. Any evidence? How many of the city's police officers were looters? Does one make the Police looters? How about the National Guard? How many of them?

Ben Raines

[antsyl]

Can you imagine that we live in America and have to consider this kind of stuff? I want to know, who stole my country?

[foodstr2]

Antsyl,

The radical, far-left has been at work for decades *stealing* our country. They now have control of entertainment, education and 99% of news outlets. I believe they think they now have enough power to take total power (with Obama in power). It's now only a matter of time ... within a year, I think, until our Republic is totally deconstructed.

It's time to get prepared!

Edited December 5, 2009 by pam
Link must be in signature not in body of message.

[WyomingEMT]

25 years ago I started my food storage program. My wife and I went down to Salt Lake City and purchased 2000 pounds of wheat in 50lb bags. We bought several hundred pounds of beans, rice, lentals, milk in cans, potato buds, well you get the idea. I was ready for the big one, I was ready to board up the window with my gun sticking through a slot and repel all neighbors that had not prepared. My thinking has changed drastically. I can not watch anyone go hungry and sit on my food storage down in the basement with my gun at the ready. I truly think that if there comes a day when the sky is falling, those who have stored food will be asked to bring it to a central point and share it with others. I myself would be happy as a clam if they packed all that stuff up out of my basement. To finally answer your question, if marshal law is issued, federal, state, and even locally, they can confiscate anything you own.

Start small and store what you like and eat everyday, rotate that food. and store plenty of water. my choice is 5 gallon mylar bags in storage box, easy to stack and water tastes great after many years.

Edited December 5, 2009 by WyomingEMT

[mrmarklin]

While food storage is laudable, we need to be sensible about it. For most of us in cities who live in apartments or have homes without basements, having one or two years food supply is just not practical. Simpley no room to store it! In my local area, subject to earthquakes, 72 hour supply is recommended by the church and the authorities. Many of us have more, but I don't know anyone with a two year or even a one year supply.

Think about it. If there is a truly national emergency where there is a breakdown of law and order or the national or regional authorities cannot help, you would want to share your excess food with family and friends. The real limiting factor is water supply. Most of us cannot store this, yet one can only live a few days without it. So having a two year supply of food without water is meaningless. Most of us live in large urban areas where water is literally brought in over tens of miles, and sometimes hundreds. So unless you can quickly sink a well on your property and get access to a pump you're done.

Edited December 5, 2009 by mrmarklin

[LDSVALLEY]

In Nova Scotia our EMO during an emergency has the legal right to confiscate anything for the needs of the people during an emergency. They will provide restitution at a later date so as one person said make sure you have a record of what you have. I too also keep quite about who much and what we have, outside of church anyway.

History has shown us that when disasters strike there are many who work together to do what is right. There are also many who feel justified or are terrified and take what they need or want from others. I don't own a gun, have never fired one, have never wanted one. I have concern over defending my family (I could care less about property other then what I would need to keep my family alive.) I have not figured out a solution for this. I can't afford the courses and fee's let alone the cost of the gun. In the country it is not as much a concern as when I lived in the city at least I hope!

One area we are falling short on, at least up here in the church, is we talk individual preparedness only. Ward preparedness is a joke in 8 years we have an emergency call out list that requires a working phone system, and each year we do a survey that finds 20% of the Ward can sustain themselves for 1 week or more, providing homes are not damaged.

Our Ward boundary is 45 min drive East to West and North to South at 60mph (100kmh). My home teaching families are around 40km (25?mile) away from my house. The odd's that I will be able to do anything to help them in a crises are slim. Three years ago I agreed to help with Emergency planning in our ward. When we attempted to create local crises zones so members could gather in local geographical groups and work together, share resources etc to build everyone up the Leadership said they wanted to start smaller........Mind you we have yet to start anything! So I stopped worrying about the Ward and focused our limited resources on our family.

And yes I will help where I can in an emergency, and I have, but my first priority must be my family. The best thing we can do is do something each week. Fill a pop bottle with water and a spoonful of bleach. When we had an apartment I used a double stack of milk crates under a sheet of plywood for the box spring of our bed. 45 cans of soup will fit in each crate. It was harder to rotate, we only did it once a month but it worked and lots of crates fit under a bed.

It is good to understand what might occur. It is normal to worry about what will happen in a crises. It is better to first do something to be ready for when the time comes.

[foodstr2]

WyomingEMT: I hope you properly repackaged those 50 bags of foods. Many items (wheat, in particular) come with bug eggs already in them. If the foods are not repackaged and canned with oxygen absorbers, or diatomaceous earth, you end up with a bag containing dust and dead insects.

mrmarklin: I constantly counsel people NOT to store water. It's extremely dangerous. A much better solution is to get a *quality* water filter, like the AquaRain which filters to 99.9999% (pictures are on my website). You can then safely drink about 30,000 gallons of lake, pond, river, pool or puddle water on ONE set of filter "candles".

Hope this helps!

Bruce

[LDSVALLEY]

WyomingEMT: I hope you properly repackaged those 50 bags of foods. Many items (wheat, in particular) come with bug eggs already in them. If the foods are not repackaged and canned with oxygen absorbers, or diatomaceous earth, you end up with a bag containing dust and dead insects.

mrmarklin: I constantly counsel people NOT to store water. It's extremely dangerous. A much better solution is to get a *quality* water filter, like the AquaRain which filters to 99.9999% (pictures are on my website). You can then safely drink about 30,000 gallons of lake, pond, river, pool or puddle water on ONE set of filter "candles".

Hope this helps!

Bruce

A member of our Ward sent in a bottle of Water his mother had stored 20 years earlier with a teaspoon of bleach per 2 ltr bottle to the government testing site. It came back with the highest rating they give out!

We have around 200 ltr of water and bleach stored. After 5 years I dump, rinse and refill just to be on the safe side.

But the filter is an excellent idea, I might have the water stored but I can't transport any amount for any real distance. If our home was damaged our water reserve would be gone. The filter is transportable it can go with you.

[Hemidakota]

I'm not in the LDS Church, but my fiancee and I are planning on putting together a food storage supply of at least a year's worth of food for the two of us and her daughter after we get married in March. I've already started with this on my own and have about six months worth of food for myself. What I'd like to know is whether there are any concerns that have been discussed among LDS members on any anti-hoarding laws by state or federal governments that would result in confiscation of "excessive" food in the event of a declared "national emergency." I don't see how the confiscation of food acquired prior to any such directives would be legal, but I'm not a legal expert. But regardless, since food storage is a big thing for LDS Church members, what do you all know about potential problems with confiscation if things get bad and laws are passed to ban hoarding of food?

The time to hoard is now...what is coming for 2010 may not give you another opportunity to do so.

[mrmarklin]

WyomingEMT: mrmarklin: I constantly counsel people NOT to store water. It's extremely dangerous. A much better solution is to get a *quality* water filter, like the AquaRain which filters to 99.9999% (pictures are on my website). You can then safely drink about 30,000 gallons of lake, pond, river, pool or puddle water on ONE set of filter "candles".

Hope this helps!

Bruce

I hope everyone lives near to a clean water source. If we have a real emergency, your tap will not work.

I live in a city where the water comes from almost 200 miles away. Yes there are lakes, creeks somewhat close (a few miles), but I would certainly not call them at all convenient. I could drill a well, ground water is very close, but I would need a pump. Maybe the city I live in has such things for emergencies. But realistically, if society is broken to the extent that no one can reach where I live (a very large metropolitan area) it's curtains for the USA, not just me and mine

[LDSVALLEY]

With the water issue, we are lucky to have a well. WE are unlucky that it is hardwired into the electrical system. I have an old gas lawnmower, I plan on picking up an alternator and inverter. Then I can keep my 3 car batteries charged, the generator will be kept outside of course. I then have to change the pump to a plug.

[Hemidakota]

Amazing talents on this forum...good call on the lawn mower. I have a 7kw generator for emergency use with unknown amount of gas. Just don't light a match around the house though.