Service Dog question...


sister_in_faith
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2 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

 

That brings up an item I had not thought of.  I have never seen a service dog in the temple and my first reaction would be that it was inappropriate (even without the guidance someone quoted above or reading anything else on it).  However, I have two relatives (brother in law, son in law) that have epilepsy.  A service dog CAN warn them of an oncoming attack and they have medications and other items (one has some sort of monitor or something near their chest that can release a medication I think) which they can respond with in these instances.

I know a Human simply cannot replace the animal in a situation like that.  This is off the wall, but what would happen if they could not bring the animal with them (And as far as I feel and can tell, it is inappropriate to bring the animal in, even a service dog) and then suffered a fatal epileptic attack or injurious (and the only reason for the animals and medication is because the seizures have gotten serious enough for bad injuries and some day may be fatal if they keep increasing in seriousness).  Would that bring up a lawsuit?  I would never sue over such a thing, but there may be those out there.  Would that be a legal item at all?

Once again, I do not feel, even in this situation, a service dog should be allowed in the temple, especially in some ordinances...however...the quoted posts above did bring that question to mind when thinking on it.

 

Sounds like due to medical issues they would be unable to attend the temple. 

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Guest MormonGator

What I don't get? They'll let in people like @zil and @Carborendum but not my sweet little Jaina? 

Hold on, I need to call President Nelson and tell him about this offense to human decency. 

Edited by MormonGator
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1 hour ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

First is this a seeing eye dog or other medically required animal? i.e for seizures etc? or is it just a feel good dog?

I don't think animals of any kind are allowed in the temple. 

I will assume it is a companion for comfort. Leave your dog at home in a kennel, or with a friend. If you insist on traveling with it leave it in the hotel in a crate for a day. We all need to remember that it is just a dog (not a person) and it will survive. 

 

 

No, this is a medical alert service dog, required to be by my side 24/7 by my medical team. A companion for comfort is an ESA (emotional support animal), just so you know, they aren't service dogs. So the comfort companion would be an ESA, not a service dog.

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5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

What I don't get? They'll let in people like @zil and @Carborendum but not my sweet little Jaina? 

Hold on, I need to call President Nelson and tell him about this offense to human decency. 

Don't you mean canine decency?

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7 minutes ago, Myhappilyeverafter said:

No, this is a medical alert service dog, required to be by my side 24/7 by my medical team. A companion for comfort is an ESA (emotional support animal), just so you know, they aren't service dogs. So the comfort companion would be an ESA, not a service dog.

You certainly have a good reason. I pray that you are allowed to experience the blessings of the temple my friend. 
 

4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Don't you mean canine decency?

Grrrr......bark bark.....grrrr......

(Sorry, Jaina got control of the keyboard. Seriously dude, you've seen pictures of her on my Facebook. Isn't she adorable?) 

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1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

You certainly have a good reason. I pray that you are allowed to experience the blessings of the temple my friend. 
 

Grrrr......bark bark.....grrrr......

(Sorry, Jaina got control of the keyboard. Seriously dude, you've seen pictures of her on my Facebook. Isn't she adorable?) 

Thanks so much, me too!

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1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

(Sorry, Jaina got control of the keyboard. Seriously dude, you've seen pictures of her on my Facebook. Isn't she adorable?) 

Wait.  You have a facebook page?  I haven't heard of this.  Did you get my permission?

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25 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Sounds like due to medical issues they would be unable to attend the temple. 

I'm pretty certain they can attend the temple.  I know my Brother-in-Law has a recommend and has gone to the temple.  Why would they not be allowed to attend the temple, because they have severe epilepsy?  I've never heard of someone being barred for that reason.  It is possible for them to suffer a severe attack (severe enough to warrant an ambulance and medical personnel) which is very bad.  A Service animal somehow can sense these attacks in a way that I do not understand.  This allows them to have a heads up and hopefully get medication in their system that will lesson the severity of the attack.  It's not a sure thing or not a sure thing.  They go 99% of the time without suffering from attacks.  It's just that 1% of the time when it comes upon them.  It does restrict them from holding certain jobs and doing certain activities, but I've never heard of severe epilepsy as a barrier to the temple.

It is unknown when an attack will come upon them.  You can never tell (for example, we went with my Brother-in-law to an event last summer and we are guessing the heat and lack of drinking enough liquids triggered an attack while we were at the event) when an attack is going to occur.  This is what the service animal would be for, to sense the attack and enable them to get the medications started.  A human simply does not have that capacity to sense the oncoming attack before it happens.  Even my Brother in Law, he can sense it, but it's not as early as the animal can and hence medications are not even a quarter as effective if he can feel an attack coming on as when an animal senses it first.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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Just now, Carborendum said:

Wait.  You have a facebook page?  I haven't heard of this.  Did you get my permission?

:: loosens tie, sweats profusely ::

Sorry Dad. Um, I forgot. Am I grounded again? No Nintendo for a week? Drat. 

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14 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

I'm pretty certain they can attend the temple.  I know my Brother-in-Law has a recommend and has gone to the temple.  Why would they not be allowed to attend the temple, because they have severe epilepsy?  I've never heard of someone being barred for that reason.  It is possible for them to suffer a severe attack (severe enough to warrant an ambulance and medical personnel) which is very bad.  A Service animal somehow can sense these attacks in a way that I do not understand.  This allows them to have a heads up and hopefully get medication in their system that will lesson the severity of the attack.  It's not a sure thing or not a sure thing.  They go 99% of the time without suffering from attacks.  It's just that 1% of the time when it comes upon them.  It does restrict them from holding certain jobs and doing certain activities, but I've never heard of severe epilepsy as a barrier to the temple.

It is unknown when an attack will come upon them.  You can never tell (for example, we went with my Brother-in-law to an event last summer and we are guessing the heat and lack of drinking enough liquids triggered an attack while we were at the event) when an attack is going to occur.  This is what the service animal would be for, to sense the attack and enable them to get the medications started.  A human simply does not have that capacity to sense the oncoming attack before it happens.  Even my Brother in Law, he can sense it, but it's not as early as the animal can and hence medications are not even a quarter as effective if he can feel an attack coming on as when an animal senses it first.

I should rephrase. They can attend the temple, but shouldn't. Let me rephrase again. I OMEGA wouldn't attend the temple if I had a medical condition that required the animal by my side at all times. I would not want to be disruptive to others or cause any sort of distraction that takes away from the work performed in the temple.

Why take the risk if your life hangs in the balance of this animal alerting you to a potentially disastrous circumstance.

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5 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I should rephrase. They can attend the temple, but shouldn't. Let me rephrase again. I OMEGA wouldn't attend the temple if I had a medical condition that required the animal by my side at all times. I would not want to be disruptive to others or cause any sort of distraction that takes away from the work performed in the temple.

Why take the risk if your life hangs in the balance of this animal alerting you to a potentially disastrous circumstance.

Because the blessings of the temple are great enough to warrant the risk.

You bring your ancestors and relatives among the dead the saving ordinances they need.  What price can one set on that?

Or, if one has not been to the temple and received their own ordinances, to receive the saving ordinances of the Kingdom and to be sealed for all eternity to their family.

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1 minute ago, JohnsonJones said:

Because the blessings of the temple are great enough to warrant the risk.

You die because you choose to attend the temple, you were not a good steward with the life you were given. You selfishly threw it away instead of having the faith the God would make things right for you in the next life.

2 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

You bring your ancestors and relatives among the dead the saving ordinances they need.  What price can one set on that?

The life of one living person is greater. Our ancestors will get their opportunity they have been promised it.

3 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

 if one has not been to the temple and received their own ordinances, to receive the saving ordinances of the Kingdom and to be sealed for all eternity to their family.

Again the Lord will make all things right.  In this life we have an obligation to serve to the best of our abilities and not be frivolous with our lives or in our decision making.

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Just now, omegaseamaster75 said:

You die because you choose to attend the temple, you were not a good steward with the life you were given. You selfishly threw it away instead of having the faith the God would make things right for you in the next life.

The life of one living person is greater. Our ancestors will get their opportunity they have been promised it.

Again the Lord will make all things right.  In this life we have an obligation to serve to the best of our abilities and not be frivolous with our lives or in our decision making.

I would not say someone receiving the eternal ordinances are being bad stewards, and in fact would say we are commanded to receive these things and to turn our hearts to our fathers (ancestors).  In fact, it states the entire world will be have terrible things occur if the children's hearts do not turn to their fathers.

How is it selfish to be in the service of your fellow beings, especially those who cannot do the temple work for themselves.  It is all about doing service for your ancestors and relatives.

How is it being selfish if you do as your commanded in order to receive exaltation in the hereafter.  If you can physically do this, to NOT do this I think would be worse.

Let's put it into another perspective.  Let's increase the odds and say you have a 10% chance of dying if you join the LDS church (this actually comes from the word decimate having the Latin origin where they would kill 1/10 of those they took, which applied at times to Christians...and the rest...some became slaves, others the lions..etc).  You know it is true. 

Would you still be baptized...or would you decide that you would not because that 10% is too great?  You know it's a commandment to be baptized, and knowingly disobeying a commandment isn't normally recommended.

Do you get baptized or not.

Me...I would get baptized in order to be saved in the Kingdom of our Lord. 

If that is important, how much more important are the saving ordinances for exaltation for us and our dead ancestors?

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48 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

I know my Brother-in-Law has a recommend and has gone to the temple. 

With the dog?  That's the big question.  From the looks of things, that's not an option.  But if you know for a fact not just that he has been to the temple, but that he has been able to take the dog in, then we have precedent at one temple at least.

21 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

You die because you choose to attend the temple, you were not a good steward with the life you were given. You selfishly threw it away instead of having the faith the God would make things right for you in the next life.

Or you could have the faith that God would protect you for the duration of your visit so that you could enter the temple without the dog/animal.

I wouldn't find fault with such an individual regardless of the decision they make.  They know the risks, their history, their prayers, etc.  They are in the best position to decide.

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1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

Surely you jest! Have Temple Recommend standards dropped that low in the States?

Yes, look how far it's fallen in Australia. After all, you have a temple recommend.  

Edited by MormonGator
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1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

Surely you jest! Have Temple Recommend standards dropped that low in the States?

Temple Recommend standards?   What Temple Recommend standards?

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3 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Yes, look how far it's fallen in Australia. After all, you have a temple recommend.  

I have 4 - one for the Mormon temples one for the synagogue one for the mosque and one for the ashram. Who could ever be satisfied with just one recommend? 

Edited by askandanswer
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3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

How is it selfish to be in the service of your fellow beings, especially those who cannot do the temple work for themselves.  It is all about doing service for your ancestors and relatives.

How is it being selfish if you do as your commanded in order to receive exaltation in the hereafter.  If you can physically do this, to NOT do this I think would be worse.

 

Being selfish is a sin, if you casually throw away your life to satisfy some inner desire you have sinned. Can going to the temple be a sin? Sounds like maybe yes...

 

3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Let's put it into another perspective.  Let's increase the odds and say you have a 10% chance of dying if you join the LDS church (this actually comes from the word decimate having the Latin origin where they would kill 1/10 of those they took, which applied at times to Christians...and the rest...some became slaves, others the lions..etc).  You know it is true. 

Would you still be baptized...or would you decide that you would not because that 10% is too great?  You know it's a commandment to be baptized, and knowingly disobeying a commandment isn't normally recommended.

Do you get baptized or not.

Me...I would get baptized in order to be saved in the Kingdom of our Lord. 

Apples and Oranges.....

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3 hours ago, zil said:

With the dog?  That's the big question.  From the looks of things, that's not an option.  But if you know for a fact not just that he has been to the temple, but that he has been able to take the dog in, then we have precedent at one temple at least.

Or you could have the faith that God would protect you for the duration of your visit so that you could enter the temple without the dog/animal.

I wouldn't find fault with such an individual regardless of the decision they make.  They know the risks, their history, their prayers, etc.  They are in the best position to decide.

No, never with a dog.  Thus far, never a seizure in the temple either that I know of.  He and my sister went to the temple just recently, so pretty sure he still goes though.  Never with any animals though.  He's not allowed to drive though so she has to be the one to drive them there or they get a ride with someone else (like me if I'm in their area).

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2 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Being selfish is a sin, if you casually throw away your life to satisfy some inner desire you have sinned. Can going to the temple be a sin? Sounds like maybe yes...

Seriously? 

Being disabled is NOT a sin...What are you on?  Someone who has epilepsy is NOT simply throwing their life away if they go to the temple.  The Lord loves them just as much as anyone else.

In that light, yeah, we are probably done here.  I think discussing this with someone who judges people with disabilities as such and condemning them in this manner is probably going to make me get impolite sooner than later, and that's not a good thing for me to do.

So, I think we are done here on this item, or at least I am in regards to you. 

The question I asked still stands in regards to what type of legal situation would arise....but probably not towards you on this one.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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Just now, JohnsonJones said:

Seriously?

Okaaaaay.  We're done here.

Yeah we are.  

Hypothetical, you leave your companion animal at home, you take a flyer going to the temple because you really think that it is that important.  You die in the temple.  How will God judge you? As a saint for trying to do his work or as a dummy for throwing away the life he gave you?

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6 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Yeah we are.  

Hypothetical, you leave your companion animal at home, you take a flyer going to the temple because you really think that it is that important.  You die in the temple.  How will God judge you? As a saint for trying to do his work or as a dummy for throwing away the life he gave you?

Seeing how we've had General Authorities, saints, and others die in the temple, I'd imagine the LORD DOES NOT hold that against ANYONE if they should die doing his work.

What, you think those who die doing the Lord's work are condemned?

Weird judgment call.

Anyways, I edited my comment above a little to explain it more.

People with disabilities are loved just as much as anyone else.  Back in the day before the church got all modern, it was even occasionally expounded over the pulpit (but not as doctrine) that some of those who were disabled were perhaps MORE valiant in the pre-existence and they suffered from these to spare them even worse from the adversary who would tempt them beyond what it would be possible to endure otherwise.   It was also done so that we could be seen how charitable and like the Lord we were, rather than anything on them.  If anything, the condemnation was on US...rather than on them.

 I wouldn't be trying to kick someone out of the temple due to disability and I certainly wouldn't consider it a sin for them to do the Lord's work.  If I recall, the Lord went to the poor, the disabled, and the sick...

And on that I should probably end it.  I expounded on this due to expanding on my first post.  These types of attacks on individuals that are disabled are probably just going to make me angry and make me come out with statements I should not state.

So, yeah, now we are done.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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1 minute ago, JohnsonJones said:

 I wouldn't be trying to kick someone out of the temple due to disability and I certainly wouldn't consider it a sin for them to do the Lord's work.  If I recall, the Lord went to the poor, the disabled, and the sick...

It's one thing to die of natural causes it is another to play with fire

I think that all should be allowed in the temple. Careful thought and prayer should be given when you have extenuating circumstances. I.e a disability 

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