New Converts .

[curios]

I want to discuss a topic, statistically 50% of new LDS members leave the church or become inactive within two years of joining, this is not me saying, it is official statistics,,, why do you think this happen and how can this be treated ??

I remember asking this question to missionaries before joining the church, and they confirmed the fact, saying that the church puts more attention to investigators much more than it does to new members, when I was an investigator almost every member knew me by name and greeted me, when I'm leaving some one always volunteered to give me a lift, I always told the missionaries I cant wait to get out of the spot light, I just want to be confirmed and be just another regular member, because I was sure this luxury won't last, and felt sorry for investigators who got spoiled and used to being in the spot light .

During my investigation period I saw 3 confirmations, two of them already stopped attending now !!! after my confirmation I was giving many books to read through, I don't know which one to start with, missionaries who used to call me every day, don't call any more now, I found out that I only know most members by their last names and faces, same did they, my only real friends were the missionaries who keep on rotating and never last, and being a single adult meant that I will hardly fit with families .

I know myself very well, I will keep on trying again and again until I fit in, and make good friends. because I know that every new convert has a big role, and it is his responsibility to work hard and secure his place in his ward, but don't you agree that the strategy should be changed, and that new converts should be given some assistance for the first year or 6 months, don't you think that being very friendly to an investigator just because he is an investigator and then not being friendly any more after he is a member is offending and annoying ??

Is it really our role as members to make sure that an investigator join or to make sure that converts stay ?? I guess both are at the same level of importance, whats the use of new converts if they wont last ??

Edited May 25, 2009 by curios

[prospectmom]

We should be doing all we can to help the new converts stay........... I have seen this problem before.... Keep on going as the church is true .... the people make mistskes

[not_ashamed]

yes this does happen and its sad but, i don't think it is intentional. It has been said before and it is so true, our faith is not just a religion it is a lifestyle. Conversion is a process and it doesn't always happen quickly. For most of us the process of conversion never stops, we are always learning new things about the church. Stay strong in the faith, a year from now you will look back and not be able to remember when you still felt uncomfortable. In time walking into church will feel like walking into your house, you will be comfortable and happy.

[Islander]

I want to discuss a topic, statistically 50% of new LDS members leave the church or become inactive within two years of joining, this is not me saying, it is official statistics,,, why do you think this happen and how can this be treated ??

I remember asking this question to missionaries before joining the church, and they confirmed the fact, saying that the church puts more attention to investigators much more than it does to new members, when I was an investigator almost every member knew me by name and greeted me, when I'm leaving some one always volunteered to give me a lift, I always told the missionaries I cant wait to get out of the spot light, I just want to be confirmed and be just another regular member, because I was sure this luxury won't last, and felt sorry for investigators who got spoiled and used to being in the spot light .

During my investigation period I saw 3 confirmations, two of them already stopped attending now !!! after my confirmation I was giving many books to read through, I don't know which one to start with, missionaries who used to call me every day, don't call any more now, I found out that I only know most members by their last names and faces, same did they, my only real friends were the missionaries who keep on rotating and never last, and being a single adult meant that I will hardly fit with families .

I know myself very well, I will keep on trying again and again until I fit in, and make good friends. because I know that every new convert has a big role, and it is his responsibility to work hard and secure his place in his ward, but don't you agree that the strategy should be changed, and that new converts should be given some assistance for the first year or 6 months, don't you think that being very friendly to an investigator just because he is an investigator and then not being friendly any more after he is a member is offending and annoying ??

Is it really our role as members to make sure that an investigator join or to make sure that converts stay ?? I guess both are at the same level of importance, whats the use of new converts if they wont last ??

I am also a convert of 10 years. I have seen some come and go as well. It has nothign to do with the doctrine and much to do with deciding to hold on to the iron rod. The letters of Paul detail his constant exhortation to the brethren to remain steadfast on the faith and the doctrine they have received from them and not to go back to the ways of the world. The parable of the seeds on Matthew 13 comes to mind.

People can recognize the truth. But they don't always do what it takes to stay the course. They find the path but walking in it all the days of our lives, being faithful to the word of God; that is the real errand.

Edited May 25, 2009 by Islander

[ztodd]

President Hinckley said that every new convert (and really, everyone in the church) needs 3 things- friends, a responsibility, and nurturing with the Word of God. We all have the duty to help provide these things to them.

[NeuroTypical]

statistically 50% of new LDS members leave the church or become inactive within two years of joining, this is not me saying, it is official statistics,,,

Call for references. Where are these official statistics and who keeps them, and how do they know? If you have a ward telephone list, how exactly do you tell which are active and which aren't?

* We take roll during sacrament meeting and in classes, but not showing up on roll doesn't mean you're inactive.

* The church doesn't keep any official records of members who have requested no contact. Bishops might keep their own records on the back of a paper bag, but there's no way to mark an individual as "not active" in the church computer.

I've never seen anything official on the subject, other than to discuss retention issues. Sure, it is an issue, but I'd really like to know how exactly you've quantified that issue to claim a 50% inactivity rate.

LM

[Palerider]

what source do you get this info from?????

[pam]

I want to discuss a topic, statistically 50% of new LDS members leave the church or become inactive within two years of joining, this is not me saying, it is official statistics

May I have a link that shows those statistics so I can read it for myself?

[bmy-]

From personal experience.. it's true. I've been inactive off and on. Mainly due to work, etc.

In my experience.. it's because converts are generally pretty open minded. Thus their minds change frequently. They take full advantage of the saying 'Bring your truths and let us add to them'.

It also does not help that the general LDS congregation is no different than the typical protestant one. Nobody is really sure what they believe.. which I find slightly ironic. If I ask a question it seems like I get 5-6 different answers. One other factor would probably be culture. Try as we might.. we simply don't fit in all the time

[spiritseeker]

I don't know if it is 50% but it is high. I think as Islander said I think part of it is many don't hang on to the Iron Rod. But I feel the Church needs to do more to integrate the new convert in to the fold. I have thought a good idea might be a mentor program where each new convert is hooked up with a member and that member checks in with the convert periodically. (Kind of like a sponsor in twelve steps) Because I too believe that being LDS is more than a religion it is a way of life. I will confess here to all of you as a new convert , Oh how do I say this? Please forgive me ..... I am a registered DEMOCRAT:eek::eek: I know it's not a normal thing for you guys I hope it doesn't keep me out of the Celestial Kingdom!!!!! All kidding aside I do think we need to address this issue because peoples souls hang in the balance.... And since I am coming clean here...... I voted for Obama!!! I hope Pam will still want to marry me......

[LDSVALLEY]

Prior to my calling as Ward Mission Leader we were leading the Stake in Baptism but had a retention level of 25%. The Mission Leader would turn to the Auxiliaries after a baptism and say now they are your problem!

During my manning of the post, through much hard work on the part of many in the church, not because of me, we finished last year with 80% retention.

I have found there are many issues that cause poor retention.

1 how quickly and by whom are new member lessons taught.

2 how quickly a calling or assignment are given.

3 the quality of the home or visit teachers.

4 is the new convert activity's watched over by the Mission group in the Ward.

5 involvement level of the appropriate auxiliary.

6 are they taught what it means and helped to become LDS or just expected to know.

7 What state were they at when the Missionaries found them.

8 what is there intent on joining, many do not grasp what the gospel is about when baptized.

9 what is the state of the ward as it relates to Zion. Clickish, lots of back biting, or loving caring etc.

10 Are the lines of communication open and clear between the new convert and the leadership.

I could easily triple that number. Some things we do in our ward that help are.

1 we created a Mormon English dictionary to help explain many terms to new converts.

2 As mission leader I use 5-10 minutes of each Gospel Principle class to explain something about the church that was said in Sacrament that might not be understood.

3 My phone number, name and email are written on the black board each class and it is made clear they can call me if they have questions.

4 We stress communications every couple of weeks, that when something sounds wrong most often it is a misunderstanding of communications.

5 our Missionaries slowly pull back after baptism and we encourage Home and Visit teachers to step in.

6 we are attempting to start an assistant pool to put new members in so they are assigned for a short time to be things like an assistant teacher to learn what that calling is about.

7 we are also pushing with the agreement of auxiliaries to train new converts on things like how to give a talk, what a home teacher is, what an executive secretary does etc.

8 The biggest thing is we try hard to work together as leadership and to create plans for each individual new convert based on what they need.

9 I personally pray about each new convert whom I am responsible for, a period of two years after baptism.

10 never give up or forget about someone.

There are many things our ward does wrong, callings for new converts take months, home or visit teaching is not always selected with the best for the newest in mind etc. But we keep in mind that unless we have done everything we can to help new converts then the Lord will hold us accountable for what we didn't do when they walk away.

[rameumptom]

For many people, the Church's initial infusion of Spirit is enough to get them into the waters of baptism. However, many do not understand how to maintain that spiritual infusion on their own. Without frequent spiritual visits by missionaries, they quickly fade back to their old lifestyles.

Another factor is socialization. People hang out with others with similar interests.

While a new convert may have one or two LDS friends, they will have dozens of non-LDS friends. Those friends will encourage them to socialize in the ways they are accustomed to doing. For those not solidly grounded in testimony, it becomes easy to become distracted by old social networks and friends. Socialization by many LDS members can help the newly formed, but weak, testimony to grow, because it affords the new member opportunities to ask questions, be taught, and feel the Spirit more often.

Pres Hinckley noted that new converts need three things: 1) a calling, 2) a friend, and 3) to be nourished by the word of God.

Too often they are not given a calling until it is too late. Or they are given a calling way to above their ability and it scares them away.

A friend should actually be many friends. I would hope every member of the ward would invite each new convert into their home for dinner sometime within the first 3 months after baptism.

I knew a branch president who was wise on this matter. A family that was being taught a second time by the missionaries (after 18 months) assigned members to have the family into a home every Sunday after Church for dinner. They were baptized, and a year later the brother was set apart as the elder's quorum president. THAT is how you provide the social component.

Finally, socialization provides opportunities for the member to be spiritually nourished. If the new member lives in a difficult environment (fighting parents, etc), friends can provide a nourishment they cannot receive elsewhere. And our Sacrament meetings need to kick into gear. Elder Holland once told me that we need to "set our pulpits afire" as we once did in the Church. He taught that if we teach the doctrine with the Spirit, then they will come and stay.

Will we keep all of them? Probably not. But our conversion and stay rates will jump dramatically.

[Misshalfway]

I remember back in my mission days the emphasis that came from church head quarters to focus added effort on retention. I think there is much that we can still do to improve in this area.

[xoomer]

I don't know if it is 50% but it is high. I think as Islander said I think part of it is many don't hang on to the Iron Rod. But I feel the Church needs to do more to integrate the new convert in to the fold. I have thought a good idea might be a mentor program where each new convert is hooked up with a member and that member checks in with the convert periodically. (Kind of like a sponsor in twelve steps) Because I too believe that being LDS is more than a religion it is a way of life. I will confess here to all of you as a new convert , Oh how do I say this? Please forgive me ..... I am a registered DEMOCRAT:eek::eek: I know it's not a normal thing for you guys I hope it doesn't keep me out of the Celestial Kingdom!!!!! All kidding aside I do think we need to address this issue because peoples souls hang in the balance.... And since I am coming clean here...... I voted for Obama!!! I hope Pam will still want to marry me......

As I new convert Can I mention that I'm a registered Libertarian, Gun owner, and Voted for Bob Barr

[bmy-]

I think it has (in large) to do with the attitude of members towards non-members. They may not verbalize it in public.. but listen to the whispers.

[Islander]

I think it has (in large) to do with the attitude of members towards non-members. They may not verbalize it in public.. but listen to the whispers.

I suggest you may be mistaken. My ward has 68% of converts from 1-30 years of membership and there is really great fellowship and friendship wthin. Myself, a convert of 10 years, am well acquainted with the pitfalls of new membership in the church. There is no "single" reason why new coverts fall off the wagon. From strong opposition from family and friends, to difficulties adjusting to life changes brought about by membership impacting socialization, work and family habits, and struggling to adherence to the principles of the Gospel.

[bmy-]

I suggest you may be mistaken. My ward has 68% of converts from 1-30 years of membership and there is really great fellowship and friendship wthin. Myself, a convert of 10 years, am well acquainted with the pitfalls of new membership in the church. There is no "single" reason why new coverts fall off the wagon. From strong opposition from family and friends, to difficulties adjusting to life changes brought about by membership impacting socialization, work and family habits, and struggling to adherence to the principles of the Gospel.

You're absolutely correct in saying that there is no "single" reason new converts fall off the wagon. I'm a convert also.. and the largest stress (in my experience) was comments made about non-members or inactives.

If I had to guess.. most new converts attend diligently for ~8-12 months and then it slowly fades away. The honeymoon is over so to speak.. and you become 'just one of crowd'. It wasn't until I got to really know the members of my ward until I realized what they really thought.

[mlbrowninwa]

You're absolutely correct in saying that there is no "single" reason new converts fall off the wagon. I'm a convert also.. and the largest stress (in my experience) was comments made about non-members or inactives.

If I had to guess.. most new converts attend diligently for ~8-12 months and then it slowly fades away. The honeymoon is over so to speak.. and you become 'just one of crowd'. It wasn't until I got to really know the members of my ward until I realized what they really thought.

Well as someone getting ready to join the church, this makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. "What they really thought?" However as someone who has been forced to change churches because of moving i don't think that its just this church that has this problem.

Several of the churches I tried here in Vancouver, WA before deciding to join the LDS church were very open and friendly when you first showed up. They'll take you around introduce you to a couple people and then you're on your own. For the most part my experience so far at the LDS church has been much different(and maybe i'm lucky with the people I have in my ward). They have gone out of their way to make me feel welcome. However if the new member is allowed to drop off the map so to speak after joining, this could be a problem. But this is partly up to the new member as well, to seek out activities in the church. They very well may be running around talking and asking each other where my wife and daughter are, why is he here alone. But i am a firm believer that there is no way you will ever make everybody happy. That goes at church too. As far as I'm concerned, let them talk and they are welcome to their own opinions.

But with all that said, i am looking forward to not being one of those people that fall from the church. It took Heavenly Father nearly 20 years of gently showing me the way. I'm staying now that I'm here. If you ask me, being a convert has alot of perks. We have been on the "outside" and now realize what we need to do. I think it gives you a very different perspective than someone who has been a lifelong member.

[bmy-]

Well as someone getting ready to join the church, this makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. "What they really thought?" However as someone who has been forced to change churches because of moving i don't think that its just this church that has this problem.

It's not just this church by any means. I can promise you that. Everyone gets a new toy and gives it all of their attention.. and after a while something new comes along and that toy is set aside. Do your best not to become used to all that attention -- it can take the place of a testimony.

Several of the churches I tried here in Vancouver, WA before deciding to join the LDS church were very open and friendly when you first showed up. They'll take you around introduce you to a couple people and then you're on your own. For the most part my experience so far at the LDS church has been much different(and maybe i'm lucky with the people I have in my ward). They have gone out of their way to make me feel welcome. However if the new member is allowed to drop off the map so to speak after joining, this could be a problem. But this is partly up to the new member as well, to seek out activities in the church. They very well may be running around talking and asking each other where my wife and daughter are, why is he here alone. But i am a firm believer that there is no way you will ever make everybody happy. That goes at church too. As far as I'm concerned, let them talk and they are welcome to their own opinions.

That's excellent! You're absolutely right.. when two thinking people are together they'll never agree on everything. For myself.. it was more of a "I thought they were different" and a rude awakening that they really were no different than the rest of the world.

I'm being completely honest with you. The cliche saying of "The Church is perfect but the people aren't" doesn't cut it.. it's more like "The Church is perfect but the people are people". I'm not attempting to discourage you.. just realize that people are people.

But with all that said, i am looking forward to not being one of those people that fall from the church. It took Heavenly Father nearly 20 years of gently showing me the way. I'm staying now that I'm here. If you ask me, being a convert has alot of perks. We have been on the "outside" and now realize what we need to do. I think it gives you a very different perspective than someone who has been a lifelong member.

Don't let them quell your unique outlook on life or any rebellious streak you might have. Stay active in the Church.. think for yourself.. and most of all enjoy your mortal probation.

Most of all.. remember that you can see all sorts of things from the outside that you can't see at the center. Enjoy your baptism and I hope your water is cleaner than mine was (cockroaches). For a song to be sung.. I would suggest "The Spirit of God Like a Fire Is Burning"

[mlbrowninwa]

bmy- I know you were just being honest. I am really looking forward to my baptism. I have been in the customer service business for longer than I can remember, so one thing i know is people, lol. No church is perfect and i do not believe this one will be either. It is the only one that I have really felt was the right one though. Thank you for the suggestion of the song. I was at a loss on that one, so maybe we'll go with that. And yes, I too hope the water is clear of cockroaches!!

[bmy-]

bmy- I know you were just being honest. I am really looking forward to my baptism. I have been in the customer service business for longer than I can remember, so one thing i know is people, lol. No church is perfect and i do not believe this one will be either. It is the only one that I have really felt was the right one though. Thank you for the suggestion of the song. I was at a loss on that one, so maybe we'll go with that. And yes, I too hope the water is clear of cockroaches!!

My missionary was like "Don't look down" and i'm like "I already did, let's do this quick"

[xoomer]

Well as someone getting ready to join the church, this makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. "What they really thought?" However as someone who has been forced to change churches because of moving i don't think that its just this church that has this problem.

Several of the churches I tried here in Vancouver, WA before deciding to join the LDS church were very open and friendly when you first showed up. They'll take you around introduce you to a couple people and then you're on your own. For the most part my experience so far at the LDS church has been much different(and maybe i'm lucky with the people I have in my ward). They have gone out of their way to make me feel welcome. However if the new member is allowed to drop off the map so to speak after joining, this could be a problem. But this is partly up to the new member as well, to seek out activities in the church. They very well may be running around talking and asking each other where my wife and daughter are, why is he here alone. But i am a firm believer that there is no way you will ever make everybody happy. That goes at church too. As far as I'm concerned, let them talk and they are welcome to their own opinions.

But with all that said, i am looking forward to not being one of those people that fall from the church. It took Heavenly Father nearly 20 years of gently showing me the way. I'm staying now that I'm here. If you ask me, being a convert has alot of perks. We have been on the "outside" and now realize what we need to do. I think it gives you a very different perspective than someone who has been a lifelong member.

I had some fun at the Hazel Dell ward before I joined,, I went with some friends......

[Guest]

I have to admit I didn't read all the posts on this thread, but I just want to quickly state my 2 cents before heading off to bed.

I'm a convert of 7 years... in our ward, all of the newly baptized members are still active - not counting those that moved out of ward boundaries (dunno how they are now) - except one. The one lady that is not active was the only black person in our ward at that time. She was the only person in her family who is LDS, her husband is a staunch baptist. I think that has a lot to do with it.

Now, I may be wrong in this count, but this is my impression in our ward.

Anyway, I do feel that the ward family is the main thing that impacts retention. I love my ward. It is one of the most diverse wards that I've known (close to a naval base, so we have a lot of come-and-go members) and we have become experts at fellowship. I was given a calling to teach RS 2 weeks after I got baptized. There was no excuse for me to skip on church as it takes me the entire month to prepare for my monthly 45-minute lesson! My home teacher was the awesomest. He loves basketball and my husband and I are both big basketball fans so I get to be invited to their weekly basketball scrimmage at church (no, I don't play - I just watch while my husband plays). The scrimmage is on Wednesdays which is the day when the YW/YM are meeting at church, so I get to hang out with their parents as well who are driving them to church. And my visiting teachers, I tell ya - they are cool as well! We usually go out for ice-cream (my favorite) or sing some karaoke (also my favorite) after a short "how are you on the gospel" thing. Both my VTs at the time were single women who are party-all-the-time types. I love it because that is so ME as well. Then there's ward activities almost every month that's always fun to go to. Then there's all these RS clubs - book club, cooking club, scrapbook club, exercise club, coupon club, choir... it is difficult to decide which ones to go to since they're all cool but of course, I don't have time for all of them... man, recently, they even have a facebook club where we get to be friends with everybody from the 7-year-olds to the 70-year-olds in the ward who are in facebook who make little comments like, "I just got done burping my baby and she puked all over me." which is a cute insight to some of our friends' everyday challenges...

Okay, so the past 2 years I got called as ward activity person. I was very worried about this calling. But, the past 2 years, I found out how easy this calling is. I just come up with the idea and everybody pitches in without much prodding. And every activity I have, we always have a huge showing. I heard from new ward members that this is not always the case in ward activities. So, yeah, I think our ward may have something special going on...

Anyway, I think all that has something to do with why we've been good in retaining new converts.

P.S. We have republicans, democrats, pro-life, pro-choice, married at 19, single at 46, divorced, stay-at-home moms, successful enterpreneur and career women, one-bedroom apartments, 2-million dollar homes, 4 generation families, all kinds of stuff, in our ward. must be because of the naval-base-proximity aspect of it.

[Hemidakota]

I am waiting for the reference source. :)

[rameumptom]

David Stewart has done over a decade of research in missionary work and retention. Some of his data are rather ugly, but we as members need to review and consider it. He shows via the statistics the main inactivity factors.

I recommend a close reading of this research book. Section I tells about the data and problems we face. Definitely a worthwhile read.

Cumorah.com - International Resources for Latter-day Saints.

Check out his entire website, as well.