Some gospel doctrine questions

[dashb78]

Hello all! I have some questions about some doctrinal points my dad and I have been discussing lately. I would appreciate some expert answers or links to expert answers. The questions are as follows:

Why did the old testament god ask Joshua and the israelites to kill everybody innocent or not? Why did the soldiers have to cleanse and isolate themselves for awhile after killing people? Was that a form of repentance? If so, why did they have to repent if God told them to do it in the first place?

When an alcoholic or other such addict dies, can he posses a human body in attempts to regain the feeling of being under the influence of thier addiction? Are the spirits in prison, paradise, and the 1/3 of the hosts of heaven cast out with satan, mingling in the spirit world? If so, why? What rules are there in the spirit world, if any, that might impede the spirits from possessing, haunting, or interacting with the physical world? When people say that they have felt a cold hand on their body, is that a spirit actually touching them, a physical reaction due to your spirit trying to connect with the spirit world, or is this all just phooey?

Again if any of you would like to answer these questions please tell me how you got the answer (like a talk reference or LDS book/manual reference)?

Here is another:

Can anybody tell me who gave a talk about something to do with molecules and the science of miracles (It had something to do with how Christ walked on water by in a sense talking to the molecules of the water and that those molecules responded because they recognized the authority of the voice. There were other examples of miracles in this manner too)?

Thank you all :)

dashb78

[Just_A_Guy]

Not a gospel "expert" by any stretch of the imagination, but my thoughts (and I'm sorry I don't have references for these):

Why did the old testament god ask Joshua and the israelites to kill everybody innocent or not?

No idea. Maybe the indigenous peoples had some kind of sexually-transmitted disease which they had passed on to their children, who in turn could not be permitted to grow up and intermingle with the Israelites. Maybe there was the danger that the kids might harbor resentment towards the Israelites in the long run.

Why did the soldiers have to cleanse and isolate themselves for awhile after killing people? Was that a form of repentance? If so, why did they have to repent if God told them to do it in the first place?

Perhaps so that they realized the gravity of what they had been asked to do, and didn't begin to take pleasure in it?

When an alcoholic or other such addict dies, can he posses a human body in attempts to regain the feeling of being under the influence of thier addiction?

They might try, but their conduct is governed by whatever laws the Lord has laid down and (IMHO) the degree to which the living are exercising control over their own lives. It strikes me that there's a quote out there to the effect that people whose bodies are possessed by spirits have basically allowed it to happen because of the way they've lived their lives up to that point. Probably Hemidakota can look it up for you.

Are the spirits in prison, paradise, and the 1/3 of the hosts of heaven cast out with satan, mingling in the spirit world?

My understanding is that the spirit world--for everyone--is here on earth; just a different "state of being" if you will. I see no reason why all spirits wouldn't be aware of each other, but I suspect they would tend to self-select in their associations the same way people do.

What rules are there in the spirit world, if any, that might impede the spirits from possessing, haunting, or interacting with the physical world?

I don't think we know, other than that there are bounds set by the Lord beyond which they cannot go. There's a quote from Brigham Young to the effect that the devil can do whatever his knowledge enables him to do, except where he is prevented by a higher power (either God himself, or a worthy priesthood holder) (which begs the question of whether a righteous priesthood-holding-but-disembodied spirit could use the priesthood).

Can anybody tell me who gave a talk about something to do with molecules and the science of miracles (It had something to do with how Christ walked on water by in a sense talking to the molecules of the water and that those molecules responded because they recognized the authority of the voice. There were other examples of miracles in this manner too)?

Cleon Skousen gave such a talk--I think it was called "The Real Meaning of the Atonement" or something like that (the version I read was in Portuguese, and it was several years ago). The crux of the talk was that there's some kind of subatomic particle (Skousen dubs it "intelligence") that is actually capable of exercising free will, and it obeys Christ only by virtue of His Atonement and the fact that He is perfectly obedient to the laws that govern Him. It's certainly not authoritative or doctrinal, but I think it makes a lot of sense.

[Guest tomk]

Hello all! I have some questions about some doctrinal points my dad and I have been discussing lately. I would appreciate some expert answers or links to expert answers. The questions are as follows:

Why did the old testament god ask Joshua and the israelites to kill everybody innocent or not? Why did the soldiers have to cleanse and isolate themselves for awhile after killing people? Was that a form of repentance? If so, why did they have to repent if God told them to do it in the first place?

When an alcoholic or other such addict dies, can he posses a human body in attempts to regain the feeling of being under the influence of thier addiction? Are the spirits in prison, paradise, and the 1/3 of the hosts of heaven cast out with satan, mingling in the spirit world? If so, why? What rules are there in the spirit world, if any, that might impede the spirits from possessing, haunting, or interacting with the physical world? When people say that they have felt a cold hand on their body, is that a spirit actually touching them, a physical reaction due to your spirit trying to connect with the spirit world, or is this all just phooey?

Again if any of you would like to answer these questions please tell me how you got the answer (like a talk reference or LDS book/manual reference)?

Here is another:

Can anybody tell me who gave a talk about something to do with molecules and the science of miracles (It had something to do with how Christ walked on water by in a sense talking to the molecules of the water and that those molecules responded because they recognized the authority of the voice. There were other examples of miracles in this manner too)?

Thank you all :)

dashb78

This talk might help:

Not Left Comfortless: Skousen Talk

As for the rest -- understanding these seemingly hard things is easier if you understand correctly God's nature and have faith in Him (that He is always loving and wise, patient and kind).

Edited February 9, 2009 by tomk

[Traveler]

Hello all! I have some questions about some doctrinal points my dad and I have been discussing lately. I would appreciate some expert answers or links to expert answers. The questions are as follows:

Why did the old testament god ask Joshua and the israelites to kill everybody innocent or not?

.........

Thank you all :)

dashb78

I do not have time to answer all your questions but so that you understand I will answer this one. The answer is covenant and a covenant land. Those that dwell on covenant land must abide by the covenant or be swept away. This is a most important concept because – according to the Book of Mormon the USA is on covenant land. Those that allow the covenants of this land to be broken will all at some time be swept away so that the covenant land can be occupied by those willing to covenant with G-d.

The methods of preparing a covenant land is according to G-d that directs all nations and kingdoms.

The Traveler

[Hemidakota]

Americas and not the USA in general is considered the covenant land. Sweeping begins with HIS own people prior to the many lands within.

[Hemidakota]

Here is another:

Can anybody tell me who gave a talk about something to do with molecules and the science of miracles (It had something to do with how Christ walked on water by in a sense talking to the molecules of the water and that those molecules responded because they recognized the authority of the voice. There were other examples of miracles in this manner too)?

Thank you all :)

dashb78

All lower forms of intelligence recognize and honor the Savior; as they will you when you become that member of the Church of the First Born.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Hemidakota

[rameumptom]

Since I'm the only gospel expert here, I'll go ahead and answer these...

Hello all! I have some questions about some doctrinal points my dad and I have been discussing lately. I would appreciate some expert answers or links to expert answers. The questions are as follows:

Why did the old testament god ask Joshua and the israelites to kill everybody innocent or not?

Ram: The Old Testament god was Yahweh/Jehovah. Today we know him as Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament, we are told often that he is our savior and there is no other savior. He was also known anciently as the Angel of the Presence (of Elohim).

The killing, which both Moses and Joshua were commanded to do, was for a specific purpose. These societies had become extremely wicked, and no longer had God's protection. Occasionally, God will bring in a new righteous group to a promised land, which means the old group will be eliminated. We see similar in the Book of Mormon, where the Nephites absorb other groups, and where the wicked are completely destroyed (Lamanites used to punish/destroy the Nephites). And the Lord foresaw the Lamanites being hammered by the Gentiles in the last days, wherein up to 90% of Native Americans died from fighting and disease. We also see this in the story of Noah's Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc.

Remember, God warned many of those nations to repent. They refused, so God replaced them with the Israelites.

Why did the soldiers have to cleanse and isolate themselves for awhile after killing people?

Ram: It was a form of ritual cleansing. They were to be a holy people, and the rites of the Mosaic Law pointed to the cleaning of the outer body, as representation of being clean on the inside. This helped Israel to remember to be holy in all their actions, and to walk circumspectly in their lives.

Was that a form of repentance? If so, why did they have to repent if God told them to do it in the first place?

Ram: Not a form of repentance. Today's soldiers are not required to repent, either. Under the Mosaic Law, repentance came from sacrifice. The cleansing period was a time to set oneself aside from the pollutions and stresses of the world, and focus on being holy before God. It would be similar to preparing one's heart and mind prior to entering into the temple today.

When an alcoholic or other such addict dies, can he posses a human body in attempts to regain the feeling of being under the influence of thier addiction?

Ram: No. Only demons can possess bodies. Those in spirit prison will suffer their sins and misdeeds until they fully repent of them and call upon God, in Christ's name, to deliver them. This is similar to Alma's conversion, wherein he was not released from the hell he was in until he was ready and willing to give up all his sins and turn fully to Christ.

Are the spirits in prison, paradise, and the 1/3 of the hosts of heaven cast out with satan, mingling in the spirit world? If so, why?

Ram: The scriptures and writings of the prophets suggest they are not mingling. They are in separate spheres. That said, I would imagine there is a lot of peer pressure in the spirit world to continue following one's old ways - especially when you might meet up with your old drinking buddies there.

What rules are there in the spirit world, if any, that might impede the spirits from possessing, haunting, or interacting with the physical world? When people say that they have felt a cold hand on their body, is that a spirit actually touching them, a physical reaction due to your spirit trying to connect with the spirit world, or is this all just phooey?

Ram: Occasionally, the veil can be lifted or thin. People can see their ancestors and others in the spirit world, just as President Joseph F. Smith did in D&C 138. I do believe that hauntings are more often occasioned by people suffering in the spirit world, than from demons, whose work would be different (trying to destroy us by tempting us to sin).

Of course, it could also be one who is not yet embodied, but is awaiting birth. I've known members who have seen some of their children, prior to being pregnant.

Can anybody tell me who gave a talk about something to do with molecules and the science of miracles (It had something to do with how Christ walked on water by in a sense talking to the molecules of the water and that those molecules responded because they recognized the authority of the voice. There were other examples of miracles in this manner too)?

Ram: I would imagine that such would have been given by one of our LDS scientist scholar/church leaders, such as James Talmage, BH Roberts, John Widtsoe; or perhaps from a LDS scholar such as Pres Eyring's father, who was a reknowned chemist and scientist.

[Sergg]

I do not have time to answer all your questions but so that you understand I will answer this one. The answer is covenant and a covenant land. Those that dwell on covenant land must abide by the covenant or be swept away. This is a most important concept because – according to the Book of Mormon the USA is on covenant land. Those that allow the covenants of this land to be broken will all at some time be swept away so that the covenant land can be occupied by those willing to covenant with G-d.

The methods of preparing a covenant land is according to G-d that directs all nations and kingdoms.

The Traveler

For an arab, the problem is that those already living at 'covenant-lands' -by the time the israelites came to do the 'Lord's justice'-, didnt enter into any covenant at all as to have broken it, to begin with. At least -of course- as long as Lds scriptures go.

So, as long as to Scripture or 'sacred history' of any christian or jewish-related religion or sect, those people Joshua killed broke a covenant that they did not enter into.

[prospectmom]

I enjoy reading this thread .. learning some and well thanks don't have an opinion yet that I would share except what I just said. :}

[Maxel]

I'm inclined to believe that if God orders a people exterminated, then He has given that people ample time to repent and turn to Him, yet they have not. In the Book of Mormon, all the peoples brought to inhabit the land by God were expressly told it was a 'covenant land' or a 'promised land', yet the descendants of those original emigrants are unaware of the fact- that doesn't mean that somewhere along the line the people willingly chose to abandon God's will and choose another path.

I'm quite sure the people that Joshua killed were aware that they were living in a covenant land and that they had disobeyed God's decrees and that they had been warned of the impending destruction. Unless you have proof of otherwise...

[Traveler]

For an arab, the problem is that those already living at 'covenant-lands' -by the time the israelites came to do the 'Lord's justice'-, didnt enter into any covenant at all as to have broken it, to begin with. At least -of course- as long as Lds scriptures go.

So, as long as to Scripture or 'sacred history' of any christian or jewish-related religion or sect, those people Joshua killed broke a covenant that they did not enter into.

Your assumption that the "people Joshua killed" had no other options is not true at all and is somewhat misleading.

The Traveler

[GingerGolden]

Ram: Occasionally, the veil can be lifted or thin. People can see their ancestors and others in the spirit world, just as President Joseph F. Smith did in D&C 138. I do believe that hauntings are more often occasioned by people suffering in the spirit world, than from demons, whose work would be different (trying to destroy us by tempting us to sin).

Of course, it could also be one who is not yet embodied, but is awaiting birth. I've known members who have seen some of their children, prior to being pregnant.

Thank you for this comment rameumptom.

This makes a great deal of sense to me.

I also had visual flashes of my children while I was carrying them.

Although, they were both in embryo Both of them appeared to me, right after laying down, but not yet asleep as if they were about 2/3 years old.

A very sweet feeling and precious treasure, indeed.

My thread on Spirit People.

Edited March 3, 2009 by GingerGolden

[Moksha]

What rules are there in the spirit world, if any, that might impede the spirits from possessing, haunting, or interacting with the physical world?

The laws of life and death, and that only Jesus holds the key to resurrection.

[Hemidakota]

I'm inclined to believe that if God orders a people exterminated, then He has given that people ample time to repent and turn to Him, yet they have not. In the Book of Mormon, all the peoples brought to inhabit the land by God were expressly told it was a 'covenant land' or a 'promised land', yet the descendants of those original emigrants are unaware of the fact- that doesn't mean that somewhere along the line the people willingly chose to abandon God's will and choose another path.

I'm quite sure the people that Joshua killed were aware that they were living in a covenant land and that they had disobeyed God's decrees and that they had been warned of the impending destruction. Unless you have proof of otherwise...

In fact the Savior did and as a whole, collectively, they did not repent. This is a common theme for this world, when we rebel as a nation, a area, a region, a state, a city, and a family.

[Hemidakota]

Here is another:

Can anybody tell me who gave a talk about something to do with molecules and the science of miracles (It had something to do with how Christ walked on water by in a sense talking to the molecules of the water and that those molecules responded because they recognized the authority of the voice. There were other examples of miracles in this manner too)?

Thank you all :)

dashb78

The Savior is not bounded by physical laws of this telestial state but on the order of Celestial Laws. Another area to think about is the the term 'HONOR' and how it implies our usage and control over lesser intelligences and laws of this world.

No different in having summer weather here in California in winter time. Did nature do it or man?

[Madriglace]

I'm inclined to believe that if God orders a people exterminated, then He has given that people ample time to repent and turn to Him, yet they have not. In the Book of Mormon, all the peoples brought to inhabit the land by God were expressly told it was a 'covenant land' or a 'promised land', yet the descendants of those original emigrants are unaware of the fact- that doesn't mean that somewhere along the line the people willingly chose to abandon God's will and choose another path.

I'm quite sure the people that Joshua killed were aware that they were living in a covenant land and that they had disobeyed God's decrees and that they had been warned of the impending destruction. Unless you have proof of otherwise...

Thanks for this insite. I remember teaching a class in SS for my 14-15 years where a scriputre reallyhit me for the first time....

Hel. 13: 38

38 But behold, your days of probation are past; ye have procrastinated the day of your salvation until it is everlastingly too late, and your destruction is made sure; yea, for ye have sought all the days of your lives for that which ye could not obtain; and ye have sought for happiness in doing iniquity, which thing is dcontrary to the nature of that righteousness which is in our great and Eternal Head.

The Lord will work with us only so long and then by our choice it is "everlastingly too late". Like the people Joshua was commanded to take care of, the Jaredites, the Nephites and a whole lot of the Lamenites we cannot count on the Lord to wait until we get around to it. Pretty powerful stuff.