Green Tea & Green Tea Extract

[physicsdude]

My mission in Mexico was long, long ago (20 years), but I do remember distinctly that what we taught was not to drink 'te negro'. I think that other types of tea, aside from black tea, were much more common in Mexico, Thus the specificity.

As to the argument "same plant, same WoW application",

grapes - wine,

potatoes - vodka,

corn -moonshine,

grain - beer ...

I think I make my point.

I didn't even realize that green, white, and black tea all came from the same plant.

As there seems to be no non-apocryphal official statement, I think this one probably falls under the 'pray about it and find out for yourself, cause the general authorities are not going to make all our decisions for us' category, just like tithing pretax or post tax, what is or is not appropriate on the sabbath, etc.

This is a great thread. It has given me a lot to think about.

Matt Brown

[Moksha]

The temperature of drinks being harmful is not a myth.

I agree. I was thinking of temperatures in a more moderate heat range. Something scalding hot enough to cause thermal injuries is definitely harmful.

I remember Mom having me blow in the soup spoon till it was cooled down enough for me to ingest the soup.

[marshac]

I agree. I was thinking of temperatures in a more moderate heat range. Something scalding hot enough to cause thermal injuries is definitely harmful.

Exactly my thoughts. As for cancer, it's probably similar to what happens in Barrett's esophagus where chronic stomach acid exposure slowly induces a chance in the cells lining the esophagus- minor damage accumulating over time- sounds pretty similar to repeated exposure to scalding hot liquid.

[sd22]

The church leaders have really dug themselves into a hole just like the pharisees did on these issues. I drink green tea. I'm not going to stop.

[john doe]

I wasn't aware the church ruled decisively on the green tea issue. Can you point me to a link?

[bnaur]

All herbs were ordained for the use of man. There is a substantial difference between green tea and black tea. They both are derived from the same herb (plant) but the fermentation process is not healthy and destroys the health benefits from 'green tea' which is not fermented.

On April 7, 1868, the Mormon Apostle George Q. Cannon stated that chocolate drinks and hot soups were forbidden. How do we reconcile this over time?

Here is what I know, I have health problems, green tea helps alleviate substantially. Now I can go get on some serious medication with less effect and benefit than green tea. I do not drink black tea, and I really wish green tea did not work (I actually hate the taste). But the benefits for me are real and every time I feel guilty enough to quit, my health problems bring me back. Now I know many of Mormons that are prescribed some seriously unhealthy drugs and no one questions that. But green tea.... verbotten and no one seems to care if its is solving a health problem.

WebMD says this about green tea: More than a decade's worth of research about green tea's health benefits -- particularly its potential to fight cancer and heart disease -- has been more than intriguing, as have limited studies about green tea's role in lowering cholesterol, burning fat, preventing diabetes and stroke, and staving off dementia.

No one is recommending black tea, I don't recommend coffee, caffeine is not the issue here. But I do drink hot chocolate, soup and yes, I am afraid I drink green tea. Maybe I will quit again today and die early but honorable.

[Guest saintish]

BTW, did they ever discontinue selling hot drinks at the Red Brick Store?

I believe the redbrick store is owned by the CofC, and as i found out when i visited a CofC congregation, they do not consider the word of wisdom to be binding.

[Wildflower]

I don't get why the term 'hot drinks' isn't interpreted for what it says.....hot drinks. Studies have shown that hot drinks are associated with an increased risk of cancer, and that is enough validation for me. It makes perfect sense. But the way that church leaders have interpreted 'hot drinks' has lead to all kinds of various interpretations and confusion. This tea yes, that tea no, no tea at all, soft drinks yes, soft drinks no, caffeine is ok, caffeine is not ok, caffeine is ok in some scenarios, but not others, hot chocolate no, hot chocolate yes, coffee no. I disagree with the church stance and interpretation of something that in and of itself is right on point. Perhaps in trying to offer expanded guidance it became adulterated it in the process. The doctrine could not be spelled out in a more straight forward way.

[Wingnut]

Here's the interpretation: Hot drinks = coffee and tea. There is no specific instruction otherwise. We are generally counseled to avoid things that are harmful and/or addictive to our bodies.

[marshac]

It's too bad old threads can't stay 'dead'... I was thinking "this sounds familiar"... and then was like "not this again"... and then saw MY face and was like "wha? I don't remember writing that"... I guess I did... over a year ago. Bnaur, I applaud your desire as a new member to go back and read old threads, but you might check the freshness date before replying. Also- are you drinking the tea for anxiety by any chance? If so, the ingredient you seek is L-Theanine which can be purchased as a supplement. :)

We have a member in our ward that drinks bishop sanctioned coffee because it contains theobromine which helps with his COPD... he even has a Rx for it.

[Blackmarch]

I am really interested in getting some feedback on this. This thread is inspired from the recent popularity of Green Tea and its health benefits that are advertised.

From what I understand, "hot drinks" in Doctrine and Covenants 89:9 has been interpreted specifically to be coffee and tea. I have heard and read from other LDS members that believed that "tea" refers to "Black Tea" simply because the "hot drinks" of Joseph Smiths day were in fact coffee and Black Tea. Herbal teas have been deemed permissible. I have spoken to a few LDS who were under the assumption that Green Tea is classified as an herbal tea and that drinking it does not violate the Word of Wisdom.

A fact that some may not be aware of is that Green Tea is produced from the Camellia Sinensis, which is the same plant that Black Tea is produced from. White Tea and Oolong Tea are also products of this plant. The difference from one Camellia Sinensis tea to another is dependant upon how the leaves are processed. Although each come from the same plant, they are not the same product.

My question is this: Should we avoid Camellia Sinensis altogether or only the Black Tea that is produced from it? I am not aware of any statement from a General Authority on this issue. I am curious if anyone else could shed some light on this.

Another topic in question is Green Tea Extract. I have done a limited amount of research on this product. As I understand it, there are various methods of obtaining the extract. Would certain extracts be a permissible way of consuming the antioxidants, vitamins and obtaining other health benefits associated with Green Tea (some use it as a weight loss supplement)?

On a BYU website, the Word of Wisdom is defined as follows:

word of wisdom - a name given to Joseph Smith’s revelation on health, contained in D & C 89. Past and present prophets of the church have clearly stated that the following are proscribed by this revelation: alcohol, tobacco, coffee, black tea, and illegal drugs. Following the word of wisdom is a requirement for obtaining a temple recommend as well as for being baptized.

source: Glossary

A few other of many sources defining "tea" as "Black Tea":

Teas | Times & Seasons, An Onymous Mormon Blog

LDS FAQ: Fulfilled Prophecies of Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet

JENNIFER

DIANE

Mormon Family

The Freelance Observer: Breaking Rules or Breaking Babies: LDS vs. FLDS Mormon Church

As of yet, I have not read any official statement from a prophet defining "tea" as "Black Tea" but it is obvious that many members have interpreted it to be so under the fact that "Black Tea" was the tea of Joseph Smith's era and herbal teas are ok.

I have also found a quote from Victor L. Ludlow, a BYU religion professor who states:

“The Word of Wisdom counsels against drinking “hot drinks,” which have been identified by early Church leaders as coffee and tea. “Tea” refers to the standard tea derived from the tea plant, sometimes called black tea or green tea. The Word of Wisdom has not been interpreted as proscribing herbal teas, stating that “all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man (D&C 89:10)” (Victor L. Ludlow, Principles and Practices of the Restored Gospel, p.434).

As it seems, there is some confusion among LDS members regarding this matter. This was what inspired me to post this blog.

I have been curious of the health benefits associated with Green Tea Extract but have decided to avoid it simply because it is produced from Camellia Sinensis. Until an official statement is made, I feel that tea is tea if it comes from the "tea plant". I am intersted in any facts, quotes, opinions, etc. on this subject.

Thanks,

Chris

well supposedly theres health benefits to drinking certain alcoholic beverages.

THere are enough other healthy foods in the world, some which can provide the same or similar benefits of whatever tea has to offer, in that one does not have to break the command to not drink tea.

[bnaur]

So Wildflower, you agree with this : On April 7, 1868, the Mormon Apostle George Q. Cannon stated that chocolate drinks and hot soups were forbidden.

So any hot liquid is not good for you? A lot of people think cold liquid is not good for you also, I have several friends who refuse ice in there drinks for health reasons (seriously funny).

Being real, studies on both hot and cold cause no harm whatsoever. If you realize how the digestive system works you would conclude that the temperature is normalized to 98.6 very quickly no matter what temp you put it in as. Temperature is not indicative of health.

As far as green tea and black tea having the same ingredients, I would say grapes and wine have the same ingredients. But just like black tea is fermented, so is wine. Neither are good for you in large quantity, but I still eat raw herbs (like green tea) and grapes. Again, who would blink twice if I took a medication with serious side effects, instead I take green tea, no side effects and am able to avoid some very harmful doses of medication because of it. Who is throwing stones?

[bnaur]

well supposedly theres health benefits to drinking certain alcoholic beverages.

There are enough other healthy foods in the world, some which can provide the same or similar benefits of whatever tea has to offer, in that one does not have to break the command to not drink tea.

I am an herbal nutritionist hobbyist. I have studied herbs my entire life. I do not know of an herb to replace what I get benefit from green tea. I could go completely medical, and the medication will take out my liver and it does not adequately control my condition. But that is okay with you? Sounds like you are willing to take that risk. Right?

[Wingnut]

I am an herbal nutritionist hobbyist. I have studied herbs my entire life. I do not know of an herb to replace what I get benefit from green tea. I could go completely medical, and the medication will take out my liver and it does not adequately control my condition. But that is okay with you? Sounds like you are willing to take that risk. Right?

That's not between Blackmarch and you. It's between him and the Lord. And it's not your place to judge him for choosing to live the Word of Wisdom without explanation.

[bnaur]

It's too bad old threads can't stay 'dead'... you might check the freshness date before replying.

Your right... Im a newbie... I guess I will stick to the 'new posts' section to be safe.

[bnaur]

Here's the interpretation: Hot drinks = coffee and tea. There is no specific instruction otherwise. We are generally counseled to avoid things that are harmful and/or addictive to our bodies.

Excellent summary. I totally agree.

[Blackmarch]

I am an herbal nutritionist hobbyist. I have studied herbs my entire life. I do not know of an herb to replace what I get benefit from green tea. I could go completely medical, and the medication will take out my liver and it does not adequately control my condition. But that is okay with you? Sounds like you are willing to take that risk. Right?

I have no idea if that is ok with me. I have very very little information about your situation.

I find that surprising, however you seem to know your herbalism. If you are seeking justification for using it, a medicinal reason because there are none others availible will probably justify it.

You have me curious now tho, does the medical version have extra chemicals in it that takes it out on livers? (i'm assuming you know exactly what compound you need for your condition)

[rex8499]

Hmm, an interesting discussion. My wife had taught me that the prophets had clarified that it was anything that came from the tea plant. Sounds like maybe she was mistaken and that no such clarification has been made. I'm not a big green tea drinker, but the part that I do miss most is the tea in the chinese restaurants, which I believe is more like the green tea than a black tea...but I could be wrong.

[epiginosko]

The tea served in most Chinese restaurants is called Oolong tea. It is basically a weaker green tea.

[UrbanFool]

My mother and my MIL both drink a cup of hot water in the morning. I think my mom adds lemon and honey sometimes. Both swear it gets everything moving.

[Wingnut]

Both swear it gets everything moving.

So do prune juice and watermelon.

[barney003]

After a decade's worth of research about green tea's health benefits, it is proven that it has the potential to fight cancer and heart diseases.

It can also cure your hairs from damaging.

Thanks for this wonderful thread. I really liked it :)

[grantstine]

Vitamins, antioxidants, super power, whatever!!!. Little things. Eat some broccoli, a banana, drink orange juice, grape juice. The tanic acid in green tea is what is bad for you. This is used to cure leather of some kind. In the 50's doctors said that smoking was good for you, and people that were pregnant were told that it would help there babies???. They were wrong. This green tea thing is a billion dollar business, and they will say whatever they want to get you to buy it.

[Wingnut]

The tanic acid in green tea is what is bad for you. This is used to cure leather of some kind.

Tannins found in tea are also found in pomegranates, chocolate, persimmons, hazelnuts, cinnamon, cranberries, and garbanzo beans, and that's hardly starting on the list! They're not the same kind of tannins used for tanning leather.

What's bad about tea is that the prophets have instructed us not to drink it. Period. End of story.

[grantstine]

Follow the prophet. End of story.