Claimed petroglyphs in Utah


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[Received e-mail]

On June 1, 2009 I took residence in my recently purchased home in Las Vegas, Nevada. While driving here from my temporary apartment in Salt Lake City, I passed two locations that have a wealth of history, related to the lives and travels of Mormon and Moroni. I was especially captivated by my drive down I-15, passing Filmore, and finally passing Cedar City, Utah.

In the foothills of the two cities of Filmore, Utah and Cedar City, Utah, my dear friend of many years, Jose Davila, claimed to have read some petroglyphs which indicate both Mormon and Moroni were in these locations. Jose claimed that two of these sets of petroglyphs were written by Moroni. He told me that his “translation” of these petroglyphs was based on his use of Budge’s Egyptian Dictionary.

Reaction to Jose’s claim, by those who hold credentials in linguistics, etc, was that the petroglyphs were essentially graffiti, probably written by High School or University students, as a prank. Jose even moved to this area of Southern Utah and for over a year attempting to locate items he claimed were buried in these two locations.

Jose’s efforts became public knowledge and stirred a lot of excitement. Stories appeared in the newspaper, university professors made sport of Jose’s claims and eventually Jose gave up on his efforts and returned to Mexico.

I met Jose after he had returned to Mexico and a few years later visited the petroglyphs while conducting post-doctoral studies at Brigham Young University, in Provo, Utah.

In March 2000 I published The Lives and Travels of Mormon and Moroni, in which I placed photos of the two sets of petroglyphs that Jose claimed to have “translated,” (see page 214 of my book).

More on these two sets of petroglyphs next month.

July Update

Jerry has completed his move but the hot summer months are now upon us and this month's article will be mainly an introduction to next month's. Jerry is pretty much focused right now on following Moroni's trail in Utah rather than Mexico, though that could change anytime.

I have traveled with Jerry to some of the sites he mentions in Utah. It's a fascinating study and very interesting to learn how the ancients communicated and left 'bulletin boards' that remain in our time for those who know how to recognize them for what they are. Now, as I wander in the deserts near my St. George home town close to Cedar City, I am always alert for certain signs that remain largely unknown to most people because of the ever present threat of treasure seekers and vandals, and the hostility to amateurs of some of the professionals...

It is my understanding that recently the feds raided several ranches in Utah with armed tactical teams and arrested people who apparently had ancient artifacts in their possession. As I understand it, a local medical doctor lost his life because of those raids by armed employees of the federal government. We are certainly living in times of bloated governments and myriad regulations, and police forces who do not hesitate to take away the "inalienable" God-given rights and liberty of citizens of the USA. (That's my personal opinion and my first hand observation.)

Jerry Ainsworth

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My first reaction is one of skepticism. I'd have to see a whole lot of evidence and verification by third parties before I'd believe that petroglyphs in Utah were written by Mormon and Moroni. The author of the email also needs to check his facts about the raids conducted by the federal government in Southern Utah:

As I understand it, a local medical doctor lost his life because of those raids by armed employees of the federal government. We are certainly living in times of bloated governments and myriad regulations, and police forces who do not hesitate to take away the "inalienable" God-given rights and liberty of citizens of the USA. (That's my personal opinion and my first hand observation.)

Dr. James Redd did not lose his life "because of those raids", Dr Redd took his own life, he did not leave a suicide note so we could only speculate on his motives. Mr Ainsworth has his right to his opinion, but the police forces did not take away any god given rights of the citizens of Southern Utah, they were arrested for breaking federal law related to the taking and distribution of ancient Native American artifacts.

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I do not doubt there were wondering of many different tribes, even those from central Americas, that were brought here from different lands but this one I have to see for myself. Knowing Jerry, he will take some pictures and have some residence experts in examining the writings.

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They have to be fraudulent. For one thing, Nephi used REFORMED Egyptian, not Egyptian, so Budge's book would have been useless. Why? Because it was probably more like demotic, which Budge does not use.

Second, in the BoM, Moroni tells us that the Reformed Egyptian had been altered by the time he was around, so it would have been even further away from Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Finally, Mormon probably never made it that far north, as he never went to the New York hill Cumorah, but remained in Central America near the Hill Ramah prior to his death. Moroni may have passed that way, but once again, his writings would not have been anything like Egyptian.

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My first reaction is one of skepticism. I'd have to see a whole lot of evidence and verification by third parties before I'd believe that petroglyphs in Utah were written by Mormon and Moroni. The author of the email also needs to check his facts about the raids conducted by the federal government in Southern Utah:

Dr. James Redd did not lose his life "because of those raids", Dr Redd took his own life, he did not leave a suicide note so we could only speculate on his motives. Mr Ainsworth has his right to his opinion, but the police forces did not take away any god given rights of the citizens of Southern Utah, they were arrested for breaking federal law related to the taking and distribution of ancient Native American artifacts.

There was a second person who was also arrested for the same thing that took his life as well.

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They have to be fraudulent. For one thing, Nephi used REFORMED Egyptian, not Egyptian, so Budge's book would have been useless. Why? Because it was probably more like demotic, which Budge does not use.

Second, in the BoM, Moroni tells us that the Reformed Egyptian had been altered by the time he was around, so it would have been even further away from Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Finally, Mormon probably never made it that far north, as he never went to the New York hill Cumorah, but remained in Central America near the Hill Ramah prior to his death. Moroni may have passed that way, but once again, his writings would not have been anything like Egyptian.

Moroni did pass through southern Utah - Moroni dedicated the ground for the Manti temple. But I do agree ancient petroglyphs are not Egyptian nor or they even phonetically structured.

The Traveler

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In the foothills of the two cities of Filmore, Utah and Cedar City, Utah, my dear friend of many years, Jose Davila, claimed to have read some petroglyphs which indicate both Mormon and Moroni were in these locations. Jose claimed that two of these sets of petroglyphs were written by Moroni. He told me that his “translation” of these petroglyphs was based on his use of Budge’s Egyptian Dictionary.

... and in the a dried river bed outside Prove, my dear friend of many years, Swen Chipotle, claims to have discovered proof that bigfoot cross-bred with the Loch Ness monster and created a super race of quadra-pedal serpents that invented the printing press and also the iPod.

What's the difference between my friend Swen and your friend Jose? My friend is slightly more credible than yours.

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Swen Chipotle? hahahahaha I have a problem with your post Snow. I don't believe that is his real name.

It's all true - so very, very true. Swen was born Jerry "the bod" Von Ainsworth but had his name legally changed to Swen Chipotle after he discovered proof that Nephites were the original owners of the NBA team, The Utah Jazz.

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[Received e-mail]

On June 1, 2009 I took residence in my recently purchased home in Las Vegas, Nevada. While driving here from my temporary apartment in Salt Lake City, I passed two locations that have a wealth of history, related to the lives and travels of Mormon and Moroni. I was especially captivated by my drive down I-15, passing Filmore, and finally passing Cedar City, Utah.

In the foothills of the two cities of Filmore, Utah and Cedar City, Utah, my dear friend of many years, Jose Davila, claimed to have read some petroglyphs which indicate both Mormon and Moroni were in these locations. Jose claimed that two of these sets of petroglyphs were written by Moroni. He told me that his “translation” of these petroglyphs was based on his use of Budge’s Egyptian Dictionary.

Reaction to Jose’s claim, by those who hold credentials in linguistics, etc, was that the petroglyphs were essentially graffiti, probably written by High School or University students, as a prank. Jose even moved to this area of Southern Utah and for over a year attempting to locate items he claimed were buried in these two locations.

Jose’s efforts became public knowledge and stirred a lot of excitement. Stories appeared in the newspaper, university professors made sport of Jose’s claims and eventually Jose gave up on his efforts and returned to Mexico.

I met Jose after he had returned to Mexico and a few years later visited the petroglyphs while conducting post-doctoral studies at Brigham Young University, in Provo, Utah.

In March 2000 I published The Lives and Travels of Mormon and Moroni, in which I placed photos of the two sets of petroglyphs that Jose claimed to have “translated,” (see page 214 of my book).

More on these two sets of petroglyphs next month.

July Update

Jerry has completed his move but the hot summer months are now upon us and this month's article will be mainly an introduction to next month's. Jerry is pretty much focused right now on following Moroni's trail in Utah rather than Mexico, though that could change anytime.

I have traveled with Jerry to some of the sites he mentions in Utah. It's a fascinating study and very interesting to learn how the ancients communicated and left 'bulletin boards' that remain in our time for those who know how to recognize them for what they are. Now, as I wander in the deserts near my St. George home town close to Cedar City, I am always alert for certain signs that remain largely unknown to most people because of the ever present threat of treasure seekers and vandals, and the hostility to amateurs of some of the professionals...

It is my understanding that recently the feds raided several ranches in Utah with armed tactical teams and arrested people who apparently had ancient artifacts in their possession. As I understand it, a local medical doctor lost his life because of those raids by armed employees of the federal government. We are certainly living in times of bloated governments and myriad regulations, and police forces who do not hesitate to take away the "inalienable" God-given rights and liberty of citizens of the USA. (That's my personal opinion and my first hand observation.)

Jerry Ainsworth

This needs some clarification. Dr. Jerry Ainsworth wrote the words up to: "More on these two sets of petroglyphs next month." The other words were written by and are the personal opinions of the person who compiles and sends out the newsletter that HemiDakota has quoted from.

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They have to be fraudulent. For one thing, Nephi used REFORMED Egyptian, not Egyptian, so Budge's book would have been useless. Why? Because it was probably more like demotic, which Budge does not use.

Second, in the BoM, Moroni tells us that the Reformed Egyptian had been altered by the time he was around, so it would have been even further away from Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Finally, Mormon probably never made it that far north, as he never went to the New York hill Cumorah, but remained in Central America near the Hill Ramah prior to his death. Moroni may have passed that way, but once again, his writings would not have been anything like Egyptian.

It is just your opinion that Mormon "remained in Central America near the Hill Ramah." Some people think that Mormon was killed and is buried near Cedar City, Utah. But of course there is no proof of that, at least I'm not aware of any.

Dr. Ainsworth is currently involved with a new nonprofit group called the "Foundation for Ancient American Studies." It's possible that some day they may conduct tours in Utah to introduce others to the wealth of possible Nephite 'evidences' that is to be found in that state. Subscribers to the Mormon Sites monthly newsletter "Nephite Evidences" will be among the first to know if that happens.

Mormon Sites - rising from the dust...

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Moroni did pass through southern Utah - Moroni dedicated the ground for the Manti temple. But I do agree ancient petroglyphs are not Egyptian nor or they even phonetically structured.

The Traveler

Apparently Brigham Young said that Moroni dedicated the site for the St. George, Utah temple, but I don't have the reference in front of me.

The petroglyphs that Jerry talks about are very different than the Anasazi etc. glyphs that are common in southern Utah. Some of the ones Jerry talks about contain a symbol that some people think is Moroni's signature. That signature has been found in I think about 32 known locations in western USA. A ranger in Filmore, Utah has a lot of information on it if anyone cares to go to the ranger station there and ask for him. Go around to the back of the ranger station and you'll see the "Signature Rock" that was brought in from a nearby mountain location, it has a Moroni signature.

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It's all true - so very, very true. Swen was born Jerry "the bod" Von Ainsworth but had his name legally changed to Swen Chipotle after he discovered proof that Nephites were the original owners of the NBA team, The Utah Jazz.

I personally find this post in very poor taste. Disagree with him if you will but Dr. Ainsworth is an eminent Book of Mormon scholar, he deserves more respect than this on an LDS board in my opinion.

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I personally find this post in very poor taste. Disagree with him if you will but Dr. Ainsworth is an eminent Book of Mormon scholar, he deserves more respect than this on an LDS board in my opinion.

Eminent Book of Mormon scholar?

When did that happen? I didn't even know that he was a BoM scholar (I think he is a law or health professor) let alone eminent. He has a popular book on the topic but I don't think any scholar takes his work seriously.

As to whether he should be referred to as "the bod" ... you decide:

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Edited by Snow
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There are few professors who worked the ancient xxxxxxx department I would not bother to give them the time of day. However, noticing Dr. Ainsworths method of studies, opens the door to possibilities I would never considered in the past.

Even I do not agree with everything placed on the table per say, one was his choice for the hill of Cumorah but his finding of artifacts and bone remains was quite surprising.

One does not need to hold a academic degree to be a scholar in the field. If that was true, then we need to remember both the GOD and the Savior do not hold any academic paper. :)

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One does not need to hold a academic degree to be a scholar in the field. If that was true, then we need to remember both the GOD and the Savior do not hold any academic paper. :)

1. Oh? What's the source of your information?

2. Did anyone assert that they were scholars?

btw... how would you the method of Ainsworth'as studies you referred to?

Edited by Snow
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Ok...are you saying both GOD and Christ have a academic degree? We don't need to go into the subject of receiving further guidance with pray or personal revelation Snow. What we think is necessary for us is not necessary for them or those who are foreordained to important callings in mortality. Don't get me wrong, I am proponent of education as Hugh coined it, "...cradle to grave" but calling a person a scholar based on a piece of paper is not true. I don't recall the Prophet Joseph Smith having any academic certificate on the level of a PhD and I considered his works beyond most of us could reach.

Reading on what is given on such a short mortal life of this beloved Son of GOD, I highly doubt He did or was necessary for Him to hold such. However, we could contend with others of the past, dispensation prophets and by adding armchair research of fragmented writings, what was the education levels. I would find same. I wonder why?

Here is your quote -

Eminent Book of Mormon scholar?

When did that happen? I didn't even know that he was a BoM scholar

It doesn't matter if his doctorate was not in ancient religion or history.

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Ok...are you saying both GOD and Christ have a academic degree?

You know perfectly well that I did not say that; I asserted no such thing. You on the other hand stated, as fact, that they didn't. Again, I ask, what is the source of your information or did you just make it up?

We don't need to go into the subject of receiving further guidance with pray or personal revelation Snow. What we think is necessary for us is not necessary for them or those who are foreordained to important callings in mortality. Don't get me wrong, I am proponent of education as Hugh coined it, "...cradle to grave" but calling a person a scholar based on a piece of paper is not true.

That's a red herring. You also know perfectly well that I did not say that a piece of paper made one a scholar. Ainswoth has paper, that doesn't make him a scholar.

I don't recall the Prophet Joseph Smith having any academic certificate on the level of a PhD and I considered his works beyond most of us could reach.

I've never met anyone who claimed that JS was a scholar. An intellectual, yes. Scholar, no.

It doesn't matter if his doctorate was not in ancient religion or history.

It most certainly does. His credentials do not demonstrate that he is a BoM scholar and his hair-brained speculations about Moroni in Utah prove it.

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You now why the Terrestrial Kingdom is for HONORABLE MEN...or why the plates were not given to such men.

In answering your question on whether I made it up or not, it was personal. As I ponder the usage of our education system earlier in my life in becoming a law student, my faith in the educational system was shaken when receiving a different answer in a field of science where it was taught differently in a classroom environment. Then questioning of the Savior's mortal personal eduction and who was teaching Him. You will find the same pattern in Joseph Smith life who was instructing or teaching him. As I found it my own mortal life falling in the same pattern of those of the past. I stop placing importance on academic standings as to what is a scholar or what is not.

Last statement, the answer is No! As Justamere10 stated, the original mailer was not all of Jerry's writing. I do believe Moroni may have wondered through Utah though. You could attest of a named prophet who mentioned of Moroni 's blessing location of a temple to be built at a future date. Now, whether we have the proof of such, remains in the hands of a prophet vision or being a receivership of personal revelation. Do we need actual proof of this ever occurring? The answer is really no. It would be interesting to see whether or not there is actually any ties of the wondering of those who escaped the days of the civil wars of the people of Jared or Nephi.

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You now why the Terrestrial Kingdom is for HONORABLE MEN...or why the plates were not given to such men.

In answering your question on whether I made it up or not, it was personal. As I ponder the usage of our education system earlier in my life in becoming a law student, my faith in the educational system was shaken when receiving a different answer in a field of science where it was taught differently in a classroom environment.

Faith in the educational system? That's an odd concept. I don't have any faith in the educational system. It is a matter of utility. To the extent that I derive utility from such, it meets my needs. To the extent that it does not, I seek utility elsewhere. When I discover that something I learned in school is mistaken, I don't loose faith, I merely recognize the lack of utility.

Then questioning of the Savior's mortal personal eduction and who was teaching Him. You will find the same pattern in Joseph Smith life who was instructing or teaching him. As I found it my own mortal life falling in the same pattern of those of the past.

NOW you restrict your opining to Jesus's "mortal" life. That is not the impression you made originally when you also included God (the Father) and his presumably "non-mortal" life.

I stop placing importance on academic standings as to what is a scholar or what is not.

And that's why, partially, people like you buy hair-brained ideas like Moroni in Utah and are impressed by pop speculators like Ainsworth.

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And that's why, partially, people like you buy hair-brained ideas like Moroni in Utah and are impressed by pop speculators like Ainsworth.

Brigham Young dedicates site of Manti Temple - LDS.org:

"Brigham Young announced the (Manti) temple site 25 June 1875 and dedicated the site on 25 April 1877. Earlier that same morning, he had taken Warren S. Snow with him to the southeast corner of the temple site and told him, “Here is the spot where the Prophet Moroni stood and dedicated this piece of land for a Temple site, and that is the reason why the location is made here, and we can’t move it from this spot.”

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Manti Temple

Some references for Moroni also dedicating the St. George Utah Temple site:

"The temple sites credited to Moroni were at St. George, Utah and Manti, Utah. Brigham Young met with the leaders of the Church in St. George, Utah to announce the building of a Temple. David Henry Cannon Jr., a member of the St. George Temple Presidency, was in attendance when President BrighamYoung said of the St. George Temple site,

This spot was dedicated by the Nephites. They could not build it [the Temple] but we can and will build it for them.

Those present at the meeting believed Brigham was referring to Moroni as one of those Nephites who dedicated the site at St. George. President Cannon reported that "many rumors" were circulating that Brigham Young had said that "Moroni, the Nephite-General had actually dedicated the site where the Temple now stands."

Brigham Young's statement that "Nephites" dedicated the site for the St. George Temple is consistent with Warren S. Snow's testimony that Brigham Young said that Moroni, a Nephite had dedicated the site for the Manti Temple...

http://www.elektroteck.com/bens/SCAN0003.txt

"Moroni had the great privilege, as he walked across this American Continent, of finding a place and designating the place where the St. George temple was to be built. He also designated where the Manti Temple was to be. And it’s been written that he designated Kirtland and Nauvoo and probably others. Moroni appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith 22 different times during the life of the Prophet Joseph that we know of." Elder Glenn L Rudd 2003

The Angel Moroni

"The site for the temple at St. George was swampy, but Brigham Young insisted that it be built there because the spot had been dedicated by ancient Book of Mormon prophets (statement by David H. Cannon, Jr., Oct. 14, 1942, quoted in Kirk M. Curtis, "History of the St. George Temple," Master's thesis, Brigham Young University, 1964, pp. 24-25)."

History of Mormon Temples

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Apparently Brigham Young said that Moroni dedicated the site for the St. George, Utah temple, but I don't have the reference in front of me.

The petroglyphs that Jerry talks about are very different than the Anasazi etc. glyphs that are common in southern Utah. Some of the ones Jerry talks about contain a symbol that some people think is Moroni's signature. That signature has been found in I think about 32 known locations in western USA. A ranger in Filmore, Utah has a lot of information on it if anyone cares to go to the ranger station there and ask for him. Go around to the back of the ranger station and you'll see the "Signature Rock" that was brought in from a nearby mountain location, it has a Moroni signature.

The statement is of the Manti Temple, and it is not recorded in any place somewhat reliable (like the JoD). There are some who think that if the quote is correct, it is possible Moroni may have dedicated it after death, as a resurrected being.

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