The Veil


pam
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Okay I have a question. I know I know I've been a member all my life but that doesn't mean I know everything.

This has come up since my father passed a way a few days ago. I know we can't remember the preexistence. But when someone passes, is there also a veil there to where they can't remember their life on earth? I honestly can't remember any teachings on this.

Please don't think me totally ignorant..it's just something that came to mind tonight.

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I can't remember learning anything about this. My assumption has always been there is no veil placed over the mind of someone who passes on from this earth life, but that the veil in place keeping us from remembering our pre-mortal existence stays intact for a while longer (until sometime after the Judgment, I think).

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I've heard quite a few stories about the dead appearing to the living in the temples and in visions, especially to relatives. Such as what the book "Temple Manifestations" describes. So, from that respect I would have to say that there is no veil after this life.

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I don't think the Veil goes both ways.

18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.

EDIT: ...I'm going to miss having the scriptures.lds.org text search on my mission. :(

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I've never been taught that it goes both ways. In addition to the verses that LittleWyvern posted above, I was also thinking of the ones where we are taught that the same sociality exists there that does here. That also makes me think that we will remember earth life.

Additionally, we do know of people who have received visits from loved ones who have passed on. How would this happen if the deceased could not remember us?

Finally, what would be the point? Here, we have a veil so that we can be tested in our faith and obedience. We kept our first estate and chose to come to earth. It wouldn't be a test for us if we remembered everything from before. After this life, when we've pretty much already had our chance, what would be the purpose of a veil?

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i personally know someone that had cancer and was struggling with what would happen to her young children if she died. she was visited by a relative, that had gone on before, for the express purpose of reassuring her that even if she died she would know and see her children grow up.

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The veil conceals our pre-existence memories. Earth Life memories are yours to keep, without them we cannot be judged.

To have your pre-existence memories restored you must pass thru the veil alluded to in the Temple Ceremony.

I was taught by my wedding officiator that the sealing ordinance is like a beacon. So if you are sealed to your Father, when you pass you will be able to feel his presence, and find him.

Condolences,

Mikbone

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Personally, I do think there is some type of veil, but it is more of a veil that involves physical sight.

Not everyone can see those who have passed on. Or maybe they can't see spirits until that particular spirit has a mission or desire to contact the living for some reason or another.

If you are asking will your dad not know you or forget you, then my answer is no, he will not forget you and he will always know who you are.

You are his child, he loves you still and he knows you.

I guess since I've always been able to see, hear, talk to and smell some spirits for whatever reason, it comes natural.

Actually, the last two vehicles I have purchased, I asked my brother on the other side to help me and I do believe he did. The reason for this is that he was an excellent mechanic, I know I can/could always count on him to steer me right. I had no one else to ask to help me, you know to check all those things guys know to check when searching for a good working vehicle. I asked his help to watch out for me and help me find just the right one and I believe with all my heart he has done so (actually I know with all my heart and mind he did help me), although he's been gone for too many years now.

Therefore, what I am saying is that we can still talk with them. Whether we can see them or not. They know us, they love us and they do watch out for us when we need them too.

Edited by GingerGolden
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Okay I have a question. I know I know I've been a member all my life but that doesn't mean I know everything.

This has come up since my father passed a way a few days ago. I know we can't remember the preexistence. But when someone passes, is there also a veil there to where they can't remember their life on earth? I honestly can't remember any teachings on this.

Please don't think me totally ignorant..it's just something that came to mind tonight.

We can remember our past, as they who crossed the veil will come to remembrance of the mortal experiences. We do take them with us.

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Therefore, what I am saying is that we can still talk with them. Whether we can see them or not. They know us, they love us and they do watch out for us when we need them too.

I think this is what I am most interested in. I was told by many well meaning people that my dad would be watching out for me from above. I've heard numerous other people told this when their loved ones passed away. I find myself talking to my dad, asking for his advise as if he is still here. I suppose this is all natural and part of the grieving process. To still feel that we are still connected in some way.

I think I'm having one of my moments. I miss him so terribly as it hasn't even been 2 weeks since his passing. He was one of the finest men I shall ever know. I apologize if this sounds like a "Pity pam party." Not what I intended. I truly wanted to find out what others thought on the subject.

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Not all will be allowed to visit those who are living in mortality. We need to be careful on whom are allowed and whom are not.

Oh, I most definitely agree with that!

But since we are speaking of her father, I do think for her, he'd be one to allow.

Yes, Pam it is part of the grieving process, but I do think that as time goes by, a lot of people forget that their loved ones are so close. (of course, I also think those that have passed on do have things they need to attend to as well.)

I don't think there is anything wrong with continuing conversations with your dad is wrong.

I tell my father and brother even some of my other relatives as well, such as my grandparents, I miss them and love them all the time. Most people might think this strange, but I think it's natural.

Just because we may not be able to see them any more does not mean that they don't come to visit or think of us ever again.

I believe they do.

For instance, while closing my eyes and telling my father I love him and I miss him, I can feel his love for me as well. Same for my brother, same for my grandparents.

I do believe if someone else does the same thing they will feel it as well.

And I do not go about calling strangers into my field, but there are some who have shown up of their own accord, but these generally have some type of soul soothing message to offer. The are generally an "it'll be alright" kind of message.

(of course, all of this is based on my personal experiences and not much more I suppose unless you study the subject.)

Edited by GingerGolden
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Just minutes after he passed, I was sitting in a chair next to his hospital bed holding and rubbing his hand. I said "Dad I know you can't hear this but I love you so much." My mom replied "yes he can Pam..he can hear you..he is probably just right here." She waved her hand in the air.

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Just minutes after he passed, I was sitting in a chair next to his hospital bed holding and rubbing his hand. I said "Dad I know you can't hear this but I love you so much." My mom replied "yes he can Pam..he can hear you..he is probably just right here." She waved her hand in the air.

I agree with your mother wholeheartedly!

He can hear you!

(if you listen well, you may be able to hear him if he answers you)

Just a story of my sister in law.

She 21 years old one of the best swimmers around here.

She hit a deer coming home one night, close to a bridge.

The impact of the deer on her small Toyota pitched her into the on coming lane and into the bridge railing and then into the shallow creek below.

She had hit her head very hard on the steering wheel, she was confused.

Rather than opening the window the rest of the way or trying to get the door open, she turned the ignition key, the key and ring of metal were twisted severely.

She drown in water that she could have stood up in, no more than about chest high to her.

This was on her oldest 6th birthday.

The whole family was terribly distraught.

I was the one who had to clean up her house and go through her things, because her mother and sister could not do it, nor was my brother able to do this. I felt very strange having to do this for her, but I did it.

I felt of course, sadness since I loved her too and she was gone so very young. But I also felt her around me and I felt love.

After finishing, I was outside by myself, in the woods, which we live in the woods.

I was crying, since what I'd had to do was something very heart touching.

And when I got through crying, I said out loud, like I always do when I'm talking to those I love who have passed on.

"I love you Barbara"

And as I got that out of my mouth, out in the middle of the woods, I heard her voice say to me.

"I love you too"

And it made me feel so much better...

Edited by GingerGolden
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I've also heard that those who have passed on can comfort their families and others with feelings of the spirit.

My friend read a book about this; and in the book this woman's husband was in a coma and there wasn't much optimism for recovery. They waited and waited with no changes... until finally he awoke from the coma. It was a miracle. One day after he was out of the hospital, the woman tells her husband that she KNEW he would recover, and that a few days before while she was driving she received the most comforting reassurance from the Spirit that he would recover. He paused for a moment, and said when you received this message from the Spirit, it was at this "specific time" and you were driving on this "specific street", right? Confused and teary eyed she said yes - and he replied that that was him telling him he loves her and reassuring her that he will make a full recovery while he was in the spirit world.

Many of you may have read this book, it is a true story, not fiction.

So Pam, I believe that your family members who have passed on will be able to still communicate with you, but in a different way.

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I love teaching the Gospel Principles class - it's wonderful to have all these answers constantly refreshed in my mind.

From Chapter 45 - the Postmortal Spirit World

In a funeral sermon, Joseph Smith declared that the spirits of righteous people who have died “are not far from us, and know and understand our thoughts, feelings, and motions, and are often pained therewith” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 326). Other latter-day prophets have made similar statements. President Ezra Taft Benson said: “Sometimes the veil between this life and the life beyond becomes very thin. Our loved ones who have passed on are not far from us” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1971, p. 18; or Ensign, June 1971, p. 33). President Brigham Young said: “Where is the spirit world? It is right here” (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 376).

[...]

Spirits carry with them from earth their attitudes of devotion or antagonism toward things of righteousness (see Alma 34:34). They have the same appetites and desires that they had when they lived on earth.

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Just minutes after he passed, I was sitting in a chair next to his hospital bed holding and rubbing his hand. I said "Dad I know you can't hear this but I love you so much." My mom replied "yes he can Pam..he can hear you..he is probably just right here." She waved her hand in the air.

Yes...at the moment of death, I am a firm believer he was still there with others that he is familiar with.

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Hi,

Not that this was your origianl question, the veil is not removed from the preexistence at death. In other words at mortal (temporal) death one cannot remmber the preexistence. (until later even if the person goes to pardise).

Also, the veil only applies to our six senses, not to our spiritual senses. That means our spirit still remembers and can hint to us what there is beyond.

If we read Alma 34:32-34 we read that the same spirit that posseses our body in this life has power to posses our body in that that eternal realm and that we will not change and think 'God will beat us with a few stripes and we will be saved in the kingdom of God'. Therefore, that is scriptural evidence that the veil remains in place until sometime before the judgment, or may afterwards.

Lastly, the veil is porportionately as thick as we are to it. In other words as we become closer to the Spirit and Chirst we get closer to the veil and so it 'seems' thinner. As we rebel, disobey, and rely on the natural man we are further away so the veil to us is 'thicker' or harder to penetrate.

I hope this helps.

Abraham

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Also, the veil only applies to our six senses, not to our spiritual senses. That means our spirit still remembers and can hint to us what there is beyond.

I don't get this. When my spirit hints something to me, exactly what part of me is it hinting to? Is not the living thinking intelligence-holding reasoning part of me the same thing as my spirit?

I didn't think I was schizophrenic or suffering from dissociative identity disorder....

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