S/O God Cannot Lie


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This is a spin off from about 3 threads here. Some really good stuff has been said by several people that got me thinking.

First-God cannot lie

Second-Satan is the father of ALL lies

So, this means to me that God will not ever command us to lie. It is against his nature and law.

This also tells me that every lie ever told comes from the devil.

Now, this may seem obvious to some but it does poke holes in some popular understandings of certain scripture stories. That is why I think it is really important to understand. Understanding this helps us understand God and have more perfect faith in Him.

I'm going to try and bring over some of the qoutes I thought were so good.

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We could start by defining what is a LIE [credit to Danial H. Ludlow]

Lie

lying; bearing false witness (see also Honesty; Ten Commandments)

"Thou shalt not lie" has been one of the commandments of God from the beginning. God is a God of truth; God does not and cannot lie. To the degree to which a person lies or deceives, he is removing himself from the influence and presence of God.

Lucifer, or Satan, is the opposite of God. He is referred to as "the father of lies" and as "a liar from the beginning." When a person lies or deceives, he is following the pattern of the devil and is placing himself under the power of Satan. One of the characteristic attributes of followers of Lucifer is that they are liars and lovers of lies.

Selected Quotations

"'Yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words.' (read 2 Nephi 28:8.)

"Think of what that means, the whispering of the adversary to lie a little. Whether it be a lie intended to affect a religious organization, a business organization, a political organization, or an individual, the lie will brand the one who tells it, and sooner or later he will have to account for the wrong he has committed.

"'Yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.' (read 2 Nephi 28:8)

"That is what the adversary of righteousness is saying to the children of men. That is what Lucifer, who goes out defiling the people, is breathing in their souls. That is the kind of doctrine that is being disseminated in the world by some of those who ought to be the leaders of morality and also of righteousness." (George Albert Smith, CR, October 1932, pp. 28-29.)

Scriptural References: D&C 10:25; 42:21, 86; 62:6; 63:17; 76:103; Moses 4:4; 5:24; Prov. 14:5; Heb. 6:18; James 3:4; Alma 1:17; 5:17; 12:4.

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Now, in defining what is TRUTH: [credit to Daniel H. Ludlow]

Truth

Light of Truth; Spirit of Truth

The meaning and extent of truth has been a favorite topic of discussion for philosophers over the years. The question "What is truth?" was asked of Jesus Christ when he lived upon the earth, but the present New Testament does not include his answer. (See John 18:38.) In the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord has defined truth as "knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come." (93:24.)

The Savior frequently used the word truth in regard to himself, for he is a God of truth: "I am the way, the truth, and the life." (John 14:6; Ether 4:12.) The prophets indicate that the Savior "is full of grace and truth" (2 Ne. 2:6; John 1:14, 17; D&C 93:11), and he came to the earth to "bear witness unto the truth" (John 18:37). Jesus Christ is also identified by the title Spirit of truth—"I am the Spirit of truth." (D&C 93:26.) The apostle John quoted the Savior: "When he, the spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth." (John 16:13.) The Holy Ghost, who has the responsibility to be a witness for Jesus Christ and to testify of truth, might also be designated by the title Spirit of truth.

Selected Quotations

"What is truth? Here I must give you an inspired definition, a definition that came from an unsophisticated boy-prophet, but one which rivals the definitions of the greatest scholars and of all time. [D&C 93:24, quoted.] How is such knowledge to be obtained? Through science and education? Yes, in part, but not wholly. And why not completely? Because most of the knowledge of things 'as they were' and 'as they are to come' is without the realm and province of science, as well as much knowledge of 'things as they are.' Science, then, can give us but fragments of truth, not the whole truth. And the whole truth is necessary if we are to be provided with proper criteria by which to do our choosing.

"How then, is the whole truth to be secured? The key is to be found in another revelation, 'the Spirit of truth is of God.' [D&C 93:26.] That being so, we must, of necessity have God's aid in the acquisition of truth. His aid comes through faith and prayer. Faith contemplates the acceptance of spiritual reality of a world outside the domain of science. It involves methods and processes different from those of scientific research. It postulates humility and dependence on divine power, the antipathies of egotism and self-sufficiency. A contrite heart is a fertile field for planting the seeds of truth. In such a field they come to fruition in a knowledge, understanding, and conviction of the great concepts of life which defy the reason and philosophy of the arrogant and self-sufficient who will not stoop to the methods of the humble." (Stephen L Richards, CR, April 1939, pp. 40-41.)

"In the Church we have no fear that any discovery of new truths will ever be in conflict with these standards—with any fundamental basic principle which we advocate in the Gospel. Truth is always consistent. This fact gives to us as members of the Church a feeling of great security, a feeling of peace, a feeling of assurance. We know beyond any question that the truths which we advocate, the truths of the gospel restored to the earth through the Prophet Joseph, are in very deed the truths of heaven. These truths will always be consistent with the discovery of any new truths, whether discovered in the laboratory, through research of the scientist, or whether revealed from heaven through prophets of God. Time is always on the side of truth." (Ezra Taft Benson, CR, April 1958, p. 60.)

"Freedom is based on truth, and no man is completely free as long as any part of his belief is based on error, for the chains of error bind his mind. This is why it is so important for us to learn all the truth we can from all the sources we can." (N. Eldon Tanner, Ensign, May 1978, p. 14.)

"A truth of the gospel is not a truth until you live it. You do not really believe in tithing, and it is not a truth of the gospel to you until you pay it. The Word of Wisdom to you is not a truth of the gospel until you keep it. The Sabbath day is not a holy day unless you observe it. Fasting and paying fast offerings, consecrating your fast, is not a truth of the gospel unless you live it." (Harold B. Lee, BYUSY, 1961, p. 10.)

Scriptural References: 313D&C 6:15; 50:17, 19, 21; 88:6; 93:9, 11, 23, 26, 29; 107:71; 124:9; Moses 1:6; Ps. 117:2; John 14:17; 15:26; 16:13; Alma 30:46.

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I remember what Glen R. Pearson once stated in regard to this topic:

God is a God of truth. He does not lie. If he lied, he would cease to the God by the definition; for God, by universal agreement of the definition of the word God and the nature of the being of God, does not lie. He has said that he will not rob justice; therefore, he will not. This means that he can forgive only those sinners who have a claim on his mercy through the Atonement and through their repentance from all of their sins. This does not mean that the Lord is forced by any external power to forgive only repentant sinners. He is only compelled internally by his own honor. He is not dependent on anyone for his power. And he plays no favorites. All are treated equally and equitably. Sin is punished either in Christ (through the Atonement) or in the sinner (by God or eternal punishment). And obedience is rewarded by escape from punishment or any condition which limits progress and happiness.

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Abraham 2:22-25

22 And it came to pass when I was come near to enter into Egypt, the Lord said unto me: Behold, Sarai, thy wife, is a very fair woman to look upon;

23 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see her, they will say—She is his wife; and they will kill you, but they will save her alive; therefore see that ye do on this wise:

24 Let her say unto the Egyptians, she is thy sister, and thy soul shall live.

25 And it came to pass that I, Abraham, told Sarai, my wife, all that the Lord had said unto me—Therefore say unto them, I pray thee, thou art my sister, that it may be well with me for thy sake, and my soul shall live because of thee.

Genesis 20:12

12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

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Everyone will be judged by their actions and by the degree to which they understand.

There are times when we are justified in breaking God's law for a greater good.

Christ taught that if our animal fell in the ditch on the Sabbath, would we not labor to retrieve him?

The underlying principle is that the man did everything he could to keep and honor the Sabbath day. He could not plan ahead of time for his animal falling into the ditch. Christ spent a lot of time teaching people that we need to do the right thing for the right reason, not just because it's written down as a law.

If we are doing the right thing for the right reason, and a lesser law is broken in the process, then it will be weighed at judgement. We are agenct unto ourselves and must act with all thought and dilligence. This is why we are to involve God in everything we do.

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Sarah actually was Abraham's half-sister. So, as long as they didn't say "NO we aren't married" they wouldn't be bearing false witness anyway.

Hemi, I really like the quote from Glen R. Pearson!

I think it is safe to say there is no "lying for the Lord" or white lies. Yes, lies may vary in severity, but they are still not from God.

I'm totally not here to judge people. My whole point is that we need to understand the nature of God.

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Back to Just_A_Guy's question because I think he brought up a good point. Were those hiding Jews and telling the Germans that they weren't a lie based on "the devil made me do it?"

I mean seriously, if they had told the truth, the Jews would have probably been sent to a death camp. What if we were lying to those such as the gestapo who were evil themselves?

Is that lie coming from the devil when we are trying to save the life of a person or persons from an evil entity themself?

I'm not sure I can agree that all lies come from the devil.

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I mean seriously, if they had told the truth, the Jews would have probably been sent to a death camp. What if we were lying to those such as the gestapo who were evil themselves? Is that lie coming from the devil when we are trying to save the life of a person or persons from an evil entity themself?

Conversely those who chose the truth, and sent Jews in hiding to the concentration camp, were certainly not being true to the teachings of Jesus.

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Mark 8: 35

35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.

Luke 9: 24

24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Matt. 16: 25

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Luke 17: 33

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

What about all the Christians who were martyred because they would not deny the Christ. Should they have lied to preserve their lives?

You cannot beat the devil at his own game [by lying]. Lies do not come from God. That is what the scriptures say.

We are allowed to choose. So we can choose to lie or bear false witness. That is part of agency.

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Conversely those who chose the truth, and sent Jews in hiding to the concentration camp, were certainly not being true to the teachings of Jesus.

That's exactly my thoughts. I believe that as well. So it brings me back to my question.

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Mark 8: 35

35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.

Let's take this scripture as an example. Those that would lie to protect the Jews certainly weren't losing their life for gospels' sake. They were being protected from an evil. Clarification: they were protecting the Jews from evil.

Maybe there's just something I'm not seeing or understanding.

Edited by pam
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2 Ne. 2: 18

18 And because he had fallen from heaven, and had become miserable forever, he sought also the misery of all mankind. Wherefore, he said unto Eve, yea, even that old serpent, who is the devil, who is the father of all lies, wherefore he said: Partake of the forbidden fruit, and ye shall not die, but ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.

2 Ne. 9: 9

9 And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and istirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness.

Ether 8: 25

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who bbeguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

Moses 4: 4

4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Here are 4 witnesses from the scriptures that the devil is the father of all lies.

We can search to see if there are any evidences that God lies or commands lying. But if we find any, then the universe goes *poof*.

Edited by TruthSeekerToo
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I'll just stick with my opinion that those who were doing the Christlike thing in protecting someone even knowing their own lives were at risk, lying to do so would not be considered of the devil. I just don't see it.

Edited by pam
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pam, you forgot to add the "not" to your sentence!

BTW, I have to say that I do think those who strive to work against evil and preserve the lives of the innocent are heroes.

But, I have to think outloud here. If our physical life is so important than why is it okay to commit genocide sometimes?

Why would God command some people to lie to save their life while at the same time commanding others to kill?

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I think if we think of the story of Nephi and his brothers with Laban that in many ways answers that question. Also with Laban's servant when Nephi basically tricked him into thinking he was Laban.

I had a quote from an Ensign talk I posted...I need to find that quote again.

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By Elder F. Burton Howard

Some seek to justify their actions by quoting scripture. They often cite Nephi’s killing of Laban as an example of the need to violate a law to accomplish a greater good and to prevent a nation from dwindling in unbelief. But they forget that Nephi twice refused to follow the promptings of the Spirit. In the end, he agreed to break the commandment only when he was convinced that “the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes” (1 Ne. 4:13; italics added) and also (I believe) when he knew that the penalty for shedding blood had been lifted, in that one exceptional case, by Him whose right it is to fix and waive penalties.

I believe Heavenly Father knows what is the true intent of what we would consider to be a lie. Are we doing it for righteous reasons (which I believe there can be) or are we doing it for unrighteous reasons.

I just don't believe that everything is so black and white in this. That every single lie made, no matter the reason why, is considered to be of the devil.

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Other things I'm pondering.

God cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. Which means all lies will have to be repented of. Through the infinite atonement of Christ we can be washed clean.

Once we start lying it usually leads to others. It becomes very hard to stop.

When speaking of the last days (which I believe are now) the scriptures warn:

Isaiah 66:4&9

4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear; but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

2 Thes 2:9-12

9 Yea, the Lord, even Jesus, whose coming is not until after there cometh a falling away, by the working of Satan with all power, and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie;

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Well, that sounds pretty bad. God will (or has) allow us to be deluded that we might believe lies. Because we don't/won't love the truth.

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