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Hello folks, as a long time traditional Christian and short time LDS investigater, I was wondering what the LDS church finds wrong with traditional Christian churches. ( I'm have my own humble opinions but as an investigater I'm not sure I'm right) Thank you all for your time.

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Hello folks, as a long time traditional Christian and short time LDS investigater, I was wondering what the LDS church finds wrong with traditional Christian churches. ( I'm have my own humble opinions but as an investigater I'm not sure I'm right) Thank you all for your time.

Have you read the Joseph Smith History in the Pearl of Great Price.

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The below is from this resource: LDS.org - Family Table of Contents - True to the Faith

“Apostasy,” True to the Faith, (2004),13–14

When individuals or groups of people turn away from the principles of the gospel, they are in a state of apostasy.

Periods of general apostasy have occurred throughout the history of the world. After times of righteousness, people have often turned to wickedness. One example is the Great Apostasy, which occurred after the Savior established His Church. After the deaths of the Savior and His Apostles, men corrupted the principles of the gospel and made unauthorized changes in Church organization and priesthood ordinances. Because of this widespread wickedness, the Lord withdrew the authority of the priesthood from the earth.

During the Great Apostasy, people were without divine direction from living prophets. Many churches were established, but they did not have priesthood power to lead people to the true knowledge of God the Father and Jesus Christ. Parts of the holy scriptures were corrupted or lost, and no one had the authority to confer the gift of the Holy Ghost or perform other priesthood ordinances. This apostasy lasted until Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820 and initiated the restoration of the fulness of the gospel.

We now live in a time when the gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored. But unlike the Church in times past, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will not be overcome by general apostasy. The scriptures teach that the Church will never again be destroyed (see D&C 138:44; see also Daniel 2:44).

Although there will not be another general apostasy from the truth, we must each guard against personal apostasy. You can safeguard yourself against personal apostasy by keeping your covenants, obeying the commandments, following Church leaders, partaking of the sacrament, and constantly strengthening your testimony through daily scripture study, prayer, and service.

Additional references: Isaiah 24:5; Amos 8:11–12; Matthew 24:4–14; Acts 20:28–30; 2 Timothy 3:1–5, 14–15; 4:3–4; 1 Nephi 13:24–29; Mormon 1:13–14; D&C 1:15–17; Joseph Smith—History 1:17–19

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No, sorry, I have not.

You can find it here.

There are lots of doctrines that the LDS teach were "lost" by mainstream Christianity, but for me (as a Mormon) it all boils down to other churches'

a) lacking the proper priesthood authority,

b) being led by an imperfect degree of revelation from God, and

c) not having the fulness of the Holy Ghost and therefore lacking the tools necessary bring members to their full spiritual potential.

(EDIT: The tone of this post may seem unduly offensive. If so, please forgive me; I'd go over it and soften the tone but I really have to be somewhere right now. :) )

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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The responses so far have focused on doctrine and deeper inner spiritual matters. The most obvious, outward difference is that LDS bishops don't get to wear the cool, fashionable clergy collars that the rest of us do. :-)

I wanted the laugh button....thanks will have to do....hey PC....if I am called again to serve as a Bishop perhaps I could get you to send me one....otherwise I coould always wear my white shirt backwards....:D
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The responses so far have focused on doctrine and deeper inner spiritual matters. The most obvious, outward difference is that LDS bishops don't get to wear the cool, fashionable clergy collars that the rest of us do. :-)

Hahahaha!!! Where is the laugh button when you need it? They keep taking it out. :lol::lol:

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I can google the history...but the collars really are not used in my fellowship. Many people think they are "too Catholic." However, African-American pentecostal clergy where them, as do some of the historic protestant mainline groups (Lutheran, Episcopalean, etc.). I use it because our jail has a high turnover amongst inmates, and there's no confusing me with a counselor, unit manager, or (gasp!) warden. :-)

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Hello folks, as a long time traditional Christian and short time LDS investigater, I was wondering what the LDS church finds wrong with traditional Christian churches. ( I'm have my own humble opinions but as an investigater I'm not sure I'm right) Thank you all for your time.

Lately, there are two churches in the world, one that GOD rules over and the other, man rules over. Now, it is up to you to find the one the GOD has raised up and restored HIS truths again to the world. ;)

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Lately, there are two churches in the world, one that GOD rules over and the other, man rules over. Now, it is up to you to find the one the GOD has raised up and restored HIS truths again to the world. ;)

International Standard Version (©2008)

I tell you that you are Peter, and it is on this rock that I will build my congregation, and the powers of hell will not conquer it.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

You are Peter, and I can guarantee that on this rock I will build my church. And the gates of hell will not overpower it.

King James Bible

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

American King James Version

And I say also to you, That you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

American Standard Version

And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Bible in Basic English

And I say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock will my church be based, and the doors of hell will not overcome it.

Douay-Rheims Bible

And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Darby Bible Translation

And I also, I say unto thee that thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and hades' gates shall not prevail against it.

English Revised Version

And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Webster's Bible Translation

And I say also to thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church: and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Weymouth New Testament

And I declare to you that you are Peter, and that upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the might of Hades shall not triumph over it.

World English Bible

I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Young's Literal Translation

'And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

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For me, there is not a lot wrong with most Christian churches. They have a lot of truth, and lead many humble people toward a rich relationship with God through Christ.

That said, we believe that through living prophets, even more knowledge of God and richer blessings can be available to us. Many ancient truths of God have been misplaced or lost over the centuries, due to a variety of reasons. Through modern prophets, we offer many of the restored truths to mankind, where they can enrich their testimonies of Christ even more.

Modern revelation, priesthood authority, the blessings of the temple, and many other gifts offered by Christ through the LDS Church are awaiting those who are willing to do as Paul encouraged: "prove all things."

Yes, there was an apostasy of many truths. Even more importantly, though, God is reaching out to all of us, and will lead us as far as we are willing to have Him lead us.

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For me, there is not a lot wrong with most Christian churches. They have a lot of truth, and lead many humble people toward a rich relationship with God through Christ.

That said, we believe that through living prophets, even more knowledge of God and richer blessings can be available to us. Many ancient truths of God have been misplaced or lost over the centuries, due to a variety of reasons. Through modern prophets, we offer many of the restored truths to mankind, where they can enrich their testimonies of Christ even more.

Modern revelation, priesthood authority, the blessings of the temple, and many other gifts offered by Christ through the LDS Church are awaiting those who are willing to do as Paul encouraged: "prove all things."

Yes, there was an apostasy of many truths. Even more importantly, though, God is reaching out to all of us, and will lead us as far as we are willing to have Him lead us.

I believe the temple was destroyed in 70 AD and that it will be rebuilt by the Jews and desecrated by the image of the Anti-Christ being placed in the holy place. I wouls suggest that I as a Christian understand what needs to be known of CHRIST to be saved and adopted as one of HIS special children. The enrichments I seek are treasures in heaven and not of this world where moth and rust corrupt.

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Amos 2-3 tells of the problems that occur when we do not accept living prophets. The people ask the prophets not to prophecy, so that they do not have to hear the doomsayings of the prophets. But Amos 3:7 tells us that God ONLY reveals his secrets through the prophets.

While we can glean many good truths from the writings of dead prophets, those dead prophets cannot answer many issues that occur today. Knowing about the Flood or the Mosaic Law can do little for us today concerning our current national struggles, terrorism, or whether homsexuals should be able to marry or not.

We shall see that near the end times, nations will fall apart. Nebuchadnezzar's dream foresaw the kingdom of God being cut out of a mountain without hands, BEFORE the 2nd Coming and Millennium, and that it would roll forth crushing nations before it.

We shall see nations, including possibly the USA collapse. And those who remain will have to choose between becoming followers of the Beast and Babylon, or of Zion. The key founders of Zion will be the Latter-day Saints, because there is no other religion that is organized enough, nor prepared enough, to lift people up after the big crash comes.

Already in major disasters, the LDS Church is looked at by the Red Cross, national guard and military, and other big organizations, as key to providing relief and organization to these disasters.

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Amos 2-3 tells of the problems that occur when we do not accept living prophets. The people ask the prophets not to prophecy, so that they do not have to hear the doomsayings of the prophets. But Amos 3:7 tells us that God ONLY reveals his secrets through the prophets.

While we can glean many good truths from the writings of dead prophets, those dead prophets cannot answer many issues that occur today. Knowing about the Flood or the Mosaic Law can do little for us today concerning our current national struggles, terrorism, or whether homsexuals should be able to marry or not.

We shall see that near the end times, nations will fall apart. Nebuchadnezzar's dream foresaw the kingdom of God being cut out of a mountain without hands, BEFORE the 2nd Coming and Millennium, and that it would roll forth crushing nations before it.

We shall see nations, including possibly the USA collapse. And those who remain will have to choose between becoming followers of the Beast and Babylon, or of Zion. The key founders of Zion will be the Latter-day Saints, because there is no other religion that is organized enough, nor prepared enough, to lift people up after the big crash comes.

Already in major disasters, the LDS Church is looked at by the Red Cross, national guard and military, and other big organizations, as key to providing relief and organization to these disasters.

I hold this to be true. I simply do not see historically, any prophet being placed to rule over a church. None of the Old Testament prophets ruled over the temple. They were set apart and not incumbered by ministry. I also realize that in Revelation 10 there is mention of two witnesses who will prophesy for 1,260 days before they are killed ---- 3 1/2 days later they will rise from the dead.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

Certainly, the Almighty LORD doesn't do anything unless he [first] reveals his secret to his servants the prophets.

King James Bible

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

American King James Version

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets.

American Standard Version

Surely the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, except he reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Bible in Basic English

Certainly the Lord will do nothing without making clear his secret to his servants, the prophets.

Douay-Rheims Bible

For the Lord God doth nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets.

Darby Bible Translation

But the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

English Revised Version

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Webster's Bible Translation

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret to his servants the prophets.

World English Bible

Surely the Lord Yahweh will do nothing, unless he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets.

Young's Literal Translation

For the Lord Jehovah doth nothing, Except He hath revealed His counsel unto His servants the prophets.

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I hold this to be true. I simply do not see historically, any prophet being placed to rule over a church. None of the Old Testament prophets ruled over the temple. They were set apart and not incumbered by ministry. I also realize that in Revelation 10 there is mention of two witnesses who will prophesy for 1,260 days before they are killed ---- 3 1/2 days later they will rise from the dead.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

Certainly, the Almighty LORD doesn't do anything unless he [first] reveals his secret to his servants the prophets.

King James Bible

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

American King James Version

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets.

American Standard Version

Surely the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, except he reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Bible in Basic English

Certainly the Lord will do nothing without making clear his secret to his servants, the prophets.

Douay-Rheims Bible

For the Lord God doth nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets.

Darby Bible Translation

But the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

English Revised Version

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Webster's Bible Translation

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret to his servants the prophets.

World English Bible

Surely the Lord Yahweh will do nothing, unless he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets.

Young's Literal Translation

For the Lord Jehovah doth nothing, Except He hath revealed His counsel unto His servants the prophets.

First- start citing which verses you're quoting multiple version of. Your regular tactic of not citing any sources is highly irritable, although here it's easy enough to tell which scripture you're referencing, as it was mentioned in your quoted post. Second, the prophets are only earthly stewards over Christ's church until He comes again. In reality, Christ is still the head of the Church through revelation- just as He has always been, since the beginning of the world. Edited by Maxel
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First- start citing which verses you're quoting multiple version of. Your regular tactic of not citing any sources is highly irritable, although here it's easy enough to tell which scripture you're referencing, as it was mentioned in your quoted post. Second, the prophets are only earthly stewards over Christ's church until He comes again. In reality, Christ is still the head of the Church through revelation- just as He has always been, since the beginning of the world.

You must have missed raneunpton remarks ----- Amos 3:7

You really didn't provide a reason why a prophet needs to control the church presently and yet prophets didn't control the temple prior to JESUS...

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None of the Old Testament prophets ruled over the temple. They were set apart and not incumbered by ministry.

The entire temple liturgy was received by the hand of Moses. The fact that a Urim and Thummim was part of the priestly regalia would seem to demonstrate that the chief priest was supposed to be a seer (which, in LDS parlance, is one function of a prophet). But a Urim and Thummim only function according to the righteousness of the user.

Most (but, I'll grant you, probably not all) of the recorded prophets who ministered to the Kingdom of Judah ministered at periods when the leadership of the temple was, to a greater or lesser degree, in apostasy.

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You must have missed raneunpton remarks ----- Amos 3:7

You really didn't provide a reason why a prophet needs to control the church presently and yet prophets didn't control the temple prior to JESUS...

I'm somewhat worried by this remark, considering that prior to this you have been a remarkable biblical scholar. I can give several examples that suggest that Prophets were the leaders of the church(Specifically: Israel as the church).

Samuel anointed Saul. If the people recognized that the crowning of a King took place at the behest of the Prophet, it's safe to say he had considerable sway. So much sway, in fact, that even David didn't dare harm Saul even with Saul's attempts on David's life.

Moses led the people through the deserts. They actively followed him - They grumbled about it, as the people are wont to do, but nobody said "Why should a Prophet guide us?"

All of Humanity were led by the Prophet Noah at one point(Admittedly, there were less than a dozen left, but he was the head).

Abraham was the father of Nations, a patriarch who led all the people during his time there.

Frankly, barring the minor prophets like Habakkuk, all the major prophets led God's church when they were around. All of them.

The only logical argument would be that God no longer needs prophets. I disagree with it, but I can at least see the biblical argument. To state that the Prophets didn't lead the church is disingenuous, which seemed to be what you were saying when you mentioned the Temple with the prophets.

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The entire temple liturgy was received by the hand of Moses. The fact that a Urim and Thummim was part of the priestly regalia would seem to demonstrate that the chief priest was supposed to be a seer (which, in LDS parlance, is one function of a prophet). But a Urim and Thummim only function according to the righteousness of the user.

Most (but, I'll grant you, probably not all) of the recorded prophets who ministered to the Kingdom of Judah ministered at periods when the leadership of the temple was, to a greater or lesser degree, in apostasy.

Thank you Just_A_Guy

Most Christians are focused on the NT and tend to have at times, a poor chronology and limited understanding of the Temple rites and the history of the Temple cult in Israel.

The temple functioned uninterruptedly for less than 100 years since David. Isaiah (24:5) mourns that the people had corrupted the temple rites and the priest no longer officiate in righteousness. After 721 BC the priestly class is gone together with the 10 northern tribes. The few left tried their best to hold the fort but it was impossible. In 587 the Babylonians carry the rest of Israel and by the time they return and rebuild the temple is no longer in the hands of the sons of Levy but Ezra's. The rabbinical schools begin, the priests are workers bees in the Temple, the High Priest office becomes a political appointment (lots of money comes into the temple as offerings) and the real power within the religious class moves away from the temple and onto the streets (the synagogues) with the Pharisees and the Saducees (related to Levites).

The prophets operated outside of the Temple and the priestly families due to the corruption that had crept into it. Amos, Isaiah, Jeremiah all confronted the "priests" for corruption and unrighteousness. Christ did not take over the temple. It was precisely the political influence of the high priest and the Pharisees and Sadducees that led to the crucifixion. By AD 33 the temple had become a ritual for outward performance but the center of the worship and religious observance for the Jews was the Torah and not the temple.

But revelation about how the temple should be built and the ordinance to be performed thereof came to a prophet (Ezekiel). And to this day, as Israel continues to plan to rebuild the temple when Messiah comes, they are using that blueprint. In this dispensation Joseph was the seer to whom the Lord revealed His plan for the Holy Place.

Edited by Islander
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I hold this to be true. I simply do not see historically, any prophet being placed to rule over a church. None of the Old Testament prophets ruled over the temple. They were set apart and not incumbered by ministry. I also realize that in Revelation 10 there is mention of two witnesses who will prophesy for 1,260 days before they are killed ---- 3 1/2 days later they will rise from the dead.

Actually, Moses was in charge of the Tabernacle, a mobile temple. He also worked within Mt Sinai, which was a natural temple of God.

The temples after Moses were geared towards the Aaronic Priesthood, and so did not require a prophet/priest after the order of Melchizedek to run it (see Hebrews 5-7).

When David required counsel, he did not go to the priests of Aaron, but received counsel from Samuel and Nathan the prophets. In the Bible, the church and the nation were the same thing. The prophets ruled the spiritual needs of the people. While the priests of Aaron offered sacrifice in the temple, it was Isaiah, Jeremiah, and other prophets that were attempting to lead the people. Isaiah was King Hezekiah's chief advisor, while Jeremiah advised King Josiah. I could go on with examples of prophets leading the people and the Church, but it soon becomes redundant.

As for the two witnesses, Revelation calls them prophets with a prophecy to perform. BTW, it isn't Revelation 10, but chapter 11 that speaks about the prophets:

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

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Actually, Moses was in charge of the Tabernacle, a mobile temple. He also worked within Mt Sinai, which was a natural temple of God.

The temples after Moses were geared towards the Aaronic Priesthood, and so did not require a prophet/priest after the order of Melchizedek to run it (see Hebrews 5-7).

When David required counsel, he did not go to the priests of Aaron, but received counsel from Samuel and Nathan the prophets. In the Bible, the church and the nation were the same thing. The prophets ruled the spiritual needs of the people. While the priests of Aaron offered sacrifice in the temple, it was Isaiah, Jeremiah, and other prophets that were attempting to lead the people. Isaiah was King Hezekiah's chief advisor, while Jeremiah advised King Josiah. I could go on with examples of prophets leading the people and the Church, but it soon becomes redundant.

As for the two witnesses, Revelation calls them prophets with a prophecy to perform. BTW, it isn't Revelation 10, but chapter 11 that speaks about the prophets:

Actually, I thought Aaron his brother was placed in charge of the tabernacle.

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