Forgiving God


MikeUpton
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A friend of mine is going through a very difficult time. She has had to face many trials, and she is finding it to be very difficult. She is trying to find strength to go on. She has been struggling so hard to be a good latter day saint, to keep the commandments.

As we know, being a Latter-day Saint does not exempt us from the trials of life, and there is a powerful temptation to curse God when we go through these sore trials. I refuse to take the paths of many who speak with prideful derision, I think the answer lies in gently helping her to find forgiveness in her heart and see the eternal perspective.

Knowledge is light; understanding is what she needs at this time. She needs a little help to be able to find the divine attitude of forgiveness. I am a firm believer in Joseph Smith's quote “I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves."

It is a given, that i have asked her to consult with her spiritual leaders about this matter, however it would also be nice if there were also additional teachings, books, talks from general conference, etc., speeches, and any additional input others of you have of lessons you've learned in your own life, about not turning against God in anger in your own lives, but using trial as a catalyst for good. I'm interested in this not only for her, but for me, and for anyone else who may benefit from reading this thread.

For myself I've found a scripture in the Doctrine and Covenants very useful. Its taught me that an understanding is needed of the eternal nature of our existence, and the knowledge that regardless of what occurs to us in this life, it is to our benefit. Doctrine and Covenants 122

Thank you.

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A friend of mine is going through a very difficult time. She has had to face many trials, and she is finding it to be very difficult. She is trying to find strength to go on. She has been struggling so hard to be a good latter day saint, to keep the commandments.

As we know, being a Latter-day Saint does not exempt us from the trials of life, and there is a powerful temptation to curse God when we go through these sore trials. I refuse to take the paths of many who speak with prideful derision, I think the answer lies in gently helping her to find forgiveness in her heart and see the eternal perspective.

Knowledge is light; understanding is what she needs at this time. She needs a little help to be able to find the divine attitude of forgiveness. I am a firm believer in Joseph Smith's quote “I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves."

It is a given, that i have asked her to consult with her spiritual leaders about this matter, however it would also be nice if there were also additional teachings, books, talks from general conference, etc., speeches, and any additional input others of you have of lessons you've learned in your own life, about not turning against God in anger in your own lives, but using trial as a catalyst for good. I'm interested in this not only for her, but for me, and for anyone else who may benefit from reading this thread.

For myself I've found a scripture in the Doctrine and Covenants very useful. Its taught me that an understanding is needed of the eternal nature of our existence, and the knowledge that regardless of what occurs to us in this life, it is to our benefit. Doctrine and Covenants 122

Thank you.

For me, I have found that during my darkest hours the support and love from family, friends and my wife has been of greatest sustaining influence. It is when my prayers have turned from my pleading for my cause to pleading for those that I love that trust me that has awakened my heart and spirit to find or wait on a “way” opened by my L-rd.

The Traveler

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It's not easy to endure some trials in life. Unmet expectations can be hard to bear!!

My wife and I have had our share of trials, for sure.

The only thing that has brought me comfort and perspective has been my relationship with Jesus Christ. As I have brought my troubles to Him, He has spoken peace to my soul, and gradually, He has helped me to see some reasons for some of my trials. I don't have all the answers, but I know the Lord loves me. This is a strange paradox, but growth only takes place during trials and testing. When I think about what periods of my life have brought the most learning and have strengthened my testimony the most -- it is almost always the difficult times, not the easy times.

Two excellent books on forgiveness and a godly perspective:

Amazon.com: The Peacegiver: How Christ Offers to Heal Hearts and Homes: James L. Ferrell: Books

and

Amazon.com: The Holy Secret: James L Ferrell: Books

These books are EXCELLENT. Eye-opening!

Tom

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This talk by Elder Holland has been helpful for me in the past (audio here).

Thanks. That is a beautiful speech. I sent it to my friend.

Thanks to all else who contribute. I love God so much, and though my life has been hard to say the least, I don't think God deserves all the negative feelings some have for him that seem to stem from a lack of understanding.

@tomk, traveler, and ben, thanks. thats the sort of thing im looking for :).

Edited by MikeUpton
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A friend of mine is going through a very difficult time. She has had to face many trials, and she is finding it to be very difficult. She is trying to find strength to go on. She has been struggling so hard to be a good latter day saint, to keep the commandments.

As we know, being a Latter-day Saint does not exempt us from the trials of life, and there is a powerful temptation to curse God when we go through these sore trials. I refuse to take the paths of many who speak with prideful derision, I think the answer lies in gently helping her to find forgiveness in her heart and see the eternal perspective.

Knowledge is light; understanding is what she needs at this time. She needs a little help to be able to find the divine attitude of forgiveness. I am a firm believer in Joseph Smith's quote “I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves."

It is a given, that i have asked her to consult with her spiritual leaders about this matter, however it would also be nice if there were also additional teachings, books, talks from general conference, etc., speeches, and any additional input others of you have of lessons you've learned in your own life, about not turning against God in anger in your own lives, but using trial as a catalyst for good. I'm interested in this not only for her, but for me, and for anyone else who may benefit from reading this thread.

For myself I've found a scripture in the Doctrine and Covenants very useful. Its taught me that an understanding is needed of the eternal nature of our existence, and the knowledge that regardless of what occurs to us in this life, it is to our benefit. Doctrine and Covenants 122

Thank you.

Which sins have she committed?

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It is very easy to blame God for our trials and afflictions. But he isn't the one who is to blame. He has given us our agency. We get to choose and sometimes we make bad choices. Sometimes we suffer because someone else exercises their agency. When we work through the grief and hurt that comes from adversity we find that it isn't God we need to forgive, rather it is ourselves who need to repent.

I appreciate the posts here. D&C 122 is wonderful. The Peacegiver is a wonderful book about forgivness. The Miracle of Forgiveness is another book that might be helpful. I have also found the Hymns helpful when I've been going through rough times.

I hope that your friend can soften her heart and let God in.

applepansy

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You know....I don't know why God does what he does. Sometimes frankly, it confuses me and even angers me. Angers me because I want him to tell me why. I want him to fill in the blanks and take the pain away or remove the mountain from my path. And....sometimes he doesn't.

I think all these things teach us how to trust. They stretch us as God teaches us to stand on our own and use the powerful blessings he placed inside us at our creation and the ones we developed in the pre-earth life.

Sometimes we need to get angry before we can trust. We need a little rant and maybe frustration before we learn that that doesn't work either. And then we learn to trust ourselves and our God to do what is best and to do it in His time and in His exalted way.

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I'm not sure (1) it's any of our business, or (2) it's even relevant.

Its not. Perhaps he was simply pointing out that the temptation to curse god is far stronger when there is sin involved. Its certainly not because of any sins committed that she has faced such sore trials.

To that I respond it is essential to keep the Holy Ghost in order to help maintain a divine attitude, however there can be powerful temptation to curse God for the trial, regardless if there is sin involved or not. Its helpful to talk about the nitty gritty of these things, and have the best tools in our belt that bring us towards an understanding of Heavenly Father.

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God cannot be blamed for the choices of man. Our personal choices come with consequences both good and bad and we have to be ready to accept and live with them ... we can't get away from them. The consequences of the choices of others that affect us are the trials we have in life that prove who we are and where we stand. They make us better and stronger ... if we choose to learn from them. Our lot is to endure to the end but as a sister in our ward said ... it is not enought to just endure ... we need to endure and do it well.

I have always admired Mary Feilding Smith for her faith and her our look on life ... she never considered what she endured a sacrifice or a trial but a blesning to help her and her family ... she raised a prophet.

Tell your friend that no matter what, she needs to remember who she is and who loves her ... nothing else matters. It is all just so many stepping stones to where she wnats to go. I like the scripture that says that the savior desended below all ... are we greater than He? We need to live for the day we meet Him and He can take us in his arms and tell us ... well done.

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In my own experience trial has been a powerful force for good. It has expanded my vision, strengthened my faith, brought me to the very depths of what I am. It has forced me to my knees in prayer, begging god for help.

I want to say that this has been a powerful tool for my faith. And as I tried so hard to comprehend the eternities, to really understand what all of that meant, and begin to exercise more faith in God, what little I could offer, God saw my efforts and he blessed me.

When I exercised my faith in God, and I began to trust him more, even though everything that had happened stood to reason against it, I began to see.

I saw no grandiose vision, no armies of angels, nothing that would account to anything constituting a "vision", but I know as well as I know that I live that God lives too. He is an incredibly kind and loving God, regardless of what it seems. He has been my dearest friend in my times of suffering, and has helped me to see something very important.

That thing is I suppose you could say a small understanding of what eternity means. Our trials I think, regardless of the extent of them, are all relative. We know that the Savior experienced the worst of all of us in the Garden of Gethsemane. And we know how dearly Heavenly Father loves him. We could have the worst existence one can imagine on earth, but always always there is much to be grateful for, and there always is an outpouring of blessings in one way or another for trial. These things ARE for our good. They are not forever, and as we begin to exercise our faith we can see that forever is a very very long time, and the experiences we face are a minor blip compared to the vastness of forever in front of us, a forever which can be a powerfully good forever if we will allow it to be.

Looking at myself, before and after the trial i had, my heart fills with gratitude to God, and I realize that I've overcome so many rough edges by passing through these experiences. That is a very beautiful gift. I will do all I can to help others in need and lift their trials and my own, (because I'm people too) but I will be grateful for what I have, even if sometimes what I have doesn't seem to be on the surface to be a positive thing.

I suppose for myself faith and trust has been essential. Humbling myself before God, casting aside what wisdom I think I have, and placing my trust in him. Here is a talk that I just remembered and I love:

Speeches Website

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A friend of mine is going through a very difficult time. She has had to face many trials, and she is finding it to be very difficult. She is trying to find strength to go on. She has been struggling so hard to be a good latter day saint, to keep the commandments.

As we know, being a Latter-day Saint does not exempt us from the trials of life, and there is a powerful temptation to curse God when we go through these sore trials. I refuse to take the paths of many who speak with prideful derision, I think the answer lies in gently helping her to find forgiveness in her heart and see the eternal perspective.

Knowledge is light; understanding is what she needs at this time. She needs a little help to be able to find the divine attitude of forgiveness. I am a firm believer in Joseph Smith's quote “I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves."

It is a given, that i have asked her to consult with her spiritual leaders about this matter, however it would also be nice if there were also additional teachings, books, talks from general conference, etc., speeches, and any additional input others of you have of lessons you've learned in your own life, about not turning against God in anger in your own lives, but using trial as a catalyst for good. I'm interested in this not only for her, but for me, and for anyone else who may benefit from reading this thread.

For myself I've found a scripture in the Doctrine and Covenants very useful. Its taught me that an understanding is needed of the eternal nature of our existence, and the knowledge that regardless of what occurs to us in this life, it is to our benefit. Doctrine and Covenants 122

Thank you.

Hello, Mike,

First of all, thank you so much for your kindness and love towards this person. It is refreshing to read~That you are concerned for her rather than judgmental means a lot to me.

I too, have had my share of trials, trouble, and afflictions~ throughout my life. Unfortunately, at this point I am just treading water spiritually. The times I was trying to draw the closest to God are the times it was the most difficult. While I'm not actively angry at HIm, I shy away now, for I'm not one to continue for the pain of it.

For me, I need time to step back and heal. Be okay. Let go of the expectations and my own judgements...Finding God have been the most painful experiences of my life. Certainly not what I expected in my search for him.

Even now, I am having the most difficult experience of a person showing back up in my life. Showing up in a very spiritual and profound way. It's hard, as we didn't end on good terms. All the pain involved in having to deal with this again, on a spiritual plane, no less, LOL......I'm sorry, I just laugh at the irony of the whole situation.

Thank you for your comments. I do know God lives, very strongly. How often He has told me that He loves me. Unfortunately, too, his love does not save me from the pain and sorrow that adversity brings into my life. I have yet to understand the need for this...I've tried so hard, so many times to come to Him, yet get so much pain by doing so. I'm tired and weary of doing it.

Your suggestions would be most appreciated.

Dove

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Its not. Perhaps he was simply pointing out that the temptation to curse god is far stronger when there is sin involved. Its certainly not because of any sins committed that she has faced such sore trials.

To that I respond it is essential to keep the Holy Ghost in order to help maintain a divine attitude, however there can be powerful temptation to curse God for the trial, regardless if there is sin involved or not. Its helpful to talk about the nitty gritty of these things, and have the best tools in our belt that bring us towards an understanding of Heavenly Father.

Point of this little exercise is not to demean here but learn something.

Yes! Sins do affect our outcome when not repented. It allows other festering thoughts and actions to dictate our lives.

Edited by Hemidakota
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In my own experience trial has been a powerful force for good. It has expanded my vision, strengthened my faith, brought me to the very depths of what I am. It has forced me to my knees in prayer, begging god for help.

I want to say that this has been a powerful tool for my faith. And as I tried so hard to comprehend the eternities, to really understand what all of that meant, and begin to exercise more faith in God, what little I could offer, God saw my efforts and he blessed me.

When I exercised my faith in God, and I began to trust him more, even though everything that had happened stood to reason against it, I began to see.

I saw no grandiose vision, no armies of angels, nothing that would account to anything constituting a "vision", but I know as well as I know that I live that God lives too. He is an incredibly kind and loving God, regardless of what it seems. He has been my dearest friend in my times of suffering, and has helped me to see something very important.

That thing is I suppose you could say a small understanding of what eternity means. Our trials I think, regardless of the extent of them, are all relative. We know that the Savior experienced the worst of all of us in the Garden of Gethsemane. And we know how dearly Heavenly Father loves him. We could have the worst existence one can imagine on earth, but always always there is much to be grateful for, and there always is an outpouring of blessings in one way or another for trial. These things ARE for our good. They are not forever, and as we begin to exercise our faith we can see that forever is a very very long time, and the experiences we face are a minor blip compared to the vastness of forever in front of us, a forever which can be a powerfully good forever if we will allow it to be.

Looking at myself, before and after the trial i had, my heart fills with gratitude to God, and I realize that I've overcome so many rough edges by passing through these experiences. That is a very beautiful gift. I will do all I can to help others in need and lift their trials and my own, (because I'm people too) but I will be grateful for what I have, even if sometimes what I have doesn't seem to be on the surface to be a positive thing.

I suppose for myself faith and trust has been essential. Humbling myself before God, casting aside what wisdom I think I have, and placing my trust in him. Here is a talk that I just remembered and I love:

Speeches Website

Let you know, we all have trials. No member is exempted from this. Some have it every year for life. Look at Joseph's own experiences he suffered through and the Lord responses to his questions in having these trials. If not, how can we be called 'Servants' or 'friends' of the Savior?

Excellent post Mike.

Edited by Hemidakota
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Guest missingsomething

Again.. with the human nature... but Mike, it is natural for us to need to blame God for problems because it is easier than to say if we had made better choices it would not be so hard now... and many believe that if God loved them, He would spare them. Just remind her, that because things are tough - it is not a punishment nor a vandetta (spelling?). But the hardest thing we have to do is to let go of the pain. We have trouble forgiving ourselves and many times, when we feel such hurt - we then feel guilty for "blaming god".

Here's something really important to understand... Christ didnt suffer everyone's sins/pains in one big WHOPPER where He couldnt tell who was feeling what. He experiences each sin and pain individually - so when it seems too much, it may help to remember the power of the atonement. Christ knows us in depth and understands exactly what we are going through. Even when we question "god".

Something that was told to me as a YW: Satan does not fight for those he already has. It is hard to spin this to someone and let them understand that heavenly father does not cause our pain.

And ONLY for you dear mike.. I looked up some scriptures that have helped me through the worse times.

1COR 10:13

13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Matthew 11:28-30

28 ¶ Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you crest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

and

D&C 103: 36

36 All victory and glory is brought to pass unto you through your diligence, faithfulness, and prayers of faith.

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@hemi, you are correct that the festering of an open wound will not heal when we will not come unto Christ and allow it to be healed. I would say humbling ourselves to do God's will would be the number one way to be healed from any anger and find forgiveness, because then it makes us worthy of such a blessing.

I'd use an experience from my own life to clarify on your point. When i was 15 or so I had fairly long hair. I was going through a less active period in my life at the time. I showed up at church randomly one day out of the blue, and my Bishop called me into his office and asked me to cut my hair. So, I did. I remained inactive, but now had a haircut.

Later, on thinking about it I was consumed with teenage fury that also had much of its roots in less activity :D. I decided I'd never cut my hair again. Here's the result.

MikeUpton’s Gallery » me at 18 cropped from my driver?s license » LDS Mormon Network

Visual demonstration of a rebellious angry attitude caused by sin :).

Later when I got active, I experienced the healing power of Christ and bitterness was lifted from my heart, I lived in another place and had another Bishop. He asked me to be the priest quorom leader (i always forget the name of that calling, but i guess its like a Hogwarts Prefect :D) but that he would also like me to cut my hair so that I would set a good example for the rest of the quorom.

My heart was softened towards the Lord at that point, and knowing of the goodness of God through the atonement, I realized that if Christ had done all he did for me, that it was the least I could do to cut my hair. So i did :).

@Dove - I'm reminded of a lady on my mission we were visiting, who was less active. She was going through a struggle and had been beginning to turn away from the Church. I felt then that there were spirits present that had a great deal of influence over her. I told her about this, and felt inspired to ask her to pray to be free of Satan's power. It seemed to work. She did so, and began showing up at church again with a new attitude. She began referring her nonmember friends to the missionaries. I dont understand the way the Lord works. I know that I learned from that experience the importance of following the counsel of the Holy Ghost. I would highly recommend that if the Lord gives you a prompting, that you act on it, even if it seems simple.

Another suggestion is to ask God to bless you with the atonement, to heal you from the hurts in your life.

For my own experience, I feel that of myself I am not all that strong. But it is when I have humbled myself before God and cast away my own wisdom and strength, that he blessed me with the power and strength I needed to overcome my trials. I prayed much for this particular thing.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - In the Strength of the Lord

by Elder Bednar

LDS.org - Liahona Article - In the Strength of the Lord

By Elder Eyering

Edited by MikeUpton
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Funny you should post this, I had an Institute class on this very topic!

I don't believe I can add much to what's already been said; but just restate God give's us weaknesses and trials so that we can grow and become who he wants us to be.

My institute teacher taught us an analogy that I love:

We are like a precious metal. The refiner takes us and puts us under intense heat and pressure to shape us and craft us into what we need to be. Do you know how the refiner knows that the metal is done? He can see his reflection in it.

I thought that was a great analogy and message of hope - when we are suffering we need to know that these things are temporary, and even though it is hard to understand, our trials are for our growth and development.

Good luck with your friend.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Point of this little exercise is not to demean here but learn something.

Yes! Sins do affect our outcome when not repented. It allows other festering thoughts and actions to dictate our lives.

My friend does not discuss her sins with me, and I do not ask her to. So I could not rightly say here what sins she has and has not committed. She's simply a friend, not a marraige interviewee.

I appreciate your that you are against sin, as am I, and as I've said I do believe that abstaining from sin is a major part of keeping a good attitude towards god through trial. However I do not feel comfortable with posting this stuff, I use my real name here. I am under no illusion that this would be anonymous. I happen to know a great deal of LDS, and

were I to post the sins of friends on this board it would be a very trivial for many of my friends to find who the person was. BTW, many of you are less anonymous than you think you are. Just search google on a given user name, you can often find a lot of information.

In this light, I do not feel the Lord would ask me to publicly display the sins of my friends on a message board on the internet in order to set an example of them. I think that would be for me, a gross betrayal of trust.

The purpose of this thread is to gather any and all information on keeping a forgiving heart towards God, and abstaining from sin is a very legitimate point. However, I as stated, I do not know the sins of my friend, and I'd like to keep it there. I have spoken to her about the importance of abstaining from sin in order to keep a divine attitude, and she is well aware of this fact. She tells me generally of her struggles and I help her with that, but I am not her bishop, and I am not a therapist. Furthermore, I again assert that due to the public nature of this board, it is none of anyone's business.

Edited by MikeUpton
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Or what sins has someone committed that directly affected her? After all, Job had a heck of a time and yet he did nothing to deserve it.

That could also very well be the case. Some people in times of extreme abuse do not know what to think. Their hatred and distrust of God stems from their lack of understanding and the psychological effects of abuse, and to say they were simply sinners would be asinine. We're all sinners, but our spirits need wisdom and light to give us direction towards repentance. Again, repentance from sin IS a major component of forgiving God. I mean to say that it is not the only one.

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