update to 'Is she the one?'

[dashb78]

I just want to thank everybody for their comments. Most were helpful but a few were kind of harsh. To the helpful ones, I hope your insights are not due to first, sceond, or third hand experience. It is not a fun thing to go through. To the harsh ones, let me explain some things for I believe you were al just trying to help but probably misunderstood or misread what I was intending to say.

Here is the explanation. I never felt good about my addcitions...never! However, if you know addicitons they are contrary to logic. You feel one way but act another, if that makes sense. When I met this girl I was in the middle of therapy. I still am in therapy. My therapist said that I could not give love until I learned to love myself. He also said that my addicitions would be a major obstacle in giving the energy necessary in a relationship. However, I was asked to date this girl by my parents. My parents don't know any of this by the way. When I started to see her more I realized how much she made me happy. I also saw how lonely she was and how much she needed someone. Her dad just passed away last summer and she moved back to be with her mom. Her only family that stays in touch with her is her mom. Her brothers refuse to talk to her and her mom. Her grandparents refuse to talk to both of them either. She as a few freinds but work and school kind of hinder any real freindships. So when I heard what my therapist said I tried to break it off by telling everything. I told her what my therapist said. I told what I was feeling. To my suprise she pretty much just batted away my faults and doubts about dating her like they were mere flys! I tried to talk to her again and again but she kept changing the subject by saying things like 'I like you the way you are', 'you will change'. She even told me her life story about not being a virgin and falling away from the church and how she came back. She told me this to show me that we all have faults. Yet as I tried to explain to her how my addictions hindered my ability to love or even like her she batted that away.

Perplexed and confused I contined to pray for answers. Now some of you mentioned in some form or another that since I had addictions I could not connect with God and recieve answers. That is an outright lie! I hope you don't say that to people. I believe, no I know, that God answers all prayers no matter who it comes from! How would any sinner, addict, lost soul, or prodigal son ever get back on track if that were true? If it were true then why do we need the Atonement? If we can't ask for help and receive it properly then why even ask? Why even try? Do not spread that lie! It will destroy people!

Now then, I prayed for guidance and I got only doubts, confusion, and issues bombarding my brain every second of everyday. I finally asked my brother who is an Elder's Quorum 2nd counselor for help. He said I should ask the question 'Should I break off this relationship?"' and see wht happens. He also said that the confusion and doubt was like trying ti tune into a radio station and getting static because I was not in line with what God wanted. So I prayed and prayed and prayed. The answer was clear. I needed to break up with this girl and focus on my myself. I need to love me now. I need to clear the road of my addicitons so I can continue on the path to Heavenly Father. I broke up with her 2 hours ago and I hope she will be ok. I told her what I have told you. Will she be ok? Did I do the right thing? I need to get more support I think. I also need to talk to my bishop. This is where I need some more advice.

Should I tell my parents? How do I do that? How will they react? Now some of you mentioned how incredible it was that my priesthood leaders reacted with little or no emotion and were not as strict as you would think. Here in lies the next question. Is this offence punishible by disfellowship or excommunication? I thought that's what they would have done but they didn't. They even let me keep taking the sacrament and continue with my callings!. Is this wrong? How do I tell the new bishop, if the former preisthood leaders were wrong, what should be done? If he does the same as they did what do I do? Do I talk to the stake president or higher authority? I am truly scared of this but I think I should be excommunicated. Is that wrong? I think I told you that I have been keeping up the lie and going to the temple and keeping callings and such. That is why I beleive I should be excommunicated. Are there any bishops on here or ex-bishops or know bishops who could help me out? Like I said I am truly, deeply, extemely mortified and terrified at the thought of excommunication. Not only because of the embarrassment but because I will lose the gift of the Holy Ghost and the blessings I have recieved thus far through the church. Please let me know what the protocol is for bishops dealing with masturbation and pornography. Please let me know how best I should tell my parenst if I should at all.

Again thank you all for your support and concern.

dashb78

[L_and_P21]

just be her friend. be there for her. you will need the friendship too. also dont give up on dating her. you never know. just let her know that you need time to figure things out for yourself and that you, as to how things sound, that you would like to pursue the relationship in time.

go talk to the bishop about these things. he is to act as the spokesman for Heavenly Father not us. let him in. its hard at fist but it becomes easier as time goes on. if you need to talk to someone higher, he will direct you to do so. also who cares about the embarrassment. you are doing what you should be doing to get yourself in line with the spirit and the blessings of heaven. dont tell your parents unless the bishop says its best to or if you really really feel you need to. the less people that know the better.

Edited January 28, 2009 by L_and_P21

[NeuroTypical]

Not sure if you considered me one of the harsh ones or not, but if you did, please consider that "harsh" doesn't necessarily equal "not helpful" or "untrue".

God bless, and best of luck.

LM

[jolee65]

I dont think I would tell my mom, being a mom I dont need to know that. dad, brother ,and bishop male support is better then moms. We just worry and make a big deal out of everything, But thats just my opinion.

Plus I think if it had been a female you were messing with that would have been different, and you need sacrament. I know someone that cheated on there husband , they didnt get kicked out, repentance is important.

You want to be excommunicated? for what , how is that going to help.

Have you even tryed to sustain from looking or touching , I mean just got up walked out of your room and walked downstairs to your family or go to a friends.

Your no different that anyone that has an addiction,its no different then a person addicted to booze or drugs you have to learn to avoid and that the hard part avoidance. learning a new way of life and what to put in its place.

I want to hear about what your doing to try to move forward.

The GF is sweet im sure but she needs alot of attention, thats my impression anyway, and you might want to rethink that relationship for sure and im glad you were able to brake it off.

Continue to let us know how your doing.

Also at the bottom of the page here on the right it says groups theres one for porn addiction, I heard that its helped some other posters here your not the first .

I hope this didnt come off harsh, it wasnt my intention.

Edited January 28, 2009 by jolee65
spelling

[rameumptom]

Your Church leaders should have followed the Spirit in the directions they've taken. None of us were there when they prayed about how to deal with your situation, so none of us can judge them.

If you are able to be a friend to the girl, then be her friend. Doing a friend thing a few times a month can be okay. Doing a "friend" thing several times a week ends up not being a friend thing.

Focus on your strengths. You will never get rid of your weaknesses, as none of us do. They are a part of our brain's wiring. What we can do is develop new strengths and habits that allow us to develop happiness and avoid using the old wiring in the brain.

We don't lose memories. We can create new memories that are strongly imprinted in our minds, and allow the old memories and weaknesses to be filed away. But we then have to continue working on the new strengths and memories, to ensure we do not get lax and stupidly reopen the old files.

The best way to learn to love yourself, and then love others, is to learn appreciation. It is one of the highest forms of love, as we give love without expecting anything in return. Imagine if each day you awoke, looked in the mirror, and found 5 things positive about yourself and the world you live in. Then, at lunch, you did the same thing. For each person you bump into, you mentally think of 5 wonderful things about that person. And at night, in prayer, you thank God for the many specific blessings you've noticed during the day.

Over time, you will find appreciation for the simple things. You will be grateful for what you have and are, not disappointed for you do not have or are not. In such a case, God will then bless you with more, for you will have become humble and grateful to Him for the blessings that do come to you. This new habit will be a powerful one to develop. It will allow you to truly see yourself as a child of God, and as a being of great worth, without being narcissistic. You will see these as gifts of God, and not something that makes you better than others - but that you are still special.

[lilered]

I need to get more support I think. I also need to talk to my bishop. This is where I need some more advice.

Should I tell my parents? I would go to your parents and ask them for their support as you work to thru your addictions and repentance.How do I do that? How will they react? Only you know them. I would think that "unconditional love" would be the resultNow some of you mentioned how incredible it was that my priesthood leaders reacted with little or no emotion and were not as strict as you would think. I for one, am not, your past Bishop had the keys to make the decisions in your case at the time. Here in lies the next question. Is this offence punishible by disfellowship or excommunication? Again, your Bishop has the power of discernment I thought that's what they would have done but they didn't. They even let me keep taking the sacrament and continue with my callings!. Is this wrong? How do I tell the new bishop, if the former preisthood leaders were wrong, what should be done? If he does the same as they did what do I do? Do I talk to the stake president or higher authority? I am truly scared of this but I think I should be excommunicated. Is that wrong? I think I told you that I have been keeping up the lie and going to the temple and keeping callings and such. That is why I beleive I should be excommunicated. Are there any bishops on here or ex-bishops or know bishops who could help me out? Like I said I am truly, deeply, extemely mortified and terrified at the thought of excommunication. Not only because of the embarrassment but because I will lose the gift of the Holy Ghost and the blessings I have recieved thus far through the church. Please let me know what the protocol is for bishops dealing with masturbation and pornography. Please let me know how best I should tell my parenst if I should at all.

Again thank you all for your support and concern.

My advise would be to ask to talk with your Bishop, and confess your transgressions to him. The real question I would think should be Are you ready to repent and move forward? Do whatever it takes to overcome your addictions and return to the straight and narrow path. If the answer is Yes, then you must be willing to accept the decision of your new Bishop, whatever the outcome. One thing to keep in mind, many have been disfellowshipped or excommunicated and have returned to become strong, faithful and loving members of the church. Good luck on your decison

[Misshalfway]

I am glad to know you are in therapy. I am glad to know that you are taking the responsibility to face this difficult and heartbreaking problem by reaching out to those who know.

I don't think any of us can really know the answer to whether or not you made the right decision. You know....I think as Saints we are conditioned, perhaps inaccurately, to believe that every decision is a black and white - right or wrong. And I just don't think this is always the case. I think that sometimes God does not intervene with all the answers because he wants us to learn to choose and learn to stand on our own to feet in trust of ourselves. It sounds like to me that you searched your heart and made the best decision for yourself. I think you should stand comforted in that choice and trust yourself. She will be ok. We all have heartbreak and pain in this life and we all have what it takes to get thru. You MUST do what is best for yourself and most likely when we do that, it turns out to be in the best interests of others too. -- even if they don't act like it in front of us. So....trust yourself and trust her too. She will be ok. Hand the matter to God. He will take care of her as he does all of us.

Now.....let's talk about whether or not you should tell your parents. You are not a minor anymore so I don't know if such is required. I think that again, you need to decide if that is the best (not necessarily 'right') move for your overall recovery. I know that telling the truth is cleansing and healing, but I also have learned from sad and painful experience that not all people can be trusted with this information. SO, not knowing your parents or the dynamics of your family system, I can't feel comfortable in commenting. You have just learned to successfully make hard choices that are good for yourself. Do that again with regards to your parents. I lean towards telling them. But realize that if and when you do tell them that you NEED to give them space to have their own honest reactions. You can receive their reactions with love and understanding as you help them process the information. Be prepared that they may blame themselves and feel intense reactions. They may even shift some of that blame on you or others. Be patient with those reactions. They may need to freak out a bit or even lash or retreat at bit until they can ground themselves again. Give yourself permission to detach from their reactions. The great part about detachment is that you can keep yourself untouched, but still love in great compassion at the same time.

Now, lets talk about the church and disciplinary action. It is difficult for priesthood to always know what to do on this issue. Some think it is a terrible thing and lower the boom. Some bishops simply don't comprehend the seriousness of the issue because they just don't have the education or wisdom to act properly. It is hard to separate some of these attitudes from their ecclesiastical decisions.

Having worked with 6 different bishops and 2 SP's on this issue, I have seen all kinds of reactions and levels of disciplinary action. And as I see the two reactive extremes, I have decided that I don't agree with either one. Being too hard on an addict (depending on the severity of the sin, of course) isn't helpful or healing. And since that is what church disciplinary action is about anyway, it doesn't make sense to send someone into discipline for the purpose of punishment. I also disagree STRONGLY with taking a light approach or brushing it off or "loving" the sinner so much their is no accountability or logical consequences. Talk about giving the addiction and deceptions and denials permission to thrive!!!

It sounds like you might understand a bit of what I am saying here. I think that you have to be honest and self loving enough to fight for your own repentance. BUT, and this is a big one, you MUSN'T punish yourself too much either. I know you feel terrible about what you have done. I know it isn't who you are and I know you want it to go away and you hate yourself for not being able to stop the indulgence. But, you punishing yourself or assuming that real repentance will take such punishment is the shame voice in your head talking. Remember that God doesn't deal in shame! NOT EVER! That is Satan's tactic and you know as well as I do how convincing that shame voice is. BUT you gotta identify that source and discipline your mind to honesty and KINDNESS towards yourself -- not honesty and condemnation. Make sense?

Now I don't know the extent of your activities. I don't know what an appropriate disciplinary action might be. You must trust your inner Spirit voice and help advise your bishop as to how things should proceed. My husband had to voluntarily hand in his temple recommend because one bishop wouldn't do anything. Follow the Spirit AND discipline yourself to self love and then work together with your priesthood leaders to find a satisfactory repentance plan that will purge the evil from you but preserve the goodness of who you are. OK?

The most important thing is that you go forward in strength and humility and honesty. Nothing God could do to you is worse than what Satan is already attempting to do. So, give yourself to God's process completely EVEN if you feel the fear and the shame. You WILL feel it, so take the self power to decide what to do with it instead of allowing it to keep you from the Savior. ( which is the intent of fear and shame in the first place. :))

Remember, while PA is painful and destructive and warping, it doesn't have to define who you are or your eternal worth. This is a battle for your soul. This is a battle over what you believe about yourself and who gets to define those beliefs. This is a battle you can win and will win but ONLY if you deal in truth and light. Fight the denial. Fight the shame. Fight the fear. And you will win as you fight with kindness and real Christ-like love and recovery principles. OK? Remember too that it isn't about the destination of this journey so much as it is about the WAY you walk the journey.

Much love. Much hope.

[applepansy]

Do not fear excommunication. Excommunication when used correctly lets you start over. It can be the beginning of the repentance process.

From you post I get the feeling you know your parents love you. As a Mom I would want to know just enough so that I could at least be specific in my prayers on your behalf. When my kids don't take the sacrament I jump too all sorts of conclusions, and I'm usually wrong. But each of us is different and our family relationships are diffferent. We can't make that decision for you. I think male support in your struggles is important . . .your Dad, Brother, etc.

Pray before you see your Bishop and pray with him before you start talking to him. Then tell him everything. If your serious about repentance you have to lay it all out on the table.

Stop worrying about the girl you broke up with. She is a daughter of our Heavenly Father and He will watch out for her. You need to worry about you.

There have been great posts here. I know you will find your way through this, with the help of our Lord and Savior. Let the Atonement work for you.

applepansy

[ruthiechan]

Trust your Bishop. Continue to be in therapy. When a new Bishop comes along you can talk to him too.

What does your therapist mean by self love? I do not understand the concept.

[jiminycricket]

dash,

You did the right thing. You prayed, you received an answer, and you're following that answer - the path you've taken in this matter is in perfect harmony God's will. Addictions cloud our vision, and it's our nature to get scared when we can't see clearly. God has commanded us over and over that we "fear not." Replace your fear with trust. Know that while you may not be able to see what's around the bend, God can, and He has told you what you should do to get the best outcome. Trust in Him, that His will is best for her too.

rameumptom gave some good advice:

If you are able to be a friend to the girl, then be her friend. Doing a friend thing a few times a month can be okay. Doing a "friend" thing several times a week ends up not being a friend thing.

From the beginning it has sounded to me like you two would be great as friends -- much more so than as mates. So be friends... talk to her... hang out once in a while... if she needs someone or feels particularly lonely sometime, be there for her. You can be every bit as supportive as a friend as you can as a boyfriend.

I must, however, disagree with another of rameumptom's points. The Savior has promised us that if we will come unto Him in humility and faith, he will "make weak things become strong unto [us]" (Ether 12:27-28). If we will then remain humble, we can, and indeed must, be permanently rid of those weaknesses. He can change our hearts and our minds.

You shouldn't feel obligated to tell your parents. It might be a good idea to tell them if you feel they could be of some help and support, but this is entirely your call. I would encourage you to consider each of them separately. It may be a good idea to talk to your mother but not your father, or vice versa. If you do confide in one or both of them, it might bring you closer together, and that might help strengthen your resolve to do better. Showing that kind of confidence in a person often has that effect. I would also encourage you to talk to your bishop first, and maybe even ask his counsel about talking to your parents.

You might ask your father (if you tell him) or your bishop for a blessing. If you find it particularly hard to confess to your bishop, you might even ask for a blessing before you do so. Just say, "I need to confess some things to you, but could you give me a blessing first?" If you can make it through the confession and discussion first, though, I've found blessings to be much more meaningful when the priesthood holder knows for himself what's going on. I suppose God can steer a man more precisely when that man knows the general direction he needs to go.

Each case is different, but generally the things you've written about (pornography, masturbation and even unworthy temple attendance) aren't grounds for disfellowshipment or excommunication. Usually some kind of informal probation as prescribed by the bishop is sufficient. It is unusual that your leaders have not taken any kind of informal disciplinary action, but remember that they have been duly ordained, called and set apart to act in their callings as representatives of the Lord Jesus Christ, and "whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same" (Doctrine and Covenants 1:38).

The Lord chooses men to lead us, and He is bound by their words. When we follow their counsel He is obligated bless us for our obedience. If you tell your bishop the whole story and he counsels you to continue taking the sacrament and carry on in the work, do not disobey or seek out more discipline than the Lord's servants have meeted out to you, for then "ye have no promise" (Doctrine and Covenants 82:10), and you might not be able to bear the burden you've taken upon yourself.

If, on the other hand, the opposite extremity occurs and you are excommunicated, do not fear. Take the yoke the Lord's servants have placed upon you and bear it like a man, that by your diligence and faith you might win the prize (Mosiah 4:27).

Your apprehension is understandable, but it might help to realize that because of these addictions you haven't really been able to use the Gift of the Holy Ghost and many other blessings associated with church membership in your life anyway, so losing the availability of those blessings until you become worthy again probably won't hurt you as badly as you think. You will lose the Holy Ghost as a comforter, but you will still be able to receive guidance and promptings through Him. And the embarrassment, as difficult as it may be, can be a catalyst for many Christlike attributes if you will not resist it. This article by Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve might also help calm your fears and give you some perspective on church disciplinary actions.

Again, I strongly encourage you to try attending an ARP group (see this thread). It will bring all of this advice together and help you see your way.

Jiminy

Edited January 28, 2009 by jiminycricket
Added Elder Ballard's Ensign article

[Maxel]

Hey man-

Congratulations! Judging by your posts, it seems you've done the right thing- even though it must have been very, very hard.

Congratulations! You're continuing to do the right thing by moving forward and seeking support and wisdom from heavenly and temporal sources. If you continue on this path, you will be blessed eternally for it.

In your road to recovery, a close connection to your Heavenly Father will be the absolute best tool available to you. Indeed, making use of the Atonement of Christ is the only way that you will ever be truly free of the monster of addiction. I would caution you a bit about listening to others' first-hand accounts, as everyone is different and what worked for one person may not work for (or even be relevant to) you. However, if you keep close to God and think through everything you hear and learn on your road to recovery, first-hand accounts and therapeutic recovery techniques will become some of your greatest friends. It is in this spirit that I recommend to you everything everyone has said above, as reading all the posts have filled me with a confirmation to the truthfulness of what they say.

Having warned you about first-hand accounts, now let me share with you what I've learned from mine.

When I met this girl I was in the middle of therapy. I still am in therapy. My therapist said that I could not give love until I learned to love myself. He also said that my addicitions would be a major obstacle in giving the energy necessary in a relationship.

Are you seeing an LDS therapist? If not, do you have access to seeing one? Generally, LDS therapists are more able to connect to you on issues of these kinds of addiction, as they have a gospel understanding of the situation.

My parents don't know any of this by the way.

Do you have the kind of relationship that you can talk to them about this? I was never able to tell my parents about mine- my father is addicted himself, and my mother isn't a strong enough source of support for me to trust her with such personal information. However, if you are in a situation where your parents would be able to help you, tell them if you feel the spirit prompts it.

I broke up with her 2 hours ago and I hope she will be ok. I told her what I have told you. Will she be ok? Did I do the right thing?

It seems you've done the right thing. Judging by her behavior, she is just as hurt, in some way, as you are. I would take applepansy's advice- 'She is a daughter of our Heavenly Father and He will watch out for her. You need to worry about you.'

Is this offence punishible by disfellowship or excommunication?

Strictly speaking, it's a matter of the severity and secondary effects of the addiction. Your situation, however, does not seem to warrant either form of discipline. To my understanding, excommunication/disfellowship is usually considered only when a serious neglect of familial duties is a result of the addiction, or when any abuse stems from it. As you are still single, you don't have to worry about the neglect, and it seems you don't need to worry about any abuse you've inflicted on others. The only abuse stemming from your addiction is self-abuse, which you are trying to overcome.

Many, many young men (and some young women) are dealing with these same problems. Excommunication and/or disfellowship is not the normal way of dealing with them.

I thought that's what they would have done but they didn't. They even let me keep taking the sacrament and continue with my callings!. Is this wrong? How do I tell the new bishop, if the former preisthood leaders were wrong, what should be done? If he does the same as they did what do I do? Do I talk to the stake president or higher authority? I am truly scared of this but I think I should be excommunicated. Is that wrong? I think I told you that I have been keeping up the lie and going to the temple and keeping callings and such.

In one ARP session I attended, there was a man who was married with a 5 and 2 year old and extremely active in multiple callings, including President of the Elder's Quorum when he went to the bishop. The effects of him admitting his addiction (and he was heavily, heavily addicted) was the releasing of him from his calling, the recalling of his temple recommend (which he received again after 3 months of cleanliness), and the inability to participate in the sacrament for a period of time. Being active in church while hiding an addiction is not a viable reason for excommunication, to my understanding.

That is why I beleive I should be excommunicated. Are there any bishops on here or ex-bishops or know bishops who could help me out? Like I said I am truly, deeply, extemely mortified and terrified at the thought of excommunication. Not only because of the embarrassment but because I will lose the gift of the Holy Ghost and the blessings I have recieved thus far through the church. Please let me know what the protocol is for bishops dealing with masturbation and pornography.

Firstly, you have your heart in the right place if your main concern about being excommunicated is losing the spiritual blessings attached to being a participating Mormon. Secondly, I would advise you to relax. Even if you should be excommunicated, '[e]xcommunication when used correctly lets you start over. It can be the beginning of the repentance process.' (Props to applepansy for those inspired words)

The best thing you could do, in regards to preparing to see your bishop, is to get down on your knees and pray for the strength to do so, and then go and see your bishop! One wonderful thing about the Church is the perfect way in which the Lord has set the ecclesiastical structure: the bishop is perfectly suited, with the right tools and knowledge, to help you receive the help and healing you need. We are told that our bishops are who we can go see in times of serious spiritual trials- right now, you are in one and need all the help you can get. I've never, ever heard anyone say they regretted talking to their bishop.

Keep it up, dashb78- you can do it!

[Dove]

Hello dash,

Sorry for the harshness of some of the posts. It's hard to reach out and share in vulnerability our deepest sorrows, only to be treated harshly about them.....it can be painful to hear and feel. I know, I've felt that before.....

I would recommend to be totally honest with your priesthood leadership, and then leave the matter in their hands, especially if you feel you can trust your bishop generally anyway. What I'm trying to say is let them do their job of being the common judge of Israel in your case. You do your job in being honest and upright with them, don't lie just to go through the temple (that's important not to do), but be square in letting them know what's going on. Then, trust in their decisions concerning your case.

Then, I would focus on, as your counselor said, loving yourself through healing yourself by righteous actions. Learn to love woman in an appropriate way in appropriate situations.......By the way, concerning this girl you just broke up with. You may not be able to "just be friends" with her. Be careful not to lead her on....If she was in denial concerning your problems, which you seemed to describe her as this most recent thread, it might be best to stay totally away from her. You want healthy relationships with members of the opposite sex, and honesty is paramount in healthy relationships.

You've received loads of advice from the other threads. Prayer and scripture study are great helps, as well as building up support groups. Remember to serve others too!

I'll stop now, :-)

Dove