Why I am a Christian


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It may be that most of what I am about to say could be used by LDS. Not sure...see what you think. This is the response I give to the question, "How can you say that your religion is the only way?"

First, I am convinced there is a god. Cannot look at the complexity of the universe, of my world, of my own body, and not see design and a Designer.

Next, I am convinced that there is only one God. Why? It just seems that if there were many small gods, I wouldn't need to care much. Which one made me? How could a God who created everything have to compete with others? No, God is one, and He is powerful. Otherwise, I could ignore the local god, just stay below the radar, so to speak.

The one God is good. If not, I would rather ignore or avoid him. So, the one who made me, must care about me.

If so, this one God would appeal to a universal following, not bind himself to one culture.

Thus, I'm very quickly drawn to Christianity. Judaism remains married to the Hebrew people. Islam, while spreading, remains bound to Arabic and Middle Eastern culture. Part of the reason we have so much misunderstanding is that the faith is meant to be lived out in an Arabic society dominated by supporters. Only Christianity is monotheistic, universal, and portrays God as loving--even pro-active in providing reconciliation.

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Only Christianity is monotheistic, universal, and portrays God as loving--even pro-active in providing reconciliation.

Yet sadly, much mischief has been done and will continue to be done in the name of Christianity. Fortunately that does not detract from God.

I like that part in the Finlandia International Hymn that says:

This is my song, O God of all the nations,

a song of peace for lands afar and mine.

... but other hearts in other lands are beating

with hopes and dreams as true and high as mine :)

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One thing I reflect on often is Judgment Day. I know that one day I will stand before the LORD and account for my mortal life. I have felt peace many times in my life. This peace that comes thru the Atonement Jesus Christ made. Sins I have struggled with don't bother my conscience anymore as I have forsaken them thru the strength my Heavenly Father has given me.

Why am I a Latter-Day Saint Christian? The LORD has shown me that this is faith I should be involved in. I feel the authority of the Apostles and Prophet and see the wisdom that they give us in the name of the LORD.

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Still, I appreciate your response, and have a followup for you. What led you to seek out a unique authority from the Apostles and Prophet of your church? Most Christians do not see an absence of authority from their church leadership. Yet, you feel the authority that comes from your leaders. How is it unique or special, and how did you discover it?

I went through something similar, btw. My church teaches that tongues are the initial physical evidence of Spirit-baptism. My question when I learned this was, "Why do we need an initial physical evidence in the first place?" I learned, especially from Acts 10, that it helped the early Jewish believers to accept and embrace Gentile believers. It also distinguished those who proclaimed their power from those who evidenced it. Ultimately, it was a reassurance to me that God truly had empowered me.

Sometimes we take aspects of our faith as obvious, when to outsiders they are not. By learning to explain ourselves to others, we gain a better understanding of our own spirituality.

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For me, Christianity just seems to work where no other belief system could. Firstly I know that I'm a sinner, incapable of stopping myself from sinning by my own strength. (At least I've never completely succeeded so far!) Secondly there's mind-blowing idea God loves me so much that sent His own Son to die for my sins. (As a non-LDS Christian I probably have a wider concept of the atonement than most people here.) Rather than sit on the fence for ever, I decided years ago to put my trust in Christ.

A good many aspects of Christianity have bothered me over the years, many of which were stirred up quite recently when I read Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion. I'm not saying I was impressed by every argument Dawkins made, but as he points out the sheer bloodiness of much of the Old Testament (the Book of Joshua in particular) sits uneasily with the idea of a loving God. Even if the stories are allegorical (I'm not saying that they necessarily are) if they are scripture then they must have some deep truth behind them - even the bloodiest bits.

But I'm no longer being dragged down by things I don't properly understand. Perhaps it will all be explained in the world to come :)

Edited by Jamie123
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I am a Christian because I find God in Jesus. In his life and teachings and death I see uncompromising and self-sacrificing love for everyone, including traditionally unloved and unloveable people. I see Jesus' Way as found in the Sermon on the Mount and kingdom teachings bringing redemption and salvation and the Kingdom present in his every encounter. When we take Jesus' Way upon us, we share in that joy and redemptive work of the Kingdom on earth.

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It may be that most of what I am about to say could be used by LDS. Not sure...see what you think. This is the response I give to the question, "How can you say that your religion is the only way?"

First, I am convinced there is a god. Cannot look at the complexity of the universe, of my world, of my own body, and not see design and a Designer.

Next, I am convinced that there is only one God. Why? It just seems that if there were many small gods, I wouldn't need to care much. Which one made me? How could a God who created everything have to compete with others? No, God is one, and He is powerful. Otherwise, I could ignore the local god, just stay below the radar, so to speak.

The one God is good. If not, I would rather ignore or avoid him. So, the one who made me, must care about me.

If so, this one God would appeal to a universal following, not bind himself to one culture.

Thus, I'm very quickly drawn to Christianity. Judaism remains married to the Hebrew people. Islam, while spreading, remains bound to Arabic and Middle Eastern culture. Part of the reason we have so much misunderstanding is that the faith is meant to be lived out in an Arabic society dominated by supporters. Only Christianity is monotheistic, universal, and portrays God as loving--even pro-active in providing reconciliation.

I am Christian because I finally saw the Light of Jesus. He is the Light of men and the only way. His blood has made me perfect. My life is His now.

Prison Chaplain, how could you have left out Jesus in your original post?

"How can you say that your religion is the only way?"

To this I would say, Jesus is the only way.

God Bless, Jim

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What led you to seek out a unique authority from the Apostles and Prophet of your church? Most Christians do not see an absence of authority from their church leadership. Yet, you feel the authority that comes from your leaders. How is it unique or special, and how did you discover it?

i guess nothing led me to seek it out seeing as my parents were members when i was born. lol however, what makes the idea of apostles and prophets appealing to me basically boils down to 2 things.

one that is how christ set up his church when he was here... why would he do different now?

the bigger reason is i had a very close friend growing up. she attended a nondenominational christian church. i went to chruch with her on occassion. i very much enjoyed the discussions we would have reguarding church. i admired and respected the personal faith she had. one day her pastor retired. the new guy interpreted the bible a bit differently from the old one, differently from her and her family. they began looking for a new church. this confused me. in my church, no matter where i go in the world, it's the same. yes there are differences in the ppl but we use the same lessons, the same books, the same doctrines, the same rules, the same structure, etc. when someone stops being my "pastor" and a new person takes his place it doesn't change. my church is the same. god is the same yesterday today and tomorrow; he has a house of order. having a prophet and apostles allow that to happen.

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Still, I appreciate your response, and have a followup for you. What led you to seek out a unique authority from the Apostles and Prophet of your church? Most Christians do not see an absence of authority from their church leadership. Yet, you feel the authority that comes from your leaders. How is it unique or special, and how did you discover it?

Recently I began to question why I believe what I believe. Most of it comes down to John chapter 7 verse 17: "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."

I know the doctrine is true because every time I live what the Prophets of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints teach I come closer to God.

The LORD has also given me a special divine confirmation that Joseph Smith saw the vision of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in 1820. I sought His confirmation on truth for years before I finally received a witness.

After the vision Joseph Smith had and after years of preparation, he was called by the LORD to be His prophet and to restore the gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness.

I am so grateful to the LORD for all the truth He pours out into my soul when I seek after Him.

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Hi PC,

I have always respected and loved your posts and think this deserves the best of responses.

"Why is authority important?" is the crux of the issue and no trite answer about 'Authority feels right' can possibly answer it effectively.

However, before I chose the religion I believed, I studied the bible out as best I could. I started in Genesis and read all the way through, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. God built upon truths, often hinting at what he would bring.

Authority was set by the God of Abraham, introducing the idea of the Levites - A people who were given the authority by God himself. This was reflected in the new testament by Jesus choosing - Not the multitudes which followed him - But 12 Apostles that moved through and preached and taught in his name, having authority.

Now, that does make one ask, 'If authority is necessary, what about John the Baptist? He claimed not to be prophet, nor Elias, nor the Messiah. Does this mean John didn't have Priestly authority to baptize?

Certainly not. It turns out that he was the son of Zacharias and Elizabeth, both of priestly descent (Luke 1:5-25).

This, then, asks the question: Does authority matter after the death of the Saviour? Doesn't Mark 12:6 state that the son is sent last? In fact, doesn't this state implicitly (If not explicitly) that not only authority disappears, but even prophets?

There are answers to these, and I'll post if asked, but this has basically been a wall of text. ;) I'll leave the answers to this until and unless they're needed or wanted, but this is food for thought on why authority might still be needed.

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PC, thank you for your posts. Have you spoken in tongues? I'm sorry for being so forward, but I am interested in the manifestations of the Spirit.

---------------------------

Why am I Christain?

Alma 11:38-40

38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?

39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;

40 And he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name; and these are they that shall have eternal life, and salvation cometh to none else.

Because I believe!!!

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Still, I appreciate your response, and have a followup for you. What led you to seek out a unique authority from the Apostles and Prophet of your church? Most Christians do not see an absence of authority from their church leadership. Yet, you feel the authority that comes from your leaders. How is it unique or special, and how did you discover it?

I am LDS because of the way God guides my life the authority doesn't come from Apostles and Prophets it comes from a relationship with God. I have 0 intellectual reasons for being LDS, there are many I appreciate my Faith but they would be of no use if I had no relationship with God

-Charley

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I maintain my covenants in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints because it is the only institution I have found on that teaches and prepares man by covenant to be “one” with G-d and the completeness that defines his nature and power as divine. In addition it is the only religious faith that teaches that there is redemption (and therefore reason to hope) for those that die without the ordinances and covenants being taught to them in this life.

Another reason is because of the LDS understanding that marriage as ordained of G-d, as is all things of G-d, are everlasting and without end when we die.

Another is that the LDS honor Apostles and Prophets (as all covenant peoples have) that speak with authority to represent G-d as did the ancients.

Another reason is that the LDS teach and believe that Jesus is coming again and therefore are engaged and invested in the notion that G-d will speak specifically in this day additional revelations to prepare for such an important event – being the second most important event to take place in the human preparation for things divine.

The Traveler

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I am Christian because I know God lives. I know we have a Father in Heaven. If we did not then we would not be here. It's that cut and dry to me. And, even more sure, I have felt Him. I know He is there, and I know He loves me.

There are different books of scripture that claim to be of God.

The Bible and Book of Mormon teach of Jesus Christ, His Son, and I feel the same way when I read about Jesus Christ. I know He is real; I know He lived on earth; I know He was resurrected and lives now; I know the only way to God's kingdom in the eternities is by Jesus Christ.

One who believes in the Bible, and loves Jesus Christ, cannot read the Book of Mormon with real intent and not see the same Being and same message in the Book of Mormon. Both books testify that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Two different groups of people, who knew basically nothing of each other, who received revelation from God, both wrote it and it agrees! Amazing, huh?

I would have to say to those who believe in Christ, and cannot open their heart and mind to the Book of Mormon, I know you can't see it, but you are really missing out on more of the Savior's words. There are wonderful prophets and missionaries, and faith-building stories just like in the Bible. There are even deeper teachings of God's plan of Salvation in the Book of Mormon than in the Bible. I would say, pray with every earnestness and sincerity to know if the Book of Mormon really does contain words of the same Jesus Christ that was born in the Bible... and if you open your mind and heart, and really are sincere in your desire to know, not rejecting it before you pray, then you will FEEL that same Jesus to an even greater degree!

I know, it sounds amazing, and it is!

The truth is, without the Book of Mormon, I don't know if I would even be Christian. There are so many conflicts and confusions in religions who believe in just the Bible. I don't know if I could see through it all. From the bottom of my heart, and with no intent to deceive or fraud, the Book of Mormon is a true book, and tells of people that actually lived, even tells of the time when Jesus Christ Himslef appears to these people, after His resurrection, and teaches them the doctrines of the kingdom.

People ask me why this is significant, and why we need another book because we already have one. Well, the people who lived on this continent when God's people (Israel) and Jesus Christ lived on another were not forgotten. Christ was not born among them. So, does that mean they can't see Him and touch Him, and learn how to be saved? They needed their own revelation and testimony of Christ. They could not get it from the people in Jerusalem. God did speak to them, and they wrote it down. Christ did appear to them, and they wrote it down. God, in His goodness, allowed us to have their writtings also in order to show us He is the same today, tomorrow, and forever, and that He is the same to all nations, and that He remembers all nations.

The Book of Mormon is my most cherished possession. It is why I am Christian.

Edited by Justice
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:offtopic:

Just curios what version of Christianity you are and what is their take on those born before/or without any idea of Jesus?

There is no" version" and no religion. Just surrender to Jesus. It is called "born again" With all my heart and soul I believe in Jesus. He is the Light. Without Him I am lost.

Read Romans chapter 8 for reference to those who have not heard the gospel. It makes reference to those who do not know the "law".

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I am Christian because I finally saw the Light of Jesus. He is the Light of men and the only way. His blood has made me perfect. My life is His now.

Prison Chaplain, how could you have left out Jesus in your original post?

"How can you say that your religion is the only way?"

To this I would say, Jesus is the only way.

God Bless, Jim

I looked back over my OP and was surprised at that myself. The answer is that I was considering the grand question of religion and GOD. Yes, Jesus is God the Son, and it was his sacrifice--literally his spilt blood--that brought me reconciliation with the Father. Did you also notice that I did not mention sin or my need for a Savior? Interesting too.

Quite often, when people realize religion is worth exploring, it's with the big idea of connecting with God. Only as they approach do they discover that there are issues. Sin separating us from a holy God. So, when people ask me why I'm a Christian, it's not unusual that the issues of sin and Jesus' sacrificial death do not come up in the first five minutes.

Nevertheless, good call Jim. You've got me thinking!

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The LORD has also given me a special divine confirmation that Joseph Smith saw the vision of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in 1820. I sought His confirmation on truth for years before I finally received a witness.

I'm wondering if others tarried for their confirmation for many months, or even years? Is this common?

I believe John Wesley tarried for confirmation of his own salvation. We tarry to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. People sometimes tarry for healings. Just wondering if getting that personal witness of the truth of Joseph Smith's accounts is a common experience for church members?

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For my part, I have considered Joseph Smith's words, where he says things like he saw two beings whose brightness and glory defy all description, and Oliver Cowdery's flowery words trying to explain his joy of seeing an angel blasting the shadows of darkness away, and I am satisfied that I only have words to say what I mean. I lean toward Joseph Smith's style. Description is not possible, so I don't attempt anymore. I'll just get lost in words that don't quite do. I was born in this church, have had every opportunity to leave it, and have decided to stay. My parents and teachers taught me to get a testimony, which in some ways I was born with, but teenage years dimmed that enough for me. I couldn't let go completely until I knew it was true, or knew it wasn't. So I read, and when I was ready to give up, I would come across a passage saying I better be sure because this wasn't a light thing. So I kept on. I would get tired again, no answer like I was taught could be. A few times like this, but I couldnt deny what was millions of other's testimonies, couldn't write it off quite that easily. And the testimony came. Later on my mission, a man gave fantastic reasons why others could claim the same experience that I describe above and belong to other churches. It caused me trouble. I told God that it didn't matter my lineage, what lines went to what pioneers, and other strong members from later, it was irrelevant, if I was leading people astray, let me out of there, or more directly, I will leave, but teach me where to go instead. I would not waste my time, for it either didn't matter at all, or I was not on the right track or helping anyone. The answer received at that time was more than sufficient to stand through whatever came on my mission, and long since. But words are all I have. And I can't prove anything. If I could, where would be the power? In me? I decided long ago I couldn't prove anything, and if I could, that would mean the answer was right here on the earth for all to see and for me to show at will if they would follow and look. As it is, the answer is outside this world, giving us something to reach for if we will have the beginnings of faith. The means of finding it is truly scientific. It is the same for anyone. Why do I stay with this church? I have asked, and God has answered, and I need to be ready to account for this in a positive way, not to my condemnation. Are there scriptures? Sure. Alone they are nothing to me though. Without a testimony, something that confirms to my soul, they are just words. That would be my best answer. I wanted to know, although maybe already knew in an underlying way, and kept at it until I knew, and then there was no turning back. Challenges, sure, but do I know it's true? I do. It's in my heart and being, and mind, but I mention that last on purpose. When my mind has played tricks on me, I have had to hold to my testimony while my whole perception of reality split around me and rewelded, the same, but a little different. When posed with holding to my knowledge or my testimony, I was glad to choose my testimony. That is where the light is. Knowledge without the Spirit is darkness.

I just read over your tarry note. Absolutely. I had to wait, I read of even leaders of the church who had to wait, and there is something to be said for patience. I am satisfied in hindsight that the Lord wasn't going to give me something for the asking, and there had to be some proof that I wanted it in a real way, not superficial before it was given.

So that, in a nutshell, is why I stay with this church.

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Hi PC,

I have always respected and loved your posts and think this deserves the best of responses.

"Why is authority important?" is the crux of the issue and no trite answer about 'Authority feels right' can possibly answer it effectively.

However, before I chose the religion I believed, I studied the bible out as best I could. I started in Genesis and read all the way through, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. God built upon truths, often hinting at what he would bring.

Authority was set by the God of Abraham, introducing the idea of the Levites - A people who were given the authority by God himself. This was reflected in the new testament by Jesus choosing - Not the multitudes which followed him - But 12 Apostles that moved through and preached and taught in his name, having authority.

Now, that does make one ask, 'If authority is necessary, what about John the Baptist? He claimed not to be prophet, nor Elias, nor the Messiah. Does this mean John didn't have Priestly authority to baptize?

Certainly not. It turns out that he was the son of Zacharias and Elizabeth, both of priestly descent (Luke 1:5-25).

This, then, asks the question: Does authority matter after the death of the Saviour? Doesn't Mark 12:6 state that the son is sent last? In fact, doesn't this state implicitly (If not explicitly) that not only authority disappears, but even prophets?

There are answers to these, and I'll post if asked, but this has basically been a wall of text. ;) I'll leave the answers to this until and unless they're needed or wanted, but this is food for thought on why authority might still be needed.

It's rather ironic that for the most part LDS and evangelicals agree that MOST members of the church ought to be authorized priests, anointed by God to represent him to a lost and dying world. The difference is that your church sees that authority being dispensed through a specific lineage, and through a very definite hierarchy. In that you agree with Catholicism. We evangelicals see priestly authority dispensed directly by Christ to the Apostles, to the 70, and, by implication, to all Spirit-filled believers. It is ironic that only at this very moment do I better understand my own church's emphasis on tongues as the initial physical evidence of Spirit-baptism. In essence, it is the sign of authorization from God.

What??? How can GENTILES be priests for God?

But, we can't deny them. After all, they've been baptized in the Holy Spirit. They speak in tongues, just like us.

Perhaps this is worthy of a new string on authority? Otherwise, you can just respond to this post, and we'll see where it goes.

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It's rather ironic that for the most part LDS and evangelicals agree that MOST members of the church ought to be authorized priests, anointed by God to represent him to a lost and dying world. The difference is that your church sees that authority being dispensed through a specific lineage, and through a very definite hierarchy. In that you agree with Catholicism. We evangelicals see priestly authority dispensed directly by Christ to the Apostles, to the 70, and, by implication, to all Spirit-filled believers. It is ironic that only at this very moment do I better understand my own church's emphasis on tongues as the initial physical evidence of Spirit-baptism. In essence, it is the sign of authorization from God.

What??? How can GENTILES be priests for God?

But, we can't deny them. After all, they've been baptized in the Holy Spirit. They speak in tongues, just like us.

Perhaps this is worthy of a new string on authority? Otherwise, you can just respond to this post, and we'll see where it goes.

Oh my gosh, you just reminded me of something about 'Identifying proper authority' that I meant to ask a while. Mark 16:17-18 states:

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

I have personally never seen an exorcism, nor manifestation of tongues, nor have I seen snake-handlers in church, nor anyone drink arsenic in church and comment on its fine nutty flavor. I have seen(And I hesitate to write this simply because it's pretty sacred) miraculous healing, but that is just one of the signs.

What about the remainder of those manifestations? To simply go out and do it to prove you can would be to tempt God, but those are the signs that must manifest to show those that believe.

So I have struggled with this. I have heard tale of Elders performing exorcisms(Though never seen it, so they could be urban legends), and have heard that languages come easier to Missionaries. That still leaves two manifestations I haven't seen.

That makes me ask the question, "What if the many churches are manifestations of God's greatness and will?"

One thing I think is interesting is that in the Old Testament, many of the occurences in there are 'types' or foreshadowing of what is to come: The sacrifice of a perfect Bull is a type hinting at the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, for instance.

Could it be that various churches are the instruments of God and he hinted at their coming? If we examine the Tribes of Israel as a foreshadow of the modern day church, we could look at their blessings and see if we can see their archetype in the modern church.

What follows is pure speculation, endorsed by no Prophet nor anyone I know, but a simple exercise in drawing correlations between ancient text and modern day. It might be meaningful or it might be entirely wrong, so caveat out of the way ahead of time.

If we look at it that way, this would mean there is one Church (As there is one Israel) represented through multiple families. Observing the blessing, that would mean there would be:

A Reubenite Church:“Reuben, you are my firstborn, my might, and the firstfruits of my strength, preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power. Unstable as water, you shall not have preeminence, because you went up toyour father’s bed; then you defiled it—he went up to my couch!" - The firstborn church who might not have been fully faithful to his Father, preeminent in dignity and power. Draw your own conclusions who this could be.

Then, we could look at Simeon and Levite churches: “Simeon and Levi are brothers; weapons of violence are their swords. Let my soul come not into their council; O my glory, be not joined to their company. For in their anger they killed men, and in their willfulness they hamstrung oxen. Cursed be their anger, for it is fierce, and their wrath, for it is cruel! I will divide them in Jacob and scatter them in Israel."

Both of them would be violent churches which, though predating whichever would be the modern and preeminent church, would represent a type of priesthood authority. Not as pre-eminent as the firstborn church, these two would nevertheless preach with a sword.

The fourth blessing is of a Judah-ite church:

“Judah, your brothers shall praise you; your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; your father’s sons shall bow down before you. Judah is a lion’s cub; from the prey, my son, you have gone up. He stooped down; he crouched as a lion and as a lioness; who dares rouse him? The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until tribute comes to him; and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples. Binding his foal to the vine and his donkey’s colt to the choice vine, he has washed his garments in wine and his vesture in the blood of grapes. His eyes are darker than wine, and his teeth whiter than milk."

This church would have to be a powerful church, one that appeared great unto men. I see this as a church of power and influence, with a Godly form. Note the description of his clothing and the care he takes to appear regal. However, despite his apparent vanity, we see he is faithful and lives the life he wants others to make him appear to be.

“Zebulun shall dwell at the shore of the sea; he shall become a haven for ships, and his border shall be at Sidon."

The fifth son we can see 'Dwells at the shore of the sea'. What does this mean? Would the church be based near the sea, or would it mean it was a travelling, worldwide church? Sidon is another name for 'A Fisherie', so this church could be perceived as a diffuse, worldwide church with strong evangelical leanings to spread the faith.

“Issachar is a strong donkey, crouching between the sheepfolds. He saw that a resting place was good, and that the land was pleasant, so he bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant at forced labor."

A church that is a haven of those in bondage, this sixth church could be a church belonging to a people bound in servitude or it could simply be a breakaway church still bound to the original faith, since he saw 'That the land was pleasant'.

Then, come the Danites:

Dan shall judge his people as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse’s heels so that his rider falls backward

This one would be a difficult church to reconcile, because it would be a church that lept upon the others, shouting 'Hypocrisy' and waiting for the slightest misstep. Most likely an unpopular church, this church is not suggested to be worldwide or vast but rather most like a snake in the grass.

"Asher’s food shall be rich, and he shall yield royal delicacies."

This church would be a wealthy church. It isn't said it is particularly wise or faithful, but it doesn't say it -isn't-, either. In fact, it isn't said to be particularly famous, so it might be a wealthy church that is obscure in comparison to the others. 'Royal Delicacies' could be a type hinting at the luxuries in terms of scripture they provide. Perhaps they provide more than is necessary for salvation, or perhaps their thoughts and scriptural commentaries are particularly insightful.

"Raiders shall raid Gad, but he shall raid at their heels."

The Gadite church would be one whose dictums and philosophies of the church are constantly plundered and the church, in turn would plunder others. This would mean it was an evolving church. Since being raided is never a good thing, nor is being a raider, it could suggest that this church is on unstable ground and should be warned.

“Naphtali is a doe let loose that bears beautiful fawns."

The Naphtalian church I do not perceive as being particularly powerful, but the churches it gives birth to are pleasing and faithful. This church might be one that spawned many churches of faith, but that did not itself ever become prominent. After all, a doe is hardly able to protect itself.

“Benjamin is a ravenous wolf, in the morning devouring the prey and at evening dividing the spoil.”

The Benjamite church seems to be a violent church, but might not necessarily be so, since it is also generous. Could this be a type of a church that devours other churches, 'poaching' members from other churches when it is young but, when this church is at its end, loses its members to the others?

Finally, you have Joseph (And by extension Ephraim and Manasseh).

“Joseph is a fruitful bough, a fruitful bough by a spring; his branches run over the wall. The archers bitterly attacked him, shot at him, and harassed him severely, yet his bow remained unmoved; his arms were made agile by the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob (from there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel), by the God of your father who will help you, by the Almighty who will bless you with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that crouches beneath, blessings of the breasts and of the womb. The blessings of your father are mighty beyond the blessings of my parents,up to the bounties of the everlasting hills. May they be on the head of Joseph,and on the brow of him who was set apart from his brothers."

It will seem obvious who I'm suggesting here, but know that's because I happen to be LDS.

This church would be one that was attacked bitterly, but did not become violent. It would have to be a worldwide church as the branch flows over the walls(A suggestion that, though it is an American church, its branches go everywhere?), blessed through times of plenty and adversity. Large families(Blessings of the breasts and womb) and set up in the Everlasting Hills(Specifically: Utah could be a type of the 'Everlasting Hills'). Set apart from his brothers: There is no denying the LDS church is seperate and apart from its brothers.

*****

Now, what does that have to do with authority? Like times of old, Authority was dispensed as by God through Families(Or churches, in the example given above). Each Family is responsible for something else, something that God wanted. The wide variety of churches, at the moment, serves His will, though we are all 'Of the tribe of Israel', or one church.

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It's rather ironic that for the most part LDS and evangelicals agree that MOST members of the church ought to be authorized priests, anointed by God to represent him to a lost and dying world. The difference is that your church sees that authority being dispensed through a specific lineage, and through a very definite hierarchy. In that you agree with Catholicism. We evangelicals see priestly authority dispensed directly by Christ to the Apostles, to the 70, and, by implication, to all Spirit-filled believers. It is ironic that only at this very moment do I better understand my own church's emphasis on tongues as the initial physical evidence of Spirit-baptism. In essence, it is the sign of authorization from God.

What??? How can GENTILES be priests for God?

But, we can't deny them. After all, they've been baptized in the Holy Spirit. They speak in tongues, just like us.

Perhaps this is worthy of a new string on authority? Otherwise, you can just respond to this post, and we'll see where it goes.

I think that my problem with the tongues = authorization" argument is that I see no scriptural evidence of this pattern. I see that tongues (among the rest of the spiritual gifts) follow the believers. I don't see any correlation whatever with ones authorization to baptize, etc. etc. What would the purpose of the 12 and the 70 have been had that Lord not intended to organize his leadership? I think there is more evidence to support the idea of hierarchy than there is an authorization free for all. And if there was, then where are all the women apostles?

I think what is missing here is priesthood keys. Moses held keys as did Elijah. Peter certainly held more keys than other leaders of his time. Priesthood is passed from one authorized holder to the next. It is also clear that there are two levels of priesthood; Melchizidek and Aaronic -- one having more keys than the other. I don't see how ones expression of tongues qualifies them with "parts" or "keys" to this power. It was Moses who got the priesthood from his FIL....not from a tongues experience in the desert.

And I don't see that evidence of a spiritual baptism or "singing the song of redeeming love" as we LDS say, is at all related to authorization to act in the name of God.

I do however see that Christ did want as many as possible to have all the blessings of the gospel. Gentiles who do not come thru the "blood lines" of Israel are adopted in the family of Abraham and therefore, thru righteousness and repentance, become qualified to receive all the blessings of Abraham -- including access to baptism, spiritual gifts, and priesthood authority respectively.

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