Don't Hate Me (LDS turned Christian Protestant)

[ErikJohnson]

Used to be LDS. Born into it, sixth generation, both sides in my family (Mom and Dad were from Provo). Ancestors who pushed handcarts across the plains, practiced polygamy—things that are nearly impossible to relate to in this day and age. And yet I always struggled with it. I enjoyed the culture, the people (for the most part)—but its doctrines never resonated. Back then I genuinely “hoped” the church was true, but I didn’t really believe it. And I was always honest about my lack of belief in the interviews I had with bishops. I had enough hope to pay my tithing, attend regularly, and make a good effort to fulfill my “callings” (mostly clerical/secretarial ones)—but I never served a mission or took out my “endowments” at the temple. This went on for years.

I won’t get into the details, but in the late 90’s I found myself with a brand new motive to get a testimony of the LDS Church sufficient to obtain a temple recommend. (Okay—since you’ve probably guessed already—I met a woman I wanted to marry and she wouldn’t consider anything outside of the temple.) And up till then I’d read the Book of Mormon several times and I’d prayed about it many times more—but I never felt anything one way or the other. The admonition I always got from bishops was to read and re-read that book and keep doing so until I could come back with the right answer. But thinking about the matter one day it occurred to me that my root problem was a lack of “faith in Christ”—which Moroni 10:4 makes requisite.

The solution to my lack of faith in Christ, I thought, would be to read the New Testament. And finding the 400 year-old prose of the King James Version hard to read and understand, I purchased a copy of The Precise Parallel New Testament (Oxford Press) which included the KJV along with six other translations. Over the next year, I read KJV, in parallel with the Amplified New Testament and the Rheims New Testament. (Conveniently, my employer staffed me on a long-term project in Dallas, so I had plenty of time for reading each week while sitting on the airplane.)

The New Testament was different, nothing like my experience reading the Book of Mormon. And contrary to my initial expectations, I found myself enjoying the time I spent with the New Testament, even to the point of not minding the weekly flight to Dallas. But despite this, I wasn’t really getting it. The message wasn’t sinking in. I couldn’t see the implications. Frankly, I found some of its passages strange and even contradictory.

And then I hit Romans chapter 9 and Paul’s rhetorical question: “Has the potter no right over the clay?” (v. 21) and in that chapter I experienced a revelation. Indications of what Paul writes in Romans 9 are found throughout the Gospels, especially John, but somehow it hadn’t sunk in. Here I was confronted with a whole chapter devoted, unmistakably, to a sovereign God. A God who elected, who predestined, and who did all this without regard to human endeavor. Moreover, the author backed himself with examples from the Old Testament, first using Esau and Jacob, and then with God’s hardening the heart of the Pharaoh. This, in the author’s mind, was the same God, then as now.

I have to confess that once I realized what Paul was actually saying—the concept struck me as grossly unfair. Initially, I wasn’t a big fan of Paul.

Despite my discomfort with something that was fast becoming a recurring theme in Paul’s writing—I kept going. By the end of 1999, I’d read the New Testament three times, using three different English translations. And while I couldn’t profess any real belief in its teachings—at least one thing had become clear to me: The New Testament was very, very different from the Mormon doctrines I’d grown up with. That, and the New Testament was compelling in a way no other book had ever been.

From 2000 on, I kept reading. I re-read the Book of Mormon, the D&C and Pearl of Great Price. I read the Jewish Publication Society’s English translation of Tanakh (the 39 books of the Hebrew Bible divided between Torah, The Prophets, and The Writings). I read The Apocrypha (“Deutercanonical Books” as some prefer), and for seeming good measure, a translation of Al Qur’an.

But aside from becoming rather formidable in Gospel Doctrine and Elders’ Quorum discussions, none of my efforts were resulting in any actual faith. The opposite was happening—my studies only served to deepen my skepticism of the church’s doctrines. And the “hope” that I had once been able to express to my bishops had largely evaporated.

Yet along the way, I lost my objection to Paul. Lost my objection to Paul’s ideas of grace and predestination, his idea of man’s total depravity, and his stubborn, repeated insistence that salvation came “not by works” but through faith—faith alone. Funny thing: Even though I could claim no faith at the time, I could plainly see how right Paul was on that last score. I’d studied my scriptures, prayed fervently, paid my tithing to the full, abstained from pornography, kept the Word of Wisdom, confessed my sexual sins to my bishop—and yet none of my works had brought me faith. Paul taught faith was a gift apportioned by God, not some reward for our own efforts. And it became increasingly evident to me that it could be no other way—no other way than what Paul had written twenty centuries before.

In early 2005 I attended an evening service at a non-denominational church that is theologically Reformed Baptist, Mars Hill Church in Seattle. The pastor was in the middle of a 12-month sermon series on Genesis. That evening, during his hour-long sermon, he read and covered every single verse in his chapter, presenting it in the context of the larger book and in the context of the Bible as a whole. It was the first time I could remember sitting in a church and hearing an entire Bible chapter read. In my LDS tradition, speakers would take a verse or two from one book, a verse or two from another and perhaps a third, and splice them together into a whole new context and meaning (invariably supporting LDS doctrine)—that often had nothing to with the original authors’ intent (at least it seemed to me). I was immediately drawn to the pastor’s approach to the Bible and I returned each Sunday evening to hear more (while still going to my LDS services in the mornings).

After a long night in prayer in early June of that year I yielded to God’s irresistible grace and became a Christian and was baptized later that summer. I resigned from the LDS Church shortly thereafter (although the resignation process proved something of an ordeal, lasting ~ 9 months and requiring repeated calls to Salt Lake City). I now enjoy a church where the Bible is held as inerrant and Jesus is worshiped as God. And since that time God has blessed me with a wife, and on the evening of December 24th 2008, a daughter. The awkward, misfit, “Single Adult” I once was—has been given a new life. And I know I owe it all to Grace. These days I lead a small group Bible study out of our house, and we’re now up to about 20 people. We’re currently studying 1 John on Tuesday nights, in the University District in Seattle, just a few blocks up from my old Mormon ward.

Anyway, I won’t have a ton of time to post here—but wanted to give folks a little background so they could have some perspective when I do. And if you happen to be in the greater Seattle metropolitan area—I’m always up for grabbing a drink and having a conversation.

In Christ,

--Erik

[BenRaines]

Welcome to the site Erik. An interesting life experience. I hope as you visit this LDS site you keep in mind the rules of the site and we can freely exchange ideas within those guidelines. We have several who have never been LDS visit here and some former LDS members as well.

Regards,

Ben Raines

[skalenfehl]

Welcome!

[miztrniceguy]

why would we hate you? you are welcome here and in our meetings.

[FunkyTown]

You absolutely are welcome here. Predestination sounds like a recurring theme in your journey and, while I can't say I agree with the Calvinists, I can certainly see where they come from. Welcome!

[KristofferUmfrey]

I love Pastor Mark! He's my favorite protestant minister on the internet!

At least you only left...

I still believe in the Book of Mormon, left, and have started a spiritual community... and they are still pretty nice to me here. So you should be fine.

[Palerider]

welcome to the site...:)

[Dr T]

Welcome 2 this site :)

[MormonMema]

I respect your quest. It looks like you struggled long and hard to come to faith. I've come to the conclusion that God can use other religions as stepping stones on the path to faith in Christ. I also believe fervently in the passages in the Book of Mormon, 2 Neph 29:7-12, which talks about how God has commanded men in all nations to write (and share) his word. I have a feeling that this is why there are so many religions: God sent prophets and teachers into the world, with his gospel, to be taught according to the cultural understanding of the people in the various nations. Someday, all the teachings will come together, and we'll all have the whole story. Right now, we have the Bible, mainly the teachings of the Jews, which Protestants believe is all there is, the Book of Mormon, which I believe is the companion to the Bible, and the other latter-day scriptures. We also have the teachings of Islam, as found in the Queran. These are, collectively, the teachings of the children of Abraham because Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all stem from the same root. All are wonderful, beautiful teachings. There are also beautiful teachings in the Asian religions, such as Buddhism. I really believe that there is a purpose for all religions, and truth is found everywhere. Someday, all the truths will come together, and we'll all have the whole story.

As Paul said, "For now we see through a glass, darkly..." 1 Corinthians 13:12. Someday, we shall all see clearly. I think the Internet, through web sites like this, can be a great force for good, in increasing understanding, and lessening prejudices.

[georgia2]

You sure had to work to get where you are!

I feel sorry and sad that you had to go to another church to hear the scriptures actually taught in a whole form. i guess you never made it to the adult Sunday School class. That is one of my favorite classes because we do read the chapters and study it in it's whole concept.

I used to be Baptist and converted to LDS when I was in my 20's. I too have read other translations of the Bible and have found and can see how in "modern" translations, some of the original meanings do not come through. We also don't use words and they don't have the same meaning and implication as they did when they were written. Hence the need for modern revelation not modernizing of the ancient scriptures.

Today in Relief Society our lesson was on Joseph Smith, the first vision, and what other prophets have said about him. The other prophets are not just the modern prophets but also consist of ancient prophets describing a prophet that would be raised up in the latter days even to the point of saying his named would be Joseph. Anyway, the main underlying truth of our lesson is that a person HAS TO have a testimony of Joseph Smith actually seeing Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ or their belief in the churches other teachings could not stand.

I fear that when kids are raised in the church by parents who were raised in the church, sometimes that very basic concept is forgotten. A book I was recently reading by another member said, "Sometimes we look at and insist on things such as clean cut looks, attendance in meetings, serving a mission, as the most important things instead of what that clean cut kid actually feels inside!" Is it so terrible if a kid has a tattoo but also has a testimony? Personally I would much rather have my kids with a tattoo and a testimony instead of the outward appearance with no inside commitment!

Best of luck and blessings on your new family and your new found peace!

[prisonchaplain]

Erik, if they can allow a pentecostal chaplain to hang out here, relatively unfettered, you should be fine. :-) P.S. Maybe it's because we're from Seattle, and 87% of all cool people are from our region. :-) :-)

[Mormonatalie]

Mormons believe in the same path to eternal life that the Savior taught while on the earth. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ enables believers to progress in following the Savior and in becoming more like Him. His grace enables us to overcome weaknesses, heal from pain and trial, and to find peace and rest in Him. Even our deepest traumas can be healed though His atoning power.

[jimuk]

As already said, why would you be hated here, it is not in my nature to hate anyone or anything.

Below is why i would think you were truly blessed in the church.

I feel that it must be harder for those born into the church to loving LDS parents, they have the spirit all around them from the word go, so as you grow up this love of the Holy Ghost is all around you, you are used to it being there.

We converts find becoming members of such a loving community so overwhelming, it is a huge change to anything we have experienced before in our lives, we have the joy of the holy spirit litteraly over powering our very own spirits, which is all so very new and shocking to us, we are truly blessed for this new experience.

But you guys are also so very blessed to have been given a "Head start", to have had these beautiful teachings, to have heard so much talk about Heavenly fathers love, and the teachings of Jesus, throughout your youth.

I do feel that you are blessed, and you guys do continue to be our teachers, both Morally and spiritually.

I read here a lot about you guys that are born into the "Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints" a lot of you say that you feel nothing when you pray for an answer from heavenly father, then maybe just maybe it is because you are already because of your lineage through your parents and grandparents, that you already have your answers through your upbringing, the "feelings" that you are looking for are already there, we as converts do not already know so when these experiences happen we are able to recognise the changes and it is most beautifull to us.

I hope you know what i am talking about here. I would love to have been born into the church, being taught the true path of life from my beginning of life on earth, but i also am so greatfull for being able to recognise The power of the Holy ghost over my reborn spirit into the church.

[Elgama]

If I hated everyone in life who was wrong I would have no friends lol

-Charley

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Erik,

Could you explain what you hope to gain on this forum? I'm thinking back to your comment on this thread, where you talk about an encounter with one of our missionaries:

The last thing this young man’s superiors would want is for me to show up, Bible in hand, to critique the next Gospel Doctrine lesson in the local LDS ward.

Is that what you'd like to do here? Do you want to critique our beliefs and compare them to your interpretation of Biblical teaching?

In other words, and please forgive me for being blunt, are you coming here to rock our LDS boat? You can start as many introduction threads as you like, but if your purpose here is to lead people away from the LDS faith, I'm not sure you're on the correct message board. From what I understand (and mods, please correct me if I'm wrong), lds.net forums are here so faithful LDS folks can answer honest questions from people who actually want to know. They are not here for people who figure they already know the truth, and want to open our LDS eyes to it.

Again, moderators, if I'm off base here, please let me know. I'd love to engage Eric as he tries to tell me why my faith, the BoM, our prophets, etc. are wrong. But as far as I can tell, lds.net isn't for church critics to take their best shot.

LM

Edited January 5, 2009 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Guest ceeboo]

Used to be LDS. Born into it, sixth generation, both sides in my family (Mom and Dad were from Provo). Ancestors who pushed handcarts across the plains, practiced polygamy—things that are nearly impossible to relate to in this day and age. And yet I always struggled with it. I enjoyed the culture, the people (for the most part)—but its doctrines never resonated. Back then I genuinely “hoped” the church was true, but I didn’t really believe it. And I was always honest about my lack of belief in the interviews I had with bishops. I had enough hope to pay my tithing, attend regularly, and make a good effort to fulfill my “callings” (mostly clerical/secretarial ones)—but I never served a mission or took out my “endowments” at the temple. This went on for years.

I won’t get into the details, but in the late 90’s I found myself with a brand new motive to get a testimony of the LDS Church sufficient to obtain a temple recommend. (Okay—since you’ve probably guessed already—I met a woman I wanted to marry and she wouldn’t consider anything outside of the temple.) And up till then I’d read the Book of Mormon several times and I’d prayed about it many times more—but I never felt anything one way or the other. The admonition I always got from bishops was to read and re-read that book and keep doing so until I could come back with the right answer. But thinking about the matter one day it occurred to me that my root problem was a lack of “faith in Christ”—which Moroni 10:4 makes requisite.

The solution to my lack of faith in Christ, I thought, would be to read the New Testament. And finding the 400 year-old prose of the King James Version hard to read and understand, I purchased a copy of The Precise Parallel New Testament (Oxford Press) which included the KJV along with six other translations. Over the next year, I read KJV, in parallel with the Amplified New Testament and the Rheims New Testament. (Conveniently, my employer staffed me on a long-term project in Dallas, so I had plenty of time for reading each week while sitting on the airplane.)

The New Testament was different, nothing like my experience reading the Book of Mormon. And contrary to my initial expectations, I found myself enjoying the time I spent with the New Testament, even to the point of not minding the weekly flight to Dallas. But despite this, I wasn’t really getting it. The message wasn’t sinking in. I couldn’t see the implications. Frankly, I found some of its passages strange and even contradictory.

And then I hit Romans chapter 9 and Paul’s rhetorical question: “Has the potter no right over the clay?” (v. 21) and in that chapter I experienced a revelation. Indications of what Paul writes in Romans 9 are found throughout the Gospels, especially John, but somehow it hadn’t sunk in. Here I was confronted with a whole chapter devoted, unmistakably, to a sovereign God. A God who elected, who predestined, and who did all this without regard to human endeavor. Moreover, the author backed himself with examples from the Old Testament, first using Esau and Jacob, and then with God’s hardening the heart of the Pharaoh. This, in the author’s mind, was the same God, then as now.

I have to confess that once I realized what Paul was actually saying—the concept struck me as grossly unfair. Initially, I wasn’t a big fan of Paul.

Despite my discomfort with something that was fast becoming a recurring theme in Paul’s writing—I kept going. By the end of 1999, I’d read the New Testament three times, using three different English translations. And while I couldn’t profess any real belief in its teachings—at least one thing had become clear to me: The New Testament was very, very different from the Mormon doctrines I’d grown up with. That, and the New Testament was compelling in a way no other book had ever been.

From 2000 on, I kept reading. I re-read the Book of Mormon, the D&C and Pearl of Great Price. I read the Jewish Publication Society’s English translation of Tanakh (the 39 books of the Hebrew Bible divided between Torah, The Prophets, and The Writings). I read The Apocrypha (“Deutercanonical Books” as some prefer), and for seeming good measure, a translation of Al Qur’an.

But aside from becoming rather formidable in Gospel Doctrine and Elders’ Quorum discussions, none of my efforts were resulting in any actual faith. The opposite was happening—my studies only served to deepen my skepticism of the church’s doctrines. And the “hope” that I had once been able to express to my bishops had largely evaporated.

Yet along the way, I lost my objection to Paul. Lost my objection to Paul’s ideas of grace and predestination, his idea of man’s total depravity, and his stubborn, repeated insistence that salvation came “not by works” but through faith—faith alone. Funny thing: Even though I could claim no faith at the time, I could plainly see how right Paul was on that last score. I’d studied my scriptures, prayed fervently, paid my tithing to the full, abstained from pornography, kept the Word of Wisdom, confessed my sexual sins to my bishop—and yet none of my works had brought me faith. Paul taught faith was a gift apportioned by God, not some reward for our own efforts. And it became increasingly evident to me that it could be no other way—no other way than what Paul had written twenty centuries before.

In early 2005 I attended an evening service at a non-denominational church that is theologically Reformed Baptist, Mars Hill Church in Seattle. The pastor was in the middle of a 12-month sermon series on Genesis. That evening, during his hour-long sermon, he read and covered every single verse in his chapter, presenting it in the context of the larger book and in the context of the Bible as a whole. It was the first time I could remember sitting in a church and hearing an entire Bible chapter read. In my LDS tradition, speakers would take a verse or two from one book, a verse or two from another and perhaps a third, and splice them together into a whole new context and meaning (invariably supporting LDS doctrine)—that often had nothing to with the original authors’ intent (at least it seemed to me). I was immediately drawn to the pastor’s approach to the Bible and I returned each Sunday evening to hear more (while still going to my LDS services in the mornings).

After a long night in prayer in early June of that year I yielded to God’s irresistible grace and became a Christian and was baptized later that summer. I resigned from the LDS Church shortly thereafter (although the resignation process proved something of an ordeal, lasting ~ 9 months and requiring repeated calls to Salt Lake City). I now enjoy a church where the Bible is held as inerrant and Jesus is worshiped as God. And since that time God has blessed me with a wife, and on the evening of December 24th 2008, a daughter. The awkward, misfit, “Single Adult” I once was—has been given a new life. And I know I owe it all to Grace. These days I lead a small group Bible study out of our house, and we’re now up to about 20 people. We’re currently studying 1 John on Tuesday nights, in the University District in Seattle, just a few blocks up from my old Mormon ward.

Anyway, I won’t have a ton of time to post here—but wanted to give folks a little background so they could have some perspective when I do. And if you happen to be in the greater Seattle metropolitan area—I’m always up for grabbing a drink and having a conversation.

In Christ,

--Erik

Hi Erik,

Welcome to the site and " No " Ceeboo doesn't hate you :)

I would suggest ( if I may ) you try doing a little reading :lol:

Peace,

Ceeboo

[skalenfehl]

Loudmouth, you're alright. As long as rules aren't broken, folks are free to express their opinions regardless of what religion they hold to.

Terms & Conditions » LDS Mormon Network

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

Thank you for your posting, Erik. Like you, I was born to a long-time LDS family (Parley P. Pratt is one of my many pre-Utah Mormon ancestors) and it didn't take. I started as and still am a skeptic and it was extremely interesting to compare our experiences.

I'm particularly interested in how LDS people wind up in other mainline religions. I think that that's fairly rare. Most "conversions" seem to be to agnosticism or atheism or, on the other hand, to other versions of Mormonism.

[Misshalfway]

Hate you? Why on earth would anyone here hate you? But I suppose I can understand that fear.

And you aren't new are you? Seems I have seen you before.

And just one question......how did you go from believing the Godhead to the Trinity? Pretty amazing jump there. Just like to understand the process by which you came to your conclusions.

[applepansy]

Welcome Erik. I look forward to your future posts.

applepansy

[georgia2]

.

I feel that it must be harder for those born into the church to loving LDS parents, they have the spirit all around them from the word go, so as you grow up this love of the Holy Ghost is all around you, you are used to it being there.

We converts find becoming members of such a loving community so overwhelming, it is a huge change to anything we have experienced before in our lives, we have the joy of the holy spirit literally over powering our very own spirits, which is all so very new and shocking to us, we are truly blessed for this new experience.

But you guys are also so very blessed to have been given a "Head start", to have had these beautiful teachings, to have heard so much talk about Heavenly fathers love, and the teachings of Jesus, throughout your youth.

I do feel that you are blessed, and you guys do continue to be our teachers, both Morally and spiritually.

I read here a lot about you guys that are born into the "Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints" a lot of you say that you feel nothing when you pray for an answer from heavenly father, then maybe just maybe it is because you are already because of your lineage through your parents and grandparents, that you already have your answers through your upbringing, the "feelings" that you are looking for are already there, we as converts do not already know so when these experiences happen we are able to recognize the changes and it is most beautiful to us.

I hope you know what i am talking about here. I would love to have been born into the church, being taught the true path of life from my beginning of life on earth, but i also am so grateful for being able to recognize The power of the Holy ghost over my reborn spirit into the church.

I agree whole heartedly. I just heard this exact analogy yesterday as I was listening to a talk on BYU. The speaker said that children born into homes where the parents are active members are raised in a home that has that spirit of light and comfort in their home already. When they get older they don't realize that they have been feeling it their whole lives. He stated that people who were not raised in the in the church are able to recognize that spirit because it is so overwhelming and new to them. Not to say that people who are not members can't or don't have the spirit with them. BUT, as members who have received the GIFT of the Holy Ghost have the blessing of having him present at all times.

of course I felt the Spirit before I was a member, but as I learned about the church and began to pray and ask for revelation and answers to "IS THE CHURCH TRUE?" I had miracles happen in front of my eyes in answer to prayers and that sweet overwhelming feeling I hadn't had before. When I visited the church I also had experiences that were overwhelming. If I had been raised in the church, I might not have been able to recognize them so acutely.

[MormonMema]

I think maybe one difference between converts and those who are born into a long, illustrious lineage of LDS heritage, is that converts have to study, pray, and even fight for our testimonies. It isn't just handed to us on a silver platter. We don't get the early teaching in Primary, unless we are called to teach in Primary. In my case, I was blessed to be the teacher for the Sunbeams, Stars, and CTRs, so I had a chance to grow in the gospel a little. We don't get to be Young Men or Young Women, most of us get the teachings in Gospel Essentials, Relief Society, and Priesthood. We don't have a family backing us up, or encouraging us. In some cases, in fact, family and friends are doing everything possible to discourage us, which is probably one reason there is a problem with convert retention.

One thing to remember is this: Nobody can live very long on borrowed light, or borrowed testimony. It is up to each individual to seek for the Truth, study, pray, and live the gospel principles. It is in the living of the principles that the testimony grows, even as we are told, in the Book of Mormon, Alma 32:27, that we must experiment to prove the words, so we must experiment to prove the principles. That is how we get a testimony. Also, we need to study and pray with the right intent, or the right purpose. I don't believe that means to force an answer in a desperate attempt to convert so you can marry a certain person on a certain timetable. A true testimony can't be forced. The Spirit speaks on His own timetable. It's when we get impatient that we run into trouble, and become vulnerable to being misled, by our own desires, or by more sinister forces.

[mavreenrose]

Thanks for that! I can fairly relate. My grandmother and mother were the first converts and I grew up in the church. I attended primary, we had family home evenings and family prayer , and we were sealed in the temple. These things probably seem pretty elementary to most born in the church, but in the Philippines, these things (especially temple attendance) were pretty much a big deal. My father used to be a bishop... and then he left the church. And that was quite a blow to the family.

For several years, my family struggled through inactivity. I never finished seminary. I attended church whenever I was home due to my grandmother's insistence. (I went to high school in a neighboring province and I never set foot in a church there)

But when I went off to college in still a different province, I decided to seek my own testimony. I did share my testimony when I was younger but I always felt I was thriving on borrowed testimony. That time, I decided I had to find out for sure.

I looked for a ward near my school and I attended regularly. At first i was hesitant to attend institute, but I was amazed at how I can actually apply the principles taught to me. I kept attending church and at first I just attended merely to 'comply".. But little by little I was changing. I kept reading the Book of Mormon and though at first I was a skeptic, I found myself changing in so many ways... My friends said my countenance changed as days passed. I was given callings and at first though I was grudging of the time I'd lose out on my studies.. I began to enjoy it.... And eventually, I knew then that the church is true, and that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and that the Book of Mormon is true.

I am glad to have had a head start yet I am also grateful that I had the opportunity to find the church myself. Getting a testimony requires a bit of faith and a lot of effort - and then it's a feedback mechanism.. A bit of testimony gives you more faith and inspires you to give more effort..

[Lyle]

I think this thread helped build some strong testimonies and make strong ones greater.

whatever your intentions here, MY name is Lyle im more new than you but welcome. I Love You

[daynf]

Before I post my own introduction, I thought I would comment on your journey. There is no reason that anyone should hate you for your faith in God. God works in mysterious ways and sometimes calls a person in a direction that seems unorthodox to others. The path that God has put you on is obviously more important to His grand plan than the path you were on previously. A Hindu Priest once told me that faith is like a mountain. At the base, things on one side of the mountain seem very different from the other side of the mountain. However, as you climb higher and higher up the mountain, your faith seems closer and closer to that of the other side of the mountain. And when you reach the top, you realize that everyone was climbing toward the same point. That point is God, and He does not abandon his children around the world just because some happen to climb the mountain differently.