Depression, Negative Thoughts and Drugs


HoosierGuy
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Well, for the last few months I have been seeing a Church therapist. I went to him because I thought I had a problem talking in front of people.

He said I was more depressed than anything else.

So, here I am facing negative thoughts. I am at a constant war with negative thoughts. I feel like I'm in WW2 - Me against the negative thoughts. And most times I lose the battle and war.

I'm still seeing the therapist. He says I'm making progress. He says I'm in the process of getting out of depression. He says there will be ups and downs for me.

I've realized tho that most of my life has been made up of negative thoughts. I'm at war with myself. My mind seems to be controlled by negative thoughts. I also focus on small, unimportant things, and get angry and depressed over them, even when I know I should not get angry over them.

What makes things worse is - I have my agency. As I do wrong, am I acting my way right out of the CelestialKingdom? Does Heavenly Father understand that I've had these negative thoughts since I was 12 years old and just now I'm trying to deal with them?

What about drugs for depression? Do I want to ask my therapist about those? I don’t think I have a chemical imbalance. But if everybody else takes drugs for depression, then why not me? I'm a little scared about those drugs tho - I'm afraid they will take away my agency and I don’t want that. But why not? I discovered the Church online. It's the modern age. Why not drugs to help me be happy? I still don’t want to tho. I'm scared where they might lead me.

So, have any of you suffered from negative thoughts? How do you overcome them?

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There are studies that show you can change your brain chemistry by changing your thoughts. Medications change brain chemistry too. Whether you decide to try the medications or try to control your thoughts without medications is up to you. What is right for one person sometimes isn't right for another.

I know that's not very helpful.

What I do know is my own experience. When the negativte thoughts start for me I keep a blessings journal, I sing hymns (usually I am a Child of God), I'll listening to an uplifting talk on tape (John Bytheway makes me laugh while teaching important gospel principles). Pray. Pray. Pray. and Pray again.

There are other ways to change your thoughts. be creative

I'll try to find the article about this subject that was in Newsweek a month or so ago. I think I posted it on another thread.

applepansy

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From what I understand, there are no drugs to make you 'happy'. They may help you lift your load so that you don't dwell on certain thoughts all day, but they can't make you truly happy. Living the gospel as best you can is the prescription for that.

I think you should talk to your therapist about the possiblity of using drugs to help you become more balanced. Drugs, taken properly and under supervision, can be a tremendous aid in recovering from a variety of issues. It is possible, however, that he may want to try other types of therapy before recommending prescriptions in your particular case. Drugs, while they are helpful to a great many people, also carry dangerous side effects which can cause certain people to become worse or have psychotic episodes. He, and you, need to consider the benefits versus the potential dangers of your individual case. I suggest you bring this up with him and talk through the progress you have made and whether drugs will be able to help your hinder your recovery. You may find that the best thing to do is to continue down the same path of treatment you are currently on. Good luck.

As for your other questions, I believe that God will judge us far less harsh than we would judge ourselves. He knows you better than you know yourself, and he also knows about your mental health issues and your attempts to correct them.

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I have to agree w/ Applepansy about it being up to you on whether or not you start a medication. What people need to remember is that depression is a disease. Diabetes is treated w/ medication as is numerous other conditions so can depression be treated. I do believe that individuals need to make informed decissions about what ever path the choose to take (medication vs non).

I too have dealt w/ negative thoughts and impatience. I have choosen to try herbal/nateral remadies instead of prescriptions. I have just started so I can't tell you if they are working, but I do feel positive about it!!

Heavenly Father is mindful of you, He knows your strength and your weaknesses.

**the fact that you know and are seeing a therapist is a huge step in the right direction!!!**

Edited by lestertheemt
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In the brain there are chemicals that help the brain function. Sometimes these chemicals are not working right, or are in an imbalance. This imbalance can be caused by a lot of things even philological (problems that are of a physical nature) situations. Sometimes no matter what sort of psychotherapy (talking to the therapist) you do, it can't help get these chemicals back into the way they need to be so that you feel okay. A lot of the medications that are used to treat brain disorders help the chemicals get back into balance.

I can't give you much personal insight into these medications, as I have not been on them myself. And I don't know how much help professional insight is when faced with personal issues. But I do hope something that I said is helpful. :)

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Hi HoosierGuy,

When I was around 12, I was a victim of bullying at school which has a deep negative influence on me. Particularly my self esteem. For many years I have carried the burden of negative thoughts, even long after high school. At one stage I had a nervous break down because I couldn't cope well as I was too depressed. I was afraid to do things because I was too worried about what people thought about me. I went through a series of things, which I won't mention because of the pain. It gets tiring feeling gloomy all the time. But what I do know is that I recovered from it by first working on my own image, like I started to go to the gym. After a while it helped me feel good about my appearance. I changed my hair style to come out of my comfort zone. I choose to eat healthier. I soon found myself getting stronger and feeling more confident. More positive thoughts were coming to me about myself, or at least I was not so much paranoid about the little things. I started to set goals to do some of the things I've dreamed of when I was younger, I accomplished many of them and it made me less depressed. Along the way, I made new friends, one who was a member of the church introduced me to the missionaries. Finding a testimony of Jesus Christ finished the healing process for me. There was like a huge hole in my heart, empty, and coming to know the Saviour had filled the emptiness.

I still had some negative thoughts until I learned to love myself (just accepting the way I am) and to find the things I loved to do. I also feel lucky I found really good supportive and positive friends. They helped alot.

Nowadays whenever I feel down, it is easier to pick myself up again. Sometimes not enough sleep effects positive thoughts, I try to get to bed early so I can get enough rest for the next day.

I didn't take any drugs, my body seemed heal it self. I'm not sure if it is the same for you but there is hope if you go out to look for it. Surround yourself with positive people. The ones who you can just be yourself with. If not, lots of people in this forum are really supportive and good people.

I hope this was helpful.

Edited by nzorient
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This imbalance can be caused by a lot of things even philological (problems that are of a physical nature) situations.

I think you mean physiological. Philology is literary study. So if the brain imbalance were caused by... Say... Classical Greek Literature, then yes. It could be a philological problem. ;)

philology: Definition from Answers.com

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The books "The Myth of Self Esteem" and "Confronting the Myth of Self Esteem" by Ester Rasband are excellent. She is an LDS author and approaches this subject from a gospel perspective. Her book helped me personally and in other ways.

Ester Rasband

Ester Rasband was born in Seattle, Washington. She is the youngest of ten children born to immigrant parents who were converts to the LDS Church.

She graduated from Brigham Young University with a bachelor’s degree in English. She received the College of Humanities Honored Alumni Award from that institution in 2001 in recognition of her book Confronting the Myth of Self-Esteem. She has a marked interest in the Old Testament and has done graduate work in ancient Near Eastern studies.

Ester, who has written for the Ensign magazine and other publications, is also the author of Man and Woman, Joy in Oneness, What Think You of Christmas? and Mother Love.

She is married to James E. Rasband, a retired radiologist. They have served two missions—the first when Brother Rasband presided in the Canada Montreal Mission and the second when he served as second counselor in the presidency of the Missionary Training Center in Provo, Utah.

The Rasbands, who live in Provo, have two sons and seven grandchildren.

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Hi Hoosier. I fight negative thoughts. Bet my negative thoughts could beat your negative thoughts..... Hahaha. Just kidding.

I know what you mean when you call it a battle and even a war....one you often lose. I do find that the more I fight directly against my negative thoughts....like arguing with them or asking them to stop being there ....I usually lose. For me, what helps is making sure I pre-emptively put good thoughts about myself in my head and give myself permission to love myself INCLUDING my weak points and my deficits, which are many.

I think sometimes we forget to be kind to ourselves in our thinking or even easy going on ourselves or humorous with ourselves when we make mistakes or when outcomes with relationships or other things don't turn out the way we hoped.

I think it also helps to identify lies or distortions in our thinking and call them out. It may take a long while to change the pattern, but dedicated commitment to proper thinking and loving with ourselves does eventually take hold.

The other day I walked past the mirror. Normally, I would have, you know, eaten my own lunch! This time I genuinely saw a beautiful person ..... and in my surprise I took that home to the bank. Finally....a little victory.

You keep up the work. Make it a kind and gentle work. Make your voice to yourself be the voice of the Savior.....even if you need to borrow it for a time until you get there on your own.

Much love.

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I'm going to need way more than twelve sessions with the therapist.

I need lots of work for sure.

We all need a lot of work. You're not alone. I'm glad you're seeing a therapist.

Can I suggest 12 sessions with your Heavenly Father? I know when I take the time to really have a conversation with my Heavenly Father miracles happen.

applepansy

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Hoosier,

I think we all have negative thoughts but sometimes those negative thoughts get too overwhelming. Seeing a therapist is a great step in overcoming negative thoughts and behaviors. Good for you for recognizing that you need help and getting that help. Too many people think it's "bad" or "weak" to ask for therapy. Good for you for being strong and asking for help when you need it.

Something I've read that helped me and you may think it helpful. Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy - Borders - Books, Music and Movies I got this book from my library (I live in Indianapolis--if your local library doesn't have it, ask about a library-to-library loan and you might be able to get it from our central library in Indianapolis).

This book specifically talks about negative thoughts and how to overcome them. You could ask your therapist about this book to see if he/she recommends it.

Good luck to you. You've got a lot of friends here on lds. net who care about you. Always feel free to post or PM someone if you need a comforting "ear."

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I am glad I found this thread actually. I've been having a negative thought day . I've been moody, and slightly depressed all day today. Now I don't consider myself always depressed or always negative. I can tell when I feel pesmistic and feel like it's going to be bad day. Other days I am very happy, out going and feel really postive. But today has been a bit pity partyish

I read the scriptures, I listen to music, I watch a movie that up lifts my sprits. I do something to help uplift my sprits. Sometimes I also journal or write something about my mood. Sometimes getting it out on paper does help. I remember one time I got it out on paper I cried and cried afterwards but I felt so much better putting my thoughts down on paper. As for drugs, I am generally one that tends to be nervous about drugs espically ones that effect thought and brain chemistry, but that's just my opinion.

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Just a quick response here, but there are several things studies have shown that increase endorphins, which elevates our moods to be happy. (This isn't meant to replace therapy or anything, but just a checklist to refer to when feeling down). I don't have the research handy, but I'll look any of the research up if you want to see it firsthand.

1) Exercise - natural endorphin releaser

2) Taking a shower and grooming - increases endorphins.

3) Having regular social activities with positive people - natural endorphin releaser

4) Sunshine

5) Sex

6) Not research based, but Pres Uchtdorff told us to find someone with a worse situation and serve them. By helping them fix their problem, he said we'll find our problem will disappear or be easier to manage.

.

These are findings I have read/heard about most recently. I'm sure there are more. I've been in a frumpy mood the past couple weeks and have been forcing myself, to take showers, do my hair and makeup, and then go outside for some time. I also actively forced myself to go serve some families in my ward. It's hard work. I haven't felt like doing much of anything, since I've been feeling so lost and overwhelmed. But if I can just act on the most basic level to things that do work, I figure I'm going to be okay in the long run, which it looks my current crisis is going to be.....long!

Edited by Sequoia
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As a medical student and someone who has battled depression for years now, I can tell you that drugs are a wonderful option. In our society, we tend to view mental health as a very black-and-white area--you're either sane or you're, well, not :). People are very hesitant to question the state of their mental health, which is, IMO, very myopic.

I view mental health as I do physical health--everyone has had a cold at some point in their lives. When you get sick, do you deny it? Do you figure it's just a bad day and tomorrow will be better? Most people suck it up, see a doctor, and take the Robitussin until they feel better. I think that everyone, like having a cold, is at least mildly mentally sick at some point in their lives--be it depression, anxiety, OCD, PTSD, what have you. It would be a shame to ignore one's feelings or dismiss them as just a "bad day/week/month/year", or to assume that one simply doesn't have enough faith (I've heard that one a time or two and it just makes me cringe--"you wouldn't feel so bad if you just prayed/read your scriptures/fulfilled your calling more...").

It's great that you're seeing someone about your depression--DEFINITELY a step in the right direction. You may want to consider medication in addition to therapy. For most, it works, and it's a great way to feel balanced again. Nothing works 100%--I still have days that aren't so good. But it's definitely something to think about. Best of luck to you--you're not alone :)!!

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HoosierGuy, you and I need to go out and do something sometime.

I've struggled with clinical depression all my life, and I've found that in the war against negative thoughts, you don't lose as much as might think you do. Then again, you may lose as much as you think you do. It's really confusing.

One of my therapists explained thoughts in a way to me that helped me cope with a certain problem I was having. He said that we hear things in our everyday lives that affect us more than we like to think. Casual insults (or 'teasing') such as "you're stupid", "you're ugly", "you're worthless", etc. dig into the core of our being and let down their poisonous roots. Later, we play those phrases over and over again in our heads: they become our own personal 'tape recordings' that dictate who we are to ourselves.

Part of recovery is learning to A) identify when the tapes are playing, B.) identify what the tapes are saying, and C) learning how to effectively replace those negative messages with positive messages. Once you've gotten those three items mastered, the key is total immersion (like baptism). You must immerse yourself in a wave of good thoughts in whichever way works best for you: write yourself happy thoughts (that specifically reflect positively on you as a person) and stick them on the bathroom mirror, on the refrigerator, etc.; memorize a few key phrases like "I'm a good person", "I'm a nice guy", "I'm a handsome fellow!", etc. and repeat them to yourself whenever you start to feel attacked by bad thoughts; whatever works. Part of the recovery process is learning how you specifically are affected by the depression, and how you specifically can overcome it. During this process, keeping a specific 'depression journal' can help greatly- write down any progress, breakthroughs, or frustrations you have with overcoming your depression.

The most important thing, though, is to keep close to Heavenly Father throughout your struggles. Since time immemorial, His children have dealt with depression, and the atonement covers all of it: the bad feelings, any sins we commit because of our depression, the remorse we feel- all of it! Never, at any time, let your grip on the iron rod falter- it will prove your ultimate salvation from those thoughts.

Good luck man! Keep us posted, and keep seeing your therapist (and a psychiatrist if needed). If you want to talk one-on-one about anything, I'm always free- PM me if you feel so inclined.

-Maxel

Edited by Maxel
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Multiple fronts can beat this.

Understand the discomfort of your thoughts stimulate adrenaline, the neurotransmitter that burns them in, so it is an OCD cycle. This can be broken more easily than you would think, which may not make it easy. I wish I could say more and have it make sense in a short sentence. Check out the studies I put on my profile I threw together. Brain conditioning has helped a lot of people. That is rather unconventional. For breaking OCD cycle, challenge the thought, but in a way that is not challenging. I wish I could explain briefly, will try here. There are different parts of your mind. Take them all off the troubling thought, not just the 'stage', but take the emotion to another place as well. You get your mind off it, but you can still FEEL it. This nags and burns it in, even when the mind thinks it went somewhere else to avoid this. Take in a 6 count breath. Be grateful for something. You are breathing in gratitude, for your family, the sun, whatever you are grateful for that builds your spirit as well, maybe don't feed worldliness too much, but use your own internal gauge. As you fill your heart with gratitude on the inhale, now that it's full, do a 6 count exhale and feel it circulate to every end of your body. Do this again. This has everything to do with what and how you are (grateful) and nothing at all to do with how you are not, whether it is thinking about someone, playing at a park, flying an airplane, or thinking a troubling thought. This gratitude is an antidote to many emotional ills. You are grateful. Period. Spiritually, this helps in ways that should be readily observable, and physiologically this calms brain centers, doubles your lymph flow, and if the air's any good where you are, it increases oxygen to the body. It isn't nearly as powerful if you aren't grateful and then pump it through your body. This can erase a lot of emotion that you think may not erase otherwise. Give it a try. There is more, but I say this will help break that cycle and recondition those automated brain centers to be happy. Think Pavlovs dogs. That bell could mean food is coming so they salivate, they are going to get beaten with a stick so they're scared, they are going to be petted so they get excited. The point being is we are conditionable in many ways, and this focus on the breath bridges the conscious/subconscious a little since you have both conscious and subconscious control of your breath, calms the brain, reconditions its base state with enough practice. I have also had success getting Candida out more convincingly on the physical battlefront than I have in the past, avoiding food allergies and cheap sugar helps too. Fine ice cream and chocolates aren't as bad an assault as something icky out of the vending machine. You can do it. Remember that part. There is no question without an answer, so there is an answer. :D Hang in there. Maybe a search for cognitive behavioral therapy can give some ideas. It seems like it is a demon you fight with, and maybe it is, but don't fight it. One of the times I did this I literally had the sense that the thing I was walking away from called me a chicken, like a boy in grade school walking away from a fight. I kept walking. Fly above it. Don't fight it, you will burn it in and keep the auger turning deeper. Jesus never said he wouldn't turn a rock to a stone, to fight the temptation. He said man doesn't live by bread alone, directing his survival and impulse to live it could be made to appear, to every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. It wasn't like 'I won't turn that rock to bread. Or that one. Or that one! Oh no, another one!' Do you sense the contrast? He seems to have succeeded on the first statement. We need a little more practice. The OCD cycle could have been bad on that one. Hang in there and get good help. Use your little internal radar when seeing who can help you. If you want right, it will lead you right.

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Oh, another important thing, after you have succeeded in winning this round, however brief, take a few moments to enjoy the victory. ENJOY IT! It didn't win this time! Go to your happy place. :) Maybe set a time aside to practice. Bring it to you in a controlled environment, and practice gratitude breathing it away. Send me a note if you have questions. I have been there and think I have a handle on a few of the fronts it can hit from, still a work in progress though.

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So let’s say I have decided to go on anti-depressant medication. My next appointment with the therapist is not till Feb 18th. I don’t want to wait that long to see him, tell him I want to try meds, and then go to some one else to get the meds. I’m kind of desperate right now.

What are my options? Go to the family doctor and tell her I’ve been seeing a therapist and I want anti-depressant drugs? Go to a psychiatrist and tell him/her I’m seeing a therapist and I want anti-depressant drugs? Do I call the therapist and tell him I want to try drugs and have him send a report my family doctor or psychiatrist?

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I've battled depression pretty intensely for the last 25 years. I believe that it stems largely from growing up in a family where affection and emotion were never really expressed, constant social rejection throughout childhood and adolescence, and a dash of physical and sexual abuse when younger. However, it's not so important where it came from. The question I've learned to ask myself is, "What am I going to do about it NOW?"

The David Burns book is quite helpful, though a bit difficult to digest. I wouldn't recommend reading it when in a funk, because it does require quite a bit of self-analysis. It's best to implement the exercises when your spirits are up and you're thinking more clearly--then when you really need it, the process will be more or less automatic.

One book that I've found very helpful is "Eternal Values and Personal Growth" by Allen E. Bergin, who is sort of the granddaddy of gospel-oriented therapy. The book roughly follows a sequence of ideas:

  • We have a divine, eternal nature as literal offspring of God
  • At birth and afterwards, we inherit genetic predispositions and environmentally-influenced traits (the "mortal overlay"). This is NOT our true identity.
  • We are influenced either for good or ill by family, society, etc.
  • Our mortal experience can either enhance or impair our God-given agency. This happens both through our own choices and the choices of others that affect us. One of the great challenges of life is to learn to develop our agency and to use it in righteousness.
  • We grow spiritually as we develop integrity, use our power righteously, and learn to relate to others in a healthy way.
  • Intimacy, expressed properly, allows us to progress. Improper use of intimacy and isolation hold us back.
  • The chief aim of life is to progress. Stagnation keeps us from realizing our potential.

I highly recommend this book. It draws on scripture, the teachings of Church leaders, and the best thinking in psychology. I find it tremendously healing, and most important, it teaches Truth about who we really are. (You can read a sample of it here.)

I also recommend a talk given at BYU a few years ago by Carrie Wrigley (an associate of Bergin's). It's called "Christ-Centered Healing from Depression and Low Self-Worth", and it is wonderful. She acknowledges that medication can be helpful, but that there are better ways (which she discusses briefly). An outline of her talk can be accessed here.

God bless. I've been there (and still am, in fact) and can attest to the hell that depression can be. Fortunately, we now know a lot more about the brain and how it works, and anybody suffering from depression can at least do something to better manage it. It might not go away, but there are always things we can do.

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