Second Anointing


bytor2112
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  • 11 years later...

I would like to add some details to the Tom Phillips' story and his second anointing experience. He is right about the date, Sunday the 19th of may 2002. I know this because I used to work at the Preston Temple (security department) and that day I was working. So I can confirm that Tom Phillips and his wife were not among the people who attended the temple that day. When I arrived to the temple my companion who I had to relieved told me that I should stay at the recommendation desk because some General Authorities and others members would attend the temple and I was told that a member of the temple presidency was already there (My companion was mistaken. it  was not a temple presidency member, the brother already there was Brother Atkins , the temple recorder). I was shocked for the information. So the first to show up was Elder Ballard and followed by Elder and sister Hillam and Elder and sister Peterson. After checking all their recommendations they disappeared. About 20 minutes later, I think, the couples arrived one after another one. They were taken by Elder Peterson and led them inside while Elder Hillam informed me that nobody was allowed to get into the temple. I was also informed that the doors must be locked and I could not leave the recommendation desk under any condition.  I think it was around one later, Elder Hillam came to me and asked me to followed him. I was informed that one of the sisters fainted on the floor and my help was needed ( I was a first aider). He took me to the big sealing room which is normally used for living sealings. Once inside, I noticed that only the couples were wearing temple clothes. The G.A. and their wives where wearing white clothing as temple workers. After helping the sister, I was told to return to my place at the recommendation desk. Around one later, all the couples were living the temple escorting by the G.A. and Elder Ballard and the other G.A, went back inside. A few minutes later, all of them were ready to leave but Elder Ballard approached to me and said to the others that he wanted to talk to me. I was shocked. My legs were shaking. He took me to the temple presidency office and told me that he knew that I had questions. I was very nervous and said that everything was alright. He insisted and said that it was a unique opportunity to ask him about it. So I was brave and said that if the portable golden horn at the living sealing room was for the second anointing and the white jars and white basin in the other sealings rooms were used to the washing of feet ordinance. He took my hand and shook it firmly and with a big smile said to me that all my questions had been answered. We were heading to the main door and they left. I would like to say again at this point that Brother Tom Phillips and his wife were not among the couples that day. So it is not true his tale about the second anointing.

Edited by Emrys Fellows
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14 minutes ago, Emrys Fellows said:

I would like to add some details to the Tom Phillips' story and his second anointing experience. He is right about the date, Sunday the 19th of may 2002. I know this because I used to work at the Preston Temple (security department) and that day I was working. So I can confirm that Tom Phillips and his wife were not among the people who attended the temple that day. When I arrived to the temple my companion who I had to relieved told me that I should stay at the recommendation desk because some General Authorities and others members would attend the temple and I was told that a member of the temple presidency was already there (My companion was mistaken. it  was not a temple presidency member, the brother already there was Brother Atkins , the temple recorder). I was shocked for the information. So the first to show up was Elder Ballard and followed by Elder and sister Hillam and Elder and sister Peterson. After checking all their recommendations they disappeared. About 20 minutes later, I think, the couples arrived one after another one. They were taken by Elder Peterson and led them inside while Elder Hillam informed me that nobody was allowed to get into the temple. I was also informed that the doors must be locked and I could not leave the recommendation desk under any condition.  I think it was around one later, Elder Hillam came to me and asked me to followed him. I was informed that one of the sisters fainted on the floor and my help was needed ( I was a first aider). He took me to the big sealing room which is normally used for living sealings. Once inside, I noticed that only the couples were wearing temple clothes. The G.A. and their wives where wearing white clothing as temple workers. After helping the sister, I was told to return to my place at the recommendation desk. Around one later, all the couples were living the temple escorting by the G.A. and Elder Ballard and the other G.A, went back inside. A few minutes later, all of them were ready to leave but Elder Ballard approached to me and said to the others that he wanted to talk to me. I was shocked. My legs were shaking. He took me to the temple presidency office and told me that he knew that I had questions. I was very nervous and said that everything was alright. He insisted and said that it was a unique opportunity to ask him about it. So I was brave and said that if the portable golden horn at the living sealing room was for the second anointing and the white jars and white basin in the other sealings rooms were used to the washing of feet ordinance. He took my hand and shook it firmly and with a big smile said to me that all my questions had been answered. We were heading to the main door and they left. I would like to say again at this point that Brother Tom Phillips and his wife were not among the couples that day. So it is not true his tale about the second anointing.

I'd never believe in anything that  Tom Phillips has to say.  He sued President Monson for pete's sake.  

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I can tell you an anecdote from an official Church Historian.

He was present as a temple worker with the Temple President of the Dallas temple (I could be wrong about the temple) many years ago (I believe it was in the 90s).  At the time, one of the apostles was visiting.  He (the historian) was not told of the reason for the visit.  At some point the apostle asked the temple president:

Quote

How many people have had their second anointings since you've been president? 

The president responded:

Quote

None, as far as I know.

The historian then told me that although he'd heard about it, he didn't know until then that it was a real ordinance.  But to his (the historian's) knowledge no one he knew ever received it.

If we can believe this anecdote (and I have no reason to doubt his stories as a Church Historian) then I'd tend to believe that the ordinance has been withheld from this era due to lack of faithfulness, righteousness, etc. It is a shame that even the faithful are denied blessings because there are too many unfaithful that take lightly the things the Lord has provided.

Edited by Carborendum
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8 minutes ago, Vort said:

The '90s don't seem like "many years ago" to me. Guess I'm getting old. As if I hadn't already figured that out.

That was over 20 years ago, my friend.

I, myself, was shocked when I found myself saying,"I remember that I did X about 20 years ago."  Then I found myself saying that about 30 years.  Then 40...

It's a shock each time.  BTW, I found my first "persistent" gray hair the other day.  SMH.

Edited by Carborendum
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10 hours ago, Vort said:

The '90s don't seem like "many years ago" to me. Guess I'm getting old. As if I hadn't already figured that out.

Doesn't to me either.   I have 2 kids that were born in 1991.  But when I realize that next month they will be 29, it then seems like a long time ago  

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3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I can tell you an anecdote from an official Church Historian.

He was present as a temple worker with the Temple President of the Dallas temple (I could be wrong about the temple) many years ago (I believe it was in the 90s).  At the time, one of the apostles was visiting.  He (the historian) was not told of the reason for the visit.  At some point the apostle asked the temple president:

The president responded:

The historian then told me that although he'd heard about it, he didn't know until then that it was a real ordinance.  But to his (the historian's) knowledge no one he knew ever received it.

If we can believe this anecdote (and I have no reason to doubt his stories as a Church Historian) then I'd tend to believe that the ordinance has been withheld from this era due to lack of faithfulness, righteousness, etc. It is a shame that even the faithful are denied blessings because there are too many unfaithful that take lightly the things the Lord has provided.

I wouldn't quite say that, but more that the time for it to be widespread is not currently here. 

One of the stories (meaning there are others that claim to be as well) of it's origin in our modern day is that this blessing was given to those who were members of the council of 50.  It was to enable them to be part of the world and do certain actions, but having the assurances that they were still blessed even as they were part of the world trying to enact the worldly portion of it in order to bring about the Kingdom of God on Earth in the more physical sense (the Kingdom originally was not just a spiritual existence where we fulfilled it spiritually, but one that incorporated ALL the aspects a real kingdom would, meaning both our physical and spiritual needs and wants in this world).

This became an even greater idea and item (and with great suffering) under Brigham Young and ensuing Presidents for the next few decades after him.

There came a point, however, that this was no longer seen as necessary.  They did not have as many in these types of positions and the ordinance was no longer really necessary.  HOWEVER, it was needed for the preservation of the ordinance, even if the actual ordinance was not as necessary as it was in earlier times.

All the blessings that are given in the temple are predicated upon righteousness, and the blessings that most members receive are the ones needed for salvation.  The ordinance given to the Council of the fifty is not normally requisite for most members to receive exaltation (from my understanding).  If you are righteous and the Holy Spirit of Promise seals the blessings upon your head, you will receive that which is promised in the temple. 

A great misunderstanding of the Second Anointing has been around for many years (and it may be one reason Heber J. Grant wanted to get the members away from trying to get it as much) in that people thought it was necessary for exaltation during this life.  Modern interpretations have it that this probably is not so, as it was specifically a blessing originally intended more as protection.

The confusion comes in that people mix it up with the Second Comforter and the Lord telling us personally that we will receive are inheritance and exaltation.  This does not happen during the Second Anointing (as far as I know) specifically.  There is some speculation that in order for it to be completed, one would need to have this experience, but that is ONLY if one is having the Holy Spirit seal the blessing and the Savior officially authorizes it in person.  Otherwise, this is more a blessing of protection in many ways and assurances.

It does NOT replace the Lord telling us that we receive exaltation (calling and election made sure), only the LORD is the judge and only the LORD makes the final judgment and decisions on that (as far as I know).  With few exceptions, this blessing is now normally for the preservation of the ordinance on the earth in our time in preparation for the restoration of ALL things upon the Earth and the Lord's coming.

However, for each of us, when we die is when we will meet the Lord.  It may not necessarily be at his second coming on earth, but that time we meet him and he says we have fulfilled all we need will be at death and the next life.  We have the ordinances necessary for salvation at this time (at least as per what we've been taught).

The Lord is the one who makes one's Calling and Election made sure.  Even with the second Anointing, without the Holy Spirit of Promise sealing it upon one's head, there is no guarantee.  The Lord must ALSO agree and seal it upon one's head.  One may have the ordinance, but without that, it is as to have multiple sealings in the temple but with none of them sealed upon one's head by the Holy Spirit of Promise, they would have none.

Today, as I said, the reasons for the Second Anointing to be given originally no longer really exist for most people.  However, I see it more as a preservation of the ordinance so all the keys that are in practice may be utilized today as a fullness, rather than a necessity for most people that receive it today.

Though...and I add this caveat...I do not know ALL things (obviously).  The prophet, if he so desired, could make it an ordinance open to all (and I wouldn't mind it, it probably would be a great assurance to those who have been righteous all their lives, if he did something such as all over 55 who had faithfully attended throughout their lives and paid all their tithes could attain it, I would not mind...BUT....that does not seem to be the course they are aiming for currently).

Edited by JohnsonJones
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On 5/1/2020 at 11:30 AM, Carborendum said:

If we can believe this anecdote (and I have no reason to doubt his stories as a Church Historian) then I'd tend to believe that the ordinance has been withheld from this era due to lack of faithfulness, righteousness, etc. It is a shame that even the faithful are denied blessings because there are too many unfaithful that take lightly the things the Lord has provided.

The only mention I found was in an institute manual

In chapter 19 (Eternal Life), it begins with

Caution: Exercise caution while discussing the doctrine of having our calling and election made
sure. Avoid speculation. Use only the sources given here and in the student manual. Do not attempt 
in any way to discuss or answer questions about the second anointing.

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On 5/1/2020 at 9:49 AM, Carborendum said:

That was over 20 years ago, my friend.

I, myself, was shocked when I found myself saying,"I remember that I did X about 20 years ago."  Then I found myself saying that about 30 years.  Then 40...

It's a shock each time.  BTW, I found my first "persistent" gray hair the other day.  SMH.

You have hair?  

For the record my hair did not fall out - they all fell in and that is where all my hair brained ideas come from.  And as I have always said - I do not understand the men want to use up all their hormones growing hair.

 

The Traveler

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I would ask if it even matters? Most if not all of us will never receive such an ordinance, if it even exists. The arm of the Lord will be revealed and we will not be able to stand. The Lord told us this in 3 Nephi, the Gentiles will fall short and fail to accept the fullness of the gospel. Do the best you can and be faithful in this life and let the world spiral away into the abyss and pray you or your loved ones can either survive the day, or hope they can remain faithful, even in the face of death. Sorry if this is overly pessimistic, but these times are really getting to me today. Good luck.

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6 hours ago, Traveler said:

You have hair?  

For the record my hair did not fall out - they all fell in and that is where all my hair brained ideas come from.  And as I have always said - I do not understand the men want to use up all their hormones growing hair.

 

The Traveler

I can believe it. 😄

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