Word of Wisdom: a Temporal or Eternal law?


Janice
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My point was that it doesn't matter if Jesus drank wine or grape juice...our commandment now is that we not drink it, so are you really going to to to your temple recommend interview and say "Well Bishop, I drink a glass of wine with dinner every night, but I think i should still be allowed to go to the temple because Jesus drank wine."

My point was that it is a commandment now, so we should follow it now, and not be pre-occupied with when we won't have to anymore, or with why we're the only ones that have to.

This is what I meant: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/18040-word-wisdom-temporal-eternal-law-2.html#post330661

Ok, thanks. I can now say with confidence that I did understand that you were saying, but once again, I feel like you have not even come close to understanding me.

Did you miss the many times in this thread when I stated that I don't have a problem keeping the WoW? That I have never in my life tasted any alcohol, used tobacco, or drank tea?

Where on earth did you come up with this:

"Well Bishop, I drink a glass of wine with dinner every night, but I think i should still be allowed to go to the temple because Jesus drank wine."

it is a commandment now, so we should follow it now

Riiiight. Please tell me where I have ever said anything different.

and not be pre-occupied with when we won't have to anymore

Umm, I'm not pre-occupied with when I won't "have to anymore". I really have no interest in the stuff I'm commanded not to partake. I do, however, have an interest in knowing WHY we have certain commandments.

or with why we're the only ones that have to

Ok, on this one I am guilty as charged. But, and maybe I am wrong so please avoid the flames and shame casting if I am, but it seems to me that when I question why, you take it as some sort of rebellion on my part.

If I am not wrong, and you do perceive my questioning why as some sort of rebellion, then... well, I'm confused as to why you think the way you do.

I live WoW to the absolute T. It's never been a temptation. I understand the fundamentals of the law. I get it. I am on board. No problem here.

Is there really something wrong with looking at the law in the context of history and saying, "Huh. Interesting. We seem to be the first people in history who have been given this commandment. That's curious. I wonder why that is."

Janice

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Janice, I never misunderstood you. I read where you repeatedly said that you live the Word of Wisdom. I am not indicating (nor have) that you are in rebellion. All I did was express the opinion that I don't think it matters why. It's been given to us, and that's that. 'Why' shouldn't matter.

You seem to be awfully defensive at anything I have to say.

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Janice, I never misunderstood you. I read where you repeatedly said that you live the Word of Wisdom. I am not indicating (nor have) that you are in rebellion. All I did was express the opinion that I don't think it matters why. It's been given to us, and that's that. 'Why' shouldn't matter.

You seem to be awfully defensive at anything I have to say.

I think the why is pretty obvious when you look at brain function as opposed to the anatomy of the brain. Alcohol, illegal, tobacco, and marajuana, mess up your brain's ability to function properly. I suspect that the reason why we're not allowed to have coffee, and green, black, and grey teas are because of the tannins.

However, we did not know that stuff back then. So, the Saints had to go by faith. I am sure that when the Prophet announced the Word of Wisdom that the Spirit confirmed to the people the importance of it, and so they followed. But they had to already have had experiences with the Spirit. Why was the word not given right away? Because the church was new. The Saints would not have been ready to give up tobacco and alcohol, and many souls would have been lost.

Janice, your last comments are different from what your post originally asked. Is the Word of Wisdom temporal, or not? That's a different question from asking why we have it in the first place.

Why was the Mosiac law temporal? Unless I'm mistaken much of it wasn't. It was an eternal Telestial law. When Moses first came down from the mount he had the Celestial Law on those stones, not the ten commandments. Also some of the laws that came later, however strict and insane they may seem, were given because the Israelites were so easily swayed off the path of righteousness. They had to be commanded in all things, which we know the Lord disapproves of. It's why it was necessary for Jesus Christ to fulfill the law. He made it Celestial instead of Telestial.

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If it was Wine, it had only minutes to ferment when we noticed it in the marriage feast. No! The Savior knew exactly what was a eternal value for His life and health. I highly doubt if he associated Himself anything less.

I disagree. The story ends with the remark that ordinarily the best wine was served at the beginning of the wedding; but that in this case the best wine had come at the end.

Why the longstanding practice of serving the best wine first? Because (as Talmage points out in Jesus the Christ, if I remember correctly), by the end of the feast everyone was usually too wasted to care what they were drinking.

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Janice, your last comments are different from what your post originally asked. Is the Word of Wisdom temporal, or not? That's a different question from asking why we have it in the first place.

Not in my mind.

We seem to be the first people in history to have it, which, in my mind, raises two questions:

1) Why do we have it today when nobody else ever did? What has changed?

2) The fact that his law seems to be "new" would, to me anyways, indicate that it's not an eternal law. Maybe I am not using the right words? By "eternal" I mean simply it was not given to Adam, Noah, Abraham, Peter, James, John, or even Joseph Smith until well into the restoration. Thus, my original question.

Janice

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However, we did not know that stuff back then. So, the Saints had to go by faith. I am sure that when the Prophet announced the Word of Wisdom that the Spirit confirmed to the people the importance of it, and so they followed. But they had to already have had experiences with the Spirit. Why was the word not given right away? Because the church was new. The Saints would not have been ready to give up tobacco and alcohol, and many souls would have been lost.

FWIW, the Word of Wisdom in some respects closely parallels the so-called Graham Diet introduced around 1829 (though the underlying rationale was vastly different!). Sylvester Graham (inventor of the Graham Cracker) may be the reason that Seventh-Day Adventists follow a code very similar to our own WoW.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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In terns of abiding by the law or not, the why doesn't matter at all. But does that mean that it's wrong to be curious?

Seriously, are you looking for a fight? I already said that I wasn't trying to argue. I'm not saying you're wrong.

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First of all, I'd like to apologize to everyone involved if my remarks seemed aimed at any one person, which they were most definitely not. I have taken greater time to explain them here. I wasn't going to post on this thread again, but I feel MoE made a good point and wanted to address it. I thought it would be inappropriate to post again without addressing the preceding issue of contention, at least briefly.

I particularly apologize to Janice and Wingnut, as an inadequate expression of my opinion led the former to mistakenly attribute my comments to the latter. I am seriously upset that I helped cause so much pain.

Let’s consider for a moment Maxel’s discussion about the “weak and the weakest of the saints.” ... [by the way, Maxel, your argument on this point is strengthened if you cross reference “weak and the weakest” with the baptismal covenant given by Alma to “bear one another’s burdens that they may be light.”]

I had never made that connection before- thanks, MoE.
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I particularly apologize to Janice and Wingnut, as an inadequate expression of my opinion led the former to mistakenly attribute my comments to the latter. I am seriously upset that I helped cause so much pain.

I don't think you owe anyone an apology. I honestly thought Wingnut was saying we aught not question. You certainly didn't cause me any pain.

Thank you for your willingness to make peace.

Janice

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I've never had a problem understanding the fundamentals of WoW. As I was afraid would happen, some people seem to think that because I asked questions about the WoW (mainly, why?) that I have a concern, grudge, or complaint against this commandment. I don't. Or, some seem to think I don't understand it. I do.

We've been commanded to not partake of certain substances. I'm on board with that. I'm just curious why this commandment was never in place before our time, and why we are the first people being asked to live by it. By asking this, I am NOT suggesting that I don't like it, that I don't understand the fundamentals of it, or that I am looking for a reason to not live by it, which is what some of the posts seem to imply. I am only seeking a little more understanding into the why's of this law.

Thank you, Maxel, for offering wonderfully clear insights and pointers to scripture that shed light on exactly what I was looking for.

I don't think I've ever done this, but as long as we are wagging fingers and casting shame on each other, shame on anyone who suggest that there is anything wrong with questioning why commandments are given.

Janice

It was on certain food/drinking elements since the time of Adam.

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I haven't read all the posts have been away but as is often quoted in church talks is the genius of Mormonism is the temporal is spiritual and the spiritual is temporal.

Following the temporal laws increases our spirituality and our increased spirituality increases our understanding of the temporal.

I know the people I have met who have the lived the Word of Wisdom to the utmost understanding in this life have all the blessings it promises, I don't many Mormon's who live this law to the fullest to truly understand the spiritual aspect of it. Most of us mortals need to plug away with the temporal until we understand the spiritual.

-Charley

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Would any of this apply to Synthahol? I mean, you can supposedly shake off the effects when your shift begins.

How about Romulan Ale or Klingon Blood Wine?

I've never drunk wine, not planning on it. I don't think about.

Can anyone here boast that they have not been within 10 parsecs of wine?

:assimilate:

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