differences

[john doe]

Conversations are two-way.

You may wish to consider that point as you review the posts above.

Apparently you are having a hard time communicating with those that wish to have a conversation. If no one understands what you're talking about and you don't explain yourself, then your side of the two-way conversation is dead on arrival. You may wish to consider that as you review your posting here.

[pam]

Even a foolish man is counted wise if he remains silent...

Ahhh so much I could say here.

[BenRaines]

While a woman can open here mouth and remove all doubt :)

Ben Raines

[pam]

Oh now that's helping the situation.

[darrel]

Is it just me that feels like someone is trolling this forum.

[pam]

Nope not just you darrel.

[rameumptom]

Nipper,

The key is that the Lord will attend a prayer meeting of two people. But God's fullness requires so much more.

Aaron, who was high priest, and Miriam complained that Moses was hogging the power and limelight, thinking they were equal to him. Here we had two good people that were coming together for God. But God disagreed with them, as He had something higher, better, and more important than two gathering together. It was having a prophet over the congregation. Miriam was punished with leprosy for a week (seems Aaron was still needed to sacrifice in the Tabernacle, and couldn't do it if he were unclean).

Time and again, good people stood up against Moses and other prophets, and God cast them down for doing so.

IOW, good intentions about Christ and God are nice, but they cannot compete for God's attention, when it comes to His pattern of doing all things through prophets and apostles. Jesus told his apostles, "you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you...." On another occasion, Jesus warned those that said, "Lord, Lord, have we not done many miracles in your name, and in your name cast out devils?" At that time, the Lord will tell them that he does not know them, because they have not done His will.

What is His will? To obey the living prophets and apostles. That is the pattern. When they followed Moses, Samuel, Isaiah, Elijah, Jeremiah, et al, they were blessed. When they disobeyed, the Lord punished the people, regardless of whether they called on His name or not. Paul insisted that the foundation of the Church are the apostles and prophets, with Christ being "the chief cornerstone" (Ephesians 2). He explained that they are needed, otherwise people would be tossed about by every "wind of doctrine" (Ephesians 4:11-14).

Can you pray to God and feel His presence? Sure. But to have God's fullness, you have to follow the pattern set up by God in the scriptures. God communicates to mankind primarily through living prophets and apostles. To ignore the living prophets is like embracing the Old Testament, and rejecting the New Testament.

[Maxel]

Rameumpton-

Well said. I applaud you, sir.

LittleNipper-

Here's a cat for you.

[LittleNipper]

Nipper,

The key is that the Lord will attend a prayer meeting of two people. But God's fullness requires so much more.

Aaron, who was high priest, and Miriam complained that Moses was hogging the power and limelight, thinking they were equal to him. Here we had two good people that were coming together for God. But God disagreed with them, as He had something higher, better, and more important than two gathering together. It was having a prophet over the congregation. Miriam was punished with leprosy for a week (seems Aaron was still needed to sacrifice in the Tabernacle, and couldn't do it if he were unclean).

Time and again, good people stood up against Moses and other prophets, and God cast them down for doing so.

IOW, good intentions about Christ and God are nice, but they cannot compete for God's attention, when it comes to His pattern of doing all things through prophets and apostles. Jesus told his apostles, "you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you...." On another occasion, Jesus warned those that said, "Lord, Lord, have we not done many miracles in your name, and in your name cast out devils?" At that time, the Lord will tell them that he does not know them, because they have not done His will.

What is His will? To obey the living prophets and apostles. That is the pattern. When they followed Moses, Samuel, Isaiah, Elijah, Jeremiah, et al, they were blessed. When they disobeyed, the Lord punished the people, regardless of whether they called on His name or not. Paul insisted that the foundation of the Church are the apostles and prophets, with Christ being "the chief cornerstone" (Ephesians 2). He explained that they are needed, otherwise people would be tossed about by every "wind of doctrine" (Ephesians 4:11-14).

Can you pray to God and feel His presence? Sure. But to have God's fullness, you have to follow the pattern set up by God in the scriptures. God communicates to mankind primarily through living prophets and apostles. To ignore the living prophets is like embracing the Old Testament, and rejecting the New Testament.

I would suggest you at least read I Corinthians 13:8 & I Corinthians 14:37. You may also wish to consider that in Matthew 7:22, it isn't what the rejected say but what they do not say that get them rejected.

I would suggest that to most true Christians, what is missing is rather obvious and what those being rejected say speaks volumns to their attitude concerning (hint, hint) what THEY have done. That I feel strongly is what JESUS was/is driving at in this verse. What JESUS says previously should get one ready for the obvious... Unless their concerns are with WORKS ---- (hint, hint).

[rameumptom]

Nipper,

You are still missing the point of following prophets. You are "hint, hint"ing around issues, as if just posting a few verses mean anything. That is not a discussion. You'll note that I posted scripture AND explained it clearly for all to understand. Hinting about just means that you either are unable or unwilling to actually defend your belief.

How do you tell the difference between a "true" Christian and all the other Christians? Are you a "true" Christian? How would you know? How are you able to discern a true one from a false one?

Once again, it is a matter of patterns. God has established a pattern. True followers of Christ follow the apostles and prophets He has called. Paul exclaimed this when he established that the foundation of Christ's "true" Church consists of prophets and apostles. Does your Church have living prophets and apostles as the foundation?

The problem always resides in individuals exclaiming that their view of the scriptures is correct. Aaron and Miriam thought this, until God put them in their place and established that ONLY Moses would speak for God to all of Israel. The Jews cast Jeremiah into prison, UNTIL God destroyed them, and they finally realized that perhaps he really was a prophet. Jesus gave authority to his apostles, and none other, to receive revelation for the Church. Paul was not authorized to do anything without first getting the Twelve's blessing on it. Peter and John had to go with their higher authority to give the Holy Ghost into areas where members had only been baptized.

John, Paul and Peter all warned about deceivers who would preach other things - other than the things taught by the apostles and prophets! That is the pattern.

As for works, they cannot save us by themselves. Only Jesus saves us. However, we are saved by grace, through faithfulness on Jesus' name. As James taught, we demonstrate our faith by our works. Those who have no works, have no real and abiding faith, only lip service (which Isaiah and Jesus condemned).

We show our faith to God, by following the prophets He has sent to us. That has always been God's pattern. And those who ignore or reject that pattern do it to their own demise.

[LittleNipper]

Nipper,

The key is that the Lord will attend a prayer meeting of two people. But God's fullness requires so much more.

Aaron, who was high priest, and Miriam complained that Moses was hogging the power and limelight, thinking they were equal to him. Here we had two good people that were coming together for God. But God disagreed with them, as He had something higher, better, and more important than two gathering together. It was having a prophet over the congregation. Miriam was punished with leprosy for a week (seems Aaron was still needed to sacrifice in the Tabernacle, and couldn't do it if he were unclean).

Time and again, good people stood up against Moses and other prophets, and God cast them down for doing so.

IOW, good intentions about Christ and God are nice, but they cannot compete for God's attention, when it comes to His pattern of doing all things through prophets and apostles. Jesus told his apostles, "you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you...." On another occasion, Jesus warned those that said, "Lord, Lord, have we not done many miracles in your name, and in your name cast out devils?" At that time, the Lord will tell them that he does not know them, because they have not done His will.

What is His will? To obey the living prophets and apostles. That is the pattern. When they followed Moses, Samuel, Isaiah, Elijah, Jeremiah, et al, they were blessed. When they disobeyed, the Lord punished the people, regardless of whether they called on His name or not. Paul insisted that the foundation of the Church are the apostles and prophets, with Christ being "the chief cornerstone" (Ephesians 2). He explained that they are needed, otherwise people would be tossed about by every "wind of doctrine" (Ephesians 4:11-14).

Can you pray to God and feel His presence? Sure. But to have God's fullness, you have to follow the pattern set up by God in the scriptures. God communicates to mankind primarily through living prophets and apostles. To ignore the living prophets is like embracing the Old Testament, and rejecting the New Testament.

I have accepted CHRIST as my PERSONAL SAVIOR (capitals not meant to upset). I'm HIS and HE is mine. Your religion mixes Old Testament legalism with saving grace and claims authority. Sorry, I will not regress into working for savation, nor letting someone else tell me what CHRIST has to tell me.

[bytor2112]

I have accepted CHRIST as my PERSONAL SAVIOR (capitals not meant to upset). I'm HIS and HE is mine. Your religion mixes Old Testament legalism with saving grace and claims authority. Sorry, I will not regress into working for savation, nor letting someone else tell me what CHRIST has to tell me.

Little Nipper,

I am really surprised to find that you are 55 years old, seriously, I thought you were maybe 17. I don't mean that disrespectfully, it's just that your posts tend to not be discussions.......just declarations that don't really respond to anything.

[Maxel]

I would suggest you at least read I Corinthians 13:8 & I Corinthians 14:37. You may also wish to consider that in Matthew 7:22, it isn't what the rejected say but what they do not say that get them rejected.

I would suggest that to most true Christians, what is missing is rather obvious and what those being rejected say speaks volumns to their attitude concerning (hint, hint) what THEY have done. That I feel strongly is what JESUS was/is driving at in this verse. What JESUS says previously should get one ready for the obvious... Unless their concerns are with WORKS ---- (hint, hint).

You're only a Christian if you think this guy is cute.

BTW, why isn't this guy on probation since he's causing lots of problems and condescendingly calling all LDS not true Christians?

[Maxel]

I have accepted CHRIST as my PERSONAL SAVIOR (capitals not meant to upset). I'm HIS and HE is mine. Your religion mixes Old Testament legalism with saving grace and claims authority. Sorry, I will not regress into working for savation, nor letting someone else tell me what CHRIST has to tell me.

I thought this one was particularly funny. What do you think?

[Maxel]

Just for good measure, thought I'd share this profound idea.

[Faded]

I have accepted CHRIST as my PERSONAL SAVIOR (capitals not meant to upset). I'm HIS and HE is mine. Your religion mixes Old Testament legalism with saving grace and claims authority. Sorry, I will not regress into working for savation, nor letting someone else tell me what CHRIST has to tell me.

So in other words, "I know that I'm right. Only Christ can set me straight and I refuse to listen to anyone else." The reason that non-LDS are encouraged to post here is to have discussions. Not one-way lectures. Because you have closed your mind and cast away every appearance of respect for our beliefs, you make discussion impossible.

Somehow you seem to imply that nobody else here has accepted Christ into their lives as their Savior. You're wrong. Virtually every single person here has. I have. Are you going to call me a liar?

It's clear enough that you believe in the doctrines common to Born Again Christians. The VAST MAJORITY of all non-LDS Christians do not share your beliefs on those doctrines. They accept the absolute need for the blood of Christ, but they have a different view of Salvation than you. They believe that they can still fall away from God by their own actions. They believe they must continually repent throughout their lives to stay in the covenant with Christ. Catholics are an excellent example. The Catholic Church alone is bigger than all Protestant religions combined. Do you think that God will damn all Catholics to burn in hell for eternitiy for failing to accept your notion of being "Born Again"? You seem willing to say that God will damn all Latter Day Saints for not agreeing with you, so it must apply universally or not at all.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Faded

[darrel]

As a nondenominal christian the foundation of belief seems to have it's source in the bible only. A belief in Christ must be more than just a statement. It must include the witness of the Holy Ghost. Faith without works is dead, and as stated in James 2:19 Thou believest there is but one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble.

The adversary would lead away genuine seekers of truth with out of context statements and omissions which tend to subtly change truth into untruth.

[LittleNipper]

Little Nipper,

I am really surprised to find that you are 55 years old, seriously, I thought you were maybe 17. I don't mean that disrespectfully, it's just that your posts tend to not be discussions.......just declarations that don't really respond to anything.

Well, don't be surprised... You see, I'm not a professional religious forum guy. I work 8 to 5 with a break or two and a lunch in between. I consider myself an average Born-again Bible believing Fundamentalist Christian. I was saved from the age of 12.

Those I worship CHRIST JESUS with, at Easton Bible Church in Hainsport, New Jersey; do not consider the church the authority/standard, nor the good pastor for that matter. The BIBLE is our standard. EVERYTHING is measured against the BIBLE and even the BIBLE is understood within its own light and not with "outside" values, nor personal convictions ---- which maybe very difficult for you to comprehend, given your religious background.

I find it very difficult to deal with individuals who seem to feel the BIBLE is somehow insufficent, corrupted, hopelessly intangible, etc... I find that sadly funny. But that maybe simply because I've studied the Bible most of my life and have had dealings with atheists, agnostics and not a few "religious" people.

I do thank GOD for every opportunity HE has provided for me to share HIS GOSPEL of CHRIST. Salvation is a wonderful gift. I wish for everyone to accept it. When I have an opportunity I sew seeds, but reaping is such a blessing...

[LittleNipper]

So in other words, "I know that I'm right. Only Christ can set me straight and I refuse to listen to anyone else." The reason that non-LDS are encouraged to post here is to have discussions. Not one-way lectures. Because you have closed your mind and cast away every appearance of respect for our beliefs, you make discussion impossible.

Somehow you seem to imply that nobody else here has accepted Christ into their lives as their Savior. You're wrong. Virtually every single person here has. I have. Are you going to call me a liar?

It's clear enough that you believe in the doctrines common to Born Again Christians. The VAST MAJORITY of all non-LDS Christians do not share your beliefs on those doctrines. They accept the absolute need for the blood of Christ, but they have a different view of Salvation than you. They believe that they can still fall away from God by their own actions. They believe they must continually repent throughout their lives to stay in the covenant with Christ. Catholics are an excellent example. The Catholic Church alone is bigger than all Protestant religions combined. Do you think that God will damn all Catholics to burn in hell for eternitiy for failing to accept your notion of being "Born Again"? You seem willing to say that God will damn all Latter Day Saints for not agreeing with you, so it must apply universally or not at all.

Not in the least. I believe that born-again Christians are found in many "religious" persuasions. I do feel that some mature spiritually at different rates and finally outgrow a particular setting. Some never reach maturity and remain babes in CHRIST JESUS, and some of this maybe the result of false teachings. I do not feel in the least that anyone MUST attend a particualar church in order to receive any special blessings from GOD. This is what a PERSONAL SAVIOR is all about. CHRIST deals with the individual, his particular issues, and his heart...

[pam]

Just curious nipper...only curiosity...why do you keep saying Christ Jesus when His name is Jesus Christ?

[darrel]

Well, don't be surprised... You see, I'm not a professional religious forum guy. I work 8 to 5 with a break or two and a lunch in between. I consider myself an average Born-again Bible believing Fundamentalist Christian. I was saved from the age of 12.

Those I worship CHRIST JESUS with, at Easton Bible Church in Hainsport, New Jersey; do not consider the church the authority/standard, nor the good pastor for that matter. The BIBLE is our standard. EVERYTHING is measured against the BIBLE and even the BIBLE is understood within its own light and not with "outside" values, nor personal convictions ---- which maybe very difficult for you to comprehend, given your religious background.

I find it very difficult to deal with individuals who seem to feel the BIBLE is somehow insufficent, corrupted, hopelessly intangible, etc... I find that sadly funny. But that maybe simply because I've studied the Bible most of my life and have had dealings with atheists, agnostics and not a few "religious" people.

I do thank GOD for every opportunity HE has provided for me to share HIS GOSPEL of CHRIST. Salvation is a wonderful gift. I wish for everyone to accept it. When I have an opportunity I sew seeds, but reaping is such a blessing...

The Bible is the word of God and not intangable or corrupted. It is only intangable and corrupted by those who would believe it to be the only source of Gods instruction to all his children resulting in many divisions and much confusion .

God is the same yesterday, today and forever, an unchangable God who loves us so much he gives his instruction to us today through his Prophets and Apostles just as he did in the Old and New Testiment.

Traditional Christians believe the heavens are closed. That is what Lucifer would have us believe so he can dissuade us from the truth. God does speak today as stated by Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing except he revealeth His secrets unto his servents the Prophets.

We of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints witness to the world that Jesus Christ lives. We are his followers and he is our Savior. We invite all to open their hearts to the witness of the Holy Ghost and seek to find His revealed Gospel truth in the Bible, the Book of Mormon, in The Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price each containing Gods word and full Gospel through his Holy Prophets from the creation.

Edited March 5, 2009 by darrel

[bytor2112]

I find it very difficult to deal with individuals who seem to feel the BIBLE is somehow insufficent, corrupted, hopelessly intangible, etc... I find that sadly funny. But that maybe simply because I've studied the Bible most of my life and have had dealings with atheists, agnostics and not a few "religious" people.

We love the Bible...it is the word of God. But God has chosen to give us more.....more of the words that lead to Eternal life. Why are you so put off by the idea that maybe, just maybe, God has more to say? Why wouldn't that excite you? If you knew anything about God at all, you would know that his words never cease.......

From the Book of Mormon:

3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.

4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?

5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.

6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?

7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?

8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.

9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.

12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.

[Connie]

You're only a Christian if you think this guy is cute.

Okay, whoever owns this beagle, i want it! It is wwaayy too cute!!

[Maxel]

Okay, whoever owns this beagle, i want it! It is wwaayy too cute!!

Congratulations! You have passed the Official Test of Christianity.

[prospectmom]

So we can quit drawing fish in the sand????