Is America Becoming Socialist? I Think Not.

[Elphaba]

Is America Becoming Socialist?

Bruce Watson

Daily Finance

April 10, 2009

In an attention-grabbing headline, Rasmussen Reports recently announced that only 53 percent of Americans believe that Capitalism is better than Socialism. Apparently, 80 percent of investors allegedly root for Capitalism, as do more than 90 percent of Republicans, while a whopping 30 percent of Democrats apparently prefer Socialism.

Do these survey results, following close on the heels of the passage of the Obama Administration's massive fiscal stimulus and industry bailout package, herald the end of Capitalism? I think not.

. . . .

The biggest myth that needs to be dissolved is this notion that Capitalism and Socialism are absolutes. Admittedly, pure Ayn Rand-style Capitalism and full-bore, Marxian state-led economic planning can never be reconciled. In reality, numerous things that Americans take for granted are, effectively, intrusions into the free market economy.

Even beyond Social Security, the FDIC, and other bugaboos, programs as true-blue as the Space program, the military, and the FDA represent very real manipulations of the economy, industry, and even individual citizens.

After all, when the government enlists a soldier, it must clothe, feed, shelter, pay, train, and transport him or her.

Each of these actions sets into motion a series of government contracts, which then lead to hirings and firings, purchases and construction, and an ever-increasing web of interactions. Some segments of the economy see an influx of cash and others are allowed to wither. Either way, the economy is manipulated.

. . . .

In truth, however, neither the bailout, nor the stimulus program, nor even the New New Deal, or whatever Obama will end up calling it, heralds the end of Capitalism. Actually, the stimulus plan is designed to recharge the market. By developing a smart grid, improving infrastructure and investing in education, it will, hopefully, provide the conditions necessary for the market's next period of growth.

The ultimate irony will be if today's Socialist stimulus proves tomorrow's Capitalist salvation. (emphasis mine)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's my goal to keep up with Bytor.

Elphaba

PS: I added paragraph breaks to make this more readable.

[Just_A_Guy]

Well, capitalism saved socialism in China. About time socialism returned the favor, yes? :)

[FutureCoastGuardsmen]

The ultimate irony will be if today's Socialist stimulus proves tomorrow's Capitalist salvation.

Well, how exactly does it do that I'm just wondering?

[trulykiwi]

Well, how exactly does it do that I'm just wondering?

Seems like a guise to me....and I know you think I am crazy for saying this, but with OPEC going bankrupt, Russia predicted to be an iron curtain again soon, and in 6-12 months the collapse of the US dollar and many other things, I think it won't matter because you will be going down to the grocery store with a wheelbarrow of paper money just to buy a loaf of bread when all this happens.

Make sure your store cupboards full is all I can say.

[Dravin]

Depending on how you define socialism American has become more socialist as time goes by (Anti-Trust legislation and the like, bank regulation, ect) so I'd say America is becoming more socialist and has been for a long time.

Are we at the cusp of being the USSR or even Sweden? No.

Is the trend a bad thing? I leave that up to the reader.

[LittleWyvern]

Even if this attempted economic rescue is a shift toward "socialism lite," I doubt it will be lasting. Remember the Conservative Coalition after the New Deal? It was more of a realization that many of the New Deal programs were no longer needed, and so were dissolved.

[Just_A_Guy]

But the damage to our national character remained, and is now being exacerbated as Americans of every social class look to our current government to erase the consequences of their own stupidity.

[LittleWyvern]

But the damage to our national character remained, and is now being exacerbated as Americans of every social class look to our current government to erase the consequences of their own stupidity.

You say that as if everything bad that happens to a person is because of their own stupidity. I think it's more accurate to say that people are looking more to the government to solve perceived social problems.

[Just_A_Guy]

You say that as if everything bad that happens to a person is because of their own stupidity. I think it's more accurate to say that people are looking more to the government to solve perceived social problems.

I could as easily say that you speak as if there's no correlation between cause and effect.

The truth, of course, lies somewhere in the middle. But I think it's accurate to say that there are a heck of a lot of people who don't want to admit that they were overextended, or invested unwisely, or are now reaping the consequences of poor decisions (regarding education, family planning, and/or a host of other issues) made years or decades ago. Those were the individuals to whom my remarks were addressed.

Right now there's plenty of blame and envy going around, and a marked dearth of introspection. Government can't solve stupid and impulsive, and it should not mug the smart and the careful in an attempt to do so.

[jadams_4040]

Is America Becoming Socialist?

Bruce Watson

Daily Finance

April 10, 2009

In an attention-grabbing headline, Rasmussen Reports recently announced that only 53 percent of Americans believe that Capitalism is better than Socialism. Apparently, 80 percent of investors allegedly root for Capitalism, as do more than 90 percent of Republicans, while a whopping 30 percent of Democrats apparently prefer Socialism.

Do these survey results, following close on the heels of the passage of the Obama Administration's massive fiscal stimulus and industry bailout package, herald the end of Capitalism? I think not.

. . . .

The biggest myth that needs to be dissolved is this notion that Capitalism and Socialism are absolutes. Admittedly, pure Ayn Rand-style Capitalism and full-bore, Marxian state-led economic planning can never be reconciled. In reality, numerous things that Americans take for granted are, effectively, intrusions into the free market economy.

Even beyond Social Security, the FDIC, and other bugaboos, programs as true-blue as the Space program, the military, and the FDA represent very real manipulations of the economy, industry, and even individual citizens.

After all, when the government enlists a soldier, it must clothe, feed, shelter, pay, train, and transport him or her.

Each of these actions sets into motion a series of government contracts, which then lead to hirings and firings, purchases and construction, and an ever-increasing web of interactions. Some segments of the economy see an influx of cash and others are allowed to wither. Either way, the economy is manipulated.

. . . .

In truth, however, neither the bailout, nor the stimulus program, nor even the New New Deal, or whatever Obama will end up calling it, heralds the end of Capitalism. Actually, the stimulus plan is designed to recharge the market. By developing a smart grid, improving infrastructure and investing in education, it will, hopefully, provide the conditions necessary for the market's next period of growth.

The ultimate irony will be if today's Socialist stimulus proves tomorrow's Capitalist salvation. (emphasis mine)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's my goal to keep up with Bytor.

Elphaba

PS: I added paragraph breaks to make this more readable.

Excatly true! what some feel the need to brand "socialism" is excatly the opposite; This country is in trouble because too many at the top were taking too much from the very people whom make their wealth possible;

Have not they ever heard the phrase; "Too many chiefs and not enough indians" ?:)

[Just_A_Guy]

Excatly true! what some feel the need to brand "socialism" is excatly the opposite; This country is in trouble because too many at the top were taking too much from the very people whom make their wealth possible;

Have not they ever heard the phrase; "Too many chiefs and not enough indians" ?:)

Umm . . . the trouble was that the wealth of the chiefs was all on paper, built primarily on IOUs from the indians. And the indians suddenly upped and decided they wouldn't/couldn't pay on those IOUs.

[Islander]

Greed, unreasonable and unsustainable lending/borrowing, unrealistic exuberance and arrogance is what precipitated this crisis. There is enough blaming to go around in every quarter.

[bytor2112]

Excatly true! what some feel the need to brand "socialism" is excatly the opposite; This country is in trouble because too many at the top were taking too much from the very people whom make their wealth possible;

Have not they ever heard the phrase; "Too many chiefs and not enough indians" ?:)

Exactly. Now, if if we could only get the government to stop taking so much from the people who work to provide for those who sit and whine and wait for Uncle Sam.

[bytor2112]

I don't know if we are becoming socialist or not. If by socialism you mean, a lot of well intentioned government programs that do very little, except keep people dependent on the government dole.....then yes.

I think we are certainly going down a dangerous road with our spending......Bush was a big spending liberal and Obama is nothing more than Bush on steroids. Obama saw opportunity to capitalize on the fears of ignorant Americans and funded the Democratic party wish list of the last 25 years. The economic distress that we are facing would have ended through normal market forces.

When the next bubble occurs, we may be out of paper to throw at the problem.....and whatever happened to the Democrat promise of Pay as you go?????

Edited April 11, 2009 by bytor2112

[LittleWyvern]

The truth, of course, lies somewhere in the middle. But I think it's accurate to say that there are a heck of a lot of people who don't want to admit that they were overextended, or invested unwisely, or are now reaping the consequences of poor decisions (regarding education, family planning, and/or a host of other issues) made years or decades ago. Those were the individuals to whom my remarks were addressed.

There's no possible way to make sure any and all rescue money goes only to those who have made good decisions but got stuck in a bad financial situation that was not their fault at all. There will always inefficiencies in the system (it comes with the market): it then becomes a question of how much inefficiency one is able to take. While most of us may not agree with everything in the stimulus bill, I think we can all be thankful that some of the money is going to actual people, not just failed banks and automakers (...and insurers of failed banks and automakers).

[Islander]

There is no correlation between the financial crisis and wanting to redesign health care in this country. There is no relationship between the credit crunch and wanting to throw away free trade agreements, killing efficiency measures like outsourcing or increasing taxes on the top 5 percent earners in the country. It has nothing to do with nationalizing mortgage insurance, commercial insurance and forcing organized labor on every employer in the country.

It is called position assertion thru crisis. You seize on a crisis situation to change everything you want although not even remotely related to the crisis. I happen to know a thing or two about artificially created political change.

[JcDean78]

I would say more Fascist than Socialist under Obama but it is a close call.

[Elphaba]

Obama saw opportunity to capitalize on the fears of ignorant Americans and funded the Democratic party wish list of the last 25 years.

What does this even mean?

The Democratic party wish list? What is that?

How does the "Democratic Party" benefit from capitalizing on the fears of ignorant Americans? What do they gain by ruining the country?

I loathe the far right-wing, but I don't believe they're purposely out to devastate the country, or ruin people's lives. I think the Bush administration was reckless, ignorant and ruthless. But I don't think he purposely did the things he did to cause us harm; rather, I think he believed his actions were best for the country.

Both parties think they have the best answers on how to govern the country. They're not all heartless, cold-blooded human beings who care nothing about us, and only about themselves.

Corrupt legislators? Yes, they are despicable. Thankfully many of those we know about are gone now. I assume there are still some in office, or some new ones.

But your average legislator is sincerely devoted to his/her constituency, regardless of how whacked they are.

I've worked on a number of campaigns, and all of them have been the most honest and ethical people their constituents could have wanted. One probably lost her campaign because she would not focus on her opponent's dishonesty as she was committed to no negative campaigning.

Obama is not out to ruin you. He has not taken advantage of us to wring us dry. He is not appealing to our fears for personal gain. He honestly believes his policies will help the country recover. Whether he is right or wrong remains to be seen.

Tell me how he benefits from dragging the country into ruin?

Elphaba

[Palerider]

But your average legislator is sincerely devoted to his/her constituency, regardless of how whacked they are

I am starting to think there are not too many average ones out there anymore.....I just wish most of them would pay their taxes.....:D

[Elphaba]

I would say more Fascist than Socialist under Obama but it is a close call.

Oh please.

Obama is:

Socialist

Communist

Fascist

Marxist

Nazi

Christian

Muslim Terroist

Anti-semitic

Stupid

Born in Hawaii, Kenya and Canada

Elphaba

[Elphaba]

I am starting to think there are not too many average ones out there anymore.....I just wish most of them would pay their taxes.....:D

Point taken!

Elph

[Palerider]

Oh please.

Obama is:

Socialist

Communist

Fascist

Marxist

Nazi

Christian

Muslim Terroist

Anti-semitic

Stupid

Born in Hawaii, Kenya and Canada

Elphaba

I am trying to decide which ones on this list I agree with....

[Dravin]

Born in Hawaii, Kenya and Canada

Don't act like you're not impressed.

Anyway Arnie is supposed to be the first furriner president and we still have 34 admendments to go before that happens.

[Just_A_Guy]

There's no possible way to make sure any and all rescue money goes only to those who have made good decisions but got stuck in a bad financial situation that was not their fault at all. There will always inefficiencies in the system (it comes with the market): it then becomes a question of how much inefficiency one is able to take. While most of us may not agree with everything in the stimulus bill, I think we can all be thankful that some of the money is going to actual people, not just failed banks and automakers (...and insurers of failed banks and automakers).

My primary point here isn't the injustice of mugging the smart and careful to pay the stupid and careless. It's that by paying off the stupid and careless, we aren't making them any smarter or more careful. We're just throwing money at people (of all social classes) who will make the same mistakes all over again as soon as they get a chance to do so--because they're still having the administration and people of all political persuasions telling most of them that they've done nothing wrong.

This whole stimulus would be easier to swallow if it wasn't being used as a tool to perpetuate class envy.

[Palerider]

This article should stir some things up.....

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