Heavenly Mother


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.....We are commanded to worship our F-ther in H-aven. No one else, not even our S-viour to whom we owe everything. Why complicate the stupefying?...

Divine Savior and Redeemer

None so great has ever walked the earth. None other has made a comparable sacrifice or granted a comparable blessing. He is the Savior and the Redeemer of the world. I believe in Him. I declare His divinity without equivocation or compromise. I love Him. I speak His name in reverence and wonder. I worship Him as I worship His Father, in spirit and in truth. I thank Him and kneel before His wounded feet and hands and side, amazed at the love He offers me. (Gordon B. Hinckley, “In These Three I Believe,” Liahona, Jul 2006, 2–8)

M.

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Kinda like the way you treat folks on this site and elsewhere, when they don't kowtow to "your view of Doctrine".

Paul and Maggie Toscano are brilliant people, erudite and very conversant in all manner of LDS thought. Neither you nor I know why the were ex'd, except for the version of the excommunication they choose to put out in the public.

I don't believe that the OP said or posted anything negative about Toscano, of course that didn't stop you from posting your typical negative defense of anyone connected with the infamous September Six.

Say; do you know the word that corresponds to this definition: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings?

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Divine Savior and Redeemer

None so great has ever walked the earth. None other has made a comparable sacrifice or granted a comparable blessing. He is the Savior and the Redeemer of the world. I believe in Him. I declare His divinity without equivocation or compromise. I love Him. I speak His name in reverence and wonder. I worship Him as I worship His Father, in spirit and in truth. I thank Him and kneel before His wounded feet and hands and side, amazed at the love He offers me. (Gordon B. Hinckley, “In These Three I Believe,” Liahona, Jul 2006, 2–8)

M.

Right (and nice post by the way), but we still don't pray to him.
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It is my understanding that because of the fall of man we are all cut off from the society of heaven and all other things presided over by our Father in heaven. All that we have as fallen beings is the mediator – therefore because of the fall we know of nothing other than our mediator G-d and that heaven over which he presides. All things concerning our Father in Heaven and his kingdom are of no consequence or meaning – only the mediator and this is because we are fallen. And through the mediator can we know the truth of anything eternal. To speak or teach of anything beyond the Christ and his gospel is not within our right or authority – weather it be to say there is or is not an eternal mother in Heaven.

The Traveler

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I can tell you that I have met her and talked with her at some length. She knows a heck of a lot more about the gospel than the majority of the posters her

The gospel is the teachings of the good news of Jesus Christ and how his atonement can save us from our sins, if we submit to his will.

Ms. Toscano has seemingly put her own desires ahead of the instruction of her Priesthood leaders, and thus has been cut off from the kingdom of God, apparently without sufficient effort or desire to conform to the teachings and instructions of the leadership of that kingdom to merit readmittance.

The majority of posters here are not cut off from the kingdom of God.

Therefore, it appears you are wrong. In any useful, saving sense, Ms. Toscano appears to know far less about the gospel than the majority of the posters here.

- and has a lot healthier attitude on a number of things to boot.

Meaning she agrees with you, I suppose.

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I love how McConkie defines Knowledge vs. Intelligence

Satan is very knowledgeable, but he has no intelligence.

No offense to Bruce but unless he had directly knew Lucifer, he was indeed was intelligible. Now, if not how did managed to persuade more than 80-90 percent of the children? But only after the efforts of those who kept the first estate saved what they could from this brother and thus only a third was lost.

Neither was Lucifer was privy to other councils since his fallen state; noting the absence of knowledge at the Garden of Eden.

Edited by Hemidakota
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Bytebear was correct, at least in the sense that we as a people have not been given detailed information about our heavenly Mother.

Now, if you're suggesting that you personally have received some great revelations in your life about her and her role, well, bully for you. That does not change the fact that little about her beyond the fact of her existence has been revealed to the Church (that is, to us -- we haven't been vouchsafed that information).

Like always, I may well be wrong. If so, please point out the revelations that we as a Church and people have been given about our heavenly Mother, so that I and others may enjoy this revealed knowledge that has so far escaped us. Or if I've misunderstood your point entirely, please accept my apology in advance and have another shot at explaining your point.

To me I find this quite offensive when I do see the word "WE" as you seen already. The problem of not knowing it as a church doctrine or principle, is the lack of spiritual maturity in the church as a whole. I do feel for Joseph in his last days of life, when even he cannot expand many areas of doctrines and principles when the church itself was lacking the necessary faith to accept it.

It is not bullying but pointing out something that require correction. When ever there is a statement - NO, THAT IS NOT CORRECT from me, this means there is truth here that requires personal research in order obtain a personal testimony. As I don't expect the church at the current state, to receive such as whole. ;)

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Of course anything we discuss about Heavenly Mother is speculation or just personal experience because there is no official doctrine in our canon about Her that I am aware of. (Other than the recent Family Proclamation that mentions Heavenly Parents in the plural.)

My own conjecture is that in our traditional family roles of father, mother, son, daughter, we are approximating as near as we can on this earth the way it is in the highest heavens.

Those who have contemplated at length about what they will be actually DOING in their exalted state I think will soon come to the understanding that we will be functioning as PARENTS, creating and raising spirit grandchildren for our own Heavenly Parents. That's probably not for everyone, but personally I could think of no greater joy than being a PERFECT husband and a PERFECT father...

That's how I see it.

Edited by justamere10
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We have the capacity to not only to harness enough faith to listen and apply from the teachings of the Lord's Servants; do have the same capacity to know for ourselves the same truths as any dispensational prophet. To all, you have this ability within and can stand upon your own solid foundation of many truths, those within the church and those that can be expanded for a greater clarity. Never cut yourself short on your abilities as children of GOD, whether in the LDS church or those who are not.

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We have the capacity to not only to harness enough faith to listen and apply from the teachings of the Lord's Servants; do have the same capacity to know for ourselves the same truths as any dispensational prophet. To all, you have this ability within and can stand upon your own solid foundation of many truths, those within the church and those that can be expanded for a greater clarity. Never cut yourself short on your abilities as children of GOD, whether in the LDS church or those who are not.

Good counsel Hemi, thanks.
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See what I mean by her relative to you.

You somehow equate being knowledgeable and logical with not being excommunicated.

While I cannot condone the systematic dehumanization and demonization of every excommunicated member of the Church, I'm baffled by your approach there Snow.

You are claiming that Margaret Toscano is:

1.) A better person than everyone here.

2.) A smarter person than everyone here.

3.) Has a better attitude about the gospel than everyone here.

You say you've met and talked with Margaret Toscano. Good for you. You've never met and talked with everyone on this forum. So I would submit to you that you don't know what the hell you're talking about by making such comparisons.

The woman was excommunicated. I don't know all the details, but I know that she hasn't rejoined the Church at any point. While her attitude might be lovely (in your ever so not humble opinion), that detail strikes me as not having a very good attitude at all -- or at least not having the correct attitude. She may be good in many aspects, but she is not humbling herself when she ought to. Logic and knowledge often lead to pride and it is pride that keeps such people from admitting their errors and working toward re baptism. I sincerely hope that she does eventually do so of course.

More than anything, I'm puzzled by your gallant efforts to insult everyone in sight over this. Why?

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IMHO

Margaret Toscano was anyway not the MG. So we can move on from her. She is excommunicated and that shows she did something that was not good. I hope she will relise what went wrong and find her way back and that members of LDS church will welcome her when the time comes, if it comes, without judgeing her any more. We are here to lead people to the truth not to judge. Those excommunicated have already got their punishment.

Earlier when talking about MG I never tought that mentioning G in stead of Hevenly Mother would to many mean that MG should also be worshipped but HM would be an other thing, a mother, not G. I never tought of the worshiping part for MG using G more like a lastname. I been thinking of that and understand my mistake which was to think MG alike HM. Like someone here said ... my bad one...

Actually this made me notice that OP really ment Hevenly Mother and not MG!

Just a total UFO ideas: When you think of the worship of Mary in the Catholic Church... it makes me wonder what the early catholic members knew of Mary that we dont and why was this not told on. Or is it that it was told on but miss understood. Also what has this to do with an eatly belief of that God had two wifes, the other a spirit wife the other a exhalted (uh I bet I speelled that wrong). Could Mary have been the spiritwife who came here to give birt to their child?

I know many believe that Josef and Mary had sex later, a usual family, and Jesus got brothers and sisters. What if Josef never laid his hand on her, as he knew who she was? What if Jesus brothers and sisters were from Josephs marriage to his wife who died? Why the scriptures do not mention Joseph in the wedding in Cana? Was he dead already? Why would Jesus give his mother to one of the deciples, was it not obvious his brother would take care of her? Maybe because there was no blodline between his brothers and him? Kind of funny thing to be worried of when hanging on across, especially if one has blodbrothers!

Also the worshipping of Mary tok off a bit in the Catholic church, where they even pray her. Could it be that the muntial heritage of Mary told a partly true story about who she really was? I can easily see the eagerness of people to worship Mary for her status as a mother of Jesus Christ and even more as a wife of G.

Maybe Josef was just an old goodharted man who got a huge task from G to take care of worlds saviour and his mother.......

Just some toughts according to what I have read and heard, that may be totally in the forest, or partly right..... just an IMHO

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Just a total UFO ideas: When you think of the worship of Mary in the Catholic Church... it makes me wonder what the early catholic members knew of Mary that we dont and why was this not told on. Or is it that it was told on but miss understood.

I think about things like that too...

like what's with holy water? Is it something that hasn't been revealed in the latter-days yet? Or, truly an apostate thing? With consecrated oil, holy water doesn't seem that far fetched. It seems Satan has control of the waters right now (is why missionaries can't get in it), so I wonder if when this control is lost if holy water won't be revealed?

Just random thoughts. I'm cursed with them, and they really don't mean anything.

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I think about things like that too...

like what's with holy water? Is it something that hasn't been revealed in the latter-days yet? Or, truly an apostate thing? With consecrated oil, holy water doesn't seem that far fetched. It seems Satan has control of the waters right now (is why missionaries can't get in it), so I wonder if when this control is lost if holy water won't be revealed?

Just random thoughts. I'm cursed with them, and they really don't mean anything.

Water is not just holy to Catholics, water is holy to Latter-day Saints and throughout Christiandom. Baptism by water is how we enter the Kingdom of God.

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3: 5

John 3

"That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory;" Moses 6: 59

Moses 6

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Excerpts from a few old pamphlets of the church that deals with Heavenly Mother topic:

Improvement Era 1950

Along with gifts of love, sincerity, and appreciation for the good things of life and all the things I hope to have in my hope chest some day. I shall be partially prepared to become a wife and mother here and in the life to come. My prayer is that I may have my spiritual hope chest well stocked with those things which are necessary for a happy married life, and also with those little extra 'articles which add so much color to everyday living. Who knows but what some day I may be a ...

Improvement Era 1936

O MY FATHER," by Eliza R. Snow, is considered one of the greatest of all Latter-day Saint hymns, because of its unusual doctrinal content, especially that contained in the third stanza. This remarkable verse projects a new thought into religious philosophy; namely, that we have a heavenly mother in the courts on high.

Improvement Era 1925

Woman, in the view of the "Mormons," is the equal companion of man. They accept literally, and often quote, the statement of Paul, "Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." They do not however accept his statement that "women should keep silence in the churches," for their women often preach from the same pulpit as the men. The only thing denied them is the Priesthood, but even this the wife shares in a manner with her husband. "Mormon" women were...

Imrpovement Era 1907

On the doctrine of the Godhead these Christian gentlemen, our reviewers, think that the statement of the Address to the effect that we believe in the Godhead, comprising the three individual personages-Father, Son and Holy Ghost-is a declaration that will not perhaps suggest Tritheism or materialism to Christians unfamiliar with "Mormon" "theological terms." "But," they continue, "when the full doctrine of the Deity, as taught in 'Mormon' congregations, is known, it will at once be seen that ...

Imrpovement Era 1907

One other item in which we offend these reverend gentlemen is that we believe Jesus had a Father as well as a mother. Now, gentlemen, honestly, is it any worse for him to have had a Father than it is for him to have had a mother? You concede that he had a mother; that his body grew as yours did, in the womb of his mother; that he came forth of the womb by birth pains; that he suckled at the breast of woman; that through the months and years of infant weakness he wa...

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