Daughter was sexually molested...

[RadioactiveWolfboy]

Hi: I have been a member for 13 years. I have a strong testimony, but our family is going through a difficult time. Friends of ours, also members, well I found out in 2005 from their son, that he sexually molested my daughter over a 7 year period, as well as his sister, 2 young nieces, and a friend of his sisters. I was calm when he told me but grew angrier over the past 4 years, because he kept saying he shouldn't have to go to jail or possibly get excommunicated. My daughter back then refused to talk to the police. Back in december he was stalking her at her work, and she finally snapped and talked to his probation officer. He was givin a restraining order to stay away from her. She then decided to talk to the police and press charges. Officially met with the detective 2 weeks ago, and this monday they arrested him. He then committed himself to the psyche ward at the hospital. His parents are very angry with her, her mom and I...even going as far as saying this is why I hate (my daughters mother). I was hoping to rebuild the friendship with the parents, but I don't see that happening for a long time, if ever.My daughter and her mom both stopped going to church because they don't want to see the family. What's worse is we found out that his sister helped him at a few points to molest my daughter. I hate seeing her in church playing the perfect angel. I don't hate her, but I feel she is putting on a show....Just to please her parents. I am praying hard about this but deep inside I am still very angry. I am almost glad that he is feeling disppair over his situation. Maybe now he can catch a glimpse of what his 5 victims felt and still feel. It all answers why my daughters mental health is a mess and why she dressed goth. It was a cry for help that I never saw until it was such a mess. I am trying to forgive him, but the family is making it hard by blaming us, when it was him that caused the stress and all that comes with it. I may be angry, but I don't say "I hate them". They were very close friends to us and now I feel that is gone forever. Deep down inside now I am hoping that with this 3rd charge that he will go to jail, but part of me also feels sorry for him. From what I've heard, he has sexually harrasses 3 other young women, one of whom told us that he did, but at the time, we didn't believe her. I feel so bad now for not seeing the signs. On the plus side my daughter feels like a weight has been lifted since his arrest, and she has been in counseling for 4 weeks, and doing better. I know I need to repent some and let go of my anger. I am working on that. But I think what hurts the most is being blamed for his and their pain when it was his choices, not ours. I miss the friendship alot. I could really use your prayers. My daughter and the other family could too. Sorry to rant for so long. I had to get it out!!

Richard

Edited April 22, 2009 by RadioactiveWolfboy

[lestertheemt]

(((((((((((hugs))))))))))))

I am not sure what I can say because nothing can take the hurt and the anger away, but time. Allow yourself that time. Turn to our Heavenly Father and he will give you peace.

You all will be in my prayers.

Les

[Honor]

I don't believe anybody, even those who have been through similar situations can tell you how to feel - especially his parents. Your feelings are unique to you. I think that the fact that you want to heal shows that you're not harboring them as a security blanket, but that things will only take time. I'm sorry that you are and have been going through this. I can't pretend to even imagine what it's like, but my heart goes out to you and your family.

[TruthSeekerToo]

(((((((((hugs)))))))))) from me too. And sending prayers for you and your family-all involved.

I don't think there really is anything to say. I'm glad your daughter is in counseling and I pray she can heal sooner rather than later. This is a worst nightmare for a parent and I pray you and your wife can heal soon, too.

Have you thought about attending a different ward if that would be better for your family?

[Just_A_Guy]

Glad to hear that your daughter is improving.

I'm a bit of a Dr. Laura fan. I think she'd tell you that anger is normal; it's acting on that anger that is/would be unacceptable. That you've asked us to pray for the kid's family, I think, says a lot about you. You're doing better than you think you are.

I don't know the situation with his family, but they're going through a grieving process too and irrational lashing-out is one of the stages of grief. Hopefully, in time, they'll realize that your daughter has done their son a service--to all intents and purposes, the kid's a serial rapist and he needs to be taken off the street for the protection of those around him and, ultimately, himself.

That's bizarre about the kid's sister knowingly functioning as an accessory to the crime. Hopefully your daughter informed the police about the sister's conduct, as well.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Just_A_Guy

[applepansy]

From personal experience I know that praying for him and his family will help the negative feelings you are experiencing.

Lay this at the feet of the Lord. Let the Atonement work. I know it sounds easy and like I don't understand. First, its not easy. Second, I do understand. THIRD, It Works!

Have you spoken with your bishop? He needs to know what is happening. As far as your family members not attending church...can you attend another ward? This is something else to discuss with the bishop. Let him help!

applepansy

[NeuroTypical]

These are hard issues. Life-impacting issues. Issues that change and alter relationships and lives. You've been in posession of this knowledge since 2005. You should expect this to remain an issue for quite some time. Venting is good. Writing it down can help. Are you looking to help yourself by posting here, or help your daughter? Which is first on your list? I have some advice to give if you're looking for advice, and it's different depending on what you're looking for.

[prospectmom]

There was a talk on BYU TV today not sure who gave it but He was talking about Corrie Ten Boom a Holocaust survivor who after preaching one day came face to face with one of the men who guarded and harrassed ( putting it nicely) the women at the prision camp she was at.... She had a real problem forgiving him but put it to God to forgive her for not being able to forgive him.... She was able to look him in the eyes and see him as God sees him and then forgive......

You will be stronger and a better person all around after you come through this ... it has been a long standing issue for me these situations being ignores or swept under the rug.....Nobody wants to deal with or talk about it...... It does not go away that way... Had the boy been delt with straightforward in the beginning the first report...... He might have had help and not esculated to this level....... He probably always molested his sister.... became normal for her....... Who molested him who started this..... ?????? For me many years went by when I thought that behavior was a normal part of life..... and you did not talk anout it but everybody does it.. so I was told and believed.

All parties involved need to deal with this seek council ... His family ... His parents etc..... Please know I truley feel for you and know in part how you feel....... Please try to remember as broken as he and his family are they are children of God who need to answer for their sins but still need love compassion... and care...... The only way these things can be stopped is to face them head on.... no wispers ... no putting it under the rug....... for anyone else this might happen to do not dismiss a claim follow through..... investigate... find the truth and if it is true take the steps so it never happens again and the perpetrator is delt with leagally and church wize so there may be hope for them also......

Whew..... Sorry guys I have vwery strong feelings about this....... and oddly I always have a bit of compassion for the sinner...to have lost their way that badly... how sad

[Elphaba]

I was hoping to rebuild the friendship with the parents, but I don't see that happening for a long time, if ever.

This is insane.

You brought this up almost a year ago, and many people who had been sexually abused gave you sound advice. I don't think you heard a word they said.

From what I've heard, he has sexually harrasses 3 other young women, one of whom told us that he did, but at the time, we didn't believe her. I feel so bad now for not seeing the signs.

You have an obligation to seek this young woman out and apologize to her. Profusely.

On the plus side my daughter feels like a weight has been lifted since his arrest, and she has been in counseling for 4 weeks, and doing better.

Your daughter is not going to be doing better after four weeks of counseling--more like four years IF she is lucky.

I know I need to repent some and let go of my anger. I am working on that.

This should be the last thing you should be thinking about right now, and I stress "right now." I know the day will come when you should work on that, but your daughter is STILL in the midst of a crisis, and your complete focus should be on her, not her abuser's family, who are literally continuing their son's abuse by blaming HER.

I felt this way a year ago, and from your post, I still do. I don't think you comprehend the magnitutde of what this boy has done to her. I don't blame you for that because you can't comprehend what you don't comprehend.

At this point in time, it doesn't matter what you comprehend or not--it is your responsibility now, as her parent, to do everything you can to comprehend it.

Also, if you are talking to her about forgiving them, at this point in her crisis, you are continuing to betray her. Now is NOT the time.

But I think what hurts the most is being blamed for his and their pain when it was his choices, not ours.

Right now it does not matter what hurts YOU. What matters is what hurts your daughter, and it is unfathomable to me you don't understand that you are still hurting her by even considering mending this relationship.

It is not your job to take care of your so-called friends by forgiving them right now. They are not your friends, they are your enemies. Again, they are continuing the abuse their son started.

Until they apologize to HER, take responsibility for what their son did to HER, and stop blaming HER for his suffering, you are obligated as HER parent to protect HER. By wanting to renew a friendship, you are protecting THEM.

Are you and your wife in counseling with your daughter as well? If not, that is an irresponsible therapist, because you have played a part in her betrayal. I know you did not do this knowingly, but that doesn't matter at this point. What does matter is that you understand you are continuing to do so.

In fact, many people have been complicit in her betrayal, including your bishop, who knew about his crimes. Of course she stopped coming to church, and you were irresponsible to expect otherwise when you still took her to that ward. You should never have put her back in a situation that mocked her pain. People explained this to you a year ago, and again, apparently you heard none of it.

In fact, I personally think it is irresponsible of you to continue to make your daughter watch you go to church with a ward that is coddling her abuser's family.

What about their other daughter? If she was complicit, she should, at the very least, be in counseling as well to help her understand what she has done. If your daughter knows she is not being held responsible, especially because you want to continue the friendship, AGAIN, what kind of message are you sending her?

If you are not, you AND your wife should immediately start seeing a therapist who is an expert in sexual abuse. You are suffering from a lot of grief, mourning, and dealing with justifiable anger, and, unconsciously, continuing to betray your daughter. I suspect your anger is not just anger, but post-traumatic stress disorder, and that is not something you simply pray away.

Grow up and be her parent right now. That includes taking steps to understand your responsibility in this entire situation.

You were told all of this a year ago, and frankly, I'm shocked you ignored the advice you were given from people who have suffered tremendously by sexual abuse.

Elphaba

[jiminycricket]

Richard, I'm sorry you and your family, especially your daughter, are going through this. In reading about your situation, a couple of thoughts came to my mind. I hope they help.

The boy's parents are also, as I'm sure you realize, in a very difficult position. They are probably mortified by and in deep pain over what their son has done and what he has put your daughter and others through. It sounds like they are straddling the denial and anger stages in coping with the situation. They're just looking for someone to share their son's blame and what they perceive to be their blame in all of this. Be patient with them. It might take some time, but they'll pass through the anger stage and move on through the rest of the stages of coping. For my money, the bargaining stage would probably be the best time to let them know you'd still like to be friends. Probably best to steer clear of them until then, and they'll need some friends when they get to the depression stage. (Without going into too much detail, the 5 stages of coping with tragedy are, in order, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance).

Another very important thing to consider is how your daughter might feel about you being friends with them, especially if the boy who molested her is going to be around. It might not be a very good idea for you to spend time with them until she has forgiven them, or it could make her feel distant from you and even more alone than she probably already feels.

I pray for you and your family, and your friends.

Jiminy

[RadioactiveWolfboy]

I didn't get any of the comments from the last time I talked about this because they moved the post and I couldn't find it. But thanks for your comments. Thank you to everyone that replied. I have decided to put some distance between me and the other family, for my sake and especially for my daughters. I will continue to pray for them and for the offender. I will apologize to the women that we didn't believe, because we didn't think he would do such a thing. Thanks again everyone. I really just needed to vent because of things coming to a head in the last couple of days. I have talked to the Bishop and all he said was I was on the right path, and that I was dealing with it better than he would. the young man no longer attends our ward, as he was reassigned to another ward and has since been excommunicated, and stopped coming to church, which is too bad. Only his mother, father, brother, and the sister attend. You've all given me alot to think and pray about.

Rich

[Wingnut]

I would recommend a thorough study of this talk (for you, your wife, and your daughter), from the April 2008 General Conference. Specifically, the part that jumped to my mind was this:

As impossible as it may seem to you now, in time the healing you can receive from the Savior will allow you to truly forgive the abuser and even have feelings of sorrow for him or her. When you can forgive the offense, you will be relieved of the pain and heartache that Satan wants in your life by encouraging you to hate the abuser. As a result, you will enjoy greater peace. While an important part of healing, if the thought of forgiveness causes you yet more pain, set that step aside until you have more experience with the Savior’s healing power in your own life.

(emphasis added)

To Heal the Shattering Consequences of Abuse

[NeuroTypical]

I didn't get any of the comments from the last time I talked about this because they moved the post and I couldn't find it.

So, Rich, here is your thread from 6/22/08, and here are a selection of your responses:

"Thanks for the input and suggestions. I really appreciate it."

"I appreciate the talks to read over and ponder on."

"Thanks so much for all the input. I can't tell you how much better I feel. I am going to pray over the suggestions and make some decisions and take action."

So before Elphaba does her indignant steamroller impersonation again, let me suggest something. I'll assume you are not just a sick troll who just enjoys provoking a response from people on this issue. If you find you're having a hard time finding place for this issue, thinking about it, remembering details about it, consider this: You are not alone. You are not the only parent who has found themselves more worried about a sexual preadator's soul than your daughter's. You won't be the first parent who, when faced with news about an offspring's molestation, was more pained about your own situation than your offspring's. (Your quote: "I think what hurts the most is being blamed for his and their pain when it was his choices, not ours.") I don't get it, I don't think anyone on this thread will get it, but you are not the only parent who does this.

A social worker who works for our local LDS Social Services tells me they occasionally organize "parents of abuse victims" groups - where they help parents come to grip with their own contributions to the situation. I'd strongly suggest you look into this specific sort of targeted therapy.

One other thing to think about - your daughter won't be the first abuse victim with parents who have broken priorities. Be aware - you are going about attempting to rid yourself of anger and forgive. You are loudly and repetetively pained and full of regret about how the issue is negatively impacting your relationship with neighbors. Be aware - a lot of dependent children will see this behavior, and understand you are putting a higher value on these things than you do on the child. Wether they're right or wrong in doing so, be aware that this is one big factor that keeps the cycle of abuse going. Your daughter is more likely to marry an abuser, or even become one herself, if she sees her parents falling all over themselves to forgive the perpetrator, and failing to understand how much she hurts. In other words, I'm betting she didn't go goth because she got raped for 7 years, she went goth because all the LDS role models in her life have failed her in a terrible way.

I see from your prior threads, stories of divorce and shared custody. That ain't helping matters any. Get help. Fix your issues, then be the father your daughter needs.

Again, God bless.

LM

[Elphaba]

I didn't get any of the comments from the last time I talked about this because they moved the post and I couldn't find it.

I apologize. It's in the Open Discussion forum, so I suspect it was moved. Unless you have the mods' approval to view that forum, you can't, and I'm sure that's why you couldn't find it.

I also apologize for my harsh tone. I thought you had read the previous posts and had ignored them. I'm glad to hear you're taking the steps you are.

I would still strongly advise you to seek counseling from a therapist who is an expert in sexual abuse. You need this information to know how to approach your daughter from this point on.

Elphaba

[Elphaba]

So, Rich, here is your thread from 6/22/08, and here are a selection of your responses:

"Thanks for the input and suggestions. I really appreciate it."

"I appreciate the talks to read over and ponder on."

"Thanks so much for all the input. I can't tell you how much better I feel. I am going to pray over the suggestions and make some decisions and take action."

Actually, the thread I'm referring to was in May of 2008, and I was certainly not the only person who responded to his initial post with the information I included today.

So before Elphaba does her indignant steamroller impersonation again,

I deserved that.

let me suggest something. I'll assume you are not just a sick troll who just enjoys provoking a response from people on this issue.

I never thought that.

Elphaba

[pam]

Yet he did get the comments because he responded to them. The thread LM refers to is still in general discussion. So he has seen the responses because he responded to them.

[spiritseeker]

I am a survivor myself of sexual abuse. I must say I agree with Elphaba , your main concern is your daughter right now. The beginnings of recovery are very tricky. Forgiveness comes later. I commend you on the gesture of forgiveness but it sort of seems as if what you are really concerned about is the friendship with your daughters abusers family. Trust me that is not what your daughter needs right now. She needs your righteous anger. Because the road you and your family are on now is a long , long road with many twist and turns....

What got me through is the Atonement. Tell your daughter that her sanity lies in that and in prayer. There are many articles available that I have found . If you are interested let me know and I will gather it together for you.

Let me also say how wonderful it is that you are supporting your daughter. I wish I had had the support of my family..... God bless you brother and your family. I will pray for you all !!

[Elphaba]

Yet he did get the comments because he responded to them. The thread LM refers to is still in general discussion. So he has seen the responses because he responded to them.

What is up with that?

Rich, you said you didn't read the responses that told you what you should do, but you did.

I realize they were only a few posts, but they were articulately written by people who have been traumatized by the same horror your daughter continues to go through, and they continue to be traumatized. That should have held more weight.

Elphaba's indignant steamroller impersonation coming back.

I get the feeling you come her unbearably loaded down with a huge, intractable burden. You have a past that would break most of us, and your present is just as bad, so you come here to unload that burden when you can no longer endure it. In and of itself, there is nothing wrong with that.

But that seems to be all you do. You unload, thank everyone for their suggestions, say you'll pray about them, and then ignore the very people who tell you what to do because they've been in your daughter's shoes.

The most imperative suggestion was to get your daugher away. This was not to run away, it was to protect her. I think it's too late for that now, and more damage has been done.

I am absolutely the worst example of what a good parent should be. It took me years to figure out some of these things; unfortunately, my children were grown by then. They have suffered greatly, and in many ways, continue to suffer. That is MY fault.

But I had been so terribly abused myself, I had no idea how to be a good parent. I tried very hard to figure it out on my own, but I now know that that was not possible. It took years of therapy to help me to see this, and again, it was too late.

That is why it is imperative you get to a therapist with an expertise in sexual abuse--now, so you don't make the same mistake. I don't think you're taking that suggestion seriously.

My steamrolling is not to be mean. Your daugher is still in crisis, and this is urgent. Too much time has gone by already and done its damage. It cannot just be set aside for another four years while you continue to not know what to do to help your daughter, and continue to take no action to discover what to do.

Everyone always suggests going to see the bishop, which is perfectly appropriate. Unfortunately, your bishop has not only been no help at all, he has exacerbated the situation. Whether anyone wants to hear it or not, this is very common in LDS communities where rape is involved.

The bishop is not a therapist, and he simply does not have the knowledge to deal with these things. I've seen it time after time after time. If he had, he would have handed you a referral to LDSSS, insisted you get into family counseling immediately, and have followed up to make sure you did.

He would also have made sure your daughter would be welcomed at church in a loving environment where she would be SAFE. He would not have subjected her to the hell of watching her abuser sit there each Sunday, or go through the anguish of knowing what he had done to her, thus retraumatizing her over and over again.

He would also have told your daughter, like Elizabeth Smart's bishop told her after she had been repeatedly raped, that she was still as innocent as she was before this happened, and then done whatever necessary to help her believe that.

I am not saying these things to bash bishops. I'm explaining it so you can see how you are not the only adult in her life who failed her because of their inactions, and this traumatized her even further.

LM is right that you are not the first, nor will you be the last parent to make mistakes in this situation. It's a horrible to discover your child has been raped, and frankly, no one knows what to do in the frenzy of the days, weeks, months and years that follow.

I don't blame you for what you didn't know. But if you had read the responses to your June post, like you said you did in the thread, they told you what you should have done. But that is in the past. If you listen to those responses today, you know now.

It sounds like you are going to take some of these steps seriously now, and I am very glad to hear it. I am especially glad to hear you're going to distance yourself from this family. Whether your daughter understands this or not, you are helping her cope with this.

In fact, I would suggest you tell her what you are doing, and why. She will probably balk and feel responsible, and then guilty, for your decision. It is your job to reassure her, as many times as needed, that she is more important to you than the other family.

Hold her tenderly, look her in the eyes, and tell her she is the most important thing in your world right now, not his family. Tell her until you feel she is safe from their accusations, you will not have anything to do with them. Tell her how sorry you are you didn't know how to protect her, and then tell her you will do everything you can, now, to do so. And of course, look her in the eyes longer and tell her how much you love her.

Then do it again.

My heart breaks for all of you, but especially for your poor angel whose innocence was ripped from her. Listen to the people here who have had the same thing happen to them.

Elphaba

Edited April 23, 2009 by Elphaba

[applepansy]

Elphaba, LDS bishops are now trained extensively to refer people in these situations to LDS Social Services. Most bishops use LDS Social Services for far more. LDS Social Services employees are very busy people. There are also "missionaries" called who teach 12-step classes in an annonymous environment. There are other group programs in place which are available through LDS Social Services and Bishops.

The church is on top of this and other issues. Training has taken some time, but I believe most bishops understand and are responding appropriately.

Most of the problem today are because people do not go to their bishops. For whatever reasons they do not avail themselves of the resources which are available. I know that when you and I were children these things were not handled well. That is not the case today.

The OP said his daughter has been in counseling for 4 years. He hasn't ignored her. His feelings are now coming to the surface and need to be dealt with. The first place to go is to his Bishop so that he can access counselors who have the same believe in the gospel. A counselor who doesn't have the same belief system can do alot of harm.

Elizabeth Smart received the help she needed. I've heard her speak. She is a strong young woman with a strong knowledge of God and the Atonement. Not everyone needs extensive counseling to get to a place of peace. I think you misunderstand what Elizabeth's bishop told her. You're leaving out the words "As far as your standing in the church is concerned . .. you are as innocent as if it never had happened." That is a statement of non-judgement. Her hurts and feelings were addressed in the way she and her family needed. I applaud her and her parents and extended family.

I hope the OP can find the same peace and healing that Elizabeth Smart and her family has found.

With respect,

applepansy

P.S. I haven't seen the posts from June. I had no idea there was an Open Forum for months after joining.

[Hemidakota]

Hi: I have been a member for 13 years. I have a strong testimony, but our family is going through a difficult time. Friends of ours, also members, well I found out in 2005 from their son, that he sexually molested my daughter over a 7 year period, as well as his sister, 2 young nieces, and a friend of his sisters. I was calm when he told me but grew angrier over the past 4 years, because he kept saying he shouldn't have to go to jail or possibly get excommunicated. My daughter back then refused to talk to the police. Back in december he was stalking her at her work, and she finally snapped and talked to his probation officer. He was givin a restraining order to stay away from her. She then decided to talk to the police and press charges. Officially met with the detective 2 weeks ago, and this monday they arrested him. He then committed himself to the psyche ward at the hospital. His parents are very angry with her, her mom and I...even going as far as saying this is why I hate (my daughters mother). I was hoping to rebuild the friendship with the parents, but I don't see that happening for a long time, if ever.My daughter and her mom both stopped going to church because they don't want to see the family. What's worse is we found out that his sister helped him at a few points to molest my daughter. I hate seeing her in church playing the perfect angel. I don't hate her, but I feel she is putting on a show....Just to please her parents. I am praying hard about this but deep inside I am still very angry. I am almost glad that he is feeling disppair over his situation. Maybe now he can catch a glimpse of what his 5 victims felt and still feel. It all answers why my daughters mental health is a mess and why she dressed goth. It was a cry for help that I never saw until it was such a mess. I am trying to forgive him, but the family is making it hard by blaming us, when it was him that caused the stress and all that comes with it. I may be angry, but I don't say "I hate them". They were very close friends to us and now I feel that is gone forever. Deep down inside now I am hoping that with this 3rd charge that he will go to jail, but part of me also feels sorry for him. From what I've heard, he has sexually harrasses 3 other young women, one of whom told us that he did, but at the time, we didn't believe her. I feel so bad now for not seeing the signs. On the plus side my daughter feels like a weight has been lifted since his arrest, and she has been in counseling for 4 weeks, and doing better. I know I need to repent some and let go of my anger. I am working on that. But I think what hurts the most is being blamed for his and their pain when it was his choices, not ours. I miss the friendship alot. I could really use your prayers. My daughter and the other family could too. Sorry to rant for so long. I had to get it out!!

Richard

It will be added to the temple rolls....GOD bless in being patience and asking for support during this horrific crime.

[InnerGold]

This is very tough. We had a similar situation locally. Naturally, we want to separate the body and the head from the perpetrator. However, after listening to the perpetrators story, we realized he was extremely messed up to. Very sad. Although I was still extremely upset with what was going on, it helped me gain a little more understanding of things and I actually felt sorry for him, too.

Unfortunately, stuff like this goes a lot deeper than we realize. Much, much deeper. You cannot remove the past. However, you can add hope and promise to the future. The young lady that I am speaking of got messed up with drugs, sex and alcohol.

She is now facing the issues head on and realizing the Gospel of Jesus Christ is hope and solace. She has been coming back to church and is starting to make serious progress towards overcoming her demons.

I would develop a close, close relationship with your daughter and all of your children. Do things that they will not expect like pull them out of school for a lunch date. Invite them to go on dates with you. Write little love notes, expressing appreciation for them. Send them cookies or balloons or something at school. Don't over do it but be genuine. She needs to feel loved and cared for.

If you are an endowed member, go to the temple yourself. Temple attendance is not just for us, it is for our families.

Best Wishes

[jiminycricket]

I would develop a close, close relationship with your daughter and all of your children. Do things that they will not expect like pull them out of school for a lunch date. Invite them to go on dates with you. Write little love notes, expressing appreciation for them. Send them cookies or balloons or something at school. Don't over do it but be genuine. She needs to feel loved and cared for.

If you are an endowed member, go to the temple yourself. Temple attendance is not just for us, it is for our families.

These are fantastic ideas. Especially doing little things to brighten your daughter's day. I don't have the first-hand experience that many of the other posters have, but I could see that helping her in a major way. She probably needs as many reasons as you can give her to smile and enjoy her life and just be happy. Of course, this is good advice for every parent out there, but particularly for parents of children in difficult situations like this. And you don't want her or her siblings to feel like she's being singled out for special treatment. InnerGold is right, it needs to be genuine and natural, and you can't forget to do just as much for your other kids (for her sake and theirs). Plus, renewing your relationship with your kids and making good times with them might fill the void of your broken friendship.

The Temple is great advice, too. Give ear to these suggestions InnerGold gave you, Richard. I'd bet you'll find it goes a long way in healing things.

Jiminy

[kiwii]

My heart goes out to you.

I must disagree with Elphaba as to whether your daughter may have been helped in such a short time. I myself have been in counseling for only six weeks and there has been tremendous improvement.

Just to say that each person is different.

You may have noticed that some of us can be pretty vehement. For me, I wish that someone would have protected me from a known abuser. Be that person for your daughter. It's not too late. Let her know by your actions that she has a place to turn when she needs help. Let her know that she is valued. You are her Father.

[RadioactiveWolfboy]

I must apologize. I am such a spaz sometimes. I seriously forgot that I had read replies to my other post, and responded to them. I've been under alot of stress lately and if you ask my wife, she'll tell you that I am lucky to remember my own name. I'm sorry if people felt I was lying or telling mistruths. I'm really not that kind of person.

Rich

[Elphaba]

Elphaba, LDS bishops are now trained extensively to refer people in these situations to LDS Social Services. Most bishops use LDS Social Services for far more. LDS Social Services employees are very busy people. There are also "missionaries" called who teach 12-step classes in an annonymous environment. There are other group programs in place which are available through LDS Social Services and Bishops.

The church is on top of this and other issues. Training has taken some time, but I believe most bishops understand and are responding appropriately.

I knew all of this, and I suspect you are right that most bishops understand this and are responding appropriately. But not all bishops. I know of at least four relatively recent incidents, one of them on this board. Now I know a fifth.

My mother has observed an attitude in her ward that women are not believed when they go to their bishop about these issues. My mother was severely abused by my father for twenty years, and has done a good deal of reading about it since then to understand why she stayed, why she didn't get help to protect us, etc., and it is true it was a different world then. The help available to women today did not exist then.

But she understands there is much more to it, because of the very complicated emotional survival mechanisms that kick in while in this nightmare, including denial. The effects of this are the same as having been in a concentration camp, and if you don't know how to recognize that, and look for it, you're not going to understand that.

So my mother felt inspired to go to her bishop and ask if she could do a presentation to help all of the ward's authorities to understand the emotional dynamics of abuse, because that is, in her opinion, why so many women are dismissed or not believed that the situation is as bad as they say.

He was receptive, and even said he'd talk to the stake president about it, and see if maybe he'd join the discussion. I believe she talked to him one more time about it, but then she never heard from them again. I have no idea why, but they had a perfect opportunity, from a woman who has been there, to further their understanding, and they didn't take it.

Perhaps they didn't believe she was really as well-versed as she thought she was. Perhaps they believed the Church's training was enough. I really don't know and am not willing to presume their dismissal of her was just an 'I know better than you" attitude.

But in a way, it was similar to dismissing a woman who comes to him because she is currently being abused. For whatever reason, they did not think my mother was worth listening to, and I personally believe it is because, while they are trained, they have absolutely no clue about the emotional dynamics of abuse that cause the abused to either not communicate well, to communicate the wrong message, or to barely communicate at all. These are all very common in the abused, because it is born out of terror.

These were the things my mother wanted to help them understand. And no, I do not believe the Church's training covers these issues in-depth, because it is complicated and not easily understood.

In the case of Rich's bishop, I don't see how the Church's training taught him anything. Rich went to him for help, and he did nothing. He especially had a responsibility to Rich's daughter, and again, he did nothing.

Most of the problem today are because people do not go to their bishops. For whatever reasons they do not avail themselves of the resources which are available. I know that when you and I were children these things were not handled well. That is not the case today.

Rich did avail himself of his bishop. His bishop did nothing.

The OP said his daughter has been in counseling for 4 years.

No, he said four weeks.

He hasn't ignored her.

He has ignored her needs in this situation. I'm not saying he did it purposely, because I don't believe he knew any better. But that is why I'm frustrated with him. When he brought this situation to the board, he was unloading his frustrations.

A number of us recognized he did not realize the effect this was having on his daughter, and we basically told him what he should be doing to take care of her. He thanked us, said he'd pray about it, and then a year later we can see he ignored it.

I think I've made my opinions about Rich's actions very clear, and I don't want to continue bashing him. If he hears us now, I'm satisfied with that.

His feelings are now coming to the surface and need to be dealt with. The first place to go is to his Bishop so that he can access counselors who have the same believe in the gospel. A counselor who doesn't have the same belief system can do alot of harm.

I know that, and I specifically said that, including that the bishop should have refererred them to LDSSS, as I realize it is best equipped to counsel LDS families. It should have happened the minute Rich told his bishop about this five years ago. But it didn't, and it's still not.

And again, the bishop should have taken every step necessary to make sure Rich's daughter felt safe in her ward. Because he didn't, that has also traumatized her.

Imagine if the bishop, and Rich, had taken these steps. If she had had a testimony, I highly doubt she would have stopped attending. With a loving and nurturing church environment, she would have found solace in that.

But she had to go into that ward every Sunday and be exposed to that man each time she did. SOMEONE should have protected her from that. Rich may not have known that, but the bishop should have, especially with his training in sexual abuse issues from the Church.

Elizabeth Smart received the help she needed. I've heard her speak. She is a strong young woman with a strong knowledge of God and the Atonement.

I know she did. That was my point.

Again, I don't know if I did not communicate myself well, or what. My point is her bishop, and her family, did exactly the right thing. I was using them as an example.

Not everyone needs extensive counseling to get to a place of peace.

It depends on the person, how long the rape went on, whether or not an adult stepped in to stop it and protect her, etc.

First, let me say counseling is not the cure-all people think it is--believe me, I know that. You have to find the right person, and that is why I keep insisting to Rich he see a counselor with an expertise in sexual abuse to learn how to help his daughter. I think it would be a waste of his time to see anyone else.

I do believe a kind, loving and healing environment, with a strong support group, will do more good than counseling alone. I completely believe she has that love, as her father obviously loves her very much.

But she does not have the support group, etc., and that makes it worse. The rape went on for seven years, starting when she was, I believe, seven. Rich can correct me on that. Additionally, no one discovered it until the man confessed, so she had no adult protection during that entire time. Obviously an adult can't take care of what s/he doesn't know, and I take Rich off the hook for that.

But I gurantee you, because of the above, his daughter is not going to be better in four weeks of counseling. I still insist it will be like four years, and that is if she gets a good counselor. And, of course, I hope Rich will take the steps necessary to focus on her healing, and how to bring that about.

I also believe if she were to find peace in the Church and the atonement, like many of you have said, that would go a long way in healing her. While it is (added: not) my personal belief, I can surely see why. I hope she is able to do that at some point.

I think you misunderstand what Elizabeth's bishop told her. You're leaving out the words "As far as your standing in the church is concerned . .. you are as innocent as if it never had happened." That is a statement of non-judgement. Her hurts and feelings were addressed in the way she and her family needed. I applaud her and her parents and extended family.

Again, I'm not sure where our disconnect is. I wrote:

He (Rich's bishop) would also have told your daughter, like Elizabeth Smart's bishop told her after she had been repeatedly raped, that she was still as innocent as she was before this happened, and then done whatever necessary to help her believe that.

The only difference I see from what you're saying is that he said "in the eyes of the Church." Fine. I think she should have known she was still as innocent outside of the eyes of the Church as well. I don't know why that would have been a problem. And I believe her family did reinforce that message, and that is one of the reasons she's been able to heal from this as well as she has.

I wasn't criticizing Elizabeth's bishop. I'm saying Rich's bishop should have done with Elizabeth's bishop did.

I hope the OP can find the same peace and healing that Elizabeth Smart and her family has found.

I do too. Perhaps it would help Rich if he read about what her family did, because that is exactly what his daughter needed/needs.

Elphaba

Edited April 24, 2009 by Elphaba