Will there be polyandry in Heaven?

[pam]

Hi everyone. Back when polygamy was allowed in the LDS Church, I am sure that some people were sealed to more than one spouse. So, will they be married to all of their spouses in Heaven or just one of them and if just one of them, which one of them?

Are we asking about polyandry or polygamy? Your title says one thing and your post says another.

No to the polyandry.

[foreverafter]

Yikes, does that mean that all those couples married in the Temple are not actually married? :eek:

No but it does mean that most temple marriages who divorce are 100% still married, & the divorce means nothing, unless they are one of the rare ones who are justified to be divorced.

[Fiannan]

This seems as good a place as any to ask this question since it is related but suppose a woman was really good friends with a couple for years and years and the woman in question never married. When the couple dies can the woman get a sealing to the man who is dead?

[bytebear]

This seems as good a place as any to ask this question since it is related but suppose a woman was really good friends with a couple for years and years and the woman in question never married. When the couple dies can the woman get a sealing to the man who is dead?

If she has it in her will or something, I see no reason why not. But the church does not perform sealings now unless the couple was married at some point in their lives. So you can't just take two random people in the 1700s and seal them. Same for children. But adopted children can be sealed to the adoptive parents. I do recall that some historical figures have had people sealed to them who were considered long time companions. But that comes with a knowledge of the couple, and probably through permission of the First Presidency, which implies some level of spiritual revelation on the matter.

[Snow]

When it comes to temple sealing annulment, you need permission from the Savior in doing so.

Uh - okay - sure.

[pam]

If she has it in her will or something

Huh? So I can put a clause in my will that I want to be sealed to someone? I don't think it works that way. Hmmm in that case...who would I want to torment for eternity?

[Maxel]

Huh? So I can put a clause in my will that I want to be sealed to someone? I don't think it works that way. Hmmm in that case...who would I want to torment for eternity?

I think it only works for spouses who were married civilly but, for some reason, not sealed in the temple.

I almost fell off the chair laughing when I saw the second half of your comment.

[deseretgov]

So let say there is a boyfriend and girlfriend. They have been dating for a while. However before the man could propose or they could get married in the temple the girl dies. Could the man get sealed to his dead girlfriend? Since she would probably be over 18 would parental permission be required? Just question I've had pop into my mind every now and then.

[Maxel]

So let say there is a boyfriend and girlfriend. They have been dating for a while. However before the man could propose or they could get married in the temple the girl dies. Could the man get sealed to his dead girlfriend? Since she would probably be over 18 would parental permission be required? Just question I've had pop into my mind every now and then.

I doubt it, and I don't think it should be done. The girl was taken for a reason: the boy needs to be able to move on with his life.

If, for some reason the boy and girl were supposed to be married and sealed, the Lord would see to it in the eternities if both lived their lives faithfully.

[captmoroniRM]

In regards to the last what if several scenarios, I think those are the kinds of things that will be sorted out during the Millenium.

[Moksha]

Huh? So I can put a clause in my will that I want to be sealed to someone? Hmmm in that case...who would I want to torment for eternity?

Johnny Depp

[bytebear]

Huh? So I can put a clause in my will that I want to be sealed to someone? I don't think it works that way. Hmmm in that case...who would I want to torment for eternity?

Well, I am assuming both people have agreed to it. Sure it would take special permission, but I don't see it as out of the realm of possiblity. So, if you can get Johnny Depp to agree to it, why not?

[StallionMcBeastly]

I realize this is a bit off topic, but oh well..

I do not understand why society views polygamy as so weird and "Ooooooohh whoaa he had more than one wife? Freak!"

But at the same instance, if a man goes out and sleeps with four different women in one weekend he'll get a high five and a congratulations from society.

But if a man decides to marry four women, love them and provide for them for eternity he's a weirdo.

Makes no sense.

[Ezequiel]

I also had a questions about this - or related to celestial polygamy. I have always felt embarassed to ask this question to anyone because I feel it may be in the verge of being blasphemy. But Heavenly Father.... is He Himself a polygamist? That would make sense on why He has been able to have billions and billions of children.

[foreverafter]

The Prophets have warned that Polygamy is the carnal natural man desire that most men usually eventually regress to. They call it an abomination & one of the worst of sins. Most societies for 6000 years have done it, because men have let this natural evil desire run rampant & have abused women by it (even though many women have gone along willingly). Would men have ever let women have the same progative & collected husbands? Hardly. Not that that would be right either, until God authorizes women to. Polygamy, unless authorized by God, is just another form of spouse abuse that weak & desperate women so often go along with & don't expect respect & faithfulness from their man.

Only at rare times has God ever authorized a few rare men to live this principle. A righteous man would never desire more than one wife. The only men who have been worthy to live it are those who would rather die than live it & hurt their wives so deeply. Thus God has always given the 1st wife the power to decide if her husband was righteous enough or not to live it. For only she usually knows if he is righteous & does not have a desire for other women. A truely righteous man would want his wife to do the choosing for any other wife, someone she would feel most comfortable with if it had to be. Even authorized polgamy does not allow men to have wandering eyes or to date & look around for women. Men must be just as faithful to their 1st wife as she is to him, until the wife asks him to take on some specific woman. God is women's greatest defender & protector against the abuse & unfaithfulness of men.

Edited March 14, 2009 by foreverafter

[Just_A_Guy]

Thus God has always given the 1st wife the power to decide if her husband was righteous enough or not to live it.

It's probably worth noting that, per D&C 132:64-65, the man who holds the keys of the sealing power (i.e. the President of the Church) is exempt from this "Law of Sarah".

[foreverafter]

It's probably worth noting that, per D&C 132:64-65, the man who holds the keys of the sealing power (i.e. the President of the Church) is exempt from this "Law of Sarah".

That means that if the wife says no, because either she feels he is not worthy or she herself is not righteous enough to let him, then he is not to live the 'Law of Sarah' (which is plural marriage) but to be as good a husband as ever to his wife, to either become worthy himself or help her repent & be able to live the law someday. Joseph Smith was told here that if Emma did not give her consent to it, for whatever reason, then he was not to live it.

[Snow]

Only at rare times has God ever authorized a few rare men to live this principle. A righteous man would never desire more than one wife. The only men who have been worthy to live it are those who would rather die than live it & hurt their wives so deeply.

Sources please. I think you are just making that up.

Thus God has always given the 1st wife the power to decide if her husband was righteous enough or not to live it. For only she usually knows if he is righteous & does not have a desire for other women. A truely righteous man would want his wife to do the choosing for any other wife, someone she would feel most comfortable with if it had to be. Even authorized polgamy does not allow men to have wandering eyes or to date & look around for women. Men must be just as faithful to their 1st wife as she is to him, until the wife asks him to take on some specific woman. God is women's greatest defender & protector against the abuse & unfaithfulness of men.

Please explain Joseph Smith and Emma then.

[foreverafter]

Please explain Joseph Smith and Emma then.

Emma gave her consent or Joseph would not have lived it.

[Just_A_Guy]

That means that if the wife says no, because either she feels he is not worthy or she herself is not righteous enough to let him, then he is not to live the 'Law of Sarah' (which is plural marriage) but to be as good a husband as ever to his wife, to either become worthy himself or help her repent & be able to live the law someday. Joseph Smith was told here that if Emma did not give her consent to it, for whatever reason, then he was not to live it.

Not quite. The Law of Sarah is the wife's right to give consent to (or veto) her husband's subsequent marriages. The President of the Church is exempt from this law. Look very closely at the scripture: If the wife refuses consent, it is still lawful for the husband to receive "all things whatsoever I . . . will give unto him". This is how the Law of Sarah is understood by historians; this is how it is taught at BYU (see here, or here if you don't have PowerPoint), and how FAIR explains it.

Early LDS history bears this out. Emma most certainly was not aware of all Joseph's marriages (though she did consent to some of them) at the time they occurred.

[foreverafter]

Plural Marriage is called the "Law of Sarah" for Sarah asked Abraham to live it. And Sarah was the one to decide if & how long the 2nd wife stays around. As we see Abraham understood this & left it to Sarah to send the 2nd wife away when she did not treat Sarah right. It is the woman who asks her husband to live the law & take on the woman or women she chooses. D&C 132:64 states "if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood,.. & :61 "and the first give her consent,"

It clearly states here that the woman holds the keys to this power & God says her consent or not must be honored, or God would not even have put that in there. He expected men to listen to their wives, for that is how a man truely proves his humility & righteousness. Only the wife knows if the husband is truely righteous & keeping his covenants to love her with a True Love & treat her like a queen.

If he isn't or if he has desires for other women or wandering eyes or heart, etc. then most any wife would know that & the man would not be worthy of any additional women. A man must be righteous & completely faithful to his wife in every way, just as she must, to be worthy of plural marriage, Heavenly Father does not let men have even 1 wife for long if he doesn't give his life to love & serve her every need & desire & protect her from all harm & pain & abuse, especially from himself.

The prophets have been very clear that if a man was righteous he would have true love for his wife & would rather die before bringing her any pain. Plural marriage & sharing a husband was one of the most painful things that a woman could ever have to endure in this life, far worse than child bearing, & so if her husband was righteous & humble he would of course agree with God that she is the one who decides everything pertaining to this principle & she holds the power of this principle & whether her husband lives it or not & with whom. This also makes the 1st wife actually the protector of other women too, for if she knows that her husband cannot love her sufficiently than he probably won't treat other women right either.

Our more recent Prophets have given us greater clarity on the marriage relationship & how Heavenly Father feels about men who neglect or abuse or are unfaithful in any way to their wife & hurt them in any way & what it takes for a man to be truely righteous.

The secret to understanding this rare principle of plural marriage is in the highest law of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." All other laws & teachings of Prophets must be based in this.

Edited March 15, 2009 by foreverafter

[Just_A_Guy]

Foreverafter, I agree with much of what you say. But I believe you are misreading D&C 132.

Plural Marriage is called the "Law of Sarah"

Where? By whom?

It clearly states here that the woman holds the keys to this power

Not likely, since keys are associated with priesthood--which women do not hold. Besides, the verse goes on to point out "and he teaches . . ."

The reference more likely pertains to Joseph Smith, who per v. 59 holds "the keys of the power of this priesthood".

He expected men to listen to their wives, for that is how a man truely proves his humility & righteousness. Only the wife knows if the husband is truely righteous & keeping his covenants to love her with a True Love & treat her like a queen.

No argument there. :)

[foreverafter]

Just A Guy, you seem like an intelligent thinking man, so I will explain further as to where I am coming from.

Women do in fact hold an equal authority & power as men. Joseph F. Smith said that these is no gift or blessing that God gives to his sons that he does not also offer to his daughters (& the priesthood & plural marriage, are blessings & gifts for righteousness). The power & authority women hold may or may not be called Priesthood though, but Brigham Young did referred to women honoring their priesthood also, the same as men should honor theirs.

But Matthew Cowley stated in Gen. Conf. some years ago, (& Sheri Dew quoted him again more recently in G.C.), I have the references but not here in front of me, that all women (even non-members) are born with an authority & power equal to the Priesthood, whereas men, he said, have to be worthy of it & given it to them here on earth. It certainly isn't talked about much & its understood even less. But women have their own authority & rights to act & preside over certain things, one is the act of giving life, another is marriage & children & family. Women were asked & consented to come & sacrifice & be a helpmeet for men on this earth (while God & women knew that it would be the disposition of nearly all men to try to execise unrighteous dominion over them & abuse & disrespect them & not treat them as equals for nearly 6000 years,) but women agreed to come & help their husbands anyway & help them make it back to the Father. Women did not need a helpmeet but a protector & provider. Men are to protect & provide for women, for if she is just protected, loved & provided for, most women will be righteous & fulfill their divine roles of Motherhood.

Very little has been revealed to the world about the authority & power & station of women, unless a person seeks to know it. But the Prophets are saying more & more about women as the years go on & we now today understand marriage & the woman's role & equality & position far more than the early saints did.

[Elphaba]

Emma gave her consent or Joseph would not have lived it.

Emma never gave her consent to Joseph to marry other women. In fact, Joseph had already married a number of women before Emma knew anything about them.

The fact is, Joseph lied to Emma about his marriages, until it was impossible to keep hiding them. Additionally, he never told her about all of them.

Emma's hatred of polygamy was visceral, so much so she was seriously considering divorce. There is a good chance she would have followed through if Joseph had lived, and continued the practice.

Elphaba

[Moksha]

They were some points of interest in the link posted by Just A Guy:

Polygamy and Joseph Smith

• Joseph Smith probably married no one between 1836 and 1841.
• Joseph married about 30 women.
• 10 of these women were already married to other men.

Polygamy and Joseph Smith

• These 10 continued to live with their husbands.
• Six of the husbands were active LDS members.
• It is likely but not certain that sexual relations were part of at least some of the marriages.

Polygamy and Joseph Smith

• There is no clear evidence that Joseph fathered any children except by Emma.

Polygamy and Joseph Smith

• Joseph would usually ask a relative of the woman to arrange the marriage. There was seldom any indication of romance.
• He recognized that if word spread about plural marriage, his life would be in danger.

Polygamy in Nauvoo

• By the time of Joseph Smith’s death, about 30 men in Nauvoo had plural wives.
• Ceremonies were held publicly, but sometimes in disguise. In one case, Joseph’s bride was dressed as a man and the group acted as if they were engaged in conversation.

Polygamy in Nauvoo

• Some of Joseph’s wives lived in the Mansion House for periods of time. Most lived with their own family.
• Most plural wives did not live with their husbands.