1 Nephi Ch 2

[AFDaw]

Again, this was somewhat started in the other thread, but figured it also needed a "home" of it's own.

What I personally liked about this chapter was verse 16

"And it came to pass that I, Nephi, being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature, and also having great desires to know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto the Lord; and behold he did visit me, and did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father; wherefore, I did not rebel against him like unto my brothers."

My intrepretation is that Nephi didn't believe his father's words merely because he was his father. Instead, he sought for comfirmation from God on whether or not what his father was saying was true.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by AFDaw@Feb 4 2004, 12:15 AM

What I personally liked about this chapter was verse 16

"And it came to pass that I, Nephi, being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature, and also having great desires to know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto the Lord; and behold he did visit me, and did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father; wherefore, I did not rebel against him like unto my brothers."

My intrepretation is that Nephi didn't believe his father's words merely because he was his father. Instead, he sought for comfirmation from God on whether or not what his father was saying was true.

I re-read that verse and I agree with you. I think there is something significant being conveyed here.

Nephi had a great desire to know the truth and was humble enough to "cry unto the Lord" for that truth, so much so he had an angelic visitation. In Moroni 10:4 it says, "if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent..." There seems, if taken strictly literally, to be an inconsistency when Nephi writes that his heart was softened when the visitation took place instead of before.

I don't think it's an inconsistency though. Any thoughts?

[Jenda]

Maybe because Nephi, prior to then, was obedient for the sake of being obedient, as the law dictates. It was only after he cried to the Lord and the Lord answered him that his heart softened and he became a believer.

The letter of the law thing compared to the spirit of the law thing.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by Jenda@Feb 5 2004, 07:20 AM

Maybe because Nephi, prior to then, was obedient for the sake of being obedient, as the law dictates. It was only after he cried to the Lord and the Lord answered him that his heart softened and he became a believer.

The letter of the law thing compared to the spirit of the law thing.

That is what I am getting at, his heart being softened AFTER. But, if his heart was not soft, why would he have cried to the Lord? If his heart was hard it seems he would not have cried unto the Lord and had a visitation. It seems, at least in the BoM, visitations happen to the real wicked and the humble.

Maybe he saw the futility in trying to be obedient and that humbled him to a point where he would seek the Lord with real intent.

It seems as if what happened AFTER or during the visitation was a deeper learning, or affected a deeper part of Nephi.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Behunin+Feb 4 2004, 10:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Behunin @ Feb 4 2004, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--AFDaw@Feb 4 2004, 12:15 AM

What I personally liked about this chapter was verse 16

"And it came to pass that I, Nephi, being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature, and also having great desires to know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto the Lord; and behold he did visit me, and did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father; wherefore, I did not rebel against him like unto my brothers."

My intrepretation is that Nephi didn't believe his father's words merely because he was his father.  Instead, he sought for comfirmation from God on whether or not what his father was saying was true.

I re-read that verse and I agree with you. I think there is something significant being conveyed here.

Nephi had a great desire to know the truth and was humble enough to "cry unto the Lord" for that truth, so much so he had an angelic visitation. In Moroni 10:4 it says, "if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent..." There seems, if taken strictly literally, to be an inconsistency when Nephi writes that his heart was softened when the visitation took place instead of before.

I don't think it's an inconsistency though. Any thoughts?

Interesting insight Behunin. I wonder if desire and softened heart are two different things...both being able to open the door of visitation or answers.

The Lord can, both, soften our hearts, and give us desires. But we can also soften our hearts through our desires to know and please God. Of course ....I can get really confusing here and go into the many roads which can bring us to those states of being. :) but thankfully I won't. :)

[Guest Starsky]

It seems as if what happened AFTER or during the visitation was a deeper learning, or affected a deeper part of Nephi.

Maybe it is because before, though he had the desire, he didn't have the Spirit.

[serapha]

Questions... or maybe answers?

2 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded my father, even in a dream, that he should take his family and depart into the wilderness.

Now, Lehi is the "only" dreamer in the book of mormon, and after his time, there was no more record of God speaking to man by vision/dreams. The present-day revelation to the living prophet, is that ever cited to be by dreams? Just curious...

5 And he came down by the borders near the shore of the Red Sea; and he traveled in the wilderness in the borders which are nearer the Red Sea; and he did travel in the wilderness with his family, which consisted of my mother, Sariah, and my elder brothers, who were Laman, Lemuel, and Sam.

Nibley writes that in the ancient languages of Egyptian, arabic, and Hebrew, that the Hebrew word for "borders" is cognated into the other languages.--border meaning mountains. "Wilderness" though has two context in the Bible, though the beloved KJV and others have translated "wilderness" to always be the desolate desert area.

7 And it came to pass that he built an altar of stones, and made an offering unto the Lord, and gave thanks unto the Lord our God.

Now, we are dealing with a group of people who adhered to the mosaic law to the letter, and this family had grown through several generations in the Jerusalem area, to be an active part of the community. As a caranveer, Lehi, would have needed the acceptance and apperoval of the local people to have prospered in Judah.

As a part of the moasic law, Judah had centralized worship, and the building of an individual atlar should have been a foreign concept to Lehi.

Right?

gave thanks unto the Lord our God

Another curious question... Who is this "Lour our God" for whom the sacrifice is made? Elohim or Jehovah?

9 And when my father saw that the waters of the river emptied into the fountain of the Red Sea, he spake unto Laman, saying: O that thou mightest be like unto this river, continually running into the fountain of all righteousness!

10 And he also spake unto Lemuel: O that thou mightest be like unto this valley, firm and steadfast, and immovable in keeping the commandments of the Lord!

Is there a significance to these statements? such as a "blessing" to the older children, or as an admonishment to their character?

14 And it came to pass that my father did speak unto them in the valley of Lemuel, with power, being filled with the Spirit, until their frames did shake before him. And he did confound them, that they durst not utter against him; wherefore, they did as he commanded them.

If "he" is Lehi, could some explain "confound" to me?

20 And inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments, ye shall prosper, and shall be led to a land of promise; yea, even a land which I have prepared for you; yea, a land which is choice above all other lands.

21 And inasmuch as thy brethren shall rebel against thee, they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord.

And (curious again) where would these prophecies be fulfillled?

Hopefully, someone could add clarity to my thoughts...

~serapha~

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by serapha@Mar 28 2004, 09:06 PM

Questions... or maybe answers?

2 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded my father, even in a dream, that he should take his family and depart into the wilderness.

Now, Lehi is the "only" dreamer in the book of mormon, and after his time, there was no more record of God speaking to man by vision/dreams. The present-day revelation to the living prophet, is that ever cited to be by dreams? Just curious...

Why do you say Lehi is the "only" dreamer? Omer was warned in a dream. (Ether 9:3)

As to the Prophet, I have no idea. I do think the Lord can talk to different people in different ways. While a dream is effective with some, it wouldn't be with others.

7 And it came to pass that he built an altar of stones, and made an offering unto the Lord, and gave thanks unto the Lord our God.

Now, we are dealing with a group of people who adhered to the mosaic law to the letter, and this family had grown through several generations in the Jerusalem area, to be an active part of the community. As a caranveer, Lehi, would have needed the acceptance and apperoval of the local people to have prospered in Judah.

As a part of the moasic law, Judah had centralized worship, and the building of an individual atlar should have been a foreign concept to Lehi.

Right?

I don't think that an individual altar was a "foreign concept" to Lehi at all. I do know that it was contrary to custom among the Jews at the time. It was generally prohibited to offer sacrifice anywhere except the Temple in order to avoid problems with idolatrous worship. However, Lehi has been sent off from Jerusalem by the Lord. I'm sure he felt the sacrifice in his own altar was warranted and wouldn't be considered by outsiders, nor the Lord, as idolatrous worship.

9 And when my father saw that the waters of the river emptied into the fountain of the Red Sea, he spake unto Laman, saying: O that thou mightest be like unto this river, continually running into the fountain of all righteousness!

10 And he also spake unto Lemuel: O that thou mightest be like unto this valley, firm and steadfast, and immovable in keeping the commandments of the Lord!

Is there a significance to these statements? such as a "blessing" to the older children, or as an admonishment to their character?

Laman and Lemuel were not religious and weren't happy about leaving and I think Lehi is trying to get them to become more obediant and so he compares them to nature to sort of drive his point home.

14 And it came to pass that my father did speak unto them in the valley of Lemuel, with power, being filled with the Spirit, until their frames did shake before him. And he did confound them, that they durst not utter against him; wherefore, they did as he commanded them.

If "he" is Lehi, could some explain "confound" to me?

"he" does refer to Lehi and confound means to rebuke. They were constantly complaining and so Lehi was moved by the spirit to rebuke them to get them to quit murmuring against their father.

20 And inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments, ye shall prosper, and shall be led to a land of promise; yea, even a land which I have prepared for you; yea, a land which is choice above all other lands.

21 And inasmuch as thy brethren shall rebel against thee, they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord.

And (curious again) where would these prophecies be fulfillled?

What do you mean where?