Missionary's arrest sparks discussion, fear


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Missionary's arrest sparks discussion, fear - Salt Lake Tribune

'The arrest of an undocumented immigrant returning last week from his LDS mission has sparked discussion at the highest levels of the church about how to limit such exposure in the future.

"With the known realization that those risks exist, then we want to do better, or at least learn more," LDS apostle Jeffrey R. Holland, said Friday during an interview with The Salt Lake Tribune . "We want to be more precise, if we can, about how to help, how to make [a mission] the calmest, most spiritually rewarding experience for everybody." '

I was shocked when I saw this article yesterday, it seems that the church leaders are sending illegal immigrants on missions within the U.S. in order to try to prevent them from being detected as such if they attempt to travel abroad for their missions..

Could somebody please explain this, how it can be justified?

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I was shocked when I saw this article yesterday, it seems that the church leaders are sending illegal immigrants on missions within the U.S. in order to try to prevent them from being detected as such if they attempt to travel abroad for their missions...

I don't see the Church attempting to do anything illegal, or cover up the illegal status of any immigrants. As far as I know, the immigration laws are extremely hazy and difficult to work with right now- I don't agree with this policy (I personally think that illegal immigrants should achieve citizenship before serving a mission- but I imagine sometimes that's impossible) but I support the Church in this matter. Ultimately, I don't see any wrongdoing.

Like mightynancy said- it's not the role of the Church to police for illegal immigrants, and I'm unaware of any law requiring a religion (or any institution) to turn in any illegal aliens. I also think it's the ultimate decision of the missionary whether (s)he wants to serve or not- yes, the push is there and yes it's a source of blessings, but it is the missionary's decision. Whether it's right for leaders to purposely skirt passport checks (by driving missionaries home, for example) I don't know- then again, that action doesn't seem to be condoned by the Brethren but seems a panicked response.

To me, this seems to be a 'rough edge' of the Church that needs to be chipped away.

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Something to think about...in order for a missionary to go on a mission, they must pass a rigorous background check if you will so how do illegal immigrants make it through? How can the missionaires be found worthy and have the spirit if they are breaking the law of the land? So much for the question "are you honest in your dealings with your fellow men?" Why does the church simply turn a blind eye?

Edited by YellowLight
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So much for the question "are you honest in your dealings with your fellow men?" Why does the church simply turn a blind eye?

I imagine most illegal aliens serving missions have unique situations- perhaps they are living in the care of a legitimate citizen but, for whatever reason, cannot receive citizenship. Perhaps they simply lie.

Also, we have no real idea how many illegal aliens are serving missionaries. In the article, that was stated. Ultimately, the purpose of the Church is to spread the Gospel of Christ, and it bows to no nation- although the people must follow the laws of the land, and the Church makes no habit of breaking laws. This is an interesting question- I've heard much debate over the years about how immigration laws need to be reformed. I suppose it is highly possible that a God-fearing person has immigrated to the United States illegally, is seeking to establish citizenship but cannot, and has a son/daughter who wants to serve a mission. I imagine situations like this are much more in depth than black-and-white cases.

I'd be interested to learn more. What the article presents is just enough to spark heated, opinionated debates- but doesn't really give much in the way of substance.

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My citizenship wasn't checked last time I flew in a plane, either. Something must've been amiss in this case.

Immigration is such a sticky issue. I have had a number of students who immigrated illegally when they were babies or toddlers. They had no choice in the matter at the time, and grew up here. In order to obtain legal status, they must go to the country of their birth, which is foreign to them (many don't even speak the language beyond a rudimentary level - they have learned English as their primary language), apply, and wait years for it to come through, if it ever does.

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Wonder if private jets or perhaps cargo planes might be the safest way to to keep illegal alien missionaries safe from immigration officials. I hear that items packaged in coffee can fool even the most astute canine sniffers. Anyway, if shipments from Colombia can reach their destination unfettered, why not missionaries?

:D

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it's a tough situation really. When California legislators are debating how to offer instate college tuition to illigals (not just if they have the right, but actively trying to get laws passed to allow them college educations), it doesn't seem such a big step for the church to see them as having rights. The church's responsibility is to follow the law of the land, but immigation law (particularly here in California) is so murky, there is no proper course of action. The church is an institution of mercy, and allowing the poor and underprivilaged opportunities of education (i.e. truth and light) seems like the right thing to do, and they are certainly not working against the trends that immigration is taking.

I personally do not like illigal immigration. i think we need solve the problems that cause it, rather than trying to absorb the ramifications of those problems, but I can understand that the church sees the individual, one who had little or no choice in their circumstances, and should not be accountable for either the sins of their parents, or of the governments who put into place the actions that brought them into the country illigally.

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Thanks for your replies, I have to go out now, but will check the thread again when I come home, and follow up my post!

By the way, I don't have a problem with illegal immigrants, I don't have strong views either way about them, I was just shocked to see that the church was, apparently, knowingly letting illegal immigrants go on missions, and aiding them by allowing them only to serve missions in the U.S. where they were much less likely to have their citizenship challenged than they would if they served in another country..

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I'm going to have to agree with yellow light on this on. Regardless of how one feels about illegal immigration, those who are illegally here and sent out on missions are violating the law actively. While the church may be protected legally they are knowingly sending criminals and liars on missions.(the quote about sending them stateside indicates knowledge)

This is a violation of general worthiness questions. I.E. "honest in your dealings" and the 12th and 13th articles of faith.

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I don't recall the Church verifying my citizenship when I went on a mission.

-a-train

Exactly....they don't. It is the responsibility of each Bishop and Stake President should know there flock. Though, the greatest blessings here, he served a mission where allot of our members who live in America do not.

I have to agree, if anyone here is not speaking the basic English language and claiming him/herself a citizen, probability is more than 90-percent that they are here illegally. Part of the naturalization process is learning to speak the basic English language. ;)

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some of the posts are kind of harsh....... the church is doing the best it can in a really bad situation... the whole immagration thing is a mess and the laws are less than fair.... Now it is all messed up with homeland security so young members who have lived here USA all their lives are at risk... I do not see what the church did wrong...

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some of the posts are kind of harsh....... the church is doing the best it can in a really bad situation... the whole immagration thing is a mess and the laws are less than fair.... Now it is all messed up with homeland security so young members who have lived here USA all their lives are at risk... I do not see what the church did wrong...

As Hordak states, isn't the church doing wrong each time it knowingly allows an illegal immigrant to have a temple recommend, serve a mission?

'"The travel department of the church has to rethink everything. Things have changed, and they need a whole new policy," said a local church official who was aware of the situation. "With ICE [immigration and Customs Enforcement] hitting them at the bus terminals and airports, this opens a whole new discussion. I don't know how many undocumented immigrants we have serving missions, but I'm sure this is going to repeat itself."

LDS Church leaders have had evolving policies on how to keep undocumented missionaries safe. But this is the first time Holland has heard of a missionary being arrested by immigration officials while serving.

"There's been an ongoing discussion of this for 15 years. These kind of incidents, or anything like it, would continue that discussion," said Holland, who is a member of the Missionary Executive Council. "We're always trying to do, always and forever, exactly what's legal, and in the spirit of that, be fair to everyone on the religious side, on the spiritual side, to have the spiritual benefits of [serving a mission]." '

'Church leaders do make certain accommodations for undocumented missionaries, including calling them only to missions within the United States. But leaders acknowledge the missionaries' potential legal jeopardy.'

Missionary's arrest sparks discussion, fear - Salt Lake Tribune

From the above snippets, it appears that the church leaders are aware of at least some of the illegal immigrants it is sending on missions, and that it has been aware of this for many years.

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I'm going to have to agree with yellow light on this on. Regardless of how one feels about illegal immigration, those who are illegally here and sent out on missions are violating the law actively. While the church may be protected legally they are knowingly sending criminals and liars on missions.(the quote about sending them stateside indicates knowledge)

This is a violation of general worthiness questions. I.E. "honest in your dealings" and the 12th and 13th articles of faith.

I agree, I always disagreed that we should be baptizing illegals either, but I don't make the decisions. And we aren't talking not knowing citizenship status and baptizing them, but the missionaries knowing they are here illegally and being told to baptize them.

Though I suppose that's kinda sticky, I would have baptized somebody who pirates music, in fact, most of the missionaries I knew did so themselves (I seemed to be the only one refraining), heck the Mission President (a lawyer from California) pirated some CDs for us one Christmas, though I suppose he possibility could have wrangled permissions to make copies as it was the Psalm of Nephi (he only gave one disk to each companionship and hinted at burning, which I doubt he would have had permissions for). Of course on the other hand we don't baptize people on probation or parole. The more of I think about it the more murky it kinda becomes, some laws we don't think about violation being an issue (nobody looses a recommend because they got a speeding ticket, there is also the aformentioned pirating) but others will stop you, you physically steal something you are in trouble and various other situations. I suppose it boils down to whether we think of immigration laws as moral laws (no stealing, murder and the like) or regulation laws (no speeding, jaywalking and the like). Personally, regulation or moral if its bad enough to get you thrown in jail or deported I think there is a problem (at least in the US at this time).

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For me, this is really troubling. I'm not sure how to explain it.

This is really stunning. I'm shocked at Elder Hollands statements that are just so blatant and disregard the individual. I'm not sure how this sort of thing occurs, but it really ticks me off.

1. The missionary should have been honest.

2. The BP should have known, asked, been aware of the situation.

3. The Church must know about these situations, as Holland clearly states that they are being sent to state-side missions. This is because the young man could not get a valid passport to go foreign. So, there is something on the form going into SLC with the application that indicates "Here illegally". WOW. WOW. WOW!!!

4. The church encouraged, in an Agricultural Bill, a rider to protect the church, but leave the poor missionary hanging out there.

5. The church then hides behind the bill when it claims it is the law, they are simply following it.

6. Then, this thing about sending an Uncle out to OK to pick up a missionary so he wouldn't be arrested as well. They don't even take responsibility for the missionary by seeing that he gets home ok, they send a family member.

I think this is really a sad state of affairs. I thought we has "Raised the Bar"? How can we let a young man be a missionary, when he is breaking the laws of the land.

Is the following statement no longer true? "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."

Wow.

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Well, this is the SLTrib we're talking about, so take what they say with a pretty big grain of salt.

All I could think of was "What kind of person cards a missionary?" One who is wearing tags and everything.

I feel for the poor guy. But he went through his whole life knowing this could happen. I hope he had a contingency plan in place and some nice relatives in his country of origin.

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Hi,

I wasn't thinking the comments that were amazing were the reporter from the Trib, but the comments from Elder Holland. I don't think they changed the quotes from him.

It is interesting however that there appears to be Zero mention of this in the Deseret News. Isn't the fact that a missionary was arrested newsworthy? The young man was from Utah.

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Immigration status has never had an impact on temple recommends. You can still get one if you are illegal. I got this info from an LDS blog with comments from bishops over wards near the border, so I feel like it is accurate.

I never knew illegal immigrants served missions.

We have given T.R.s to people who break the laws of the land since Nauvoo.......

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I've looked on all sorts of search engines and online news sites, and the only place I could find this story is in the Trib and a local ABC site that has the Trib's article.

If a tree falls in the forest and the Trib is the only one there to see did it really happen?

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It sounds like the LDS church has a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy when it comes to citizenship status and missions. Forgive me for saying this, but it sounds hypocritical to be "raising the bar" for missionaries, yet nobody checks to make sure that people are here legally before sending them on a mission.

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If a tree falls in the forest and the Trib is the only one there to see did it really happen?

Unfortunately (but understandably), the Church-owned media outlets aren't usually the first media outlets to break controversial news relating to the Church. They'll only run it when it becomes too big to ignore.

The result of this is that you'll hear about more events by monitoring the Trib, but the Deseret News' coverage will be more sympathetic and, because they've had more time to analyze the issue, generally more thoughtful and thorough and less sensationalistic.

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