Has there ever been a time other than now that women had rights

[solomon-helaman]

My wife asked me a great question this morning, and I thought I would pose it for all of you to ponder. "Was there ever a time other than now that women had rights?" It seemed that Eve had rights to her own opinon in the garden. I think this could be a good discussion about women's rights.

[talisyn]

Women have had various rights throughout history. I think this time is the only one where the majority of powerful nations allow any women regardless of circumstance of birth to hold high office. Last time I remember that happening was Empress Theodora of Constantinople, and she married into it. Ok, lets go with that. This time is one of the few times in human history women could hold political power without either being born into a powerful family or marrying into it.

[Guest missingsomething]

Well in the history of man? Sure, women have had rights. In some native american cultures the eldest most woman is the most reverred person in the tribe.

Gospel speaking? Since the pre-mortal existance. We have always been free to choose our path, to make decisions. It was only corrupted when we came here - by the powers of Satan. Think of this, we, lds, believe that we have a mother in heaven... our Heavenly Father would not supress women, because I believe that He respects her.

I am woman ... hear me ROAR

[GingerGolden]

Well in the history of man? Sure, women have had rights. In some native american cultures the eldest most woman is the most reverred person in the tribe.

It is my understanding from studying some of this that it is the women who decide whether or not the tribe went to war, that one of the reasons the white man was told they could not buy any of the land from a "man", because it was the females who owned the land or the tribe if they owned the land, although they actually didn't feel the land was theirs rather that they belonged to the land.

Of course, I don't know everything, but what I do remember makes a lot of sense and I respect it for what it is.

every tribe was different, I sure they vary from one to another in some way, and well to find out more about that subject you really do need to do some research into it.

But, yeah, this is not the first time women have had rights and respect for their deeds and opinions.

[solomon-helaman]

We have always been free to choose our path, to make decisions. It was only corrupted when we came here - by the powers of Satan.

It seems that Satan really attacked the rights of women during the middle ages. I think that Satan puts most of his efforts on breaking up the family, and the rights of women are right up there. This may be because women play such a huge part in the family. (I thank my wife for being a such a big help to our family.) So, maybe another question might be how is he attacking women's rights now?

[Book_of_Mormon_Warrior]

It seems that Satan really attacked the rights of women during the middle ages. I think that Satan puts most of his efforts on breaking up the family, and the rights of women are right up there. This may be because women play such a huge part in the family. (I thank my wife for being a such a big help to our family.) So, maybe another question might be how is he attacking women's rights now?

What has been breaking up families? Lack of women's rights? How so?

Since the women's lib movement divorce and broken homes have only skyrocketed. Thank you, Gloria Steinam and NOW.

[Book_of_Mormon_Warrior]

It seems that Satan really attacked the rights of women during the middle ages. I think that Satan puts most of his efforts on breaking up the family, and the rights of women are right up there. This may be because women play such a huge part in the family. (I thank my wife for being a such a big help to our family.) So, maybe another question might be how is he attacking women's rights now?

He is taking away women's rights by making it some type of bad thing to have children and be homemakers.

[Dravin]

I think it may be helpful to define rights here. I mean even in some cultures where we would say women have no rights they do have some at least to the degree that you couldn't sell them or what have you. So what are we talking about exactly? Being able to vote, own property? Not be divorced on a whim? Have abortions (most here I don't think would say its a right, the world at large (or at least parts of it) would however)? When we talk about women having rights, just what are we talking about?

[GingerGolden]

Speaking as a female, girl, woman...

My rights include being happy, helping others be happy, being safe from any harm, especially when I intend no harm, having the ability to use my voice as well as my ears and eyes and other facilities and so on...

My rights to protect myself and my children, as well as those of others from any intentional harm from others, for whatever reason if there were foreseeable hazards, harms and probable fatalities and so on...

My right to have what is mine, while fully understanding anyone's right to their own things, uses and properties. Whether it is mine by earning or by inheritances and especially when inheritances. And upon my passing, passed on to my heirs, either that which I have made known or as shared between them as is fitting them suitably and so on...

My right to good sense enough to choose what I do with my body as well as what I might allow someone else to do with it. My right is to know everything intended to me, which includes not being hoodwinked by someone who may be masquerading as decoy by either appearance, words or deeds and so on...

My right not to be mishandled in any way, whether physical, mental, physiological, emotional or spiritual.

My right to put a stop to anything that is unbalanced and harmful to my general all-over well-being and so on...

My right to vote not to vote if that is my choice as well as choosing which side of any political fence I am influenced by; if I so choose, the rights of vote are personal as well as civil and so on...

~Speaking of voting...

~* Glenn Close for President*~

BTW, since I'm new and ya'll don't know me, the above presidential nomination is my humor and when she runs, I'll vote for her. :)

Let's see...

My rights to have a peaceful home and so on...

(the so on... could fill a book or two...)

*edit

(The above are the rights I reserve, herewith & forever, with open ended cycles of sensibility as well as reservations and changes of mind which is the rights of all females throughout this world and the multitudes of worlds beyond)

Edited March 22, 2009 by GingerGolden
... Reserving Rights Amendments & So On ...

[foreverafter]

Very rarely, & only in small pockets of history & probably only in the city of Enoch, was the equal voice of women as men & her complete rights to & say over the children she bore & her protection to not be divorced at will or more wives added to the marriage without her consent, ever honored in the home, marriage & society.

But today for the 1st time in major society women in the western world enjoy close to her full rights, but still very few men respect them, even though today's laws try uphold women's rights. But men are again tearing down those protections of women's rights - with No-Fault divorce laws that allow men to abandon wives & children at will & laws that allow men who were not faithful & loving to their wives to take children away from a mothers full-time care & protection.

Many men still believe that men have the last say in the home & do not understand that the Heart of the Home presides with as much equality as the Head of the Home, if not to be even more respected for her sacrifices.

To see how women were almost universally treated throughout history, ones needs only to peek into many countries today where men still dominate women & rule, dictate & collect them, the same as they did for 6000 years.

But the real questions are: Why would women allow this to go on for so long? Why didn't they teach their sons to at least respect women? Why did God allow his sons to degrade his daughters for so long? Why did it take almost 6000 years for women to grow a back bone & gain some self-respect & self-worth & finally put an end to the disrespect & domination?

Edited March 21, 2009 by foreverafter

[Elgama]

women have had rights over various times in history, and in some tribal communities have more rights than men. In many cultures lineage has gone down a matriachal line because you always know who the Mother is but you can never be 100% on the Father.

Women in early medieval England didn't do too badly until the Norman Invasion and a different view of Christianity

-Charley

[Snow]

My wife asked me a great question this morning, and I thought I would pose it for all of you to ponder. "Was there ever a time other than now that women had rights?" It seemed that Eve had rights to her own opinon in the garden. I think this could be a good discussion about women's rights.

Is that a serious question? Does anyone really wonder if prior to nowadays whether or not women had rights? I think not. This must be a set up for some type of joke.

On the off chance that you or your wife really are serious (which is too hard to believe) - let me ask you if you believe that in 1909, or 1809, or 1709 or 1609 (etc), a person could murder a woman with no consequences - that is, women did not have the right to not be murdered?

[GingerGolden]

*snip* that is, women did not have the right to not be murdered?

I most definitively reserve my right not to be murdered and so on...

Edited March 22, 2009 by GingerGolden

[Elgama]

On the off chance that you or your wife really are serious (which is too hard to believe) - let me ask you if you believe that in 1909, or 1809, or 1709 or 1609 (etc), a person could murder a woman with no consequences - that is, women did not have the right to not be murdered?

given as murder is unlawful killing that does not include swimming of witches etc^_^

Having said that men during the same time did not have the same rights they do now either - the split was influential/wealthy - uneducated and poor

-Charley

[foreverafter]

The more righteous men become the higher they hold women & the more they fully submit their lives to her by serving her every wish, & protecting her from all pain, harm & stress, especially from himself & put her happiness & desires before all else, even his own.

[Snow]

given as murder is unlawful killing that does not include swimming of witches etc^_^

-Charley

That is "A" definition of murder.

There is more than one definition of murder - beyond it being illegal. It also means "to kill brutally or inhumanly."

Women had various rights all throughout history all over the world. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. In ancient Egypt women had the right to keep inherited property, even when married, to share wealth with both partners when acquired during marriage, to conduct business, to sell property, to be a witness in court, to adopt, to be in public, to seek employment, etc.

Women in Utah have been voting since 1893. I have no idea what the OP is up to.

[foreverafter]

As long as women have anything less than equal rights with men in the home & society, it really doesn't matter much, the feeling of domination & bondage is the same. God intended that his daughters be given every right & blessing that his sons are.

Edited March 21, 2009 by foreverafter

[Snow]

As long as women have anything less than equal rights with men in the home & society, it really doesn't matter much, the feeling of domination & bondage is the same. God intended that his daughters be given every right & blessing that his sons are.

Could I get some proof that God intends his daughters the right and blessing of being ordained into the priesthood?

[foreverafter]

Could I get some proof that God intends his daughters the right and blessing of being ordained into the priesthood?

BY spoke of women's priesthood & in the temple this is also proven & Elder Cowley & Sister Sheri Dew have spoken in GConf. about how women are ordained in the pre-existence & come into this life already with the power & authority of God, equal to or the same as that which men must receive here in this life, if they are worthy. Worthy men must receive the Priesthood here in this life, to have an equal authority & power as women are born with, so they can also become"Saviors of Men" as righteous women are. Even though women are born with this power, I believe they can lose it as men can, if they are not righteous & they don't have to be LDS to be righteous, if they don't know about the Church fully.

Joseph Fielding Smith taught that the Lord offers his daughters every gift & blessing that he offers his sons. See JFS, CR Apr. 1970, 58-60.

Truth comes in pieces, as you get a quote here & a scripture there you start putting it all together & then can eventually see the whole picture.

Edited March 21, 2009 by foreverafter

[Snow]

BY spoke of women's priesthood & Elder Cowley & Sister Sheri Dew have spoken in GConf. about how women are ordained in the pre-existence & come into this life already with the power & authority of God, equal to or the same as that which men must receive here in this life, if they are worthy. Worthy men must receive the Priesthood here in this life, to have the same authority & power as women are born with, so they can also become"Saviors of Men" as righteous women are.

Joseph Fielding Smith taught that the Lord offers his daughters every gift & blessing that he offers his sons. See JFS, CR Apr. 1970, 58-60.

Truth comes in pieces, as you get a quote here & a scripture there you start putting it all together & then can eventually see the whole picture.

Let's see if that is true:

Can women baptize anyone into the Church?

Confirm anyone?

Ordain anyone to the priesthood?

Be Bishop?

Be Stake President?

Be a GA?

Dedicate a temple?

Govern the Church outside the direct supervision of men?

It's all well and good to say that JFS said that women have every gift and blessing that men have but when you actually check, obviously that is not so - not unless you, as a forgone conclusion, believe that all the things that men have that women do not have are not blessing and gifts.

[foreverafter]

Women & Men use their equal authority & power for different things & sometimes for the same things, like couples presiding overy their family & blessings of healing, etc. We must remember that the Church is an earthly institution which men are asked to run for the most part here on earth, the family & parents will be the only ruling institution throughout eternity, & a husband & wife will rule equally together over their children & worlds. Heavenly Father knows women could preside very effectively in the Church leadership, the Relief Society alone has shone that, but he has asked women to use their power & influence in a more vital place.

God has given women the highest of all callings that anyone can hold on earth, Motherhood, (higher than any other Priesthood calling) & asked women to focus on & watch over & use her power with a more eternal & vital area "the Home & giving children life & nurturing those lives" & keep home a safe & spiritual place - equal to the temple. That's a pretty huge calling, no woman would ask for more to do in the Church & neglect her more critical calling.

Edited March 21, 2009 by foreverafter

[Dravin]

My rights include being happy

There is no right to be happy though, the Declaration of Independance talks about the pursuit of happiness but if I'm miserable for various reason I'm not being denied a right. Additionally, one can have no legal rights and still be happy. Or is this some philsophical right to be happy (I can be happy no matter what), in which case I'm note sure this is some much a right as a reality*, nobody has control of your emotions but yourself.

*Kind like the right to be affected by gravity.

My right is to know everything intended to me, which includes not being hoodwinked by someone who may be masquerading as decoy by either appearance, words or deeds and so on...

There is no right not to be deceived though. Some of Nephites tactics were quite deceptive, I'm not sure I'd say they was denying the invading Lamanites their right not to be deceived. Yes one could argue that the invading Lamanites were denying the Nephites rights (or at least trying to), but as a society we seem to accept the fact that just because somebody tries to (or does) deny another rights that all their rights don't go down the toilet with the attempt.

My right to put a stop to anything that is unbalanced and harmful to my general all-over well-being and so on...

The above is tricky, exspecially when we consider at least in western cultures the concept of freedom of expression, some people when told they are wrong on various subject I'd say suffer in the well being department (or even if you just tell somebody you think they are ugly, or yes that dress makes you look fat, which may go against your emotional abuse statement depending on how far you want to take it). Additionally, does this mean you have a right to prevent me from operating a car because it pollutes the air and thus effects you general well being?

My right to vote not to vote if that is my choice as well as choosing which side of any political fence I am influenced by; if I so choose, the rights of vote are personal as well as civil and so on...

This one I can agree with.

My rights to have a peaceful home and so on...

If your teenagers bicker are they denying you a right? Or do you mean peaceful in a more physical sense, but if your kids fight (physically) are they denying you a right? I suppose we may be on the divide of legal rights (the law says I have a right to X or do X) versus a more philsophical approach of, "Everyone should be able to do this." or "This is the way things should be."

But today for the 1st time in major society women in the western world enjoy close to her full rights, but still very few men respect them, even though today's laws try uphold women's rights.

Cite? Or is this a generally people aren't respectful of one another, ergo women aren't being respected? Also, there is no right to be respected. Some atheists I've run into wouldn't respect me because I believe in God, they aren't trampling on any rights I have.

Why did God allow his sons to degrade his daughters for so long?

Agency, same reason murder has been around since Cain.

Is that a serious question? Does anyone really wonder if prior to nowadays whether or not women had rights? I think not. This must be a set up for some type of joke.

While you are correct, heck cats have rights, in some places if I tortured my cat for kicks I'd get in trouble, but I think there is an assumed unspoken "equal" inherent in the question.

To be fair I was really, really, really tempted to make that kind of comment myself.

Could I get some proof that God intends his daughters the right and blessing of being ordained into the priesthood?

Or that men will one day have the blessings of Motherhood. Unless the blessing and rights being talked about is Eternal Life, then yeah, both sexes can enjoy that.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Dravin
Tweaking for clarity

[foreverafter]

Or that men will one day have the blessings of Motherhood. Unless the blessing and rights being talked about is Eternal Life, then yeah, both sexes can enjoy that.

It doesn't seem that men will ever have the right & blessing of bearing children that women have received. That seems to be a blessing women received in the pre-existence because of their righteousness & strength. Just like not everyone will have the highest calling of being a Savior, only Christ received that because he was perfect. Likewise only women were apparently worthy of performing the Christ-like calling of bearing children in this life. But it does seem that men will eventually be able to nurse their children, it has been done, they do have the ability though dorment. =)

[Faded]

It is my strongly-felt opinion that the onset of women's rights is the return to the natural order of things, as they were prior to the fall. I feel that the entire women's rights movements throughout the world are the beginning of what God intended and we should expect it to continue on into the Millennium.

Why were women oppressed throughout history? Certainly not because God wanted it that way. They've certainly had a tough time of it throughout history. Modern times and modern technology are equaling things out.

[Snow]

Women & Men use their equal authority & power for different things & sometimes for the same things, like couples presiding overy their family & blessings of healing, etc. We must remember that the Church is an earthly institution which men are asked to run for the most part here on earth, the family & parents will be the only ruling institution throughout eternity, & a husband & wife will rule equally together over their children & worlds. Heavenly Father knows women could preside very effectively in the Church leadership, the Relief Society alone has shone that, but he has asked women to use their power & influence in a more vital place.

God has given women the highest of all callings that anyone can hold on earth, Motherhood, (higher than any other Priesthood calling) & asked women to focus on & watch over & use her power with a more eternal & vital area "the Home & giving children life & nurturing those lives" & keep home a safe & spiritual place - equal to the temple. That's a pretty huge calling, no woman would ask for more to do in the Church & neglect her more critical calling.

No one said that women weren't important. You, however claimed that they had the same blessings and rights... which is obviously untrue.

As to whether motherhood is the highest of all callings???? Anyone (fertile female) can be a mother - good or bad, smart or dumb, honest or a criminal, gay or straight. One is not "called' to be a mother. One chooses to be a mother. There is a coke-head in my neighborhood that is a mother.

On the other hand, among the worlds billions of inhabitants, only one is called as the Prophet and President. It is ludicrous to speak of motherhood as a higher calling. Many aren't called at all - they just sleep around.

Don't get me wrong. I didn't say motherhood is not important or essential or that it can't be noble and inspiring but hyperbole and wishful thinking doesn't change reality.