Were Adam and Eve born?


thedorman
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I asked the question a while back and no one responded. For those that believe Adam and Eve were not born - the question is: Is being born not a creation? If it is then why do you believe G-d has changed the manner and method in which he creates. Are you speculating that we are created differently than Adam or do you have any scripture that has given you that impression.

Which also begs the question - Is the Bible truly canon (complete) or is there important stuff left out - as in this case; the true doctrine of creation.

The Traveler

As I keep talking about Eve was indeed capable of having children due to the words of the cursing from GOD. It was not instituted after leaving the Garden but still possible. The problem with having children in the Garden was knowledge. As I do believe that Adam was not completely held from the veil in the beginning prior to Eve's arrival since he had the ability of naming the creation.

What we learned at times through the Spirit of instruction, has to be unlearned. ^_^

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As I keep talking about Eve was indeed capable of having children due to the words of the cursing from GOD. It was not instituted after leaving the Garden but still possible. The problem with having children in the Garden was knowledge. As I do believe that Adam was not completely held from the veil in the beginning prior to Eve's arrival since he had the ability of naming the creation.

What we learned at times through the Spirit of instruction, has to be unlearned. ^_^

Did you post to answer my question - since you quoted it? Are you a creation of G-d? If you are, has G-d changed how he creates man? If you believe G-d no longer creates as is spoken of in Genesis - where in scripture does that doctrine come from? If not is scripture - where is that revelation given? The spirit whispers to me that G-d's methods and the same today as yesterday and always and if he should change his method for any reason he would tell his prophets first. I believe the method of G-d in creating man is through the process of birth through sexual encounter of a man and a woman.

Is there another method I do not know about? If so and someone knows of this method please inform me.

The Traveler

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Ha ha that's funny - Remember when Adam was put on Earth his body was still eternal and he and Eve probably weren't ageing, until they ate the fruit of the tree of life, then they became mortal, and would have then started to age. So how could he have possibly been a baby?

Well, if you hold a Trinitarian view of the Godhead, my theory won't make much sense to you.

I am not suggesting that my theory is the official LDS position. It is just what I think happened.

If I were a god of flesh and bone, with a female companion, and it was time to populate the earth -- the obvious solution would be to create the bodies of Adam and Eve myself.

Also, I am not sure about there being just ONE pair of "Adam and Eve". I think there were many pairs created at the same time. Enough to provide for diversity in the gene pool. Otherwise you'd have brothers and sisters marrying each other and a real mess, genetically.

I think Adam and Eve were a TYPE.

I am not asking anyone to agree with me. I am just stating what makes the most sense to me as to how the human race got started.

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As I keep talking about Eve was indeed capable of having children due to the words of the cursing from GOD. It was not instituted after leaving the Garden but still possible. The problem with having children in the Garden was knowledge. As I do believe that Adam was not completely held from the veil in the beginning prior to Eve's arrival since he had the ability of naming the creation.

What we learned at times through the Spirit of instruction, has to be unlearned. ^_^

What are you talking about?

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Did you post to answer my question - since you quoted it? Are you a creation of G-d? If you are, has G-d changed how he creates man? If you believe G-d no longer creates as is spoken of in Genesis - where in scripture does that doctrine come from? If not is scripture - where is that revelation given? The spirit whispers to me that G-d's methods and the same today as yesterday and always and if he should change his method for any reason he would tell his prophets first. I believe the method of G-d in creating man is through the process of birth through sexual encounter of a man and a woman.

Is there another method I do not know about? If so and someone knows of this method please inform me.

The Traveler

Adam was the first man on earth therefor was started in a different way. I think we can say it is Gods perogitive to do as he wills, not ours to decide how something was done or is done.You see that is why we have a Prophet to direct Gods affairs on earth through revelation, so we don't error. But man can make his own interpretations of things up and thats where people can error because they make it more complicated than it actually is. So in saying that, why can't it be simple that because God is such a dab-hand at creating, could he not do it anyway he wishes!

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Well, if you hold a Trinitarian view of the Godhead, my theory won't make much sense to you.

I am not suggesting that my theory is the official LDS position. It is just what I think happened.

If I were a god of flesh and bone, with a female companion, and it was time to populate the earth -- the obvious solution would be to create the bodies of Adam and Eve myself.

Also, I am not sure about there being just ONE pair of "Adam and Eve". I think there were many pairs created at the same time. Enough to provide for diversity in the gene pool. Otherwise you'd have brothers and sisters marrying each other and a real mess, genetically.

I think Adam and Eve were a TYPE.

I am not asking anyone to agree with me. I am just stating what makes the most sense to me as to how the human race got started.

I think again that brings God down to mans level. Peace!

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To the person who posted this thread, I think you said you were quite new to LDS.......

I think this is a subject that will not matter to your salvation. The Church is true! And we are given enough information to get us through to the next estate. It doesn't matter how the Lord did what he did but to say that we are personally responsible for how we take that information he has given us.

The mysteries of the creation of man are probably something we couldn't fully understand in this life, so if it isn't revealed then what everybody is saying is just blowing in the wind, being tossed to and fro!

Peace!

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Adam was the first man on earth therefor was started in a different way. I think we can say it is Gods perogitive to do as he wills, not ours to decide how something was done or is done.You see that is why we have a Prophet to direct Gods affairs on earth through revelation, so we don't error. But man can make his own interpretations of things up and thats where people can error because they make it more complicated than it actually is. So in saying that, why can't it be simple that because God is such a dab-hand at creating, could he not do it anyway he wishes!

Exactly my point Truelykiwi

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I think again that brings God down to mans level. Peace!

It would not be the only time God has condescended in order to bless mankind.

My theory makes total sense to me.

Yes, God could have made us from the "dust" of the earth. I have no doubt that He could do it that way.

But the "home grown" method seems more personal, more intimate, more like the God I have come to know.

Ultimately, God's condescension ends up exalting Him. That is the paradox.

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Yes but the Bible doesn't say they were made the old fashioned way......Adam was made from the dust and through his nostrils was the breath of life given. Eve was made from one of Adams ribs which was literal, but at the same time symbolic of how much a part of her husband she was. Where do you get 'made the old fashioned way' out of that?

We are also made of the same substance that the dust is made of. So, this argument is fallable, as far as logic is concerned.

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No, he's not literally our Father in the flesh - only spirit.

I don't know if you're trying to make fun of me, or if you are intentionally trying to not understand, but...

Obviously, I do not believe we are His children physically (in the flesh). I know who my father is. And Christ is the Father's Only Begotten in the flesh.

So, my supposition IS that we are speaking about spiritually.

He is literally the Father of our spirit, just as it says in the Bible.

Hebrew 12:

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

...literally.

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I don't know if you're trying to make fun of me, or if you are intentionally trying to not understand, but...

No, sorry, I'm not making fun of you! My interpretation was that you meant if we we are all made of clay we would not be children of God. Sorry!

OK, it's not that technical....Adam was made of dust, as an adult, as was Eve, read the scriptures that's what it says. Then Eve was to bear children, meaning we were to be born of Eve and so forth. So, obviously the Lord first made things spiritually, then made Adam & Eves physical bodies (first immortal which then became mortal) the way he did, and gave those elements power to pro-create and multiply the way bodies do.

So yes I believe God has the power to create a body from the dust, I know Adam and Eve were created this way. But Adam and eve were then given power to make more human bodies and so forth.

Peace

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IF God were Adam's father physically as well as spiritually, then God the Father would be the father of our spirit bodies (in one generation) and the Original father of our physical bodies (utimately when we trace our lineage all the way back to Adam and beyond).

Well, Cain and Abel were not Heavenly Father's offspring. They were Adam and Eve's offspring. And, Adam was not born "flesh" in the sense of having blood. He was born immortal, without blood. His body "died" and developed blood by the Fall.

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Did you post to answer my question - since you quoted it? Are you a creation of G-d? If you are, has G-d changed how he creates man? If you believe G-d no longer creates as is spoken of in Genesis - where in scripture does that doctrine come from? If not is scripture - where is that revelation given? The spirit whispers to me that G-d's methods and the same today as yesterday and always and if he should change his method for any reason he would tell his prophets first. I believe the method of G-d in creating man is through the process of birth through sexual encounter of a man and a woman.

Is there another method I do not know about? If so and someone knows of this method please inform me.

The Traveler

I do not believe man was created out of dust of the earth since I was born of earthy parents as Adam was born of Heavenly Parents. Nothing has change from this pattern since the first Adam or Ahmen. The story given of the creation of man is a story but there is a deeper meaning that most would miss.

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What are you talking about?

Our earthly Adam and Eve was not fabrics of "molded bricks of clay" or cloned from the materials of the earth [spoken from President Young and a few others] but that GOD is revealing truths of the first Ahmen or Adams. When we understand the title and the real person known as the - CHRIST - we understand who is the first Ahmen.

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No, sorry, I'm not making fun of you! My interpretation was that you meant if we we are all made of clay we would not be children of God. Sorry!

Hmmm. I mean that if He molded Adam; fashioned Adam; sculpted Adam out of clay, then blew the breath of life into him, then Adam would be a creation, not offspring.

OK, it's not that technical....Adam was made of dust, as an adult, as was Eve, read the scriptures that's what it says. !

I believe it says that to the casual reader. Just like Christ's parables... the real meaning was hidden from us until we were meant to understand.

Genesis 2:

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Adam understood what offspring was. He understood his relation to God.

So, you say Adam was created by using dust, but Eve was created by using a rib from Adam? If you understand that literally there is inconsistency. Plus, how did Adam understand "mother" if he did not have one?

Then Eve was to bear children, meaning we were to be born of Eve and so forth.

She was to bear children, but at this point she (nor he) did not know how. It is apparent by the fact they were not ashamed when they were naked. When they partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then they were ashamed, made coverings, and hid.

So, obviously the Lord first made things spiritually, then made Adam & Eves physical bodies (first immortal which then became mortal) the way he did, and gave those elements power to pro-create and multiply the way bodies do.

So yes I believe God has the power to create a body from the dust, I know Adam and Eve were created this way. But Adam and eve were then given power to make more human bodies and so forth.

If God made something from clay, it would be clay. A rose is a rose by any other name. He cannot make offspring from clay. This is why he used seeds to teach Adam and Eve about offspring, "of it's kind." It really takes a lot of study and prayer to see it, but Adam and Eve were born or they would not be offspring of God... or could not be.

I don't mean to be difficult, but I want readers of this thread to study and pray for themselves because these truths can't be taught... they must be caught.

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