Will there be polyandry in Heaven?

[MormonGirl02]

Hi everyone. Back when polygamy was allowed in the LDS Church, I am sure that some people were sealed to more than one spouse. So, will they be married to all of their spouses in Heaven or just one of them and if just one of them, which one of them?

[hordak]

Hi everyone. Back when polygamy was allowed in the LDS Church, I am sure that some people were sealed to more than one spouse. So, will they be married to all of their spouses in Heaven or just one of them and if just one of them, which one of them?

The church still does it. Husband are sealed to other wives after death (of the wife) and i think (not sure though) a man get get sealed again after divorce.

I would say yes. A sealing is a sealing, is a sealing. If they weren't valid after 1 i don't think the church would continue to seal men to more then 1 wife.

Edited March 12, 2009 by hordak

[Gwen]

i don't know how second sealings after a wife's death work.... but i will say and it has been said many times on this site that when a couple divorces though the husband can be sealed again without a cancellation (does need clearance from the first presidency) the sealing of a marriage that ended in divorce is not and will not be eternal. the reasons for not cancelling the marriage has nothing to do with the marriage covenants made by the spouses to eachother (that has already been broken and can not have the blessings of being eternal) but the covenants each person made with god individualy.

[Hemidakota]

Hi everyone. Back when polygamy was allowed in the LDS Church, I am sure that some people were sealed to more than one spouse. So, will they be married to all of their spouses in Heaven or just one of them and if just one of them, which one of them?

If the sealing was done in the walls of the temple and by appropriate priesthood authority, the answer is yes. Now, only a male can be sealed to more than one spouse where a woman is only sealed to one male.

[Gwen]

If the sealing was done in the walls of the temple and by appropriate priesthood authority, the answer is yes. Now, only a male can be sealed to more than one spouse where a woman is only sealed to one male.

if the sealing was done in the walls of the temple and by appropriate priesthood authority and the couple lived the covenants they made. the lord will keep his promises but we can rob ourselves of those promises in many ways....... when it comes to marriage divorce is one of those ways.

i have heard many stories (though i can't verify any of them) of ppl doing family history and finding faithful women who were married to a faithful man who dies before her and she remarries to another faithful man (usually pioneer stories) and she was never sealed to either of them. the question is raised "who is she to be sealed". as the stories go she was sealed to both and they will work it out with the lord later.

[Hemidakota]

When it comes to temple sealing annulment, you need permission from the Savior in doing so. This is why we have to go through the First Presidency in seeking such answer.

She will have the choice but only to one man. Perhaps, where her love is stronger is the indication of the winning companion. :)

[Wingnut]

The church still does it. Husband are sealed to other wives after death (of the wife) and i think (not sure though) a man get get sealed again after divorce.

I think it's important to distinguish that husbands can be sealed to other wives after the death of their first wife. Not necessarily that they are, but that they can be.

i have heard many stories (though i can't verify any of them) of ppl doing family history and finding faithful women who were married to a faithful man who dies before her and she remarries to another faithful man (usually pioneer stories) and she was never sealed to either of them. the question is raised "who is she to be sealed". as the stories go she was sealed to both and they will work it out with the lord later.

That's what I've been told. My grandmother was married four times. First to my grandfather, second to the true love of her life, third to a person the word for whom if I typed it here would get me banned, and fourth to the man she was married to for 25 years. Who do I seal her to? My family member? Her true love? The person she was with the longest? As I understand it, I would have the work for her done with each husband, and let things sort themselves out on the other side.

[hordak]

if the sealing was done in the walls of the temple and by appropriate priesthood authority and the couple lived the covenants they made. the lord will keep his promises but we can rob ourselves of those promises in many ways....... when it comes to marriage divorce is one of those ways.

With out going into specifics is one of the covenants to not divorce?

[Gwen]

you can die married to someone and not have ever lived to your covenants and not be worthy of eternal marriage. divorce is just a glaringly obvious way to know that someone hasn't and for whatever reasons will not live up to their sealing covenants. you can not be divorced and still live your sealing covenant.

[Hemidakota]

How would your statement effect Emma then? She did not live worthy of her temple convenants but she is now with Joseph Smith?

[captmoroniRM]

Polyandry, by definition is one woman having multiple husbands.

Having read most of the published writings of Joseph Smith, he never once taught or sanctioned the practice of Polyandry. No prophet since has, to my knowledge. The practice itself is against the order of heaven.

The Priesthood is the organizing power and principle in the eternities. It is the authority to bind on earth and in heaven. It is what "organizes" us into family units. It is what validates sacred ordinances. It is necessary for exaltation.

The principle of exaltation involves a man submitting himself to the Celestial law by covenant and his wives submitting themselves unto him. Males and Females who reject the heavenly order will fail to be exalted, remaining separate and single throughout eternity. In regards to plural marriage, it is still one man with separate, solemn covenants with each individual woman, not one man with one covenant to several women. They submit themselves to their husband, by covenant.

Polyandry would be in disagreement with these principles. It would result in unnatural unions which would not bring the full blessings of exaltation. It would not even be the same as the Lord's justification of using polygamy to raise up seed unto him.

If you meant will polygamy exist in the heavens? yes. If a man was sealed to multiple wives in this life, and all lived faithful to those convenants, then yes. Polygamy, though not the defining or essential aspect, is a part of the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage

[Gwen]

fortunately i'm not emma's judge, god is. i do not know if she lived worthy or not, i also do not know if she is with joseph or not. i do not claim to know who will or will not be exalted. my point is that if you choose to divorce or live a marriage that is not according to your covenants then you have no promise. god will force no man to heaven.

my personal opinion if you have been sealed and subquently divorce (even if it was on grounds that the church has deemed acceptable or it was not by your own 'choice') you will have to account for that with god. you will have serious questions to answer. i do not make such statments lightly given my husband was sealed to his first wife prior to their divorce. if you do not live your covenants you will have no claim upon the accompanying blessings, upon your spouse or them upon you. you have no promise.

also my personal opinion (more to do with the question about emma than divorce), i think circumstances in this life prevent ppl from being capable of one thing or another. just as someone that is mentally challenged will not be acountable for some things neither will those who have other extenuating circumstances. that is why it's not my place to judge, only god can do that.

[bodhigirlsmiles]

ok, so i am about to go on my rant about polygyny (don't worry....it's not what you think!!).

i do not understand why everyone is so hard on the lds people for their past with regard to polygamy (and polygyny specifically)! first of all, it was done for a reason. second of all, it was done in small numbers.

even if it was continuted today - for religious or other reasons - i don't understand what the issue is.

polygyny has been (and continues to be) a very popular form of union in the world. my own people (tibetan) have practiced polyandry (and, for that matter, adelphogamy) for centuries. it was an accepted social practice as there were far fewer women than there were men. this is also true of nepal.

polyandry achieved a similar goal to what primogeniture did in 19th-century england.

millions of people have practiced some form of polygyny in africa for a very long time. it was accepted in ancient hebrew society, in china, and in many traditional polynesian cultures.

estimates are that it is currently practiced by 20% (some say as high as 35%) of modern societies.

in other words....everyone (in my humble opinion ) should leave mormons alone about their past. what's done is done, and it seems to have been done for good reason. there is so much of good about the lds people and i fail to see why everyone focuses on one aspect of their history that they understand so poorly.

ok, i'm finished now. sorry to go on and on!!

[HiJolly]

Polyandry, by definition is one woman having multiple husbands.

Having read most of the published writings of Joseph Smith, he never once taught or sanctioned the practice of Polyandry.

If you were to add "...in public", then you would be correct. As it is, you are wrong, as evidenced by the temple sealing records and Hyrum's journal (though those entries were in cypher-- they have been decoded).

No prophet since has, to my knowledge.

I agree with that.

The practice itself is against the order of heaven.

Joseph Smith Jr. disagrees with you. If you could but gaze into heaven for 5 minutes...

HiJolly

[foreverafter]

Emma lived worthy of her temple covenants very much so. She was one of the greatest women to ever live upon the earth, she was every bit as worthy, strong & valiant as Joseph. If you really understood the magnitude of the trials she had to endure, you would see that. Even Joseph's mother attested to that.

So little has been revealed about the laws of marriage. But one thing we know for sure, God does not ask women to love a man for years here on earth & give her life for him, just to have him taken from her in the next life, whether he is her 1st 2nd or 10th, as long as she was righteous. Women will love their husbands, all of them, just as much in the next life as they do here, just as men will love their wives that they righteously had here on earth. It is against the order of heaven to think God would deny women the blessing of being with all their husbands. We just don't have all revealed yet about marriages in heaven, very little in fact, but common sense assures women that God honors any righteous marriage, even if laws pertaining to it haven't been revealed yet.

Joseph F. Smith said that God gives no gift or blessing to his sons that he doesn't also offer to his daughters. That should give us the answer right there.

Our sealings in the temple, whether 1st, 2nd, etc. are only valid if 1. We were really worthy in the 1st place to enter the temple & 2. If we live up to those covenants we make to our spouse & God. The Prophets say that if we really were keeping our covenants we would never even think about divorcing, cause we would be too in love with our spouse to consider it.

When someone divorces & moves on to someone new, they break their covenants to their spouse & lose the sealing also, even though it may not be unsealed officially yet. So it's impossible for a man to be sealed to more than one "living" woman. For dating or marrying another automatically breaks the sealing with the 1st wife, for one must be faithful to their spouse to keep the sealing in tact.

[Traveler]

Hi everyone. Back when polygamy was allowed in the LDS Church, I am sure that some people were sealed to more than one spouse. So, will they be married to all of their spouses in Heaven or just one of them and if just one of them, which one of them?

Marriage is a covenant between two people and G-d. I do not mean this to sound as criticism but your question indicates that you do not understand covenants or G-d and that your understanding of marriage is mostly understood from the view points of a corrupt world.

All things in the kingdom of G-d are based on the greatest possible good in eternity and we currently see things concerning intimate relationships from a mostly carnal and sensual point of view based on a physical mortal life experience. The scriptures are clear about marriage – it is intended to be a covenant between one woman, one man and G-d and to be binding throughout all eternity. There are some additions or caveats that may appear as exceptions that are because of things that are clear to G-d and somewhat difficult to comprehend in mortality.

This is the covenant of marriage: To be faithful to one’s spouse as well as G-d and to keep all the commandments of G-d. Being faithful means to be married and intimate one man to one woman; the only exception would be if G-d commands a man and his wife to include another woman in their marriage covenant – according to their first marriage covenant they are obligated to obey G-d’ commandment.

BTW – divorce is not a commandment of G-d but a sorry misunderstanding and corruption among mankind that is extremely difficult to overcome and repent of for all involved (including husbands, wives, their children and all those who care about the broken family) whenever such a tragedy occurs. It is my personal belief that current acceptance of divorce in our human society presents the greatest single danger to all our wellbeing and liberty (even a greater danger than all other threats combined – I believe divorce is a possible “gateway” to almost every other evil that burdens society.

The Traveler

[captmoroniRM]

HiJolly, please cite your evidence that Joseph Smith taught or sanctioned Polyandry. If you want to, PM them to me. Your comments do not pass the "sniff" test, and I have no idea what you want to say by your last comment. Polyandry is not in tune with D&C 132 or what is taught and performed in the temple.

I'm I am wrong, please provide the necessary information to show it, rather than simply a "no, you are wrong."

[Just_A_Guy]

With out going into specifics is one of the covenants to not divorce?

I would say so, yes. The covenants outlined in the sealing ceremony are pretty broad, but I'm pretty sure that "putting away" your spouse is a pretty flagrant violation of them.

HiJolly, please cite your evidence that Joseph Smith taught or sanctioned Polyandry. If you want to, PM them to me. Your comments do not pass the "sniff" test, and I have no idea what you want to say by your last comment. Polyandry is not in tune with D&C 132 or what is taught and performed in the temple.

Joseph Smith practiced polyandry, and several of the women involved went on to Utah and left accounts stating so. See The Wives of Joseph Smith, which lists all Joseph's known wives and also notes whether those women were simultaneously married to other men. If you click on the names of each woman, you can read more about her and see references to first-hand accounts (journals, affidavits, and the like).

[hordak]

HiJolly, please cite your evidence that Joseph Smith taught or sanctioned Polyandry. If you want to, PM them to me. Your comments do not pass the "sniff" test, and I have no idea what you want to say by your last comment. Polyandry is not in tune with D&C 132 or what is taught and performed in the temple.

I'm I am wrong, please provide the necessary information to show it, rather than simply a "no, you are wrong."

http://familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=7762167

If the link don't work go to the church Genealogy site and look up Joseph Smith.

Edited March 12, 2009 by hordak

[Moksha]

Joseph Smith practiced polyandry, and several of the women involved went on to Utah and left accounts stating so. See The Wives of Joseph Smith, which lists all Joseph's known wives and also notes whether those women were simultaneously married to other men. If you click on the names of each woman, you can read more about her and see references to first-hand accounts (journals, affidavits, and the like).

I think the confusion may stem from many people never having heard this before. However, learning of the Joseph Smith's polyandry is part of the innoculation process to prevent us from being taken unaware by this information.

:)

[captmoroniRM]

I've done some reading on the subject of Polyandry.

In the Church, we tend to use Sealing and Marriage interchangeably. There is no evidence that these were "marriages" but sealings to one another. From Fairmormon.org:

Plural marriage was one means by which Joseph implemented the broader doctrine of sealing. Ultimately, his intent seems to have been to reunite the human family into a bonded whole. "Joseph did not marry women to form a warm, human companionship," observed Richard Bushman, "but to create a network of related wives, children, and kinsmen that would endure into the eternities."[3] Alma Allred agrees with Todd Compton that "[m]arriage, sealing and adoption, in fact, were nearly interchangeable concepts,"[4] for Joseph's followers, but criticizes Compton because this principle is "much too important to be relegated to, or lost in a footnote" when discussing Joseph's plural marriages.[5]

Sealing creates new, eternal families, and "[a]s each new family came into being, it became another link in the chain of families stretching back to Adam, who was linked to God. Thus the 'family of God' became more than metaphor."[6] It is but a short step from sealing existing families to extending that privilege outward. Since many, if not most, of the saints would have family outside the church, there was an understandable anxiety that they be included in the new, eternal family being forged by Joseph.

Later in Church history, this was accomplished by adoption, where faithful members would serve as surrogate parents in the divine order. This practice was not without its problems, as many surrogates began to look on their adoption of others as a route to glory and power, both spiritual and temporal, rather than as a service for the family of heaven.[7] Adoption by living non-relatives was eventually replaced by the present practice of sealing members to deceased ancestors, with the expectation that definitive resolution of such matters can await the millennial years.

This expanded understanding, however, was decades in the future. In Joseph's day, the necessity of sealing was clear, and most members did not anticipate having faithful family to whom they could be sealed. The Mormons' anticipation of an imminent end to the world heightened the urgency.[8]

The role of sealing in marriages was clear—as we will see, Joseph may have extended the role of marriage to binding not just his partners, but their spouses and family as well, into the divine family.

The Sealing ordinance, is not simply to seal husband and wife in marriage, but link the human family together going back to the days of Adam. Thus, being sealed to someone doesn't mean you have to be linked to marriage. My mom was adopted at birth. When she found the church, her adopted dad had died. Her adopted mom died when I was 15. Both, at the time of death had married others. When my mom did their temple work, she thought all she would be able to do was get them sealed together. She found out that despite the fact she was adopted, she could be sealed to them.

Sealings are also essential to the Resurrection. The resurrection is a priesthood ordinance, and each priesthood holder will have the opportunity to resurrect his family. That is part of why those who reject the gospel and have no sealing link will be the last to be resurrected.

The same page also describes how information on them is scarce as most of the information is all second hand-regarding it. Most of the information available about his relationships aren't from primary sources. It also analyzes each 'marriage' by itself as to reasons why it was so.

There is also no evidence that these relationships were sexual in any way. No children, despite many accusations, have been found as a result of these "marriages." Thus, there is no proof that these relationships fell under our traditional understanding of "marriage."

So in a very tecnical sense, yes, Joseph Smith practiced polyandry. In the actual context of what happened, these were not "marriages" but "sealings."

Sources:

Polygamy book/Polyandry - FAIRMormon

Joseph Smith and polygamy/Polyandry - FAIRMormon

[bytebear]

I would say so, yes. The covenants outlined in the sealing ceremony are pretty broad, but I'm pretty sure that "putting away" your spouse is a pretty flagrant violation of them.

Joseph Smith practiced polyandry, and several of the women involved went on to Utah and left accounts stating so. See The Wives of Joseph Smith, which lists all Joseph's known wives and also notes whether those women were simultaneously married to other men. If you click on the names of each woman, you can read more about her and see references to first-hand accounts (journals, affidavits, and the like).

That doesn't really count. The other men were not sealed to their wives. Many people seem to mistake a temporal marriage with a celestial sealing. One can exist with the other. So technically a temporal marrage to one man and a celestial sealing to another man is still monogomy.

[Maxel]

I think anyone delving into historical accounts and using those as a basis for doctrinal correctness might be disappointed in the end. Joseph Smith was not a perfect man; nor was Brigham Young. Smith especially was tasked with the formation of the Church according to revelation. Like all godly institutions that interact with fallen humanity, living by the spirit of revelation sometimes produces results that aren't exactly 'kosher' with God. That's part of the reason I believe God makes the specific that He justifies His prophets in their actions: any mistakes they make are not because of unrighteousness, but because of the nature of fallen humanity.

That being said, the issue of polygyny/polyandry is a tricky one. It's abundantly clear that the laws governing the sealing of spouses does not necessarily exclude one partner being sealed to more than one person (and as far as I know, doctrine leans towards only the man being able to be sealed to more than one wife). Instances of either in Mormon history provide shaky support at best, as our modern understanding of the doctrine should take the end result into account: marriage was between one man and one wife, except in cases when a righteous Priesthood holder was commanded or desired to take another wife for the glory of the Lord.

[Moksha]

So in a very tecnical sense, yes, Joseph Smith practiced polyandry. In the actual context of what happened, these were not "marriages" but "sealings."

Yikes, does that mean that all those couples married in the Temple are not actually married? :eek:

[captmoroniRM]

No. When a couple goes to perform a sealing, they are sealed together as husband and wife. Temple "marriages" are both celestial, and civil.

It's kind of like squares and rectangles. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. Since most sealings now are temple marriages, we tend to use them interchangeably when they are not. All marriages in the temple are sealings, but not all sealings are marriages.