Daughter was sexually molested...


RadioactiveWolfboy
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I am an assertive poster, and will continue to be one. Far too many people here perceive that as harsh--and they get to do that.

Fair enough. You might want to consider, though, that the point of communication is to convey meaning, and part of that meaning is tone, and tone is a matter of perception. Communication itself is in fact greatly about perception. You intend to be assertive, which is fine, but if your brand of assertive is consistently percieved as harsh, then for all intents and purposes, your message is harsh, not assertive, because that is the message your audience hears. But then, you said you're working on it, so I don't know why I'm harping on it :)

So when I saw Rich reverting beck into how much hurt he was in (which I know is genuine), but very little about his daughter, my assertive style escalated into an aggresision because of all of the reasons that I've eplxained before.

Understandable. Bit of a jump perhaps, from "he wrote very little about his daughter this time" to "he's not concerned enough about his daughter", but understandable nonetheless.

I'm only explaining this because you and others might not see a significant difference in my posting--but I will, and it will be enough. I seriously appreicate your commens about my tone.

Goes back to what I was saying about communication... but I've said enough about that. You're already working on it.

Oh, and... you're welcome.

Here is a classic example of why those of use who have been through this lose it.

Instead of taking Rachelle at her word, and most importantly, listening to the valuable information she has to offer because she has also been there, you psychoanalyed her, thereby, dismissing her information.

But that's just it -- she didn't give any information. No help or advice or support for Richard at all. The point of her post actually seemed to be, "We should all be angry at Richard." Can I understand why she feels that way, given her history and the information and assumptions she was working from at the time? Sure. But, to quote my favorite TV show (House), that "doesn't make your [anger/harshness] right or even okay. It's much simpler than that. It's just plain wrong." Indignation is only righteous when someone is knowingly, willfully violating others for their own gain, and even then most of the time we aren't justified in our anger because of our own sinfulness.

I didn't intentionally psychoanalyze Rachelle, and if you're reading, Rachelle, and you were offended by what I said I apologize. As I said in the post, that was just an instinct... a reaction... a thought that crossed my mind as I responded to your post, not necessarily anywhere near on base.

Once again, I'm stunned that people will not listen to the very people who have been there. Do we sound harsh? What would you do in our shoes?

I'm going to address an issue that needs to be addressed, but there isn't a delicate way to do it that I can think of, so bear with me.

There is an opinion that seems to be rampant in this thread that because some have been through generally similar situations in their lives, their opinions and advice are authoritative. I'm sorry, but that's not true. Every situation is different and every individual is different. The fact of the matter is, you haven't been there. You are only in that way better prepared to empathize with the daughter than the rest of us are, and able to offer insights the might apply in their situation.

Now, is your input probably going to be of greater worth, to some degree, than that of others who haven't been through even generally similar experiences? In general, most of the time it probably will, yes. Don't go thinking I don't value your contribution. I do - I appreciate it very much. It is sorely needed, I'm sure. But please don't lash out at Richard if he decides not to take your advice, don't belittle the advice and thoughts the rest of us give, or think that your advice is always superior. And please do not belittle our ability to empathize. After all, the Savior was never violated in that way, and He can empathize with her better than any of us.

If you had discovered a friend's daughter had been raped repeatedly for seven years, was taking his precious broken angel to church every week, exposing her to that man while everyone acted like nothing happened, thus retraumatizing her over and over, what would you do? I would hope you would explain to him, as a good friend, that it was his job to protect her, and that he wasn't doing so in this particular situation. He promises you he'll fix it.

Next week you see him walk her into the chapel again, and you get irritated, because you know this isn't simply something that can be put off until the father figures it out. It has to happen now! You approach him again, where he has an excuse and says he's going to stp bringing her next week.

Third week, sure enough she's there again. Are you going to tell me you wouldn't be livid by now, and that he needs some tough love at this point, which includes harshness?

That's how we feel about Rich.

Let me show you that there is a flaw in this point. You outlined Richard's story, changing the characters around so that we could empathize with your perspective. But the hypothetical story you outlined doesn't quite line up with the situation here -- None of us have seen for ourselves what Richard has or hasn't done about the situation, and up until recently he hadn't told us what he has and hasn't done. And it turns out, now that he has enlightened us, that he has been taking action, so that part of your story becomes inapplicable as well.

You read the OP, assumed that he hadn't done anything, or at least that he hadn't done what you told him to, and never looked back. That is the real cause of your anger and frustration. Is it understandable? Yes. Because of the prism of your own experiences, through which you view the situation. Try to step outside of that prism. View their story and identity as uniquely their own, having little to do with your own.

Can we get this thread back on topic please?

Let's.

Jim

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There is an opinion that seems to be rampant in this thread that because some have been through generally similar situations in their lives, their opinions and advice are authoritative. I'm sorry, but that's not true. Every situation is different and every individual is different.

Well, let's think about that a little. Authoritative, as in "the only source for truth"? You are correct - no experience or wisdom makes one side the 'sole source' of anything. However, personal experience, tempered with insight and maturity, is most definately a source. It's not "The Source", but it a legitimate source.

In the book I recommended earlier in this thread, the author has been on the lecture circuit for decades. She's heard thousands, tens of thousands of people's stories. Yeah, every situation is different, because people are unique. But sexual molestation is a thing of bell curves. If you put 1000 abuse victims in a room, and 950 of them show symptom X and Y, you can draw a few conclusions about what it's like. How many anecdotes about parents who struggle with protecting their children does one need to hear before it becomes data?

Yeah, those who have been there do not have the corner on the market. But we would be very wise to consider what they have to say very carefully. The nature of this topic means that we have to sort through a lot of emotion, maybe an illogical leap here and an unwarranted conclusion there, but it's well worth it to sort through these things and see what is being said.

LM

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Well, let's think about that a little. Authoritative, as in "the only source for truth"? You are correct - no experience or wisdom makes one side the 'sole source' of anything. However, personal experience, tempered with insight and maturity, is most definately a source. It's not "The Source", but it a legitimate source.

In the book I recommended earlier in this thread, the author has been on the lecture circuit for decades. She's heard thousands, tens of thousands of people's stories. Yeah, every situation is different, because people are unique. But sexual molestation is a thing of bell curves. If you put 1000 abuse victims in a room, and 950 of them show symptom X and Y, you can draw a few conclusions about what it's like. How many anecdotes about parents who struggle with protecting their children does one need to hear before it becomes data?

Yeah, those who have been there do not have the corner on the market. But we would be very wise to consider what they have to say very carefully. The nature of this topic means that we have to sort through a lot of emotion, maybe an illogical leap here and an unwarranted conclusion there, but it's well worth it to sort through these things and see what is being said.

LM

I agree with everything you've said here, LM. Thanks for your feedback.

Just a couple of things that apparently I should clarify about my meaning in my last post. First and foremost, advice from those who've been through similar experiences is certainly invaluable to and should be taken very seriously by people like Richard who find themselves in such awful situations. I didn't intend to demean their advice. I tried to make that clear, and even dwelled on that point a good bit just to solidify the point, but it seems that might not have been enough.

That brings me to the other point of clarification: While survivors like Elph and Rachelle are usually going to be some of the best resources for folks like Rich, their opinions and advice are not authoritative in the sense that they are not in any way binding upon Richard. What they say is not necessarily the right way for him or for his daughter, much less the only right way. He is not, nor should he feel obligated to follow their advice, or even agree with them. When they offer their advice, it should be treated by both parties as just that: an offer.

The acknowledgement I'm hoping for here is that not only do so many specifics of the situations vary among cases, but the people involved are going to vary widely in their physical, emotional, spiritual and mental characteristics, beyond just symptoms, and that just like with physical injury, as the severity of trauma increases, so does the need for a tailored, personalized response. So even if they all had the same symptoms, they should be treated according to their individual needs. Even a bell curve acknowledges outliers. In fact, in a normal distribution bell curve, almost one-third of the population could be considered outliers. Who can say whether Richard's daughter is an outlier? That's the problem with generalized data - you can never have enough of it to answer specific questions.

The bottom line is, just because it would need to be handled a particular way for one person doesn't mean that holds true for the next.

Hopefully this clarifies my meaning a little.

Thanks again,

Jim

Edited by jiminycricket
typo
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  • 2 weeks later...

Well life has been interesting these past 2 weeks. The guy that molested my daughter was pulled into the police station and confessed to what he did. The States attorney is going to bring him up on felony charges. Most likely he will go to jail for up to 5 years, being this is his 3rd offense. He will now be on the states sex offender registry. His parents and family are angry with my daughter, her mother, and I for doing this. They said he shouldn't have to go through this again. My daughter feels relieved that she got justice. Unfortunately she has stopped counseling saying that it's done I don't need counseling. This worries me, and I told her these things take time. She said "I don't care, I'm done!" It seems that nothing her mom, myself, or the counselor say matters. She is 18 and has decided she will come and go as she pleases and not follow our rules. I have decided to stay away from the family and make new friends. I don't want to hurt my daughter by hanging out with the parents. After reading all that was said on here, I realized that doing so would be like stabbing my daughter and twisting the knife. She means so much more than the friendship. I will be courteous when they speak to me, but that is all. I will be starting counseling myself soon. I went in and spoke to someone at work (I also work at the hospital) about seeing a counselor. He said it was a good idea considering all the crap going on in my life. I hope that it will also teach me to be a more supportive parent. I try, but could do better. Sometimes I am too blunt with my kids. I want to that everyone that commented or kept us in your prayers, it is so much appreciated. Please pray for the young man too, I worry about him possibly being in jail. Sex offenders are not looked apon to well. I is hard, I feel bad for him, but at the same time I am angry with him. Thanks again to all of you!!

Rich

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I know someone who got deferred, adjudicated probation for pleading guilty to a first time offense of aggravated sexual assault of a child who was 6 years old.

I don't call it the justice system anymore. It's a legal system with darn little justice sometimes.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just want to say again, Rich, that I think you're handling this with flying colors. It sounds like you've got things progressing in the right direction. It's good that the boy has been brought to (some form or fraction of) justice, that you are not encouraging your daughter's decision to quit counseling, that you're finding new friends, and most of all that you're getting yourself some counseling. I assume/hope her mom is getting counseling too.

I do want to give you a some thoughts on this situation (food for thought, if nothing else):

...My daughter feels relieved that she got justice. Unfortunately she has stopped counseling saying that it's done I don't need counseling. This worries me, and I told her these things take time. She said "I don't care, I'm done!" It seems that nothing her mom, myself, or the counselor say matters. She is 18 and has decided she will come and go as she pleases and not follow our rules...

It's probably not good that she quit counseling so suddenly and against the advice of her counselor, but maybe there's a bright side. Maybe it means she felt empowered by getting the boy prosecuted, like she's in control of her life again, and she's just taking that control out for a spin. I think it's important that you validate the empowerment she feels... that you make it clear to her that you approve of her making her own decision about this, you're just concerned that it might be too early, and she might not be completely and securely healed.

In any case, I don't think it would be wise to push her to go back. If you're right and she isn't really ready to stop counseling then the time will come when the pain will return. What you might be able to do now is prepare her for that. You might imagine how disappointing that day would be for her, especially if this is the first time she's felt that she was out of the woods. Try to help her see it coming. Even if you can only plant the seed in her mind, or partially convince her that that day might come, so that she will be less surprised by it, I think you will have done her a great service.

Be watchful for signs that the pain is returning, and if she doesn't come to you, be available for her and love her until she opens up to you. In a quiet moment when she seems lost in thought and low, pull her into your arms and hold her and let her be the one to break the silence, even if she doesn't. Listen until she wants you to speak, even if you're listening to feelings rather than words.

Also, make sure, by your actions and your words, that when that day comes she will know that she can come to you without getting an "I told you so" type of response. Then, when she does open up to you, spend some time comforting her first, then remind her of how much counseling helped when she felt this way before and ask her if she wants to go to counseling. (I wouldn't ask if she wants to go "back" to counseling or if she wants to go to counseling "again", because that might have some of the "I told you so" effect.) If she says no, accept it and be patient. The idea is to empower her -- make sure she knows she's still in control, and you're just there to help. She'll come around in her time.

Jimmy C

Edited by jiminycricket
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well things are going so much better. My daughter came to her mom and I and said "even though I don't like counseling right now, I am going to start going again because I feel it helped me more than I let on." ...My counseling is going well. I'm learning how to be a better father...and believe it or not a better husband!! LOL I ran into the boys parents just last night while getting supplies for our cookout. His stepfather and I talked for a bit and then mom came around the corner and didn't want to talk to me. That's all fine as I have made some new friends. I feel it's better to avoid them as close friends for the sake of my daughter. In other words, I'll say hi, but not hang out with them. My son and I also ran into the offender just a couple minutes later in the same store. We just avoided him and didn't let it bother us. I do feel sorry for him, because this will affect his entire life as it has affected my daughter and the rest of us. Overall I don't feel as angry as I did. My daughter does feel like she has regained some of her personal power back. She said she isn't as angry as she was. I know that this will take a long time for everyone, but I am glad about the progress made so far. Thanks for all your thoughts and prayers. You've all really helped alot!!

Rich

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