GingerGolden Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Hi, yesterday evening I was talking with a friend and something she said made me feel to go get an extra copy of the Book of Morman to give to her.She was talking about the things she had learned in the past 30 years or so, and mentioned me as one of the names of the persons that she contributes to have taught her something over the years, something that helped her realize things and grow as a person.I brought the book out to her and told her if she really wanted to learn something that was enlightening, that she should read this book.We talked back and forth for a bit, I tried to explain to her how some of those people who were getting away from the tower of Babel had come here to America, that it was full of history, some she may not even realize right now.She told me she was strictly a [insert strict old tyme religion here, but one which sits, rather than runs around babbling and starts with an M rather than a B] and that she didn't need anything more than the bible.I told her the it wasn't a replacement, it was another testament of Christ.She brought up pologymy, which I addressed as well (thank goodness for the thread here and the replies from many of you).I was trying to explain to her that this book came from golden plates that were found buried in a hillside, shown to the man who found them by an angel and that he had like a 3 grade education from the 1800's.As I explained all her excuses, she pulled a new one on me.She began beating her fist on the counter and says to me."You have been trying to get me to read this book for at least 25 years. The Mormans came from Europe!"I looked at her strangely, wondering where in the world she came up with that one, since I have never heard anyone else ever say something like that and well, I know it's not true. I asked her, "Do you mean that Joseph Smith's ancestors came from Europe?"She says, "No, the Mormans, the Morman religion came from somewhere in Europe crossing the ocean and into the United States!"To this, I said, "Hmmmm, well I will have to ask about this one."So, here I am...Anyone know what in the world she is talking about, or where she may have come up with such a thought or idea?Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanutgallery Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I would try to find out more of what she means. There were many converts who came from Europe to live closer to the Saints, but the church was founded in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Maybe she is referring to Emanual Swedenborg. He was an Brit who in the 1700s was visited by angels and told to reform Christianity. He rejected the trinity, taught salvation come not only through faith but through our works, that marriage is eternal, 3 kingdoms of heaven, the top one being the celestial kingdom, and them corresponding to the sun, moon and stars. Some suggest Joseph took many of his teachings from book Heaven and Hell authored by Swedenborg. This could be what they are referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Mormans? Who are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Mormans? Who are they?The opposite of Morwomans duh:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie123 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Mormans? Who are they?People from Mormandy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Mormans? Who are they? You always were one to catch the small stuff. Kind of like also catching February 30th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Very early on in the church, we had great sucess with our missionary program going on in Europe. Life stank for a lot of people in England, and they were more than happy to find a message of hope and truth that involved them ditching their old lives and getting on a boat. People were getting converted by the boatload and heading to America, while we were getting kicked around from state to state. A lot of early mormons were not only new converts, but new converts that had recently immigrated. Maybe that's what she was talking about. If so, I fail to see how it addresses the truth claims of the BoM. LM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 There's one story I read about in Parley P. Pratt's autobiography, about a traveling preacher from Europe that Pratt contended with in Canada (at least, I think it was Canada). This preacher claimed to be a representative of the restored church of God replete with a Quorum of the 12 Apostles and everything. However, he was preaching a false gospel and, in the end, was exposed as an impostor by Pratt. Maybe your friend heard this story? I wish I knew more about it, but I can't even tell you the page number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I agree with hordak. She is probably confusing Swedenborgism with Mormonism. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 She says, "No, the Mormans, the Morman religion came from somewhere in Europe crossing the ocean and into the United States!" Easy mistake - The Normans came from Viking country via a few hundred years in France. These Normans crossed the English Channel to invade England. They chose to do this in 1066 rather than 1830, due to the efficiency of their travel agency.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 "You have been trying to get me to read this book for at least 25 years. The Mormans came from Europe!"What does that have to do with anything? Is her yard for the truth of religion wether it started in America? If so I assume she's all for native american spirit worship.Also, since you are saying starts with M and the only M religions I can think of (aided by the internet and limited to protestants) are:Methodists: EnglandMennonites: SwitzerlandMoravians: Germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havejoy Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Maybe he's been told of Nephi and his family coming to America from Jerusalem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerGolden Posted April 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 (edited) I wish there was a laugh button...Ok, Darvin, #1 is the answer.Hordak, Emanual Swedenborg is a good answer I think, but not sure, makes sense to me, if that is what she has heard.Loudmouth_Mormon & Maxel, both of your replies makes sense to me as well.havejoy, I was trying to tell her a condensed story of your example, when she went off about polygamy. I'm not sure where she got that idea and she knows me well enough to know that the fist banging would be intimidating, but the comment really did throw me.I've had Baptist preachers and Catholic priests backed-up (in their own houses of worship, I didn't start it, they did) with being able to sensibly counter their words with things I know to be true, even leave them standing with their mouth open and not being able to come up with a comment, because I knew what they meant by what they were saying or I could relate it to something I've learned while studying the scriptures and Institute class, but this comment from her just threw me a wild curve and since I've never heard such, though I know it isn't true, I just didn't know what else to say to her except I'd ask about it.I figure if I can find some type of basis for the comment, maybe I would know what to say to her to move on to her next excuse...Thanks ya'll! Edited April 9, 2009 by GingerGolden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Well, Nephi saw in vision that Columbus and the Pilgrims would come to America from Europe and be blessed in founding a righteous land. Perhaps this is where her mistake comes from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 It sounds like she got the Nephi story a bit mixed up. This happens a lot when people hear bits and pieces, and try to piece it all togehter. Just explain, and maybe have her read only 1 Nephi, and then talk to her about the story. That might be easier for her than having to read the whole book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisyn Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 (edited) Maybe she is referring to Emanual Swedenborg.He was an Brit who in the 1700s was visited by angels and told to reform Christianity.He rejected the trinity, taught salvation come not only through faith but through our works, that marriage is eternal, 3 kingdoms of heaven, the top one being the celestial kingdom, and them corresponding to the sun, moon and stars.Some suggest Joseph took many of his teachings from book Heaven and Hell authored by Swedenborg.This could be what they are referring to.Wow never heard of them. Can you imagine what life would be like if the Restoration happened in the 1700s instead of the 1800s? The saints could have very easily founded their own nation of Zion, then there would have probably been a war with the USA around 1830ish...Bro. Joseph would still have been a prophet...cool stuff!Everything would probably be the same, 'cept the antimo's would have a whole century more to hate us Edited April 9, 2009 by talisyn speculation is fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Easy mistake - The Normans came from Viking country via a few hundred years in France. These Normans crossed the English Channel to invade England. They chose to do this in 1066 rather than 1830, due to the efficiency of their travel agency.:) Moksha, I noticed that you forgot to include Norman Mailer (who wrote a book set in Utah), Norman Vincent Peale (who was a religious leader and author), or Norman Rockwell (whose paintings bear an eerie resemblance to this Mormon life in the 21st Century). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 i did a little research, and I wonder if she got mormons mixed up with the Icarians who were a utopian society from France who settled at least partly in Nauvoo after the Mormons left. Maybe, when people visit Nauvoo, they get the groups mixed up.Icarians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerGolden Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 i did a little research, and I wonder if she got mormons mixed up with the Icarians who were a utopian society from France who settled at least partly in Nauvoo after the Mormons left. Maybe, when people visit Nauvoo, they get the groups mixed up.Icarians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaWow Byte, I'm impressed.This is more the time frame than the others.And something I had no knowledge of, I thought the Icarians were Mexican Indians, when I first read the name.Thanks!MokshaMoksha*raises eyebrow*Wow, Moksha I knew you were funny, but I didn't know you talk to yourself online.Ha ha, that is funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 It reminds me of when the movie Witness subtitled the translation of "Amish" as "Mormon" in some languages, and got everyone confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerGolden Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 It reminds me of when the movie Witness subtitled the translation of "Amish" as "Mormon" in some languages, and got everyone confused.That is funny too!I guess misconceptions about all things can be sort of like a gossip circle game that children play in English class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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