Glory of God is Intelligence... connection


Recommended Posts

The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth. I was just curious why the connection between this scripture and actual intelligences has never been made. I mean understanding that God's Work and Glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. If God's Glory is intelligence I really don't think that is how smart He is or how he applies his knowledge. If we look at some quotes and scriptures I'll try to explain.

"An Immortal Intelligence, clothed with a mortal tabernacle, is called a man." Parley P. Pratt.

"A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation, for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas..." Joseph Smith.

" When True Doctrines are advanced, though they may be new to the hearers, yet the principles contained therein are perfectly natural and easy to be understood, so much so that the hearers often

imagine that they had always known them. This arises from the influence of the Spirit of Truth upon the Spirit of Intelligence that is within each person."

D&C 93:29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

D&C 93:23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;

"Our Father who swells in yonder heavens, and his son Jesus Christ, inhabit the highest degree of glory in eternity. That are possessed of all the fullness of Glory (We know the Glory of God is

Intelligence). They have a fullness of Happiness, a fullness of Power, a fullness of Intelligence, Light and Truth, and they bear rule over all other kingdoms of interior glory(Inferior intelligences), of

inferior happiness, and of inferior power."

Now I'm just trying to connect A and B here. Man was in the beginning with God. Intelligence or the Light of Truth, even the Spirit of Truth. These degrees of intelligence work perfectly with the Light of Christ, Spirit of Christ, and the Holy Ghost. Everyone who comes into this world receives the Light of Christ. The Spirit of Christ is given to us at our confirmation along with the call to receive the Holy Ghost. These are three separate and distinct Glories of Intelligences.

A quick further understanding of the subject would be the garden representation. The tree of knowledge of good and Evil represents the Spirit of Christ and the Light of Christ. The Tree of Life represents the Fullness of the Holy Ghost or Calling and Election. The Flaming Sword is put between us and The Tree of Life. The Flaming Sword represents the Word of God, or the Commandments which we must follow almost perfectly before we can receive our Calling and Elections. There are cherubim set to guide us in the church to our Calling and Elections.

Do you think there is any connection between the references of Intelligences and the glory of God?

www.angelpalmoni.com

web.me.com/angelpalmoni

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Certainly.

The word intelligence can have multiple meanings, so it can get confusing if you try to assume it means the same thing each time you see it. There may be a relation, but it's not always speaking of the same thing.

I believe that God's glory, power, and honor is that He gives man his agency and lets him choose for himself, and He provides a way for man to be redeemed from death and sin that result from the improper use of agency.

D&C 29:

36 And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—for, behold, the devil was before Adam, for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my power; and also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me because of their agency;

Moses 4:

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

Satan wanted God's ability to grant or whithhold the agency of man. God, knowing man could not be perfected any other way, did not grant this to Satan, but cast him out, and THEN He proceeded to make a space where man could fall, become mortal, exercise his agency, and be redeemed.

Moses 7:

32 The Lord said unto Enoch: Behold these thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands, and I gave unto them their knowledge, in the day I created them; and in the Garden of Eden, gave I unto man his agency;

God was able to "give us" our agency in the Garden of Eden because the "safety net" of the physical creation, which would lead to the fall, which would lead to the Redeemer (and atonement) was in place so that we could be redeemed (by repentance or being born again). In the pre-mortal existence He did not grant unto man to exercise his agency because there was no safety net in place, and the punishment for rebelling against God in His presence was eternal... there could be no redemption.

Alma (in Alma 12) tells you exactly what Satan's plan was... to do away with the mortal probation period by having Eve (and Adam) partake of the tree of life immediately after partaking of the forbidden fruit. This would have "destroyed the agency of man" because there would have been no death and no mortal probation period. So, man would have remained in an immortal state, not able to die, and not able to be redeemed, because there could be no mortal Messiah born to immortals. We would have been subject to him on this earth forever, not having the ability to exercise our agency to choose God anymore.

If you think about it, Satan's plan was like Father's in every detail but one. Satan wanted to follow Father's plan up to a certain point, and then make a subtle, but eternally significant change. Satan knew we needed 2 things to become like Father, as did we:

1. Physical body

2. Knowledge of good and evil

So, Satan would not propose a plan that did not include these 2 things.

At what point were these 2 things accomplished? Adam and Eve received a physical body, but could not have children because they lacked the knowledge of how. If Satan's only purpose was to destroy God's plan, all he had to do was to not tempt Adam or Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. But, that wasn't his purpose in tempting Eve. He was trying to bring about his own plan... which was identical to Father's up until after Eve ate the fruit.

Read Alma 12 starting in verse 20, and pay very close attention to Antionah's question, and how Alma answers it.

All mankind became "lost" after the fall. They had to be Redeemed. The ONLY way for this to happen was to have children BEFORE they became immortal (or partook of the tree of life) so that Christ could be born of a mortal mother. Had Christ been born of an immortal mother, He would not have been able to shed His blood and reverse the effects of the fall.

To me, intelligence describes whatever "matter" it is that spirits are created from when they are born. Just as a physical body is created from father and mother and organized from physical matter, and then born. God must provide a way for His spirit children to be perfected, and that includes creating an earth which allows for the fall (death) so He can "give us" or grant to us that we may freely exercise our agency... and choose good. This is His power, glory, and honor... to provide conditions for and then grant unto man to use his agency freely. This is what power, glory, and honor Satan wanted... to grant unto man his agency. Satan knew if God granted man his agency, some would not choose him. He exercised great authority over those who willfully followed him, and he hoped to get the rest of us to unwillfully follow him by removing our agency, or our ability to choose.

You see, it's not that our ageny can be taken away. Satan himself exercised his agency to rebel in the pre-mortal existence. He knew agency could not be taken. It was a right we had by being offspring of Father in Heaven. The only way he could get our agency is if we willfully gave it to him. Many did this, but it wasn't good enough. He wanted all. So, he devised this subtle change to God's plan and packaged it to look like we would all be saved. Afterall, Father's plan included partaking of the tree of life as well, the difference was just a matter of timing... right? If Eve partook immediately, then there would be no death and all would be saved, right? Didn't Satan tell Eve if she ate the fruit she wouldn't die? Yeah, that's because he wanted her to eat of the tree of life after. Father knew Satan's plan, so He guarded the tree of life as soon as they partook of the forbidden fruit. By removing Eve's ability to eat the tree of life immediately, He allowed her to retain her agency. Interesting paradox.

Anyway, our agency cannot be taken:

D&C 29:

36 And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—for, behold, the devil was before Adam, for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my power; and also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me because of their agency;

See? We had agency in the pre-mortal existence. That agency is absolute and cannot be taken.

Moses 7:

32 The Lord said unto Enoch: Behold these thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands, and I gave unto them their knowledge, in the day I created them; and in the Garden of Eden, gave I unto man his agency;

This is what Satan wanted to steal. The only way he could do so was to prevent a redemtion. Then, it didn't matter what man chose. Had Eve eaten of the tree of life immediately after the forbidden fruit, all was lost, and all was his. He would have "destroyed the agency of man." We would no longer have the ability to return to Father in Heaven, so the choice was moot. Since he could not remove our agency, he could interfere with the redemptive power that would make our choice to return to God have power. So, he became anti-Christ, or anti-Redeemer.

Sorry for the long post, but I've been studying this topic a lot the last several years, and this just touches the tip of the ice berg.

Edited by Justice
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Word Intelligence may have many different implications but truly an intelligence is only one thing. At one point in eternity we were intelligences were we not? We progressed in light until we got to a point where we were organized into spirit children for this plan of Salvation. The egyptians got it right the Book of Abraham gets it, it's even in Tennis Shoes among the Nephites. The Many Levels of Intelligences ---> Spirit Body -----> Physical Body -----> Glorified and immortal Inseparably connected to Spirit Body.

I'm really bad at typing my thoughts out in a way that makes sense to other people.

There are also intelligences behind us. Christ said that he is only doing that witch he saw God the Father do and that was to lay down his life and take it up again. In other words The Christ of this Plan of Salvation as an intelligence witnessed God the Father, the Christ of the last plan of salvation create an Atonement.

"What did Jesus do? Why i do the thing i saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. my Father worked out his Kingdom with fear & trembling & I must do the same; & when I get my Kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, & it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, & I will take his place and thereby become exalted myself."

I really hope it makes sense so far.

All the Levels of these Intelligences play an active role in the Plan of Salvation. They have a very unique ability. An intelligence can pass through our physical Body, and even our spiritual Body and Speak in a way that we can't deny. In-fact to deny it would be worse thank Murder it is the Unpardonable Sin. This is what Satan did in the Pre-existence, He denied the Holy Ghost. This is the only way to truly be a Son of Perdition. These intelligences are the Glory and Power of the Father. The Light of Christ, Spirit of Christ and the Holy Ghost are all intelligences that aid us all in this Plan.

In the Last Plan of Salvation we as intelligences were apart of that power.

To be Continued...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it all makes perfect sense so far.

The intelligences that you speak of, however, would not be God's glory, power, and honor if He did not create the conditions for the fall and redemption of man. This ALWAYS means granting unto children their agency to choose for themselves.

If God did not grant agency to His children they would never be a source of power, honor, or glory... in fact, He would cease to be God, because He would lose His power, honor, and glory. This is why He could not give it to Lucifer... and this is why Lucifer wants that power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have always seen the glory of God (i.e., intelligence) as the same as light and truth, the Light of Christ, the Spirit, Priesthood, His fulness, that which fills the immensity of space, etc., etc. I can't think of any LDS scripture off the top of my head which uses the word intelligence in the sense of knowledge or "smarts".

As for God's glory, power, and honor, I would be more likely to connect that to intelligence, etc., rather than to His giving us agency. I think God gave us agency for the same reason that He does everything He does --- because He is God and because it is right. I think He has glory, power, and honor because He is God and He had it long before the council in heaven.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Moses 1:

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

He has always been working to bring this to pass. Once He obtained glory, power, and honor, it was to perpetuate His species and bring to pass their immortality and eternal life. It does not say "to bring to pass the intelligence of man."

Moses 4:

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

Giving man his agency is God's power. It is the purpose for which this earth was created.

Moses 7:

32 The Lord said unto Enoch: Behold these thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands, and I gave unto them their knowledge, in the day I created them; and in the Garden of Eden, gave I unto man his agency;

Not only did Satan want to destroy that agency, but he wanted that power for himself (to give man his agency or retain it). God's children have agency because of who they are. As children of God we are to act. The only way we can lose our agency is to freely give it. Since some would not freely give it, Satan wanted to take by strategy what we would not give.

Not having been through the perfecting process, Lucifer did not understand that individual agency could only be granted once an earth was created, and the condition of the fall was provided (read Alma 12) so man could be redeemed. That he wanted to remove mortality (read Alma 12) shows that he knew that was the way to destroy agency, or more specifically, the redemption of man. That God placed a cheribum and flaming sword to guard the tree of life after Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit shows God knew Satan's plan.

Please read Alma 12 carefully.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that Brother McConkie did an excellent job defining and differentiating both Knowldege and Intelligence

Knowledge is basically the acquisition of information that is true

Intelligence is the application of knowledge so as to progress in the things of the spirit.

Thus:

"The devil has tremendous power and influence because of his knowledge, but he is entirely devoid of the least glimmering of intelligence" Mormon Doctrine, Intelligence

Ouch

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can string thoughts from the scriptures as well. Note that mine are actually equated in verse 36, and that both verses are in the same section, in fact, in contiguous verses:

D&C 93:36 The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth.

D&C 93:37 Light and truth forsake that evil one

So by this we learn that God's glory is, in fact, to forsake the evil one! It's simple logic and it's even tighter than what has been offered thus far. I know that I'm being absurd, but I'm also making a point.

Can we please get back to the original topic of this post (which I found interesting and enlightening) rather than using it to promote a tangential theory which has been covered in many other places?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, if you have followed me through my first two posts here than you are doing good. Now lets have some fun.

We all know the Old age question does Adam have a Belly Button? (Ignore this!!) Well next to that is Does the Holy Ghost have a Spirit Body? Well if you've followed me so far through the quotes and scriptures and reasoning we can see that the Holy Ghost is a very major part of God's Glory and Power. In-fact it is clear enough to see that the Holy Ghost as an Intelligence makes better sense than if he has a spirit body. Because the Holy Ghost is perfect just as Christ and the Father are, if he had a spirit Body he could also fulfill the role of Christ. The Holy Ghost is not simply a calling that can be fulfilled by any spirit son of god.

The way that it was explained in the previous quote will make sense here. The Christ of this plan of salvation, saw God the Father be the Christ of the last plan of salvation. When Christ witnessed this he was an intelligence he was the Holy Ghost. Since the Father is now the Father and Christ is now the Christ, the Holy Ghost will be the Christ in the Next Plan of Salvation.

The Glory of God is Intelligence, whatever Principle of Intelligence we attain in this life will rise with us in the Resurrection. Example if all we attain in this life is the Intelligence of the Light of Christ (ie the lesser intelligence) then we are destined to only enter into the TEL Kingdom. If we follow the Light of Christ it will lead us into the Church where we receive the Spirit of Christ (ie confirmation, "His spirit to be with us", the middle intelligence) then we are destined to only enter into the TER Kingdom. If we Follow the Spirit of Christ within the Church it will lead us drop by Drop, Line upon Line, to receive a fulness of the Holy Ghost (ie calling and Election, the highest intelligence) then we are able to enter into the CEL Kingdom.

The Kicker is your Light of Christ, Spirit of Christ, and Holy Ghost are your own personal Intelligences sealed within you. I thought of it once as your own dynasty of Intelligences. Because your Holy Ghost intelligence will be born as a spirit in the next plan of salvation... I don't even pretend to know how any of that connects but interestingly enough the SEALER at the last wedding I went to had us all stand in front of the Mirror in the Sealing room and he said, "this is what an eternal posterity looks like", it all hit me like a ton of bricks after that. All I saw was reflections of myself through the eternities. It's to deep to talk about but it was cool.

TO BE CONTINUED...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have always seen the glory of God (i.e., intelligence) as the same as light and truth, the Light of Christ, the Spirit, Priesthood, His fulness, that which fills the immensity of space, etc., etc. I can't think of any LDS scripture off the top of my head which uses the word intelligence in the sense of knowledge or "smarts".

As for God's glory, power, and honor, I would be more likely to connect that to intelligence, etc., rather than to His giving us agency. I think God gave us agency for the same reason that He does everything He does --- because He is God and because it is right. I think He has glory, power, and honor because He is God and He had it long before the council in heaven.

I am glad that you feel this way... Keep taking it further

www.angelpalmoni.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually am on topic. I just have a different way of expressing myself.

What I'm asking is, what came first, the chicken or the egg? Much like the question did Adam have a belly button (which by the way he definately did).

In order to obtain intelligence, we must be given or granted the ability to exercise our agency. If we are not given the ability to act and move for ourselves then the level of intelligence you're speaking about cannot be obtained. But, just because it is given does not mean it will be obtained. This is what divides the glory obtained in the kingdoms of glory to come. The amount of agency to obtain intelligence will be limited to each sphere. It's not that intelligence cannot be obtained, it's that the ability to obtain a higher intelligence will be withheld.

Remember that Satan did not want to destroy our intelligence, at least not directly. Intelligence leads away from Satan. It seems that would have been his goal. What I'm saying is, I believe it was his goal, but he wanted to take away what allowed us to gain intelligence, so he could keep us in bondage.

I believe the scriptures you posted from the D&C about the glory of God equating to intelligence. God can only achieve intelligence because He acts for Himself in all things. He has retained His agency; He did not give it up as those who follow Satan did.

Stringing scriptures together is a very good way to be sure you are staying on track. But, all scripture is true, and the ones I use and the one you use must all be true.

King Benjamin makes a profound point about knowledge, which is prerequisite to understanding intelligence:

Mosiah 4:

5 For behold, if the knowledge of the goodness of God at this time has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness, and your worthless and fallen state—

6 I say unto you, if ye have come to a knowledge of the goodness of God, and his matchless power, and his wisdom, and his patience, and his long-suffering towards the children of men; and also, the atonement which has been prepared from the foundation of the world, that thereby salvation might come to him that should put his trust in the Lord, and should be diligent in keeping his commandments, and continue in the faith even unto the end of his life, I mean the life of the mortal body—

7 I say, that this is the man who receiveth salvation, through the atonement which was prepared from the foundation of the world for all mankind, which ever were since the fall of Adam, or who are, or who ever shall be, even unto the end of the world.

8 And this is the means whereby salvation cometh. And there is none other salvation save this which hath been spoken of; neither are there any conditions whereby man can be saved except the conditions which I have told you.

9 Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.

10 And again, believe that ye must repent of your sins and forsake them, and humble yourselves before God; and ask in sincerity of heart that he would forgive you; and now, if you believe all these things see that ye do them.

11 And again I say unto you as I have said before, that as ye have come to the knowledge of the glory of God, or if ye have known of his goodness and have tasted of his love, and have received a remission of your sins, which causeth such exceedingly great joy in your souls, even so I would that ye should remember, and always retain in remembrance, the greatness of God, and your own nothingness, and his goodness and long-suffering towards you, unworthy creatures, and humble yourselves even in the depths of humility, calling on the name of the Lord daily, and standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come, which was spoken by the mouth of the angel.

12 And behold, I say unto you that if ye do this ye shall always rejoice, and be filled with the love of God, and always retain a remission of your sins; and ye shall grow in the knowledge of the glory of him that created you, or in the knowledge of that which is just and true.

Until you see the way we obtain intelligence, or what allows us to, it's very difficult to see what I'm saying. I didn't understand it myself for 40 years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Word Intelligence may have many different implications but truly an intelligence is only one thing. At one point in eternity we were intelligences were we not? We progressed in light until we got to a point where we were organized into spirit children for this plan of Salvation. The egyptians got it right the Book of Abraham gets it, it's even in Tennis Shoes among the Nephites. The Many Levels of Intelligences ---> Spirit Body -----> Physical Body -----> Glorified and immortal Inseparably connected to Spirit Body.

I'm really bad at typing my thoughts out in a way that makes sense to other people.

There are also intelligences behind us. Christ said that he is only doing that witch he saw God the Father do and that was to lay down his life and take it up again. In other words The Christ of this Plan of Salvation as an intelligence witnessed God the Father, the Christ of the last plan of salvation create an Atonement.

"What did Jesus do? Why i do the thing i saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. my Father worked out his Kingdom with fear & trembling & I must do the same; & when I get my Kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, & it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, & I will take his place and thereby become exalted myself."

I really hope it makes sense so far.

All the Levels of these Intelligences play an active role in the Plan of Salvation. They have a very unique ability. An intelligence can pass through our physical Body, and even our spiritual Body and Speak in a way that we can't deny. In-fact to deny it would be worse thank Murder it is the Unpardonable Sin. This is what Satan did in the Pre-existence, He denied the Holy Ghost. This is the only way to truly be a Son of Perdition. These intelligences are the Glory and Power of the Father. The Light of Christ, Spirit of Christ and the Holy Ghost are all intelligences that aid us all in this Plan.

In the Last Plan of Salvation we as intelligences were apart of that power.

To be Continued...

The answer lies in Genesis chapter one and two - the key to progression.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth. I was just curious why the connection between this scripture and actual intelligences has never been made. I mean understanding that God's Work and Glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. If God's Glory is intelligence I really don't think that is how smart He is or how he applies his knowledge. If we look at some quotes and scriptures I'll try to explain.

"An Immortal Intelligence, clothed with a mortal tabernacle, is called a man." Parley P. Pratt.

"A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation, for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas..." Joseph Smith.

" When True Doctrines are advanced, though they may be new to the hearers, yet the principles contained therein are perfectly natural and easy to be understood, so much so that the hearers often

imagine that they had always known them. This arises from the influence of the Spirit of Truth upon the Spirit of Intelligence that is within each person."

D&C 93:29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

D&C 93:23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;

"Our Father who swells in yonder heavens, and his son Jesus Christ, inhabit the highest degree of glory in eternity. That are possessed of all the fullness of Glory (We know the Glory of God is

Intelligence). They have a fullness of Happiness, a fullness of Power, a fullness of Intelligence, Light and Truth, and they bear rule over all other kingdoms of interior glory(Inferior intelligences), of

inferior happiness, and of inferior power."

Now I'm just trying to connect A and B here. Man was in the beginning with God. Intelligence or the Light of Truth, even the Spirit of Truth. These degrees of intelligence work perfectly with the Light of Christ, Spirit of Christ, and the Holy Ghost. Everyone who comes into this world receives the Light of Christ. The Spirit of Christ is given to us at our confirmation along with the call to receive the Holy Ghost. These are three separate and distinct Glories of Intelligences.

A quick further understanding of the subject would be the garden representation. The tree of knowledge of good and Evil represents the Spirit of Christ and the Light of Christ. The Tree of Life represents the Fullness of the Holy Ghost or Calling and Election. The Flaming Sword is put between us and The Tree of Life. The Flaming Sword represents the Word of God, or the Commandments which we must follow almost perfectly before we can receive our Calling and Elections. There are cherubim set to guide us in the church to our Calling and Elections.

Do you think there is any connection between the references of Intelligences and the glory of God?

www.angelpalmoni.com

web.me.com/angelpalmoni

What is glory again? Explained by the Prophet Joseph Smith;

The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits. (Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 Vols. 6:306-7, 311-12)

Do you see the key how FATHER obtains glory and by whom?

Honor is the power which GOD can rule, create, and primarily, to exist as GOD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To add some additional light, the affirmation of glory is not only explained but does not end with this world alone, Posted Imagehttp://i.azjmp.com/0SbSY

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming His name, is not trifling with you or me.

These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. My Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to My Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt Him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the gospel, about which so much hath been said. [King Follett Discourse, Nauvoo, 7 April 1844]

Edited by Hemidakota
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One more thing I just wanted to add, it was a thought that occurred to me the other day. I kind of explained it before. Right now I in my physical body I can give my brother a high five and a hug and we don’t walk through each other. Because our bodies are (key word here) separably connected to our spirits we cannot touch or feel a spirit with our mortal physical form. *Joke**Example* That being said today I got hit by a bus, it’s okay everyone I didn’t feel a thing which is just the way I would like to go, and I was then thrown into the spirit world, everyone was there waiting for me, great grand parents, and I was able to give them all a big hug, and I didn’t whoosh through them. Because we are made of the same matter Spirit can touch Spirit. Once we are resurrected, our bodies become inseparably connected to our spirits. Our spirits are fused to every fibre of our flesh, so that we can then in a physical and spiritual form touch spirits. It was just a comforting feeling to know that when we were all Spirit Infants our heavenly Parents could Hold us in their arms, and when we were being holy terrors, they could grab us and through us in our black hole of a room lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the Elder Roberts link, speaking of intelligence:

He must have the power to distinguish himself from other things--the "me" from the "not me." He must have power of deliberation, by which he sets over one thing against another; with power also to form a judgment that this or that is a better thing or state than this or that. Also there goes with this idea of intelligence a power of choosing one thing instead of another, one state rather than another. These powers are inseparably connected with any idea that may be formed of an intelligence. One cannot conceive of intelligence existing without these qualities any more than he can conceive of an object existing in space without dimensions.

This is what I have been trying to say. Intelligence does not exist unless it has agency. It is because intelligence has agency it can progress in knowledge. If you take away its agency, as Satan wanted to do, it destroys any chance at progression.

That's all I was trying to say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also...

These intelligences in the many kingdoms of God, and before the "beginning" of that earth-order of things, with which we are now connected, were begotten spirits. That is to say, a spirit body was provided for them, of which God is the Father; for he is called in the scriptures "the father of the spirits of men," hence our "Father in heaven." I use the term "begotten" above instead of "created," advisedly; and because I believe we are warranted in believing that the "begetting" of spirit-bodies for "intelligences" is an act of generation rather than of creation. The distinction is well stated by one of the early Christian fathers, Athanasius, as follows: "Let it be repeated that a created thing is external to the nature of the being who creates; but a generation (a begetting, as a father begets a son,) is the proper offspring of the nature."

Yes! Yes! and YES!

I have tried to express this on this forum over and over. Our physical birth is meant to teach us of our spiritual birth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to change the topic, but I found another point in Elder Robert's article I wanted to point out.

Christ is referred to, by the writer of the epistle to the Colossians, as the "first born of every creature;" and the Revelator speaks of him as "the beginning of the creation of God;" and in the revelation already quoted so often in this article(5), Jesus represents himself as being in the "beginning with the Father;" and as "the first born."

The reference to Jesus as the "first born of every creature" cannot refer to his birth into earth-life, for he was not the first-born into this world; therefore, his birth here referred to must have reference to the birth of his spirit before his earth life.

The reference to Jesus as the "beginning of the creation of God," cannot refer to his creation or generation in earth-life; for manifestly he was not the beginning of the creations of God in this world; therefore, he must have been the "beginning" of God's creation elsewhere, viz. in the spirit world, where he was begotten a spiritual personage; a son of God.

Or, it could be reference to that it was known from the foundation of the world that He would be the first child of God resurrected and perfected. I don't think that's a stretch, since whoever was the Redeemer would have to be resurrected first, hence first born.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back to intelligence:

I was going to show this scripture to Webster, but I guess he left the topic.

D&C 93:

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.

Note that this is because of agency, or the ability the intelligence has to choose.

32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.

33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

Then:

36 The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth.

37 Light and truth forsake that evil one.

Again, the itelligence forsakes Satan when they choose truth, or Christ.

38 Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God.

39 And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men, and because of the tradition of their fathers.

Again, showing we have the ability to choose which, as we choose, moves us toward Christ (or light and truth) or toward Satan (darkness).

Agency must exist in order to obtain knowledge and intelligence. If agency does not exist, then "there is no existence," or we cannot obtain knowledge and intelligence... or we cannot progress.

Edited by Justice
typos, of course
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share