Do I have a testimony?

[beefche]

I had an epiphany yesterday while in Sunday School. We were discussing gifts of the Spirit and in particular I read D&C 46:13-14:

13 To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.

14 To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.

I've heard people say that they have never had that "burning in the bosom" regarding a testimony. They have prayed and prayed about whether the Book of Mormon is true, whether Joseph Smith is a prophet, whether Jesus is the Savior, if Jesus loves them and have never received an answer.

As I sat and pondered those verses, I suddenly realized that there are some who will never have an experience to point to and say "THAT is when I knew/believed." Because they have been given a gift from God to believe the scriptures, prophets, their parents, the missionaries, or others in their life.

I was reminded of the conference talk: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Testimony as a Process. In it, he says that "Sometimes we think that to have a testimony of the Church, we need some great, powerful experience, or a single event which would erase any doubts that we have received an answer or a confirmation." He goes on to explain why that isn't always true or even common.

So, to those brothers and sisters seeking truth, I say choose to believe. You choose today to believe and you will receive a witness of the truth. It may not come with angels and singing, but at some point you will realize that you do believe and know. "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." Jesus said this in John 7:17 and I believe Him.

[TeancumsSword]

Good post.

I can not speak of any special experience that led me to know the Book of Mormon is true; I have always just known since my family was introduced to it. It is called the "gift of Knowledge".

[pam]

Beefche that was awesome. I hear all the time of stories where someone had this great spiritual experience that told them "It's true." While I've been a member my entire life I've never had such an experience. I've often times thought it would be great to be a convert. To have something touch me like that to let me know of the truthfullness. To be able to say..That is when I believed. Yet I know without a doubt that all is true. Not once have I ever had even a touch of doubt. For that I am grateful. Nor have I ever considered the notion that perhaps that is a gift.

[Maya]

Thanks Beef realy good thread! I too wonder sometimes where do I fall in. I was not born in the Church, but when I heard about it, I knew before I read the BoM, actually before I even visited the Church. I just knew. I never had a burning in my bossom... Sometimes I think that maybe I joined because I followed my own wishes.... at least that is what different religious groups are told to be folliwing.

I did feel and see my knowledge about gospel growing like a seed becomes a tree... I am not a tree yet, just a small bush. There si soooo much stil to learn... excistence is interesting!

I really cant comprihend it, that I just know.

I am so thankful that I do know!

But why does not my neighbour know? Why is it so difficult for someone?

Maybe I had to choose to know or to be very musical... gggggggrrrrrrrrr

To know is really more important to me here on earth.... but I would have enjoyed beeing a popstar, which I ofcourse, no question about it had been, if I had choosen musicality... but then I might not have been in the Church. So good choise!

[YellowLight]

As I sat and pondered those verses, I suddenly realized that there are some who will never have an experience to point to and say "THAT is when I knew/believed."

That is true, however, there is a very real distinction between knowing something and simply believing it.

So, to those brothers and sisters seeking truth, I say choose to believe. You choose today to believe and you will receive a witness of the truth. It may not come with angels and singing, but at some point you will realize that you do believe and know. "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." Jesus said this in John 7:17 and I believe Him.

If I immersed myself and simply chose to believe that Islam is true and lived according to its rules and belief system, over time I might receive a witness of the truth. There are around 4 million active members of the LDS faith while there are many more millions if not billions of people of different faiths who believe and know that their faith is the one true path to God. So, that logic doesn't fair too well with me. Believing something does not make it true.

[OtterPop]

Is the promise in Moroni 10 real or not? If so, we are all entitled to a witness. If not, then it really doesn't matter.

[bytebear]

Is the promise in Moroni 10 real or not? If so, we are all entitled to a witness. If not, then it really doesn't matter.

I think a testimony of the Book of Mormon falls into the second category. You believe the words of others who testify of Christ. I know that I have met people who already knew the Gospel was true before they even heard about the church. They just knew, and they were actively seeking the church which taught the truth that they already know. So, I don't think it is that you don't get a witness from the Holy Ghost, but that some people out there already have that witness, but just don't know how to apply it until they find the church. For the rest of us, we have to study, ponder and pray to gain the same testimony.

[OtterPop]

. . . and some of us have studied, pondered, prayed, have done everything we were asked and still did not gain a testimony. That's my point.

[Palerider]

I think that alot of us have had that witness.....I think the spirit has testified to us that those things are true.....problem is...alot of people do not know it or recognize it.....we are not patient enough to sit and ponder......just my opinion....

[OtterPop]

Palerider,

I don't think you were responding to my post, because we posted at the same time, but I want to point out that Moroni 10 gives responsibilities and conditions that the seeker must meet -- but patience isn't one of them.

[Palerider]

Palerider,

I don't think you were responding to my post, because we posted at the same time, but I want to point out that Moroni 10 gives responsibilities and conditions that the seeker must meet -- but patience isn't one of them.

you don't think in order to "ponder"....you would need patience to sit still quietly and ponder.....

[Palerider]

Ponder means to meditate or reflect.......

[Pintail]

That is true, however, there is a very real distinction between knowing something and simply believing it.

If I immersed myself and simply chose to believe that Islam is true and lived according to its rules and belief system, over time I might receive a witness of the truth. There are around 4 million active members of the LDS faith while there are many more millions if not billions of people of different faiths who believe and know that their faith is the one true path to God. So, that logic doesn't fair too well with me. Believing something does not make it true.

I concur. This falls in line with the nature of human conditioning.

[BenRaines]

I have taught for many years that there are gifts as mentioned in Doctrine & Covenants. For some it is to know for others to believe on the testimony of those who know. This is a perfect example of why people should not stress if they do not know. Sure they can come to know but that may not be their first gift. For years I believed on the testimonies of those who knew until I came to have my own and my own confirmation of truth.

Ben Raines

[NeuroTypical]

Our just-barely-released Bishop's testimony is one of the most bare-bones testimonies I've ever heard. As a teenager, he was thanking God while observing a pretty sunset, and he heard the words "I'll always take care of you". That's it. According to him, that's about the sum total of his spiritual experiences, even during his 5 years as Bishop. That experience has carried him for 20 years.

I've felt the burning in the bosom on many occasions. One time, I was even able to switch it on and off like a light by praying "Lord, should I do this thing?" [burning on] "Lord should I not do this thing?" [burning off] [repeat]. I guess I needed that level of clarity that I was receiving divine inspiration at the time.

There are similarities among our experiences, but yeah, there are a lot of different ways in which we can come to a testimony.

LM

[Gargantuan]

I had an epiphany yesterday while in Sunday School. We were discussing gifts of the Spirit and in particular I read D&C 46:13-14:

13 To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.

14 To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.

I've heard people say that they have never had that "burning in the bosom" regarding a testimony. They have prayed and prayed about whether the Book of Mormon is true, whether Joseph Smith is a prophet, whether Jesus is the Savior, if Jesus loves them and have never received an answer.

As I sat and pondered those verses, I suddenly realized that there are some who will never have an experience to point to and say "THAT is when I knew/believed." Because they have been given a gift from God to believe the scriptures, prophets, their parents, the missionaries, or others in their life.

I was reminded of the conference talk: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Testimony as a Process. In it, he says that "Sometimes we think that to have a testimony of the Church, we need some great, powerful experience, or a single event which would erase any doubts that we have received an answer or a confirmation." He goes on to explain why that isn't always true or even common.

So, to those brothers and sisters seeking truth, I say choose to believe. You choose today to believe and you will receive a witness of the truth. It may not come with angels and singing, but at some point you will realize that you do believe and know. "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." Jesus said this in John 7:17 and I believe Him.

Thank you for your message on faith. As I read your words, I was brought back to a time when I struggled with my faith. During my growing up years, I had always felt the Restored Gospel to be absolutely true, but I had never had a sublime spiritual experience that let me know it was true. It was kinda disappointing to me, not to receive some sort of special witness or a spiritual manifestation.

I really wanted to know within my heart that the Restored Gospel was true. I prayed and nothing happened to let me know. I studied the scriptures and still no manifestation or unique burning of the bosom. At that time, the lack of a witness made me feel very unworthy.

In my scripture readings, I learned about those who seek after a sign before they will believe and I wondered if I was a sign seeker. I didn't want to be one, so I studied more intently and prayed without wanting to receive a special sign or manifestation. I just wanted to know what the scriptures were telling me.

Gradually, the more I read the scriptures and prayed the more I began to appreciate the scared texts. Occasionally, peace and security would come to me during and after I experienced a prayerful encounter with my scripture reading. I attributed this feeling to be a confidence I had gained through increased knowledge.

I didn't experience a special spiritual manifestation. I really never had one, but sometimes by exercising a tiny bit of faith and desiring to believe I felt good when hearing another person testify of the value of Gospel truth's in their own life. I believed on their words and testimony. However, I had Gospel questions and because of that I was motivated to continue to read and ponder the scriptures. Over time, it became easier for me to understand the holy text. I gained an increased understanding of the Gospel without a single special manifestation of its truth. Gradually, I realized I didn't need one. I knew it was true as I know now.

[Gargantuan]

Thank you for your message on faith. As I read your words, I was brought back to a time when I struggled with my faith. During my growing up years, I had always felt the Restored Gospel to be absolutely true, but I had never had a sublime spiritual experience that let me know it was true. It was very disappointing to me, not to receive some sort of special witness or a spiritual manifestation.

I really wanted to know within my heart that the Restored Gospel was true. I prayed and nothing happened to let me know. I studied the scriptures and still no manifestation or unique burning of the bosom. At that time, the lack of a witness made me feel very unworthy.

In my scripture readings, I learned about those who seek after a sign before they will believe and I wondered if I was a sign seeker. I didn't want to be one, so I studied more intently and prayed without wanting to receive a special sign or manifestation. I just wanted to know what the scriptures were telling me.

Gradually, the more I read the scriptures and prayed the more I began to appreciate the scared texts. Occasionally, peace and security would come to me during and after I experienced a prayerful encounter with my scripture reading. I attributed this feeling to be a confidence I had gained through increased knowledge.

I didn't experience a special spiritual manifestation. I really never had one, but sometimes by exercising a tiny bit of faith and desiring to believe I felt good when hearing another person testify of the value of Gospel truth's in their own life. I believed on their words and testimony. However, I had Gospel questions and because of that I was motivated to continue to read and ponder the scriptures. Over time, it became easier for me to understand the holy text. I gained an increased understanding of the Gospel without a single special manifestation of its truth. Gradually, I realized I didn't need one. I knew it was true as I know now.

[Gargantuan]

I had an epiphany yesterday while in Sunday School. We were discussing gifts of the Spirit and in particular I read D&C 46:13-14:

13 To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.

14 To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.

I've heard people say that they have never had that "burning in the bosom" regarding a testimony. They have prayed and prayed about whether the Book of Mormon is true, whether Joseph Smith is a prophet, whether Jesus is the Savior, if Jesus loves them and have never received an answer.

As I sat and pondered those verses, I suddenly realized that there are some who will never have an experience to point to and say "THAT is when I knew/believed." Because they have been given a gift from God to believe the scriptures, prophets, their parents, the missionaries, or others in their life.

I was reminded of the conference talk: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Testimony as a Process. In it, he says that "Sometimes we think that to have a testimony of the Church, we need some great, powerful experience, or a single event which would erase any doubts that we have received an answer or a confirmation." He goes on to explain why that isn't always true or even common.

So, to those brothers and sisters seeking truth, I say choose to believe. You choose today to believe and you will receive a witness of the truth. It may not come with angels and singing, but at some point you will realize that you do believe and know. "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." Jesus said this in John 7:17 and I believe Him.

I'm not sure if I'm posting this correctly. If not correct, I'm very sorry and will learn how to do this right eventually. Gar

Thank you for your message on faith. As I read your words, I was brought back to a time when I struggled with my faith. During my growing up years, I had always felt the Restored Gospel to be absolutely true, but I had never had a sublime spiritual experience that let me know it was true. It was very disappointing to me, not to receive some sort of special witness or a spiritual manifestation.

I really wanted to know within my heart that the Restored Gospel was true. I prayed and nothing happened to let me know. I studied the scriptures and still no manifestation or unique burning of the bosom. At that time, the lack of a witness made me feel very unworthy.

In my scripture readings, I learned about those who seek after a sign before they will believe and I wondered if I was a sign seeker. I didn't want to be one, so I studied more intently and prayed without wanting to receive a special sign or manifestation. I just wanted to know what the scriptures were telling me.

Gradually, the more I read the scriptures and prayed the more I began to appreciate the scared texts. Occasionally, peace and security would come to me during and after I experienced a prayerful encounter with my scripture reading. I attributed this feeling to be a confidence I had gained through increased knowledge.

I didn't experience a special spiritual manifestation. I really never had one, but sometimes by exercising a tiny bit of faith and desiring to believe I felt good when hearing another person testify of the value of Gospel truth's in their own life. I believed on their words and testimony. However, I had Gospel questions and because of that I was motivated to continue to read and ponder the scriptures. Over time, it became easier for me to understand the holy text. I gained an increased understanding of the Gospel without a single special manifestation of its truth. Gradually, I realized I didn't need one. I knew it was true as I know now.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Gargantuan
Punctuation error

[Hemidakota]

I had an epiphany yesterday while in Sunday School. We were discussing gifts of the Spirit and in particular I read D&C 46:13-14:

13 To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.

14 To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.

I've heard people say that they have never had that "burning in the bosom" regarding a testimony. They have prayed and prayed about whether the Book of Mormon is true, whether Joseph Smith is a prophet, whether Jesus is the Savior, if Jesus loves them and have never received an answer.

There is something not right in our lives that prevents us in obtaining this moment. We need to re-evaluate our standing to find out why. Once we discovery it, then it will happen as promised by the prophets of the past.

As I sat and pondered those verses, I suddenly realized that there are some who will never have an experience to point to and say "THAT is when I knew/believed." Because they have been given a gift from God to believe the scriptures, prophets, their parents, the missionaries, or others in their life.

Yes! In the beginning of borrowing someones else's light is a start but should not be the end goal though.

I was reminded of the conference talk: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Testimony as a Process. In it, he says that "Sometimes we think that to have a testimony of the Church, we need some great, powerful experience, or a single event which would erase any doubts that we have received an answer or a confirmation." He goes on to explain why that isn't always true or even common.

So, to those brothers and sisters seeking truth, I say choose to believe. You choose today to believe and you will receive a witness of the truth. It may not come with angels and singing, but at some point you will realize that you do believe and know. "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." Jesus said this in John 7:17 and I believe Him.

It starts with a desire and then hope in obtaining a confirmation of truth, whether it is by the Holy Ghost or by a divine witness. Joseph Smith taught that all Saints should seek a personal witness of Godhead. I do concur with his assessment. There is a unique bonding with those across the veil when this occurs in our lives. It lasts a life time through fires of trials and time of despair. If we are comfortable on our current state of a testimony, then we have a problem.

[Soul_Searcher]

This post is very timely for me as I have been thinking a lot about this the past week or so. Im having huge problems with my lack of testimony, and I feel I have never had this spiritual witness or burning in the bosom that so many talk about. This is probably the basis for me struggling with my faith at the moment. I like your post Gargantuan, but my problem is that the scriptures actually tell us that we will feel this way if we pray and ask. So if you dont, does that mean that scripture is wrong, you are not doing it right, or the church isnt true???

I'm having to re-classify my definition of a 'testimony' in order to be able to stay in the church and make it work and be happy. I am happy with believeing the church is true for now. I really doubt that I or anyone can KNOW as like another poster said, every member of other religions can claim to know too. I like the churches plan for life. It is good in theory although I think there are holes in some situations that the plan of salvation doesn't account for. However, I think that if any church is true, ours is the closest thing to a 'true' religion and I'm happy to believe it. But I don't think I can, or will ever, know.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Soul_Searcher

[Gargantuan]

Dear Soul Searcher,

You are on the right track. Please stay on it. Please accept the challenge God has given to you by continuing to pray and study the scriptures. A Testimony is a gift when you finally receive it. But, your inner strength to gain in knowing the Church is true won't come as an easy gift. The great result is that it will be a priceless and cherished gift to you and you will want to share it with everyone else.

Regards, Gar

[Gargantuan]

You are on the right track. Please stay on it. Please accept the challenge God has given to you by continuing to pray and study the scriptures. A Testimony is a gift when you finally receive it. But, your inner strength to gain in knowing the Church is true won't come as an easy gift. The great result is that it will be a priceless and cherished gift to you and you will want to share it with everyone else.

[Ammoclip]

I believe that if you meditate and fast, the lord will answer your question if you 'try' hard enough.

[Misshalfway]

This post is very timely for me as I have been thinking a lot about this the past week or so. Im having huge problems with my lack of testimony, and I feel I have never had this spiritual witness or burning in the bosom that so many talk about. This is probably the basis for me struggling with my faith at the moment. I like your post Gargantuan, but my problem is that the scriptures actually tell us that we will feel this way if we pray and ask. So if you dont, does that mean that scripture is wrong, you are not doing it right, or the church isnt true???

I'm having to re-classify my definition of a 'testimony' in order to be able to stay in the church and make it work and be happy. I am happy with believeing the church is true for now. I really doubt that I or anyone can KNOW as like another poster said, every member of other religions can claim to know too. I like the churches plan for life. It is good in theory although I think there are holes in some situations that the plan of salvation doesn't account for. However, I think that if any church is true, ours is the closest thing to a 'true' religion and I'm happy to believe it. But I don't think I can, or will ever, know.

I think that sometimes we look to the gaining of a testimony as "an event" and I suppose for some it is. Or maybe it is the event that gets them started, like the gun at the beginning of the race. But, my experience is that we are all in process and that our testimonies are in process too -- ever expanding. I look back at my past spiritual experiences with much more clarity than I see the future or even the today I sit in now as I type this.

If the scriptures are true, then belief leads to something bigger. It is not the end of the promise or the meagerness of some gift dispensed to the rest of us. Obedience is the key ( for all) that unlocks light and God ALWAYS delivers on His promises to give more and more light as we move on his straight and narrow path. And as I have needed to learn over and over, Faith is the essential something that I needed to use to get my feet to move in obedience. Believe me, it wasn't sure knowledge. That knowledge stuff is what came after I proved myself on the murky way.

Testimony comes a little bit at a time and in lots of different ways. The burning in the bosom ---- goodness! That is only one way the Holy Ghost shows us the truth. Open your mind and heart to the possibilities and allow God to show you in His own time and in His proper wisdom for you and your life. As that somewhat cheesy mormon song says....."Hold on, hold on. The Light WILL come."

[Gargantuan]

The Lord can't force you to learn or understand what you haven't prepared your mind to accept. That's why studying the scriptures is so important. After you read a scripture verse, then meditation or pondering will be relative to your questions. Your mind will understand the Gospel better and the Holy Ghost will be able to teach you previously misunderstood Gospel concepts. Fasting about your questions or ideas will help draw you closer to the holy spirit of personal inspiration. Regards, Gar