Why does it seem like LDS men care more about looks than non-LDS men?

[pam]

It's funny..we've gone back to debating a statement made by a person that was banned several months ago. lol

[Generally_Me]

My brother is really focused on looks. Don't know why that is exactly. Now I can see it could possibly be because he's LDS....LOL

He's a lot pickier than weight or size though. It's sad, I know a few YSA in his YSA ward, they are very nice girls, but he doesn't like the eyes/hair/whatever and refuses to look much farther than that. It's resulted in some heartbreak for him, probably a lot more before it gets any better.

[RachelleDrew]

My brother is really focused on looks. Don't know why that is exactly. Now I can see it could possibly be because he's LDS....LOL

He's a lot pickier than weight or size though. It's sad, I know a few YSA in his YSA ward, they are very nice girls, but he doesn't like the eyes/hair/whatever and refuses to look much farther than that. It's resulted in some heartbreak for him, probably a lot more before it gets any better.

Or perhaps he will find a girl that is picky as well.

It seems kind of baffling to us when we look at people who behave that way, but pushing someone on them who they are not interested in is never a good idea. Even if they are disinterested for shallow or superficial reasons.

[FairChild]

I think some people don't look at the whole picture when it comes to having a relationship with another person. That plus the fact that sometimes a person's eyesite will blind them to otherwise important factors. And also, sometimes men are just stupid.

[talisyn]

Well, my sad anecdotal story is I've gone on one single date my entire adult life with an LDS guy. My ex and my fiance are both non-members, as are all the other men I've dated. I'm a curvy woman (my daughter says comfy) who just doesn't seem to fit in with any LDS guy's standard of eternal wife so I went out and made my own life without them. There are lots of fish in the sea after all, and I don't have time to waste on lack of respect

Pam, this might be an old post but it's still timely

[Bini]

Prisonchaplain's post makes a lot of sense.

But consider yourself dodging a bullet when a man turns down getting to know you based on your physical appearance. Trust me, you don't want to be anywhere near that! So you don't meet his ideals for the "perfect" woman. So what? She's not out there and as far as I'm concerned, people with that mindset and attitude can keep on lookin'. Someone else mentioned that sometimes we find a "cuteness" in someone that we hadn't noticed before, not until after getting to know him/her. I totally agree! Kindness and generosity has a funny way of transforming an ordinary person into someone extraordinary!

[Moksha]

Can a glamorous couple keeps themselves happy on looks alone? It probably depends on their vanity quotient, but those who see beauty in youthful physical manifestations will be disappointed soon enough.

He's a lot pickier than weight or size though. It's sad, I know a few YSA in his YSA ward, they are very nice girls, but he doesn't like the eyes/hair/whatever and refuses to look much farther than that.

Suffering from the young and dumb syndrome.

Or perhaps he will find a girl that is picky as well.

Good point, this age related disorder is definitely not sex-linked. It afflicts both men and women.

Dr. Moksha, is there any cure?

Usually the coming of wrinkles and liver spots. Sometimes it can be hastened with a sufficient slap upside the head. That will be 5 cents please.

.

[prisonchaplain]

Prisonchaplain's post makes a lot of sense.

But consider yourself dodging a bullet when a man turns down getting to know you based on your physical appearance. Trust me, you don't want to be anywhere near that! So you don't meet his ideals for the "perfect" woman. So what? She's not out there and as far as I'm concerned, people with that mindset and attitude can keep on lookin'. Someone else mentioned that sometimes we find a "cuteness" in someone that we hadn't noticed before, not until after getting to know him/her. I totally agree! Kindness and generosity has a funny way of transforming an ordinary person into someone extraordinary!

I just double checked...that "someone else" was me too. (Sorry...had to toot my own horn just a little there...)

[Islander]

Completely agree with PC above. Do not be concerned with the likes and dislikes of others. Concentrate on being the best you can be emotionally, physically and spiritually. Such "wholesome fitness" demonstrate your discipline, care and concern for yourself and your readiness to be the best possible companion to the ONE that WILL be interested in you.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I think previous posters who said LDS guys are in it for the "long-haul" and want to do it right from the get-go, are bang-on. You've got all this pressure on you as an LDS man to figure out who your eternal companion is, without ever having any real physical intimacy, without living together, without ever having the kind of experimentation that non-LDS guys have.

Also, non-LDS people may well have the attitude "if it doesn't work out, that's OK, I'll just break it off, stop living with the person, or get a divorce". So, I think LDS men's fixation on attractiveness might have to do with their overall commitment and desire not to resort to divorce.

Also, I struggled with whether attractiveness was important as a young adult. I had a long-time girlfriend who was the best person in the world to me. We were a fantastic team when it came to putting on activities, and even served as YM and YW president together. She was good for me in certain emotional ways, and I seemed to meet many of her needs. She loved me very deeply.

But she was very overweight, and I wasn't. Her weight really bothered me. I tried to see past it, but it really, really bothered me. We lasted 3 years, and the weight was an issue the whole time. I never mentioned it because it would hurt her, and as it was, she's lost 100 pounds already, and was normal from the waist up, except for her upper arms, but really hippy, thick, and lumbering in the lower part of her body -- in her early twenties.

Women would try to tell me I was shallow about caring so much about her looks, when she was such a gem inside. I felt tormented, because I really did like her, but when I saw her in certain clothing, or we were together in public it would really bother me. I didn't feel attracted to her physically at certain times because of it too. Plus I figured she'd be twice the size after marriage and there was little incentive to stay as trim as possible.

I eventually followed my heart and broke up with her. It was a terrible experience and broke my heart, but I felt it would be an issue for the next 50 years if I didn't.

I married someone who was slender and has a nice figure, and I still enjoy looking at her today, even though 20 years have passed. She's kept the weight off, and looks fantastic to me when I see her from a distance or at Church, or when she walks into a room. Sure, there were other problems that didn't exist with my other girlfriend, such as our seeming inability to work together on a project without getting on each other's nerves, but that seems less important than the attractiveness I feel toward her.

So, it IS important, and as a woman, I wouldn't want to be married to a man who didn't find me attractive if that is an important emotional need to him. Someone will find you attractive though -- my friends tell me my wife isn't attractive at all (I was a bit surprised at that), but to me, she's very pretty. I'm glad we're wired to like different people and different body types for different reasons!

[Vort]

I married someone who was among the most physically beautiful women I had ever known. It has been 23 years since we met, and I still look at her sleeping when I wake up in the morning and marvel at her beauty.

Can't explain it. Can't justify it. Don't know what it means for all those golden-hearted women who, for whatever reason, are not considered attractive. But when things have looked darkest in my marriage and life has been Just Plain Hard, I would be lying if I said that my wife's physical beauty didn't act as a balm for anger and wounded feelings. Is this just Vort's callow immaturity shining through? Perhaps, but in any case, there you have it.

(And btw, I never thought of myself as one who had an inordinate desire for physical beauty. Funny how things work out.)

[RachelleDrew]

Reading MormonMusic's and Vort's posts are horribly disheartening for some reason. Not that I disagree with them at all, attractiveness IS important. You and your spouse need to think the other is attractive.

But still, it's like.....ugh. Man. I really wish I didn't have to worry about dating again. Especially after reading those posts.

[Generally_Me]

I remember reading a story once when the narrator stated he met a woman whose husband kept saying she was "so beautiful". When he met her, he was shocked; she was "hideous". Big nose, buck teeth, scraggly hair, thick glasses. But, when he got to know her, the woman did become "beautiful." She glowed, if you will. Positive attitude, kind heart. Best of all was that her husband told her all the time that she was beautiful, and she believed it.

I think this story was in a Mormon publication, but I read it 10 years ago, and can't recall where.

[Vort]

Reading MormonMusic's and Vort's posts are horribly disheartening for some reason. Not that I disagree with them at all, attractiveness IS important. You and your spouse need to think the other is attractive.

But still, it's like.....ugh. Man. I really wish I didn't have to worry about dating again. Especially after reading those posts.

Fwiw, I don't know how other men perceive my wife. They may not find her particularly attractive, or maybe not attractive at all. I know she has put on some weight since we married and had a bunch of kids. But to my eyes, she is beauty personified.

[beefche]

Ya'll need to rent an old B/W movie called "Enchanted Cottage". Such a sweet love story and shows the power of love and how a lover (I mean that in the real sense, not the modern interpretation of that word) sees the other.

[Bini]

Reading MormonMusic's and Vort's posts are horribly disheartening for some reason. Not that I disagree with them at all, attractiveness IS important. You and your spouse need to think the other is attractive.

But still, it's like.....ugh. Man. I really wish I didn't have to worry about dating again. Especially after reading those posts.

But sometimes a man's idea of beauty and what looks good isn't the same thinking of a woman's. My ex-husband used to brag about how beautifully stunning an old flame of his was. Apparently she was a godsend. But I ended up seeing pictures of her and she was not what I would consider beautiful. She was fairly average build and mostly a plain Jane. Yes, he was quite offended that I wasn't blown away by her. But I know a good looking woman when I see one too -- and she wasn't one of them! So don't be disheartened from these posts. It all goes back to this: beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[prisonchaplain]

Reading MormonMusic's and Vort's posts are horribly disheartening for some reason. Not that I disagree with them at all, attractiveness IS important. You and your spouse need to think the other is attractive.

But still, it's like.....ugh. Man. I really wish I didn't have to worry about dating again. Especially after reading those posts.

Mormonmusic's post strikes me as true, but there is one element missing. He felt guilty because the source of the girl's unattractiveness (to him) was obvious. Most of us have dated someone that was sweet, nice, and perhaps even objectively good looking. "Why wouldn't anyone find her attractive and marriage-worthy???" Yet, somehow, for you, she didn't click. She just wasn't the one. Too tall, fat, skinny, short-legged, wrong hair color, etc. etc. You feel silly because such superficial matters aren't important. BUT, you just can't conjur up the physical attraction.

IMHO this is not the shallow lookism we think it is. In Momornmusic's case it might seem especially so since weight was an issue. Yet, from my aged perspective (I'm almost as old as P*--uh, never mind I won't go there), it's simply a matter of not being attracted. It wasn't meant to be. The chemistry's not there. Hey. let's make it sound spiritual--it just wasn't Heavenly Father's intention.

No guilt. No shallowness. No weakness of character here. The match just wasn't meant to be, and a lack of physical attraction happened to be the conscious factor for unknown deeper incompatibilities.

[EQ_Guy]

A couple random thoughts on the descriptors:

Average: it may depend on what you idea of average is, in my mind at least it's code for healthy body weight, nothing wrong with that.

Athletic: If somebody is into sports, camping or what have you that requires a degree of physical fitness this could be important. If I weighed 320lb like I used to and some gal had dreams of Saturday morning bike rides with her tru wuv in the future one look at me would kinda throw that idea out of the window. They could of course just be superficial.

Slender/Slim + Washboard: I wouldn't turn a girl down who met this but if there are requirements of Barbie proportions that's something I'd classify as superficial.

On the whole attractive a must idea:

One has to be attracted, which neccesitates the other person being attractive (however you define that), both personality wise and physically, and call me what you will an over abundance of one doesn't compensate for a complete lack of the other (works both ways, stunning looks don't compensate for being the Wicked Witch of the Wasatch). That said, one hardly needs to have a super model's body to be attractive.

I'm new to this site, so I hope I'm doing this right. I too am on a couple LDS dating sites. The term "average" does include average women as far as body-weight. I've also been accused of wanting someone "perfect" but it's been said over and over that the "average" US women is like size 14. I've been involved with a few of those and all of them did not like their bodies because they thought they were too large.

I appreciate above all others and people DO want someone they're attracted to. I remember a single sister in my ward saying that one day she saw Keanu Reeves on the street. I almost thought she was going to pass-out. lol This cute girl with a Temple Recommend was sounding like some 12 year old girl.

There's also been studies that say that babies tend to crawl towards a more attractive woman, than an average or less than average women. I think some things about attraction are just embedded in us from birth perhaps. There's is NO WAY that a 9 month old baby has been taught to only go after pretty girls.

I've read some profiles on some really beautiful girls and some have really sounded stuck on themselves and that's a big turn-off. For instance, when a girl says, "I want a really hot guy." Geez, come on... that's so... 12 or 14 yr old sounding. Or when a girl's main hobby is shopping. I have a hard time thinking that someone that enjoys shopping so much is in control of their spending. They say money/finance is the main thing that causes divorce. Beauty doesn't go far when your credit cards are maxed-out and maybe even over-the-limit and your bank account is nearly negative.

Physical attraction draws a person in and that's just being honest. As someone said here, one good thing doesn't over-shadow negative traits. I'm in the process of getting my Temple Recommend and I want my future spouse to have that as well. I have no desire to be with someone who's a knock-out but never goes to church... they're only a member on paper and not in their heart.

Every now and then I'll come upon a profile/person that seems to have the "incredients" that I'm looking for... nice looks, some wit, spiritually on track, etc. and I'm drawn to them. I've been called cute, handsome, nice-looking and sometimes even beautiful, but I don't really see myself that way, but I DO believe I can get a beautiful girl. I'm also is good physical shape and like to do physical activities and some that have been interested in me were NOT in shape. I don't want someone to just WATCH me do things - I want them to be right beside me, doing them with me.

[Pan_52]

These are all really interesting points. I'm glad my topic has spurred such a discussion.

Some of these replies are truly disheartening to me, and some are inspiring. I feel a bit silly for ever putting this up because I tend to get frustrated when faced with insecurity and I kind of 'blow up' somewhere. XD

Still, it's nice to hear others' points of view.

I'm also sort of wondering if I'm giving off the wrong kind of 'vibe'. I'm more comfortable around women and I'm a bit awkward around men. It may seem like I'm brushing them off or being rude. I dunno.

[Islander]

These are all really interesting points. I'm glad my topic has spurred such a discussion.

Some of these replies are truly disheartening to me, and some are inspiring. I feel a bit silly for ever putting this up because I tend to get frustrated when faced with insecurity and I kind of 'blow up' somewhere. XD

Still, it's nice to hear others' points of view.

I'm also sort of wondering if I'm giving off the wrong kind of 'vibe'. I'm more comfortable around women and I'm a bit awkward around men. It may seem like I'm brushing them off or being rude. I dunno.

It could very well be that you are broadcasting some "vibes" that put off certain people. But again, as PC so eloquently explained, it makes sense that a young men look for the very best prospect he can find/likes based on certain assumptions about who would make a good eternal companion and physical care is just but one of those attributes.

In the other hand, most people you'll encounter in your life are 5-8 on a scale of 10. Then, average is obviously the norm to be so redundant. Rather, concentrate on being the very best you can be and that will be attractive to some.

[topsyturvy]

Just remember - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes talking to someone on the internet will help your chances if you've got more to love because your suitors get a chance to know what your personality looks like first. However, you also have the disadvantage of not being able to glow for him with the Holy Spirit, like someone else mentioned above.

Just, basically, don't lose hope. =)

[Melissa569]

Let me put it like this, if I (I can only speak for myself) see that a girl is fit, clean, and put together well this means that she probably takes care of her other responsibilities well too, she's not lazy, cares about herself, and will be a good companion and mother. On the other side if a guy is not looking for forever he will probably just take what ever is available that night, so even if she is pretty if she isn't put together propperly (dress, hair, makeup, body) it means that she is probably not someone that they want to actually be with but also does not care about herself and easier to use, abuse, or manipulate.

Well.... Sometimes looks are an indication of how a person lives their life. But their are also issues with looks that have nothing to do with weather a person takes care of themselves.

Like if they are overweight because of a thyroid condition, or because they have started taking a certain medication (yes, some medications will cause weight gain). Even birth control causes it.

On the flip side, I know tons of people who are really vain; they spend an hour getting dressed up, and walk around all day looking like a million bucks--- but its just to cover up the fact that they are a disgusting, lazy slob in private!

In fact, our room mate's ex-girlfriend is like that! She has the face of an angel, bright blue eyes, natural platinum-blond hair, perfect slim (but well endowed) body, dresses like a model, goes to professional salons (her father is a doctor and spoils her)...

BUT, she parties in bars every night, cheats on every guy she dates, leaves cluttered messes and dishes with moldy food on them all over her apartment, can't cook to save her soul, buys new clothes instead of doing laundry, and she's had 5 abortions beacuse she HATES children! And to top it off, she bounces from job to job, and is the biggest shrew you could ever meet. Sure she's really sweet when you first meet her, and pretty much has everybody fooled. But when you really get to know her, you're like... DANG! Could a person be any more ugly on the inside??

So yeah, clean-cut attractive looks aren't always a sign of being responsible, or healthy in the heart / mind.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Melissa569

[Islander]

Well.... Sometimes looks are an indication of how a person lives their life. But their are also issues with looks that have nothing to do with weather a person takes care of themselves.

Like if they are overweight because of a thyroid condition, or because they have started taking a certain medication (yes, some medications will cause weight gain). Even birth control causes it.

On the flip side, I know tons of people who are really vain; they spend an hour getting dressed up, and walk around all day looking like a million bucks--- but its just to cover up the fact that they are a disgusting, lazy slob in private!

In fact, our room mate's ex-girlfriend is like that! She has the face of an angel, bright blue eyes, natural platinum-blond hair, perfect slim (but well endowed) body, dresses like a model, goes to professional salons (her father is a doctor and spoils her)...

BUT, she parties in bars every night, cheats on every guy she dates, leaves cluttered messes and dishes with moldy food on them all over her apartment, can't cook to save her soul, buys new clothes instead of doing laundry, and she's had 5 abortions beacuse she HATES children! And to top it off, she bounces from job to job, and is the biggest shrew you could ever meet. Sure she's really sweet when you first meet her, and pretty much has everybody fooled. But when you really get to know her, you're like... DANG! Could a person be any more ugly on the inside??

So yeah, clean-cut attractive looks aren't always a sign of being responsible, or healthy in the heart / mind.

Yeah, and the devil wears Prada!!! What Ninjormon was referring to was a generality. What you describe are exceptions to the rule. Most overweight, unkept people have no thyroid or medication issues. And yes, we do make certain assumptions about people initially and time validates those. So your dirty, cheat, drunk but pretty ex-girl-friend will end up with a host of divorces and 3 kids by 4 different men. so don't worry about her.

[jlmcbride]

It seems to me that they are more into those girls that are always hanging around them that tell them their sisters and mom are pretty and are generally fake chicks that gossip about you behind your back sort of girls. As far as looks go, they seem oblivious to that too, unless you just throw yourself at them.

[BrioCyrain]

I am going to try to be on both sides of the fence here.

I have a really bad problem with what I want my eternal companion to look like..to the point of eliminating a good part of the world we live on.

That may be superficial to some, but I want a girl who I can look at all day and never get bored of it.

To some who said earlier postings that people are just stupid if they "Critique even facial features"....I am one of those people.

I remember living next to another LDS family who had plenty of girls, and the last time I saw them...it wasn't their body or anything...but they had nice personalities...and their faces and hair being pretty was the main thing.

Sure I would like someone with a fit body, but if they have knock-out eyes and pretty hair and a good sense of humor....their other body parts doesn't matter at that point in time

What I am trying to say is...you should enjoy looking at them AND being with them!