what to say....

[Elphaba]

Grovel, grovel, grovel.

I think what you did was reprehensible. Writing your post knowing people who care about you were going to read it, was insulting, and suspicious.

You could have simply said you'd found a book that better described what you were feeling, and then cited it. There would have been no foul in that.

The pages Snow posted were not the only pages in the book you plagiarized from, and I wonder how many of your other posts are plagiarized as well. After all, you almost got away with it this time,. If Snow hadn’t outted you, the genuine, heartfelt support of the members here would have continued.

Instead, by writing the post as if it were in your own words, you mocked their concern.

My career was in publishing and I often contracted writers to write for different types of projects over the years. A few times I received copy that had been plagiarized, and the person was immediately put out the door.

Later, I would hear from another publisher it had hired a new writer, and sure enough, it would be him, and even more sure enough, he’d plagiarized again. It‘s what people who plagiarize do.

One person here commented on your writing from past posts, suggesting it was good enough you need only use your own words.

I have no doubt at least some of that writing is plagiarized as well.

You’re lucky other people here are much nicer than me. I know their words are still genuine and heartfelt.

But what can I say? Once a palgierizer . . .

Elphaba

Edited April 12, 2009 by Elphaba

[RachelleDrew]

Grovel, grovel, grovel.

Elphaba

What exactly else should she do? Not apologize?

I don't like what she did either, but there is only so much she can do to rectify the issue and she's doing it right now. The rest will just take time.

[GingerGolden]

I'm not one to enjoy being harsh, I avoid it at all costs if possible, cause I don't like the feeling of hurting others. It takes a great deal to back me in the the harshness corner. {...and I do come out of that harshness corner quicker for others than I do for myself}

However, I do agree with a lot of the things that Elphaba points out, maybe it's the professional writer in me that does, since I get paid to express and pay attention to what I'm relaying to others. I know how much goes into pouring out your heart in personal posts and I know how much mind work and wordsmithing goes into a proper piece of writing, no matter the subject.

To be honest, when I read Snow's post (thank you Snow) and went to look for myself, it did literally make me ill to my stomach, but only for a second or two.

Not sure, why I had that reaction, maybe because I've only heard of people doing such and never actually came across one before and knew what I was looking at.

Maybe because, I was sending heart vibrations to someone and felt duped at that moment, but everyone makes mistakes and none of us are perfect except in the way which Heavenly Father created us to be.

However, I am one of those forgive and forget kinda people.

Thank you (((bodhigirlsmiles))), for your apology.

Like I said in the personal message to you,

It'll be alright, we still love you.

Edited April 12, 2009 by GingerGolden

[NeuroTypical]

I got no problem with you, bgs. The purpose of communication is to encode a message for a particular audience, and then send it across a medium, where people recieve and decode it. Hopefully, the decoded message resembles what you intended, and hopefully, the recipient is the person you meant to give the message to in the first place.

From that standpoint, I figure that we all got the message you were sending (one of tender vulnerability about a particularly disturbing element of your past life). The encoding and sending of the message was a bit problematic, but whatever.

I briefly considered being hurt when I read Snow's post, but at the end of the day, I live by a simple rule when interacting with people on the internet. When you talk to someone online, you're talking to the whole world. I never open up and share without keeping that in mind.

So, BGH, you feel like you're twisting on the line a little, be comforted that you're in good company. I need to mention Paul H. Dunn. He was a General Authority, hailed as being one of the most dynamic speakers of the '70's and '80's. The only problem was, sometimes he "substantially embellished" the stories. Sometimes he completely falsified them - basically making them up and foisting them on us as if they were true. He claimed he had been in major league baseball. He told stories about charging machine gun emplacements in WWII. Total fabrications. He originally defended the stories, claiming that he was speaking in parable like Jesus, and he was only interested in communicating the principles. People weren't having any of that, and demanded more.

"October 23, 1991

I have been accused of various activities unbecoming a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I confess that I have not always been accurate in my public talks and writings. Furthermore, I have indulged in other activities inconsistent with the high and sacred office which I have held.

For all of these I feel a deep sense of remorse, and ask forgiveness of any whom I may have offended.

My brethern of the General Authorities, over a long period of time, have conducted in-depth investigations of the charges made against me. They have weighed the evidence. They have censured me and placed a heavy penalty upon me.

I accept their censure and the imposed penalty, and pledge to conduct my life in such a way as to merit their confidence and full fellowship.

In making these acknowledgements, I plead for the understanding of my brethern and sisters throughout the Church and give assurance of my determination so to live as to bring added respect to the cause I deeply love, and honor to the Lord who is my Redeemer.

Sincerely, Paul H. Dunn

It really makes no sense to hold a grudge against a repentant person. The best way to prove your repentance to everyone (including yourself) is to prove Elphaba (Once a palgierizer . . .) wrong. I figure you can do it.

LM

[Elphaba]

What exactly else should she do? Not apologize?

How else is she supposed to come back to the site and regain everyone’s attention, just as she has done here today.

The fawning, flowery apologies, etc., plus the self-flagellation for all to see is just more drama, and she’s already provided enough of that for my taste.

I think part of the problem is the word “plagiarize.” I think it makes people think the offense is less serious than it really is.

What it is is lying--outright lying.

I don't like what she did either, but there is only so much she can do to rectify the issue and she's doing it right now. The rest will just take time.

How much time do you think it will take? Because I assure you, just as soon as that time is up, and she has your trust again, she will do it again.

Does everyone seriously believe she was overwhelmed by her dark past, and suddenly a light bulb went off where she said: I know, just this once, I’ll post what’s in the book, as it so expresses what I want to say, but can’t?

No, that’s not what happened. She discovered some lovely, tortured prose in the book, and knowing that everyone would be moved, compassionate, and full of praise for her writing, she created a situation where it would fit, i.e., her dark past.

And then, even after she was caught, she’s creating more drama. In fact, Rachel, unknowingly, you gave her one more chance to keep the drama going.

She let you think you had figured out why she had used the book. After you praised her past writing, and suggested she use her words in the future, she assured you you had discovered the reaason why she had done this:

think you found precisely the issue. perhaps the very fact that the nature of the information was so profoundly close to my emotional capacity, rendered it all but impossible for me to adequatly describe in my own words. it wasn't the words themselves....the diction....that proved problematic. it was the emotion attached to the words. it was a mistake. i should have taken the time to craft my words, no matter the outcome.

Please.

Again, think about this. She wants us to believe she was having a bad day, and suddenly thought, “Oh my emotion is so attached to these words in this book I read, I’ll write them instead of my own.”

How many other times has she thought: “Oh my emotion is so attached to these OTHER words in a book I read, I think I’ll write them instead of my own this time, too.”?

I have seen this so many times, it's glaringly obvious, so much so, I can't quite understand why no one else sees it.

Believe me or not. Just be wary.

Elphaba

Edited April 12, 2009 by Elphaba

[bodhigirlsmiles]

How else is she supposed to come back to the site and regain everyone’s attention, just as she has done here today.

The fawning, flowery apologies, etc., plus the self-flagellation for all to see is just more drama, and she’s already provided enough of that for my taste.

I think part of the problem is the word “plagiarize.” I think it makes people think the offense is less serious than it really is.

What it is is lying--outright lying.

How much time do you think it will take? Because I assure you, just as soon as that time is up, and she has your trust again, she will do it again.

Does everyone seriously believe she was overwhelmed by her dark past, and suddenly a light bulb went off where she said: I know, just this once, I’ll post what’s in the book, as it so expresses what I want to say, but can’t?

No, that’s not what happened. She discovered some lovely, tortured prose in the book, and knowing that everyone would be moved, compassionate, and full of praise for her writing, she created a situation where it would fit, i.e., her dark past.

And then, even after she was caught, she’s creating more drama. In fact, Rachel, unknowingly, you gave her one more chance to keep the drama going.

She let you think you had figured out why she had used the book. After you praised her past writing, and suggested she use her words in the future, she assured you you had discovered the reaason why she had done this: Please.

Again, think about this. She wants us to believe she was having a bad day, and suddenly thought, “Oh my emotion is so attached to these words in this book I read, I’ll write them instead of my own.”

How many other times has she thought: “Oh my emotion is so attached to these OTHER words in a book I read, I think I’ll write them instead of my own this time, too.”?

I have seen this so many times, it's glaringly obvious, so much so, I can't quite understand why no one else sees it.

Believe me or not. Just be wary.

Elphaba

she is right. i don't deserve to be here. thank you for caring enough to point out the kind of person that i apparantly am. i shall bother everyone no further. please remove me from the site.

[Traveler]

i

.....

do i expect you to forgive me? i would never ask that of you.

......

You should on both accounts.

The Traveler

[john doe]

Okay guys, let's not allow this to devolve into personal attacks. Let's wind this thread down and move on.

[pam]

I am deeply saddened by how this has turned out. In fact ill to my stomach over it.

While I don't or didn't agree with the plagiarism, I found enough in her previous posts on numerous other threads to find some wonderful qualities that would allow me to be a forgiving person. Forgiveness towards another is a difficult thing for me to do when I've been hurt. I've never once seen her speak ill of anyone on the site. Never once saw her attack anyone on the site. In fact always very respectful towards everyone.

To use a saying.."Fool me once shame on you..fool me twice shame on me." I was however willing to give another chance.

There have been many on this site who have been given chance after chance after chance. Yet the first time bodhigirlsmiles makes an error in judgement she is thrown to the wolves.

I, for one, hope she does stay. I truly love her presence on the site.

Edited April 12, 2009 by pam

[BenRaines]

I have stayed out of this until now. Here is my five cents.

This person has made a mistake and when found out has shown remorse, as much as one can in an online forum.

Many others have been forgiven or allowed to stay and have been defended by their peers and friends.

I suggest for those who have no interest in following a poster or their post to not follow it but we (Head Moderators) are not in the habit of allowing forum members to run other forum members out of lds.net

As far as Head Moderators are concerned this has been dealt with. If a member has an issue with it that they think the Head Moderators have not taken care of then address it to them.

As John Doe, Pam and now I have said it is time to move on and not attack any one member of the forums.

If any personal attacks persist they too will be dealt with.

Regards,

Ben Raines

[Gwen]

if the consensus is that this thread has indeed expressed the message intended and run it's course should it not be closed?

[prisonchaplain]

Before this thread gets closed, I would contend for some understanding of Elpha. She's walked some rocky roads at this site, and found a core of our members who've extended graciousness, even love towards her. So, Elpha's strong reaction, imho, is not based out of vindictiveness, or a desire to run anyone off. Rather, she offers her view, a "heads up," with the hope of protecting us from naivete.

On the other hand, I would hope that Bodhigirlsmiles would indeed cheer up, and stick around. Most here have expressed a willingness to see her continue on, and to share her true feelings and words. That a few disagree ought not be enough to dissuade.

[bodhigirlsmiles]

enough with beating this dead horse, i know, i know, but i wanted to take a moment and share a few final thoughts about the last few terrible days.

prisonchaplain kind of beat me to it, but i wanted to say a few words in elphaba's defense. it took courage for her, in my opinion, to speak her mind in treacherous waters. by trecherous, i mean that the climate of my thread in which i apologized had slanted in my favor. please do not mistake my intent, i am very grateful for all the kind words of support and forgiveness that people afforded to me, despite my grave error. thank you.

i knew there was a danger (as i said) of having my apology thread turn into a pity party for myself, and yet, i felt that i truly needed to apologize. i am not sure how i could have done so without it turning into a thread of, "oh, look at bodhi, she is such the better person by apologizing and recognizing her faults!" while this is true - i did make a grave error and i am deeply remorseful about the lie that i created - i do not think anyone should be harsh on elphaba for her words. she spoke from the sincerity of her life's experiences. she was not the "bad guy"....i was. i was the one who mislead everyone with using another's words to describe what was a mirror of my life. please do not blame her.

i know that there is another risk inherant in what i am saying right now. this could be viewed as me taking the higher road to be the "all accepting" one. while this is true....i really do have an enormous capacity for love and acceptance....i do not want anyone to think that i wrote all this in order to somehow wipe clean my past mistake.

i respect elphaba greatly for her courage as well as for her willingness to use words that, without a doubt, have made certain that i will never plagiarize again. ever. my thoughts and words will spawn from my mind and no one else's. you have my word, for what it's worth.

enough of this. i love everyone here and i am happy that i can walk this journey of life with you. i will try to close this thread once i am finished here (we really needn't belabor this incident any further, right?!), but if it won't allow me (i've never tried to close a thread before), will one of the mods please be so kind as to do it for me?

thank you one and all (especially you, elphaba). i hope that we may be friends again.

if any of you wish to correspond with me about any of this privately, please feel free to send me a private message. other than this, i will say no more on this matter publicly. let's keep moving ahead, shall we? :)