Extremely Conflicted on Scouting


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Actually his first sentence in his second paragraph is directly referring to my post, #38, as was

hrrc's post (42), and hrrc's post (43) who were right before MOE"s (44). They quoted me and were trying to help me, and others who might read it, understand. I really appreciate that, by the way.

#38 was my original post, please read it, and Bl8tant's post and Hrrc's that quoted me as well, and then read MOE's post so you can see my perspective here.

If MOE was not referring to my post, I will most certainly apologize. Did someone else, besides me, mention or in any way bring up the YW program that MOE is referring to? What problem is he/she speaking of? Maybe I could just understand a little bit better. If there is a different post he/she is referring to maybe I could read it to learn from this. Maybe I just jumped the gun.

Thank you for trying to help me understand.

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Actually his first sentence in his second paragraph is directly referring to my post, #38, as was

hrrc's post (42), and hrrc's post (43) who were right before MOE"s (44). They quoted me and were trying to help me, and others who might read it, understand. I really appreciate that, by the way.

#38 was my original post, please read it, and Bl8tant's post and Hrrc's that quoted me as well, and then read MOE's post so you can see my perspective here.

If MOE was not referring to my post, I will most certainly apologize. Did someone else, besides me, mention or in any way bring up the YW program that MOE is referring to? What problem is he/she speaking of? Maybe I could just understand a little bit better. If there is a different post he/she is referring to maybe I could read it to learn from this. Maybe I just jumped the gun.

Thank you for trying to help me understand.

It was in reference to your comment, but not directed at you. It was a statement that in general, if the YW program is significantly harder than scouting, then the scouting program isn't being run correctly.

Although, upon reflection, I suppose it's also possible that the scouting program is being run correctly but the local YW leaders are making it far too difficult on the girls. Either way, something in amiss.

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Thank you MOE, I really am a very nice person...most of the time...I do have my moments, which shows what a great guy I'm married to. Our YW do a lot of service, but I don't think they do enough scripture discussion, maybe they get plenty in seminary, though.

but back to the topic I was talking about, I think that there might be 2 reasons that the focus may be changing from scouting to Duty to God. It can't be about training in this case. Though, I'm not positive.

1. D t G is more of spiritual growth than scouting is (? Just a guess), and

2. D t G will be on a world wide scale, unifying the YM in the church everywhere even more, which is kinda amazing.

Whichever the reason, change can be both scary and exciting. If you want I'll let you know how the change is going 'round these parts as things develop.

I'm sure they'll keep a lot of the activities, our YM are really great YM, I'm sure they'll rise to the challenge wherever it comes from.

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Thank you MOE, I really am a very nice person...most of the time...I do have my moments, which shows what a great guy I'm married to. Our YW do a lot of service, but I don't think they do enough scripture discussion, maybe they get plenty in seminary, though.

but back to the topic I was talking about, I think that there might be 2 reasons that the focus may be changing from scouting to Duty to God. It can't be about training in this case. Though, I'm not positive.

1. D t G is more of spiritual growth than scouting is (? Just a guess), and

2. D t G will be on a world wide scale, unifying the YM in the church everywhere even more, which is kinda amazing.

Whichever the reason, change can be both scary and exciting. If you want I'll let you know how the change is going 'round these parts as things develop.

I'm sure they'll keep a lot of the activities, our YM are really great YM, I'm sure they'll rise to the challenge wherever it comes from.

You can share your experiences if you like. They wont' have much affect on my scouting experience however. I work with a troop sponsored by an Episcopalian church, and I have a hard time seeing myself ever going back to an LDS troop.

Edited by MarginOfError
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  • 3 weeks later...

However, while I like the scouting program, I have nothing but disdain for the organization and the infrastructure. Particularly in light of a Deseret News article from 2007 that explained, in some detail, where all that money from ward Friends of Scouting drives actually goes; the recent completely unnecessary change in uniforms (which I suspect was a gimmick to get a bunch of kids to spend another $30 for new shirts); and the BSA's general policy of nickel-and-diming its members wherever possible.

Opinions?

I'm an Eagle Scout. Former Cubmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster/11-year-olds. Honestly, I was so put off when I found out how much these professional scouts make, especially the director, that I won't support the organization and would be happy if the church made its own program. Seriously.

Read The (almost) million-dollar Boy Scout. Thrifty, indeed! - OC Watchdog : The Orange County Register and you'll see something ridiculous. Why do I have to be nickled-and-dimed every year for friends of scouting? Why do you have to come crawling to me for more money? Get it from all your fat cats!

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  • 7 months later...

I still feel new to the church and I'm still the Scoutmaster. I'm told this may be a lifetime calling :).

I'm finding patience is the primary attribute needed for any leader in Scouting and in the Church. In the past year and nine months the troop has developed an active committee that's parent supported, sent nine leaders to adult leader training for Boy Scouts, sent one leader to adult leader training for Venture, and begun going to camporees again.

Like missionary work, this troop has had to progress slowly without any grand miracles. The most beautiful thing is that there is an excitement around this troop I never saw before. I'm hopeful this excitement will pass on to the rest of these young men's lives.

I guess if a person is waiting for conflict resolution like I was back in 2009, all they have to do is work at providing a quality program and let God do the rest of the work at softening people's hearts and opening their eyes to what the program provided; quality young men with character, who understand citizenship, and strive for personal growth.

Understanding conflict resolution doesn't happen on my time,

Joe

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  • 1 month later...

OK, here's the deal:

I'm an eagle scout. I liked the program when I was in it; I like the aims of scouting; I like the merit badges; I like the books; I even like the uniforms.

However, while I like the scouting program, I have nothing but disdain for the organization and the infrastructure. Particularly in light of a Deseret News article from 2007 that explained, in some detail, where all that money from ward Friends of Scouting drives actually goes; the recent completely unnecessary change in uniforms (which I suspect was a gimmick to get a bunch of kids to spend another $30 for new shirts); and the BSA's general policy of nickel-and-diming its members wherever possible.

Not a big deal, except that recently I was called into the scouting program in my ward. Part of my duties is to go to the monthly Roundtable meetings. So, I went last week, and some buffoon from the Council gets up and what does he start talking about? Numbers. Particularly, the statistics needed to become a "quality unit", the number of "quality units" in the council, and how attaining the unit's Friends of Scouting donation quotas can help that unit to become a "quality unit". Not once did anyone say anything about the boys. It was all about institutional numbers--particularly dollar amounts. I was so disgusted that I walked out of the meeting.

So, I want to do right by my calling, by the boys, and by the Church. On the other hand, I have serious misgivings about donating my resources to an organization that I view as corrupt and that I frankly believe to be bilking the Church and its members.

Opinions?

I could not agree more. I still feel like heaving when I think of the cash I have given the friends of scouting reps from our ward who never told me where the money was going. In fact - I was blown away by the salaries these guys get. What a racket. personally I think the Church could start its own program and save a lot of money.

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I apologize if my opinion is a bit long. Please read it all the way through before replying.

I'm coming to understand the misgivings about donating resources to an organization that is viewed as corrupt. I don't believe that Scouting is any more corrupt the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, though. I don't believe the Church is corrupt.

Scouting, like the Church, is made up of people and people are imperfect. There are numerous third party reports (i.e. The New York Times) that state that the Church has the largest number of safety violations of any non-profit organization. These reports are coupled with the fact that the highest number of fatalities in Scouting are in LDS units.

From the outside just a few years ago, I thought the Church was the most corrupt and arrogant bunch of idiots I had ever come across. I was wrong. The Church is not corrupt, nor is the Church so arrogant that its leaders walk out of meetings.

I'm pretty sure our Prophet Thomas S. Monson didn't walk out of his meetings while serving in his Scouting position nationally. I know that my Stake President is the person who organizes meetings for Friends of Scouting (FOS) as he is the District FOS Chairperson.

My opinion is that the Church and Scouting are both integral parts to the growth and development of all the young men within our ward boundaries, not just those young men in our ward. My opinion is that we (you and I) are the Scouting program. The guy who said we're still doing "quality unit" is living in last year. The quality unit award was cancelled after 2010 and replaced with a new program that focuses on individual unit progress, which helps out many small LDS units.

The money I provide Scouting is coming directly back to my young men, because they participate. The institutional numbers help me, because I can know how much more missionary work I can do for young men within my ward boundaries. For example, the numbers the Scouting office generated showed units that gave more to FOS had more young men in their program.

Our unit has just caught on to the idea that the program brings in more young men. We do the best we can with the portion of the young men's budget we can. We try and help all the young men in the council by participating in events and the Friends of Scouting program.

Forgive the scouters of the council that made a bad choice by trying to buy a car for the executive. Move forward. We are the example for all other churches and all other Scouting unit in our ward boundaries.

My question: What would you give to help bring a non-member young man to know Jesus Christ and come to Him?

The Church does not exclude anyone, that is why I believe the Church continues backing Scouting. Should the Church start its own program, the Church would strip itself of a great missionary tool.

Use Scouting, the great and powerful tool, to its fullest potential and seek to magnify your calling! Be the example by showing you and all LDS units are the example of Scouting done right!

Remember that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to His purpose. You have the option to voluntarily step down from your calling. For some reason, I don't think you're the type of person to back away from what God has called you to do. I believe you have been called for a very specific purpose, just as I have. Magnify your calling. Go back and attend Roundtable regularly until your name is a household name. Get to know your District and Council Executives until they know you by face. The sheep that follow are only as good as you, the shepherd.

Yours in Scouting and in Christ,

Joe

Scoutmaster

Troop 80

West Des Moines, IA

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I apologize if my opinion is a bit long. Please read it all the way through before replying.

I'm coming to understand the misgivings about donating resources to an organization that is viewed as corrupt. I don't believe that Scouting is any more corrupt the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, though. I don't believe the Church is corrupt.

As a whole, no. But we should acknowledge that some scouters are corrupt. When they are identified, they should be exposed and expunged.

Scouting, like the Church, is made up of people and people are imperfect....

Amen!

... The guy who said we're still doing "quality unit" is living in last year. The quality unit award was cancelled after 2010 and replaced with a new program that focuses on individual unit progress, which helps out many small LDS units.

I was happy to see the quality unit program discontinued. But the new program makes me laugh. It's based on an algorithm that is strikingly similar to exponential growth. It would work for a few years, but after a while, the formula breaks down and will fail to recognize quality.

The Church does not exclude anyone, that is why I believe the Church continues backing Scouting. Should the Church start its own program, the Church would strip itself of a great missionary tool.

It would also strip itself of the most age-appropriate program the Church has available for young men.

Use Scouting, the great and powerful tool, to its fullest potential and seek to magnify your calling! Be the example by showing you and all LDS units are the example of Scouting done right!

hmmmmm.....Well, all I'll say to that is that I work with a troop sponsored by an Episcopalian church. I especially love teaching the boys how to raise and lower the flag--this church flies a rainbow flag under the American and Episcopal banners. :D

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As someone who works in Scouting, I think I would almost prefer the return of the Quality Unit. The exponential growth plan, as it has been called here, is very much a joke.

So much of Scouting is not focused on the individual troops. It's on getting more and more people and looking good.

Many councils will take advantage of the Church's desire to have everyone enrolled in Scouting. Being pressured to increase membership, they go through those lists and use their power to register all these boys. Now of course they are required to get approval, but they usually go through a stake president who hasn't the foggiest idea who all these boys on the list are and just says "yeah, go ahead and register them all". This affects individual wards' troops and upsets the leaders. They pull the boys off at rechartering and it cycles all over again all in the name of pressured membership.

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In the interest of fairness, Backroads, I think we need to recognize that some of that problem in the new quality unit recognition is the eternal struggle between metrics that look good when aggregated and metrics that look good before aggregation.

To the local leader, recruiting 4 boys and helping three of them develop into strong citizens is worth it even if they never reach Eagle Scout. But at council and national levels, there simply isn't enough time to sift through the anecdotal data to recognize what is quality and what isn't.

Ideally, national would provide a framework within which councils and districts could work and interpret what constitutes a quality program in those areas. At least that would recognize that a troop that grows so much that it splits into two troops isn't actually having a reduction of membership.

The lack of flexibility is a major reason why I will continue to fill out the paperwork, but the boys in my troop and the committee will never hear me talk about it. Instead, we will continue to work to receive compliments from district and council leaders about how our troop is a model troop after which other units should pattern themselves. That, to me, is a far superior rating of quality than a checklist and a banner.

Edited by MarginOfError
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In the interest of fairness, Backroads, I think we need to recognize that some of that problem in the new quality unit recognition is the eternal struggle between metrics that look good when aggregated and metrics that look good before aggregation.

To the local leader, recruiting 4 boys and helping three of them develop into strong citizens is worth it even if they never reach Eagle Scout. But at council and national levels, there simply isn't enough time to sift through the anecdotal data to recognize what is quality and what isn't.

Ideally, national would provide a framework within which councils and districts could work and interpret what constitutes a quality program in those areas. At least that would recognize that a troop that grows so much that it splits into two troops isn't actually having a reduction of membership.

The lack of flexibility is a major reason why I will continue to fill out the paperwork, but the boys in my troop and the committee will never hear me talk about it. Instead, we will continue to work to receive compliments from district and council leaders about how our troop is a model troop after which other units should pattern themselves. That, to me, is a far superior rating of quality than a checklist and a banner.

I bolded what I feel should be celebrated as "Preach on, brother!"

I must emphasize that I speak from a very romanticized idea of scouting with a focus on the success and wonder of individual troops without regard to any other troop.

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