Book of Abraham

[Soul_Searcher]

OK, So those of you have been following my topics have mentioned that a lot of my issues are social/cultural. Well this is a big one for me that is doctrinal.

I read the introduction to Abraham and it said some papyrus paper 'fell into the hands' of Joseph Smith. I wasn't too satisfied with that explanation so I looked on lds.org for more info. It basically said you need faith to believe it is what it says it is.

That is not enough for me, it sounds a bit too convenient a reason-using the old Holy Ghost to prove truthfulness.

Where did it come from? How did he get it? The same goes for the book of Moses. It just seems rather convenient that all the stuff about the creation etc that is specific to Mormonism happens to be in Abraham and Moses.

I cant help but think he wrote it himself, in the style of the other scriptures. After all, it wouldn't have been hard to do by this point. I could write a fake scripture now based on my reading of them over the years. I think of myself as fairly intelligent and I need more explanation than just 'have faith its true'. I want some facts.

I really need this cleared up if I'm to have no doubt if doubt is from the devil.

Any insights on this??

Thanks!

[bytor2112]

Try here......

[john doe]

Do you believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God? Maybe you should start there.

[Dravin]

It basically said you need faith to believe it is what it says it is.

This is true of:

The Old Testament

The New Testament

The Book of Mormon

The Doctrine and Covenants

[Islander]

OK, So those of you have been following my topics have mentioned that a lot of my issues are social/cultural. Well this is a big one for me that is doctrinal.

I read the introduction to Abraham and it said some papyrus paper 'fell into the hands' of Joseph Smith. I wasn't too satisfied with that explanation so I looked on lds.org for more info. It basically said you need faith to believe it is what it says it is.

That is not enough for me, it sounds a bit too convenient a reason-using the old Holy Ghost to prove truthfulness.

Where did it come from? How did he get it? The same goes for the book of Moses. It just seems rather convenient that all the stuff about the creation etc that is specific to Mormonism happens to be in Abraham and Moses.

I cant help but think he wrote it himself, in the style of the other scriptures. After all, it wouldn't have been hard to do by this point. I could write a fake scripture now based on my reading of them over the years. I think of myself as fairly intelligent and I need more explanation than just 'have faith its true'. I want some facts.

I really need this cleared up if I'm to have no doubt if doubt is from the devil.

Any insights on this??

Thanks!

Soul:

Most of the Archeologists and other researchers that spend their lives digging around in Israel are secular people. No amount of evidence is ever going to give you a testimony of the reality of God and the Gospel.

We know about Genesis from Moses. Guess what, it happen an ion before he was born and non of us were there. Do you question Genesis? In fact, other than the biblical accounts, we have no evidence of any kind for most of the events described there.

It seems you are experiencing a spiritual crisis of sorts. As I suspected, your current struggles are not the problem but symptoms of the problem you are currently facing. The fork in the road before you is simple. Are you seeking evidence to believe or not to believe? You seem already biased on the side of denial by your statements that "it all seems too convenient.". Food for thought.

On a tangent and given that I think I have a slightly better view of you situation, I would like to answer a question you posed before about being yourself. We are useless to God's purposes and incapable of fulfilling our eternal destiny "just as we are." We must become a new creature in Christ. We have to live, in thought and in deed, with every intent to be like Him, to think like Him. We must give up the desire to please ourselves and develop a burning desire to please our Heavenly Father. Long ago I pondered standing before a very sophisticated electronic component. It was deemed to be scrapped. Several months of work and hundreds of thousands in cost. But it failed the crucial tests. It was not viable for the purposes it was designed and created and it could not be fixed. The reality of the event stayed with me for years.

Will you seek God with all you heart and mind as to uncover His plan for you, or will you insist on your own course, your own ideas and life plan for yourself running the risk that it will not match His?

[jadams_4040]

OK, So those of you have been following my topics have mentioned that a lot of my issues are social/cultural. Well this is a big one for me that is doctrinal.

I read the introduction to Abraham and it said some papyrus paper 'fell into the hands' of Joseph Smith. I wasn't too satisfied with that explanation so I looked on lds.org for more info. It basically said you need faith to believe it is what it says it is.

That is not enough for me, it sounds a bit too convenient a reason-using the old Holy Ghost to prove truthfulness.

Where did it come from? How did he get it? The same goes for the book of Moses. It just seems rather convenient that all the stuff about the creation etc that is specific to Mormonism happens to be in Abraham and Moses.

I cant help but think he wrote it himself, in the style of the other scriptures. After all, it wouldn't have been hard to do by this point. I could write a fake scripture now based on my reading of them over the years. I think of myself as fairly intelligent and I need more explanation than just 'have faith its true'. I want some facts.

I really need this cleared up if I'm to have no doubt if doubt is from the devil.

Any insights on this??

Thanks!

And how do you know there is a devil?:)

[Palerider]

If you feel the way you say....I wonder why you attend church at all....instead of asking us to show you whats true and whats not...perhaps you need to humble yourself and find out for yourself...yes I know in another post you did not want to hear that...You will never know for yourself unless you humble yourself and ask.

check this site out....

LDS FAQ: The Truth About the Book of Abraham, Part 1

[tubaloth]

That is not enough for me, it sounds a bit too convenient a reason-using the old Holy Ghost to prove truthfulness.

I’m sure if an Angel told Joseph Smith where to find the book, that also wouldn’t be a good enough answer.

The same goes for the book of Moses.

You said you read the intro, but missed the part of how book of Moses came to be? It came from a “translation” of the bible.

It just seems rather convenient that all the stuff about the creation etc that is specific to Mormonism happens to be in Abraham and Moses.

If others had additional revelation/scripture, they probably would learn more about the creation. Nobody else claims to have more revealtion/ access to more scripture do they?

See http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/full/CESInstitute_PGP_Student_00__Complete_35852_eng.pdf

Edited April 11, 2009 by tubaloth

[Soul_Searcher]

And how do you know there is a devil?:)

I am saying that based on the assumption there is, circa other posts!

Do you believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God? Maybe you should start there.

I am not sure yet I'm still working on it.

Bytor, that was a great article. Thats all I wanted, an explanation. I will read it all I think, then pray and ask like I am with everything else.

I will pray tonight and ask for a spiritual experience tomorrow while I'm the right frame of mind and before I can convince myself not to!

[OtterPop]

Soul Searcher seems to be using spiritual and intellectual means to seek truth about the LDS church. What's wrong with that?

[Wingnut]

I cant help but think he wrote it himself, in the style of the other scriptures. After all, it wouldn't have been hard to do by this point. I could write a fake scripture now based on my reading of them over the years. I think of myself as fairly intelligent and I need more explanation than just 'have faith its true'. I want some facts.

I know the basic history of the origins of the Book of Abraham, but not enough to recount it accurately, so I won't here, especially in light of the more thorough links already provided. However, I have to disagree with the supposition you make here. I don't doubt that you are an intelligent person, and could probably imitate scriptural writing (to an extent). Joseph Smith, however, had about a third grade education. It's doubtful he could have done it on his own.

[Soul_Searcher]

Soul Searcher seems to be using spiritual and intellectual means to seek truth about the LDS church. What's wrong with that?

I think if anyone is to truly understand the gospel they need to use both spiritual and intellectual means. My Uncle thinks these are the strongest members. I agree, what's the problem? I know I may have to humble myself but I can't see why wanting to know the historical background and facts makes me prideful. If its all explainable and kosher, then there should be nothing to hide, therefore nothing to worry about. Should we not encourage members to research their history/culture/heritage? If not to understand about it for our own sake, but to become better missionaries and to be able to be more credible when answering questions about the church??

I know the basic history of the origins of the Book of Abraham, but not enough to recount it accurately, so I won't here, especially in light of the more thorough links already provided. However, I have to disagree with the supposition you make here. I don't doubt that you are an intelligent person, and could probably imitate scriptural writing (to an extent). Joseph Smith, however, had about a third grade education. It's doubtful he could have done it on his own.

He may have been poorly educated to start off with but you don't commune with angels and translate ancient texts, including much reading, writing and organising of a church without improving your skills somewhat!!!!

[Islander]

I am saying that based on the assumption there is, circa other posts!

I am not sure yet I'm still working on it.

Bytor, that was a great article. Thats all I wanted, an explanation. I will read it all I think, then pray and ask like I am with everything else.

I will pray tonight and ask for a spiritual experience tomorrow while I'm the right frame of mind and before I can convince myself not to!

You should pray for the Spirit to touch your heart and to feel God's presence and His influence in your life before you can expect to have a spiritual experience. You will not get one just because you want one. You should seek to develop the faith it takes to gain a spiritual witness of the Gospel and and the Restoration.

[Snow]

OK, So those of you have been following my topics have mentioned that a lot of my issues are social/cultural. Well this is a big one for me that is doctrinal.

I read the introduction to Abraham and it said some papyrus paper 'fell into the hands' of Joseph Smith. I wasn't too satisfied with that explanation so I looked on lds.org for more info. It basically said you need faith to believe it is what it says it is.

That is not enough for me, it sounds a bit too convenient a reason-using the old Holy Ghost to prove truthfulness.

Where did it come from? How did he get it? The same goes for the book of Moses. It just seems rather convenient that all the stuff about the creation etc that is specific to Mormonism happens to be in Abraham and Moses.

I cant help but think he wrote it himself, in the style of the other scriptures. After all, it wouldn't have been hard to do by this point. I could write a fake scripture now based on my reading of them over the years. I think of myself as fairly intelligent and I need more explanation than just 'have faith its true'. I want some facts.

I really need this cleared up if I'm to have no doubt if doubt is from the devil.

Any insights on this??

Thanks!

Yeah - I dunno, but let me ask you this: Let's assume that Moses wrote Genesis: Where did it come from? How did he get it? It just seems rather convenient that all that stuff about the creation etc that is specific Judeo tradition happens to be in Genesis.

Your thoughts?

[JohnnyRudick]

OK, So those of you have been following my topics have mentioned that a lot of my issues are social/cultural. Well this is a big one for me that is doctrinal.

I read the introduction to Abraham and it said some papyrus paper 'fell into the hands' of Joseph Smith. I wasn't too satisfied with that explanation so I looked on lds.org for more info. It basically said you need faith to believe it is what it says it is.

That is not enough for me, it sounds a bit too convenient a reason-using the old Holy Ghost to prove truthfulness.

Where did it come from? How did he get it? The same goes for the book of Moses. It just seems rather convenient that all the stuff about the creation etc that is specific to Mormonism happens to be in Abraham and Moses.

I cant help but think he wrote it himself, in the style of the other scriptures. After all, it wouldn't have been hard to do by this point. I could write a fake scripture now based on my reading of them over the years. I think of myself as fairly intelligent and I need more explanation than just 'have faith its true'. I want some facts.

I really need this cleared up if I'm to have no doubt if doubt is from the devil.

Any insights on this??

Thanks!

I do not believe Moses had much in the way of the "originals" just as many of the others that God has raised up to preserve the Scriptural Record.

Yet Moses (I believe) restored to us many of the plain and precious things pertaining to the Creation and our first parents and a brief history up to his time.

Wasn't it convenient that it turns out to be a Jewish/Christian type record.

Or

Maybe that is just the way it is and all the other variations of the creation, from other belief systems, are merely a "fallen away" version of the truth.

There is a reason the Book of Mormon, the Book of Moses and also the Book of Abraham

quotes the KJB.

They all being the truth has a lot to do with it even if at some points from different views.

Just a thought.

Bro. Rudick

[Maureen]

Soul_Searcher, give this a read:

Kirtland Egyptian Papers

The Kirtland Egyptian Papers (KEP) are a collection of documents written by various individuals, mostly dating to the Kirtland period of Church history (early- to mid-1830s), constituting some sort of study documents relating to the Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri.

The KEP comprise 16 documents encompassing a total of about 120 pages. They are typically divided into two categories:

so-called Egyptian alphabet and grammar documents (KEPE), and

Book of Abraham manuscript documents (KEPA).

http://en.fairmormon.org/Kirtland_Egyptian_Papers

M.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I would encourage you to read the books of Abraham and Moses. They are powerful books that contain many plain and precious truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ in them. It is comforting for me to know that some knew of the mission Jesus Christ would perform in mortality long before He came to the earth in the flesh.

[Finrock]

OK, So those of you have been following my topics have mentioned that a lot of my issues are social/cultural. Well this is a big one for me that is doctrinal.

I read the introduction to Abraham and it said some papyrus paper 'fell into the hands' of Joseph Smith. I wasn't too satisfied with that explanation so I looked on lds.org for more info. It basically said you need faith to believe it is what it says it is.

That is not enough for me, it sounds a bit too convenient a reason-using the old Holy Ghost to prove truthfulness.

Where did it come from? How did he get it? The same goes for the book of Moses. It just seems rather convenient that all the stuff about the creation etc that is specific to Mormonism happens to be in Abraham and Moses.

I cant help but think he wrote it himself, in the style of the other scriptures. After all, it wouldn't have been hard to do by this point. I could write a fake scripture now based on my reading of them over the years. I think of myself as fairly intelligent and I need more explanation than just 'have faith its true'. I want some facts.

I really need this cleared up if I'm to have no doubt if doubt is from the devil.

Any insights on this??

Thanks!

Good Evening Soul_Searcher! It's nice to meet you, if only just online! I don't post here much, but I've lurked a lot and sometimes when I feel good about answering or responding to a post, I like to take a jab at it. I hope you will find at least a little bit of value in what I write.

President Uchtdorf gave a talk just this last conference where he taught, what I think is a very profound principle for anyone who is "searching" for truth (which at some point or another all of us are). I would like to quote him here to some extent.

President Uchtdorf said, in regards to gaining a testimony and becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ:

"A friend of mine recently wrote to me, confiding that he was having a difficult time keeping his testimony strong and vibrant. He asked for counsel.

I wrote back to him and lovingly suggested a few specific things he could do that would align his life more closely with the teachings of the restored gospel. To my surprise, I heard back from him only a week later. The essence of his letter was this: “I tried what you suggested. It didn’t work. What else have you got?”

Brothers and sisters, we have to stay with it. We don’t acquire eternal life in a sprint—this is a race of endurance. We have to apply and reapply the divine gospel principles. Day after day we need to make them part of our normal life.

Too often we approach the gospel like a farmer who places a seed in the ground in the morning and expects corn on the cob by the afternoon. When Alma compared the word of God to a seed, he explained that the seed grows into a fruit-bearing tree gradually, as a result of our “faith, and [our] diligence, and patience, and long-suffering.” It’s true that some blessings come right away: soon after we plant the seed in our hearts, it begins to swell and sprout and grow, and by this we know that the seed is good. From the very moment we set foot upon the pathway of discipleship, seen and unseen blessings from God begin to attend us.

But we cannot receive the fulness of those blessings if we “neglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment.”

Knowing that the seed is good is not enough. We must “nourish it with great care, that it may get root. Only then can we partake of the fruit that is “sweet above all that is sweet, and . . . pure above all that is pure” and “feast upon this fruit even until [we] are filled, that [we] hunger not, neither shall [we] thirst.”

Discipleship is a journey. We need the refining lessons of the journey to craft our character and purify our hearts. By patiently walking in the path of discipleship, we demonstrate to ourselves the measure of our faith and our willingness to accept God’s will rather than ours" (The Way of the Disciple).

So, what is my point in quoting President Uchtdorf? I wanted to show you that faith does not come all at once. We may not gain a knowledge or answers to all of the things we want immediately. It can be useful to have a reasoned explanation of scripture and other doctrinal points. There are plenty of well reasoned articles on the Book of Abraham available as other posters have already provided links to them. However, no matter how cliche it may seem, true conversion to any part of the restored gospel, including a testimony of the Book of Abraham, comes after we exercise faith and obedience consistently and continuously, to gospel laws. As you do this, Soul_Searcher, you will find your doubts will soon disappear. I guarantee it! :)

Kind Regards,

Finrock

[Justice]

John 20:

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

This is one of the most basic and simplest principles of the Gospel that many seem to never learn.

When we study worldy things, seeing is believing.

When we study spiritual things, believing is seeing.

We naturally tried to mix the 2, but they cannot be.

When learning the things of the spirit, seeing will never lead us to believe.

[Faded]

As to describing "how Joseph Smith got these things," I think that Book of Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia does an adequate job of presenting an non-biased version of events.

There is a certain "grain of salt" that one must approach archaeology (and in this case Egyptology) with. It is best defined in Amazon.com: Motel of the Mysteries: David Macaulay: Books and I copied a brief summary/review of the book from here: Motel of the Mysteries by David Macaulay, An Evolution of Consciousness Review by Bobby Matherne

In the 40th century the North American continent is covered with 200 feet of detritus from "pollutans literatus" and "pollutans gravitas" (junk mail and air pollution). The St. Louis Gateway Arch is useful for kissing for luck under the arch (now three feet above the ground) and the penthouse levels of the Bigapple extend like new Stonehenge monoliths from the ground.

Into this milieu enters Howard Carson who, like the Howard Carter of the early 20th century, stumbles into an archaeological funerary site and opens the door into ... "wonderful things."

Each part of the "Toot'NC'mon" Motel is catalogued and fitted carefully into Carter's map of the site as a tomb and funeral repository. Even the Hot and Cold water initials on the "water trumpets" are taken by Carter as meaningful, namely, as his initials. The shrine, "carved out of a single piece of porcelain" is used to pray to their gods in song. The famous (because it appears on a paper ribbon sealing the shrine) chant is worked out phonetically by Carter to be "Sanitized Before Using" .

The altar is a TV set on a dresser - the drawers are for depositing offerings for the gods, Carter postulates.

The drawings of the book and the author's sense of humor reminds me of Glenn Baxter. In The Sacred Point, recovered photo from early 21st Century by Bobby Matherne one full-page drawing, Carter is shown making shadow pictures of a rabbit with his hand on the "tomb wall."

By the time I was nearing the end of Motel of the Mysteries I was wondering what the point of the book was, but in the last section, there it was: reproduced on a matched set of bookends was the Sacred Point!

The trouble with Egyptology and Archaeology in general = there is a lot of assumptions that are made because there's a TON of things we simply cannot know. The Egyptian religion is a dead religion. There is no direct descendant religion to their practices. Numerous conquests undoubtedly significantly altered much of what they practiced, so even if their observances HAD survived, they would probably be nothing like the ancient Egyptians.

So the Motel of Mysteries shows the probable flaws with archaeology as a science. 2000 years from now, they uncover a Motel somewhere in the ruins of the USA. The archaeologist determines that it is a sacred site. The sinks, showers and bathtubs are all determined to be part of sacred worship. The television is clearly the personal altar of worship to the gods. The swimming pool is a sacred place of cleansing for all worshipers coming to the sacred site. The lounge is the gathering place for communal worship, complete with a larger "alter" (Television).

Now as it relates to the Book of Abraham, we do not have all of the papyrus that we know once existed. I've no idea what happened to it all, but there is no historical evidence of Joseph Smith or anyone else intentionally destroying any of it. And yet it is very clear that most of the ancient papyrus is lost to us. Unfortunate, but not too surprising considering the violent expulsion of "the Mormons" from state after state after state. Bytor's link covers the gist of the discussion about the arguments and counter-arguments that exist regarding the validity of the Book of Abraham.

Anti-Mormon sources claim that this is a big "Gotcha" issue, but that's what they do. They dig for any reason to sow doubt. They have a number of claims that are completely non-historical that they continually repackage and recirculate. For instance, they claim that the Book of Mormon was written by Sidney Rigdon, and they don't bother to explain how is happened that the Book of Mormon translation began over 2 years before Joseph Smith ever met Sidney Rigdon. They conveniently ignore the fact that the book had already been finished and published before Rigdon ever met Joseph Smith. They are just like any conspiracy theorist -- they don't have to prove much of anything and their only goal is to make you question things.

As already pointed out, the Old Testament and New Testament both have a lot of historians and archaeologists who question the validity of those texts. Have they been altered over the years? Should some of the non-canon books of the Pseudepigrapha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia have been included in the Bible? There are a lot of arguments for adding books and for removing books. There's also a lot of question about the correctness of the existing copies of each book of the Bible, because they all are copies of copies of copies of the original, and all of the current copies are at minimum 1000+ years older than the original writings. Since all of the copying had to be done by hand, there is a lot of questions about accuracy. But even if you an move past all that and prove the accuracy of the Old and New Testaments perfectly, you still can't prove that the religion described in them is anything more than an ancient culture's made-up religion (just like all the other ancient religions.) "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly." The LDS Church accepts the Bible as the world of God, as is. So I don't want anyone concluding that these many controversies over Biblical validity are coming from us. They are not. I am simply pointing out that there is no scripture in all of Christianity without its critics and doubters.

So it comes down to faith and prayer. It comes down to finding God and establishing a relationship with him. You can never successfully approach any bigger or more complex issue without the foundation of a personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Faded

[Hemidakota]

I think if anyone is to truly understand the gospel they need to use both spiritual and intellectual means. My Uncle thinks these are the strongest members. I agree, what's the problem? I know I may have to humble myself but I can't see why wanting to know the historical background and facts makes me prideful. If its all explainable and kosher, then there should be nothing to hide, therefore nothing to worry about. Should we not encourage members to research their history/culture/heritage? If not to understand about it for our own sake, but to become better missionaries and to be able to be more credible when answering questions about the church??

He may have been poorly educated to start off with but you don't commune with angels and translate ancient texts, including much reading, writing and organising of a church without improving your skills somewhat!!!!

Not to say your father is incorrect, the best method is obtaining a testimony is through the Holy Ghost, having the Savior answer your questions. He did it for Paul...he did it for Alma....he did it for Joseph Smith and many more. These are they that have a solid foundation which survive through bad times as well as good times.

I do ask people not to pray first over if the Book of Mormon is true but whether or not this is the true church that was organized by GOD and that Joseph Smith was indeed HIS prophet. Everything else will fall in place.

[Faded]

I think if anyone is to truly understand the gospel they need to use both spiritual and intellectual means. My Uncle thinks these are the strongest members. I agree, what's the problem? I know I may have to humble myself but I can't see why wanting to know the historical background and facts makes me prideful. If its all explainable and kosher, then there should be nothing to hide, therefore nothing to worry about. Should we not encourage members to research their history/culture/heritage? If not to understand about it for our own sake, but to become better missionaries and to be able to be more credible when answering questions about the church??

Actually, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints goes to great lengths to teach and educate it's members about it's history. There are few other Christian religions that I'm aware of that focus on their denomination's history within the last several hundred years. Sunday School courses do not focus on the controversial, and primarily teach the history that we know. Most outside histories are tainted by bigotry and focused on proving that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. As such, those "histories" are no better than tabloids. They seek to report only the sensational, and conveniently ignore any need for serious fact-finding. They are blinded by their own bias.

Why do I mention this? Because you are bringing up a popular anti-Mormon target. The Book of Abraham. We can present the history to you, and that has been done. What you make of that history is up to you. It does seem that you've encountered some of the anti-Mormon garbage at some point, and that has led you to doubt on the basis of the Book of Abraham.

He may have been poorly educated to start off with but you don't commune with angels and translate ancient texts, including much reading, writing and organizing of a church without improving your skills somewhat!!!!

I don't think anyone should purport that Joseph Smith was an idiot. He was quite brilliant to be honest. But even near the end of his life, people of scholarly background that met Joseph Smith considered him "unlearned." He was not a scholar in the worldly sense. That much is perfectly clear.

A mere farm boy with minimal formal education and zero formal theological education managed to establish a religion that stands to this day on solid theological and intellectual footing, insofar as ANY religion can. We claim that he was the perfect instrument for those very reasons -- he did not have many pre-existing notions, therefore he was more easily taught by God.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Faded

[bytebear]

A mere farm boy with minimal formal education and zero formal theological education managed to establish a religion that stands to this day on solid theological and intellectual footing, insofar as ANY religion can. We claim that he was the perfect instrument for those very reasons -- he did not have many pre-existing notions, therefore he was more easily taught by God.

Replace "farm boy" with "fisherman" and you could just as easily be describing Peter. None of the original apostles were theologians.

[Traveler]

OK, So those of you have been following my topics have mentioned that a lot of my issues are social/cultural. Well this is a big one for me that is doctrinal.

I read the introduction to Abraham and it said some papyrus paper 'fell into the hands' of Joseph Smith. I wasn't too satisfied with that explanation so I looked on lds.org for more info. It basically said you need faith to believe it is what it says it is.

That is not enough for me, it sounds a bit too convenient a reason-using the old Holy Ghost to prove truthfulness.

Where did it come from? How did he get it? The same goes for the book of Moses. It just seems rather convenient that all the stuff about the creation etc that is specific to Mormonism happens to be in Abraham and Moses.

I cant help but think he wrote it himself, in the style of the other scriptures. After all, it wouldn't have been hard to do by this point. I could write a fake scripture now based on my reading of them over the years. I think of myself as fairly intelligent and I need more explanation than just 'have faith its true'. I want some facts.

I really need this cleared up if I'm to have no doubt if doubt is from the devil.

Any insights on this??

Thanks!

The Book of Abraham was not only written in a unknown style of ancient scriptural text but it is written in an ancient Egyptian literary form used only by the most educated members of a mathematical cult that dates back to the time of Abraham and was not known of until over 100 years after Joseph Smith published the Book of Abraham. I would note that it was this mathematical cult from which the Greeks stole the golden mean, harmonic triad, pi, and the Pythagorean Theorem. They also solved the harmonic ratios of colors (something we could not do in modern times until we invented lasers.)

The point is – how could Joseph have just accidently stumbled on an ancient literary form that matches the time and place from which the text was to have come that was unknown at the time and place in which Joseph lived and all by accident.

But then – why cannot we read and understand things of G-d on the merits of our spiritual relationship with him; otherwise known as faith?

The Traveler

[Soul_Searcher]

I have started to read Moses, then I will read Abraham. Although its raising a lot of questions already...