The gift of tongues (speaking other languages and angelic tongues)


mormonguy
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Alright this is for Non-LDS people who believe in the gift of tongues and for LDS who can explain it to me. My friends are Pentacostal and they speak in tongues, as they say, quite often. Is there any point in this interpretation of what the gift of tongues is?

Could I do it if I wanted to? Is it possible to speak angelic tongues? Usually when the angels (or God) aren't speaking english they're saying words that are "so great and wonderful they cannot be uttered by the mouths of men".

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Alright this is for Non-LDS people who believe in the gift of tongues and for LDS who can explain it to me. My friends are Pentacostal and they speak in tongues, as they say, quite often. Is there any point in this interpretation of what the gift of tongues is?

Could I do it if I wanted to? Is it possible to speak angelic tongues? Usually when the angels (or God) aren't speaking english they're saying words that are "so great and wonderful they cannot be uttered by the mouths of men".

I believe it is the intent of G-d to speak to every human person that lives or has ever lived; every nation, kindred, tongue and people. I have always believed that this notion implies that G-d will speak to everyone in a tongue they understand. If G-d is speaking through anyone to someone else then I believe what is spoken will be understood by those to whom G-d is speaking.

As to the concept that {they're saying words that are "so great and wonderful they cannot be uttered by the mouths of men".} is not exactly correct as I understand spiritual things. From time to time things given us from G-d can touch and affect us so deeply that there is no way to express what has happened in any language what happened. Any attempt to describe or to document our experience and understanding falls hopelessly short and deficient of the whole of what did occur.

The Traveler

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As I understand it, speaking in tongues in only the ability to speak in other languages. When the apostles spoke in tongues after receiving the holy Ghost, there were many people there of different nations all speaking different languages. When the Apostles spoke in tongues all of those people could understand what they were saying.

In todays world the need or gift of tongues is to be able to learn another language quickly, like missionaries going in the field, so they can communicate. In the scriptures it says that anytime someone speaks in tongues, there is ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSE THERE THAT UNDERSTANDS and can interpret.

In other descriptions in the scriptures where it talks about things not being able to be written, this doesn't mean it is secret, it means that man has no words to describe these things they are so wonderful. I have heard the same description from the Gospel discussions by Ancient Scripture professors in lessons as well as read it in gospel scholars series books.

There are some words in spanish that there is no words in english that means the exact same thing. All languages are this way.

As far as the language of God, He speaks through the spirit. There is no need for spoken word.

Now when you talk about people speaking in tongues in a church service, where everyone stands up and begins babbling, well, it's not from God. Go to one of their meetings. see if you feel the spirit . I bet you feel a spirit, but it won't be the Holy Ghost!

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Glossolalia, or "unknown tongues," is only clearly seen to be foreign languages in Acts 2. In the other four accounts in Acts of Spirit-baptism, it's never shown to be meant for those who didn't know the common language. Likewise, in Corinthians, a message in tongues within a congregation (i.e. one that would likely have been monolingual, unlike the gathering at Pentecost) required an interpretation (not translation), so that all could be edified. The implication is that the very process of speaking in unknown tongues is a blessing to the speaker, but that interpretation is needed, when it's public, so that all might receive the word from God.

When I "pray in unknown tongues," the Bible says my spirit is built up. I may not understand my own prayers, but God does...and he is communing with my spirit about things I may not even be conscious of yet.

Perhaps one of the greatest aspects of speaking in unknown tongues is that doing so encourages us to be poor in Spirit. We surrender the strongest and most dangerous muscle of our body--the tongue, to God's Spirit.

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Alma 29:8 states that every people receive the light and truth they are willing and ready to receive. If Pentecostals can speak in tongues through the power of God, good for them!

If we use the same or similar gift, but in a different way, good for us!

We must be sure, though, that the gifts we seek are coming from the right source. The first known instance of speaking in tongues in the LDS Church was the day Brigham Young came to see Joseph Smith. Brigham was asked to bless the food. He spake words that no one understood. Afterward, Joseph smiled and said that "Brother Brigham has spoken in the gift of tongues." Soon afterward, Joseph rebuked some people in the streets of Kirtland, who were attempting to speak in tongues, as they were not receiving it from God.

We need to remember that Satan can also speak in tongues, and so need to ensure we are getting it from the right source. Second, we have to depend upon God giving it to us in HIS manner and way. I know many missionaries experience a form of the gift of tongues, as they learn to speak difficult foreign languages.

Remember that Paul taught that it is better to prophecy than to speak in tongues (1 Cor 14). Also remember that speaking in tongues will not save a person. There are more important gifts that deal with exalting a person, and not just giving them some blessings in this life.

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Now when you talk about people speaking in tongues in a church service, where everyone stands up and begins babbling, well, it's not from God. Go to one of their meetings. see if you feel the spirit . I bet you feel a spirit, but it won't be the Holy Ghost!

georgia, you do realize that there are others (non-LDS Christians) who post on this forum that believe in the gift of tongues and see it as a very special gift.
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I think the gift of tongues is one of those gifts of the spirit that is popular because of its apparently contradictory mysticism ('oooh, they're speaking an angelic language!') and realism ('I can't understand what they're saying...'). Being LDS, the most common reference I know of to the 'gift of tongues' is the speaking in, and understanding of, languages that the speaker/hearer has no knowledge of otherwise- for example, a monolingual English speaker speaking fluent Chinese to a crowd in Hong Kong.

I've not heard of the other manifestation of this gift- the speaking of angelic tongues that cannot be understood by mortal men- nearly as much. However, I believe it does exist in some form, although I'm sure there's much more to it than the mere speaking of a heavenly language.

Like all gifts (prophecy, healing, etc.) there has been misunderstanding and abuse among those who don't quite understand it. I once saw an LDS friend of mine backed into a corner by a group of Protestant (I think Baptist?) boys who were babbling incoherently and claiming to be speaking 'in tongues'. There's also congregations who gather and work themselves into a 'spiritual' frenzy ('holy rollers' I've heard them called) and do all manners of things they claim are caused by the spirit: rolling around on the ground, prophesying, speaking in tongues, etc. Clearly, a congregation that makes that its normal practice is also led by a perverted spirit, if we are to believe that the gifts of the spirit are manifested by God's power and for His purposes, and not catalyzed by the whims and schedule of man.

I also agree with Traveler about the reason the uttering of angels may be 'so great and wonderful they cannot be uttered by the mouths of men'. If the angels were speaking in an incomprehensible language, then how could the men hearing understand their words to be 'great and wonderful'? If the men were given the power to understand the language, than the only reason the words could not be interpreted would be the spiritual impact of the angels' words was so profound, that merely repeating the words would do the actual message such disservice as to render it an entirely different message. Otherwise, the hearers would be able to piece together at least a rough translation.

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Per Boyd K. Packard

Nephi explains clearly what happens after baptism and confirmation and the reception of the Holy Ghost: “Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water [which is a symbolic witness of repentance]; and then cometh [the promise of cleansing for] a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost” (2 Nephi 31:17).

We sometimes speak of baptism for the remission of sins. The remission, if you will read the scriptures carefully, comes through the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.

“And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way.” Here is someone who has been baptized and received the Holy Ghost, and they wonder what they are to do. Nephi answers: “But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts?

“Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

Per Bruce McConkie:

We believe in the gift of tongues” (A of F 1:7).

According to the Prophet Joseph Smith, the purpose of the gift of tongues is to preach the gospel “among those whose language is not understood” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith [1976], 148–49).

Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum of the Twelve explained: “In their more dramatic manifestations [the gift of tongues and their interpretation] consist in speaking or interpreting, by the power of the Spirit, a tongue which is completely unknown to the speaker or interpreter. … Frequently these gifts are manifest where the ordinary languages of the day are concerned in that the Lord’s missionaries learn to speak and interpret foreign languages with ease, thus furthering the spread of the message of the restoration” (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd edition [1966], 800).

“It is Given to Some to Speak with Tongues” (D&C 46:24)

Sister Rhonda Patten Grow experienced the gift of tongues in a way familiar to many missionaries. When her husband was called from the United States to be a mission president in Uruguay, she was afraid she couldn’t learn to speak Spanish. But gradually, with the help of members, she finally learned to bear her testimony in Spanish. She was amazed, however, at how much more she could say when under the influence of the Spirit. “In fact, the Spirit helped me so much when I spoke in meetings that the members usually assumed my Spanish was much better than it actually was.”

At one meeting, Sister Grow noticed a young woman signing for a sister who was deaf. When Sister Grow stood to speak, “it seemed as if the Spirit gave me utterance beyond my own abilities. I was filled with feelings of love for the people, and I especially noticed the smiling face of the young deaf woman looking up at me.”

Sister Grow learned later that when she began to speak, the deaf woman communicated that she no longer needed signing interpretation. She could understand Sister Grow’s message without it.

“Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do” (2 Nephi 32:1

Edited by lilered
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Clearly, a congregation that makes that its normal practice is also led by a perverted spirit, if we are to believe that the gifts of the spirit are manifested by God's power and for His purposes, and not catalyzed by the whims and schedule of man.

I'm kinda amazed by these statements. How do you know this? I met a family years ago who attended a church described exactly like the above quote. IMO, they were a lovely family. I must say that attending one of their church services was an experience and not how I prefer to worship. But knowing how wonderful this family was, I would never in my right mind tell them that how they worshipped God was perverted. May I suggest a thought; if a non-Mormon attended a regular LDS church service (SM) and then became a fly on the wall and witnessed a session in an LDS temple, how would you explain the difference to them? What you feel is a wonderful experience in your Temple, may not seem the same to an outsider. In similar fashion, how other faiths worship will seem strange to LDS; but it doesn't mean they're wrong or perverted.
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I'm kinda amazed by these statements. How do you know this? I met a family years ago who attended a church described exactly like the above quote. IMO, they were a lovely family. I must say that attending one of their church services was an experience and not how I prefer to worship. But knowing how wonderful this family was, I would never in my right mind tell them that how they worshipped God was perverted. May I suggest a thought; if a non-Mormon attended a regular LDS church service (SM) and then became a fly on the wall and witnessed a session in an LDS temple, how would you explain the difference to them? What you feel is a wonderful experience in your Temple, may not seem the same to an outsider. In similar fashion, how other faiths worship will seem strange to LDS; but it doesn't mean they're wrong or perverted.

Not to pick sides but:::::::::::::::::: I pick Maureen :lol::lol::lol:

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.....

When I "pray in unknown tongues," the Bible says my spirit is built up. I may not understand my own prayers, but God does...and he is communing with my spirit about things I may not even be conscious of yet.

Perhaps one of the greatest aspects of speaking in unknown tongues is that doing so encourages us to be poor in Spirit. We surrender the strongest and most dangerous muscle of our body--the tongue, to God's Spirit.

Please forgive me for not understanding what you are trying to say. I ask this question to clarify what you mean but that I do not get it???

What is the sense in praying in an unknown tongue? Would not G-d understand regardless of what tongue you spoke? Therefore, the only purpose that such a thing would be in my mind is so that you do not understand your own prayer. If G-d forgives those that do not know what they do – why would he bless those that do not know what they do? This concept about G-d does not bode well to my understanding of his nature.

Also I would like to clarify something about the “poor” in spirit. I think we of our modern era have a tendency to interpret this incorrectly. Anciently, the rich because they had much and were selfish with their riches were not considered to be rich spiritually. There were also the poor that in spirit were not selfish but giving of whatever they had (as for example the widow that have of her all in offering a mite). I think we would understand this term better in our society if we were to call it “rich” in spirit but poor as to the things of the world.

The Traveler

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I'm kinda amazed by these statements. How do you know this? I met a family years ago who attended a church described exactly like the above quote. IMO, they were a lovely family. I must say that attending one of their church services was an experience and not how I prefer to worship. But knowing how wonderful this family was, I would never in my right mind tell them that how they worshipped God was perverted. May I suggest a thought; if a non-Mormon attended a regular LDS church service (SM) and then became a fly on the wall and witnessed a session in an LDS temple, how would you explain the difference to them? What you feel is a wonderful experience in your Temple, may not seem the same to an outsider. In similar fashion, how other faiths worship will seem strange to LDS; but it doesn't mean they're wrong or perverted.

Sometimes I write more quickly than I ought, and don't think how what I say will be interpreted by others. This is one of those cases, and I apologize.

First of all, I realize that 'perverted' is too strong of a word, once I think of the entire range of meanings connected to it. A better word, for my purposes, would have been 'misguided'. Secondly, in no way did I wish to pass a judgment on the people who may attend such services: a person attending may be wonderful and lovely. In the same vein that I might pronounce the LDS gospel 'true' yet it be implied that its members are imperfect, I could label another church as 'untrue' yet it be implied that its members are good people. On principle, I wouldn't want another to judge me based on my religion; nor would I want another to judge my religion based on me.

Now, a congregation that meets regularly and comes together for the main purpose of experiencing the 'manifestations of the spirit' that I described in the previous post is one led by a misguided spirit. Why? If the main purpose of gathering is to feel the outward manifestations of the gifts of the spirit, one has lost the core value of the Gospel (that is, the message of Jesus Christ to change lives and save souls) and focused on one of its ancillaries: the sensational occurrence of the outward gifts of the spirit. In the time of the early church, gifts of the spirit were only manifest to further the glory of God and not subject to the desire or schedule of man. In other words, a philosophy that puts a primary emphasis on the sensational gifts of the spirit has misunderstood the Gospel of Jesus Christ and is therefore misguided. I say such a philosophy is lead by a 'misguided spirit' as a reference to the fact that there are many spirits, but only one true Spirit, and that we should test them (1 John 4:10.

Edited by Maxel
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Now, a congregation that meets regularly and comes together for the main purpose of experiencing the 'manifestations of the spirit' that I described in the previous post is one led by a misguided spirit. Why? If the main purpose of gathering is to feel the outward manifestations of the gifts of the spirit, one has lost the core value of the Gospel (that is, the message of Jesus Christ to change lives and save souls) and focused on one of its ancillaries: the sensational occurrence of the outward gifts of the spirit....

Many protestant churches break up their services into several segments (for want of a better word). This particular church and many Pentecostal churches usually start with worship, which can include singing and, as you have described, 'experience the manifestations of the spirit' (ie speaking in tongues). After worship, there could be the offering, communion and then the sermon, with more singing at the end. I would describe the 'manifestations of the spirit' as part of the service and not the main purpose of the service.

M.

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Many protestant churches break up their services into several segments (for want of a better word). This particular church and many Pentecostal churches usually start with worship, which can include singing and, as you have described, 'experience the manifestations of the spirit' (ie speaking in tongues). After worship, there could be the offering, communion and then the sermon, with more singing at the end. I would describe the 'manifestations of the spirit' as part of the service and not the main purpose of the service.

M.

Then you and I are talking about different things. I speak of the churches which make their selling point, their defining characteristic, feeling the outward manifestations of the spirit of God.
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Then you and I are talking about different things. I speak of the churches which make their selling point, their defining characteristic, feeling the outward manifestations of the spirit of God.

Oh, well, actually you are Maureen are talking about the same services...it's just that what you describe is an unflattering caracature, and what Maureen describes is what she experienced, and what I see weekly. :cool:

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I was raised pentacostal and I can tell you from first hand experience it is mumbo jumbo. The preacher would always say the same thing when he was "speaking in tongues". After I was baptized in thier church they pulled me out of the water and the "elders" all put thier hands on me and shook me while telling me to keep saying hallelujah over and over, try it, then try it with several men shaking you. After getting tongue tied they said your almost there, then after another minute I was completely babbling and they said now you have the Holy Ghost. I knew then that it was wrong, look up some video on it, maybe youtube or spend some time listening to them "speak in tongues" youll see that it is rehearsed and most of the time repetitve in multiple sessions.

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I want to add that though they do occassionally have genuine experiences, but are most of the time kinda dreamy and disconneted from reality, spiritually speaking. With enough singing/praise and the blood of Jesus everything in life will be okay. All you can do is pray, anything beyond that is out of our control.

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Alright this is for Non-LDS people who believe in the gift of tongues and for LDS who can explain it to me. My friends are Pentacostal and they speak in tongues, as they say, quite often. Is there any point in this interpretation of what the gift of tongues is?

Could I do it if I wanted to? Is it possible to speak angelic tongues? Usually when the angels (or God) aren't speaking english they're saying words that are "so great and wonderful they cannot be uttered by the mouths of men".

Would it be a neat experience in standing in a attendance when a living apostle [future prophet] leaves a prayer for those standing there, with his eyes open, looking up during that prayer seeking the heavens open and witnessing angels attending to them?

This happened on many occasions among the early saints as it does now.

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Oh, well, actually you are Maureen are talking about the same services...it's just that what you describe is an unflattering caracature, and what Maureen describes is what she experienced, and what I see weekly. :cool:

No... If she's describing a church that has spiritual validity to its teachings, then we are talking about different things. I am speaking of a church that has its doctrine revolve around the outward gifts of the spirit, such as the speaking of tongues, etc., and not the central message of the Gospel of Christ. It may be nothing but a caricature of some congregations, but it accurately describes some other churches. I've seen parts of a service like what I'm describing, and the spirit that they exude is anything but holy. The scene was full of everyone yelling and babbling, some rolling around on the ground, some beating their chest and renting their clothes; the whole thing was closer to an unholy orgy than any genuine feeling of the spirit of God. After the main service, most people went home.

From what she described, it seems I'm talking about apples and you guys are describing oranges.

I don't want to sidetrack this discussion too much though; there are others talking about the positive manifestations of the gifts of the spirit, which is far more edifying than discussing the misguided application of them.

Edited by Maxel
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What is the sense in praying in an unknown tongue? Would not G-d understand regardless of what tongue you spoke? Therefore, the only purpose that such a thing would be in my mind is so that you do not understand your own prayer. If G-d forgives those that do not know what they do – why would he bless those that do not know what they do? This concept about G-d does not bode well to my understanding of his nature.

Sometimes praying in unknown tongues is known as "praying in the Spirit." My spirit communes with God in ways I'm not yet consciously aware of. I suppose psychology would label this the subconscious. I don't pray this way to earn blessings. I pray this way because the Bible says "Pray in the spirit and with understanding..."

Also I would like to clarify something about the “poor” in spirit. I think we of our modern era have a tendency to interpret this incorrectly. Anciently, the rich because they had much and were selfish with their riches were not considered to be rich spiritually. There were also the poor that in spirit were not selfish but giving of whatever they had (as for example the widow that have of her all in offering a mite). I think we would understand this term better in our society if we were to call it “rich” in spirit but poor as to the things of the world.

The Traveler

IMHO poverty of Spirit simply means I lean on and trust God, rather than rushing bullheaded, full-steam ahead, hoping God will sweep up my messes. Praying in the Spirit then, because I'm not directing the conversation consciously, is a powerful way that I can turn control over to God.

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I was raised pentacostal and I can tell you from first hand experience it is mumbo jumbo. The preacher would always say the same thing when he was "speaking in tongues". After I was baptized in thier church they pulled me out of the water and the "elders" all put thier hands on me and shook me while telling me to keep saying hallelujah over and over, try it, then try it with several men shaking you. After getting tongue tied they said your almost there, then after another minute I was completely babbling and they said now you have the Holy Ghost. I knew then that it was wrong, look up some video on it, maybe youtube or spend some time listening to them "speak in tongues" youll see that it is rehearsed and most of the time repetitve in multiple sessions.

Such thoughtless and undiscerning practices have probably turned more people away from the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and from Pentecost, than anything the Devil could come up with. I'll not deny that such things happen. They are common enough to be a problem, but what you experienced is not mainstream Pentecost.

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No... If she's describing a church that has spiritual validity to its teachings, then we are talking about different things. I am speaking of a church that has its doctrine revolve around the outward gifts of the spirit, such as the speaking of tongues, etc., and not the central message of the Gospel of Christ. It may be nothing but a caricature of some congregations, but it accurately describes some other churches. I've seen parts of a service like what I'm describing, and the spirit that they exude is anything but holy. The scene was full of everyone yelling and babbling, some rolling around on the ground, some beating their chest and renting their clothes; the whole thing was closer to an unholy orgy than any genuine feeling of the spirit of God. After the main service, most people went home.

From what she described, it seems I'm talking about apples and you guys are describing oranges.

It might be that some of what we are describing are completely different churches and services. And, perhaps my response was a bit sharp. On the other hand, let me offer an alternative interpretation of some manifestations that non-Pentecostal observers sometimes consider "unholy."

Yelling: Perhaps the Spirit has freed them from guilt, shame, addiction, depression, and they are shouting thanksgiving, or shouting down the Devil that has oppressed them?

Babbling: This, of course, could be unknown tongues. If you don't believe it's authentic, it will be interpreted as babbling.

Rolling and other Physical gestures (beating chest, tearing clothes): As with yelling, perhaps they are under conviction for sin, and are responding in an honest and thorough way--something many churches would never make room for? Before Pentecostalism, at Methodist revivals, folk would come forward to repent and convert--and would sit on "the mourners' bench." Often they would wail and mourn in travail, realizing the gravity of their sins, and then, as they sensed the Spirit's forgiveness, they would weep with joy.

Laughing (I added this one): I heard an actual account of a service in which people were praying--a time of corporate worship, with folks up front seeking God in prayer. One woman was in a corner laughing. Her laughter was fairly loud and unreserved. One of the elders went to the pastor to complain, and ask if he should stop her. The pastor replied, "Leave her alone. I know her story. This woman has experienced much travesty in her life. Until tonight, she has never once laughed. She's received the joy of the Lord. Allow her this communion with God!"

I do not deny that in the "altar services," of Pentecostal churches, when there is a lot of individuals praying, seeking, receiving, that some members counterfeit the gifts, and others "show boat," to demonstrate their alleged holiness. But if the gifts are sometimes counterfeited and abused, does that not suggest that there is the authentic--and that the real is prolific?

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I believe there are many in other churches that experience a true Gift of tongues. I also believe there are many who fake the gift of tongues, as well as other gifts.

As a teenager and young adult, my wife's uncle would visit a Pentecostal Church often. When others were moved to roll around the floor, etc., he would also pretend to do the same. Why? Because he wanted to be able to touch and grope the women. Sad, but true.

I do have concerns about some televangelists and others, who centralize their work around gifts of tongues or healing, etc. It just seems to be a lot of propaganda to get people in to their services. Personally, I don't think the Lord exactly works that way for most people. Instead, the gifts are given freely to those who are humble and righteous, but in order to bless people, not to build fame and wealth.

In such instances, I wonder if perhaps such gifts are sometimes given by another spirit. After all, Peter warned that Satan can appear as an angel of light to deceive. Simon Magus performed "miracles" prior to joining the Christian Church, which he joined because he perceived there was greater power within it than he had.

So, we do need to realize that when someone seems to be speaking in tongues, there may be Godly or ungodly forces involved. Personally, having known PC on this list for quite a while, I have no doubt that he has learned to speak to God in such angelic tongues. But I don't think he abuses such a gift, either. He would humbly treasure it as a gift from God.

I see the same thing in those receiving angelic visits. Some hold such visits extremely sacred and do not throw their pearls before swine. Others treat it like they would speak about going to a carnival or a mosh pit. Often, we mortals are too casual concerning sacred things. How can God trust us with more sacred events and gifts, if we do not carefully and humbly use what He has already given us?

Edited by rameumptom
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