Fiannan Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes for TreatmentThis is just pathetic -- has any president ever proposed betraying the sacrifices of US military people with something like this? I agree with the American Legion leaders fully on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes for TreatmentThis is just pathetic -- has any president ever proposed betraying the sacrifices of US military people with something like this? I agree with the American Legion leaders fully on this one.Yes, it's sad to say - Veterans are heroes in the wars they fight and immediately forgotten afterwards by the government that sent them. My Grandpa was Chief Petty Officer aboard several Canadian navies, working as engineer in a place choked with asbestos. He eventually developed lung cancer, which the government refused to acknowledge was caused by his time in the Korean War amidst all the carcinogenic substances.He fought on Minesweepers, pulling explosives from bays. He fought on Destroyers, with cat and mouse games battling against the enemy. It was his own government that did him in.As for your question: How about I bring up the Republican chair of the Veterans Committee?Steve Buyer - SourceWatchSteve Buyer reduced veterans benefits, refused to accept responsibility for the government to pay for mental drugs and generally treated them poorly while he was in office. It's a tragedy and Obama shouldn't have done it, but yes. Both Republican and Democrat forget their Veterans. It's a national shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Again, let's see what the actual proposal is. This article is so one-sided and narrowly focused that you can't tell what is happening on the other side of the table. Obama has been known to bring sides together to hash out solutions to problems. Can we at least wait to see the entire proposal before we demonize its weaknesses and ignore is strengths? I also think the complaint in this article is somewhat suspect given that the AL Commander said, "The American Legion has long advocated for Medicare reimbursement to VA for the treatment of veterans." So veterans who buy government insurance can have their insurance company reimburse the VA but not veterans who buy private insurance? I'm failing to see the logic here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 This is another article on the subject....Obama mulls making vets foot bill for service injuries : World & Nation : The Buffalo News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truegrits Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 While there are soooo many things I resent my money being used for, helping/supporting/caring for our vets is not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Obama has been known to bring sides together to hash out solutions to problems. When? Any examples? Any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book_of_Mormon_Warrior Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) When? Any examples? Any?I know! I almost burst out laughing when I read that, but I didn't want to frighten the neighbors. Maybe it was...*Rescinding the Mexico City Policy and making our tax dollars pay for abortions around the world.?*Lifting the ban on federal funding of Embryonic Stem Cell research and making our tax payer dollars go towards creating and destroying a human life?*Rescinding the Conscience Clause and forcing medical professionals to perform/assist in abortions or face losing their jobs?Yeah, he's a real uniter that one. Edited March 19, 2009 by Book_of_Mormon_Warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 When? Any examples? Any?Try reading The Audacity of Hope; he gives great examples there, including one on anti-crime legislation.My point being that the complete and utter lack of details coming out about this plan indicates that it is in the initial stages where they’re just tossing out ideas to get feedback on them. That is a practice long known to provide better results. It’s also an element of good leadership. Great leaders don’t have all the answers, they just know how to get to them with the help of other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 You raise a good point, Moe. I hadn't even bothered looking at the plan simply because I have little to no faith in any government taking care of their veterans. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 The good news is that it will probably be dead on arrival.....as quoted by some U.S. Senators...Democrat and Republican. That's bi-partisanship I can live with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Try reading The Audacity of Hope; he gives great examples there, including one on anti-crime legislation.My point being that the complete and utter lack of details coming out about this plan indicates that it is in the initial stages where they’re just tossing out ideas to get feedback on them. That is a practice long known to provide better results. It’s also an element of good leadership. Great leaders don’t have all the answers, they just know how to get to them with the help of other people. If you were a Vet who is or was injured and this affected you.....I bet you might have some different insight about this....ask a vet how they feel about it....or perhaps you are...I don't know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 If you were a Vet who is or was injured and this affected you.....I bet you might have some different insight about this....ask a vet how they feel about it....or perhaps you are...I don't know...MOE didn't say the plan was good. He didn't say he was in favor of it. He didn't say a word about veterans' benefits. All he said was that for those looking for examples of Obama's bipartisan efforts, they should read his book. I've read it, and it's the reason I voted for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 MOE didn't say the plan was good. He didn't say he was in favor of it. He didn't say a word about veterans' benefits. All he said was that for those looking for examples of Obama's bipartisan efforts, they should read his book. I've read it, and it's the reason I voted for him. I never said he mentioned the plan was good or bad.....all I said was....if he were a vet perhaps he might have some different insight .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes for TreatmentThis is just pathetic -- has any president ever proposed betraying the sacrifices of US military people with something like this? I agree with the American Legion leaders fully on this one. here is an article about it from the Wall Sreet Lournal opinion page...might find it interestingWill Obama Go AWOL on VA Health Benefits? - WSJ.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 As a vet (though non injured ) and a military spouse I agree it is a bad idea to try and save a buck off the injured vets. If he really wants to save money from the military spending my wife has a good idea. Stop providing scripts for OTC medications to military personal. 75-80% of the patients she sees gets a prescription or comes in for a refill on OTC medication from the Dr. The military waste a fortune on pseudphed, Zyrtec , and the ever popular Vitamin M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 if you had a national healthcare it wouldn't be an issue:) -Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 if you had a national healthcare it wouldn't be an issue:)-Charley you might be correct.....we also know that anytime the Gov't gets its hands in anything....it turns into something I cannot say on this forum....:) When you also have Nat Healthcare which has been debated and will become a hotter issue in the near future....I don't want higher taxes to pay for it....my opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowTheWhisp Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 if you had a national healthcare it wouldn't be an issue:)-CharleyExcept that the National Health Service in the UK is not a level playing field. It all depends on where you live whether you can get life saving drugs or not, and medicines are not free in England but free in Scotland. I take 5 lots of tablet, 2 eyedrops, 2 inhalers and a nasal spray all of which cost over £7 each here. There has even been talk here of charging for doctor consultations and people are already being billed by ambulance services. The concept of the NHS as free medical care from the cradle to the grave has long since gone, but we are still paying for it in National Insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 if you had a national healthcare it wouldn't be an issue:)-CharleyMaybe this is a topic for a new thread. How does healthcare work in the UK? What do you pay in taxes for it and is anyone exempt? What services are provided and what services are excluded? What is really really good about the program and what is really awful or needs improvement? Funky, maybe you could chime in as well...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 NHC systems are like any other social services project. 10% of the people carry (read pay) 90% of the cost of it. In CA 72% of the budget goes to Human and Social Services!!! I hate government. Yeah, it does bother me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 if you had a national healthcare it wouldn't be an issueUmm . . . the VA is a form of national health care for a select group of citizens. And from Obama's plan, it sounds like the VA is now looking for a bailout from the private sector. That doesn't exactly help the case for universal national health care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 If you were a Vet who is or was injured and this affected you.....I bet you might have some different insight about this....ask a vet how they feel about it....or perhaps you are...I don't know...I can't say I really have an opinion about this proposal as I've not heard any of the details. I've only heard what the American Legion has to say about it. And I hardly consider the American Legion to be an objective source on the matter. If the Legion's characterization is correct, then yes, I would probably be opposed. If there's more to the story than we know, then I might change my mind. It's really hard to make a decision without all of the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I know! I almost burst out laughing when I read that, but I didn't want to frighten the neighbors. Maybe it was...*Rescinding the Mexico City Policy and making our tax dollars pay for abortions around the world.?If only it were so simple. I'll refer you to this post that I wrote about the Mexico City Policy several months ago.Just two highlights...USAID cannot be used to pay for abortions, even with the Mexico City Policy rescinded. MCP forbade money to organizations who merely discussed abortion as an option. Again, the money could not be used to pay for the abortion anyway.Second, under the Mexico City Policy, more abortions were being performed than when the Policy was rescinded. So you can either talk about abortion and have fewer of them, or you can keep quiet and have more abortions.*Lifting the ban on federal funding of Embryonic Stem Cell research and making our tax payer dollars go towards creating and destroying a human life?You're likely to meet mixed results in your appeal to an lds group about the supposed immorality of stem-cell research. The Church has no position on the issue, and does not currently take the position that stem-cells can be equated with human life.Embryonic Stem-cell Research - LDS Newsroom*Rescinding the Conscience Clause and forcing medical professionals to perform/assist in abortions or face losing their jobs?Yeah, he's a real uniter that one. Yet another one-sided representation...Obama rescinded Bush's version of the rule, which was poorly written and exceptionally vague. I would agree that the consience rule should be rewritten, but Bush's version of the rule is probably worse than no rule at all. Check out what I had to say on this issue here.So thank you for demonstrating the problem with reactionary politics. It fails to comprehend the complexities of reality and usually makes matters worse than they were to begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 So thank you for demonstrating the problem with reactionary politics. It fails to comprehend the complexities of reality and usually makes matters worse than they were to begin. Wow, I haven't heard it put that way since my days at the University of Oregon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Wow, I haven't heard it put that way since my days at the University of Oregon. Fiannan? Are you aware that making an argument like what you're saying now is the lowest form of argument? It's when you say something that hints that the argument has already been made and it clearly was the superior one. In fact, I will state what argument you are basically making for those who do not know:"Moe? You are wrong. You remind me of all those liberals at the university I used to go to who were every bit as wrong as you. I don't know why you bother trying to look at the facts with an unbiased eye. What could you possibly learn from that, knowing that only conservative Republicanism is the only sustainable political thought?"There, Fiannan. You're welcome. I have now made vocal your point. If you have any disagreement with any particular part of what I'm saying, please point out where I was wrong about your statement and point out what you yourself believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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