Satan can hear us?


tubaloth
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I posted this on another forum.

During the temple Adam is praying, and Satan comes and says "I hear you."

That got me thinking if Satan can hear our prayers?

Now this is kind of tough. I can see a true prayer, done by the spirit, might not be something that Satan can listen in on. But I can see a more casual prayer.

I don't know if that matters that much, because I would assume Satan already knows what we desire, he wouldn't really need to listen in on prayers to figure that out (I wouldn't think).

I have heard that Satan can't read our thoughts, but can put thoughts in our head?

Next would be, could Satan answer our prayers? Meaning if I pray for a job, could Satan somehow end up leading me to a job that might not be the best for me? Either not a good work environment, or have to work on Sunday? I would think, if I have the spirit, I would recognize a "bad" job. But it’s a matter if Satan can really imitate answers to our prayers?

What is the limit of Satan's power?

In the end the discussion came down to if satan can hear our thoughts? The idea is that Satan does not have that power, but that doesn't add up for me. If Satan can plant thoughts, why can't he "Read" thoughts. Its like Satan power to access my thoughts is only one way, they can only go in, but not out?

In the end no source or doctrine is given, its more just assumed that Satan cannot read our thoughts. Any ideas?

Edited by tubaloth
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That is an excellent question! I've always taken it for granted that one of Satan's minions just stood on our shoulder (kinda like in cartoons) and "whispered" in our "ears". Obviously, in my mind, they cannot read our minds any more than my husband can read mine when he's standing next to me.

I went to lds.org and found the following link that may clarify things for you a bit (second article on the page)

LDS.org - Liahona Article - Questions and Answers

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I've always assumed that, as a disembodied spirit, Satan has at minimum the ability to see and hear physical beings. That being the case, I'd say sure--he probably is aware of the content of a verbal prayer. I'd even say he has a limited ability to answer that prayer, if the right people are willing to subject themselves to his will or if the prayer is for some kind of natural phenomena that Satan has limited power to control:

I suppose you are ready to ask Brother Brigham if he thinks the power of the Devil could make the vase dance. Yes, and could take it up and carry it out of doors, just as easy as to turn up a table and move it here and there, or to cause a rap, rap, rap, or to bake and pass around pancakes, or to get hold of a person's hand, and make him write in every style you can think of, imitating George Washington's, Benjamin Franklin's, Joseph Smith's, and other autographs. Can you tell whether that is by the power of God or the power of the Devil? No, unless you have the revelations of Jesus Christ.

--Journal of Discourses, 3:157

In the Book of Mormon, when Ammon is talking to King Lamoni, there's a passing comment about how no one can know the thoughts of our heart save God alone. I'm not sure how far to take this statement; but if one interprets it to say that Satan cannot interpret our thoughts then I agree that it's also logical that Satan shouldn't be able to plant thoughts in our heads. Which would mean that we (and even the authors of some of our scriptures) tend to give him far too much blame for sins that are really a result of our own fallen natures.

Which is entirely possible.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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If statements are always so much fun; especially when metaphysical entities are involved.

Since, I guess somewhere, it's been proposed that satan cannot 'read thoughts' yet can broadcast them here's an overly simple analogy: Tokio Rose

For those who don't know, which may be a number, Tokio/Tokyo Rose was the catchall name given to several English speaking Japanese female radio personalities during WWII. These women would broadcast propaganda in the hopes of demoralizing the enemy. Despite being an arm of the Japanese military, Tokio Rose operated mostly anonymously and one their own volition.

So how does this solve the problem?

Well, Tokio Rose would broadcast mean, dispiriting things to people all over the Eastern Theater. These ruminations were designed to 'hit home' and reach ever soldier on a personal level. But Tokio Rose had no idea to whom specifically she was talking to, nor did she know what they were thinking, yet was able to, apparently, know what every listener was thinking, wanting, and missing while in the battlefield.

So, maybe your satan operates in a similar fashion. He/It knows vaguely what you desire, for we all desire similar things, and makes generic 'broadcasts' to every person.

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What we fail to realize is that satan has been on the earth since before Adam and Eve. He has been carefully observing humans and their behavior for an ion. I have not found in scripture or doctrine that he can "hear" our thoughts. But I don't think he needs to.

Humans are fairly predictable, bound to traditions and trends as well as habitual patterns of behavior. By just watching and listening to someone for a few days, we can easily predict behavior, reaction, expectations and decisions. Precisely because satan has been around so long, watching our every move, he can prepare the perfect snare for us. He knows our favorite sins, he understands our weaknesses, our inner unrighteous desires and secret cravings because he has seen us struggle with them. Thus every day, he prepares a fresh variation and version of them to seduce us into sin. It is by the power of God, the strength of our faith and our devotion to the covenants we have made that we can overcome his evil design.

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I like the Tokyo Rose analogy :) very clever. Now throw in that each of those Tokyo Rose personalities had actually personally known every soldier before they left for the war. Satan can not read our minds. BUT he has not had the veil pulled over his mind and he knew us all in the premortal existence. He knows each of us better than we know ourselves and he knows our weaknesses. But in the end he gets far too much credit. We often blame him for sins that are really of our own choosing. "The natural man is an enemy to God" and the natural man is an innate part of all of us - we tempt ourselves. In most cases Satan and his followers only give us a nudge when we're already leaning in the wrong direction.

That article Generally_Me posted pretty well sums up the answer whether Satan can read our thoughts. But I feel it important to warn that he DOES have great power, especially when we submit to his will. Satan's power was manifest with Job - he had the power to destroy his family and property and to cause sickness and death. Which means he also has the power to save lives and prevent sickness and death - or to find you a job or to take your job away. However his power to act in relation to us is directly proportional to our righteousness - Satan could not afflict Job without God's permission because of Job's righteousness. That does not mean that Job (or the righteous us) are not subject to the natural perils of this life, but righteousness can protect us from Satan's influence on us and our surroundings.

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I may catch some crap for this, but I've always kind of likened things to some cosmic chess game between HF and satan....the board is set up and when we are born the game starts, the people we interact with and the choices we make determines different moves, and the prayers we offer up can defend us, but both have a stradegy and an end game(final moves), but we determine through our choices our own final destiny.......what a great ally we have in HF...Who can intervene with a saving grace helping to determine the outcome..and, yes..this INCREDIBLY over simplistic, but we here on earth are blocked to so much knowledge BECAUSE we are on earth, we can postulate all we like, and get some glimpses into Eternal Truth through grace from HF, but i do believe, no matter HOW much grace we receive, even the WISEST of us still only has a glimpse into eternal truth......but i do so love trying to figure it out....lol

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In the Book of Mormon, when Ammon is talking to King Lamoni, there's a passing comment about how no one can know the thoughts of our heart save God alone.

I think Ammon was speaking about mortals when he said "no one."

I believe Satan can know our thoughts.

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I posted this on another forum.

During the temple Adam is praying, and Satan comes and says "I hear you."

That got me thinking if Satan can hear our prayers?

Now this is kind of tough. I can see a true prayer, done by the spirit, might not be something that Satan can listen in on. But I can see a more casual prayer.

I don't know if that matters that much, because I would assume Satan already knows what we desire, he wouldn't really need to listen in on prayers to figure that out (I wouldn't think).

I have heard that Satan can't read our thoughts, but can put thoughts in our head?

Next would be, could Satan answer our prayers? Meaning if I pray for a job, could Satan somehow end up leading me to a job that might not be the best for me? Either not a good work environment, or have to work on Sunday? I would think, if I have the spirit, I would recognize a "bad" job. But it’s a matter if Satan can really imitate answers to our prayers?

What is the limit of Satan's power?

In the end the discussion came down to if satan can hear our thoughts? The idea is that Satan does not have that power, but that doesn't add up for me. If Satan can plant thoughts, why can't he "Read" thoughts. Its like Satan power to access my thoughts is only one way, they can only go in, but not out?

In the end no source or doctrine is given, its more just assumed that Satan cannot read our thoughts. Any ideas?

Satan, being a spirit, doesn't have ears. Exactly how do you suppose he might listen to anything?

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Guest Alana

I always assumed there was nothing I could say out loud during a prayer that Satan wouldn't already know I'm having a hard time with. I think he doesn't know my thoughts, but if I'm in a situation and I'm wavering between right and wrong, Satan will know exactly where I'm at on that. So, If I pull up a random image of a yellow piece of paper in my mind, he might not know that, but if my thoughts begin to wander and I loose the spirit, he'll know. He'll know that if someone is hitting on me and I 'take the bait', he'll know what to do to get at me. Besides, assuming he knows everything I don't want him to know, makes it easier to just do the right thing regardless of why it's hard or not. Oh and this brings to mind of what they say about when you 'assume.' hehe.

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Well, I'm not totally sure, but spirits have to be able to hear to some extent. Otherwise baptisms for the dead would be performed in vain.

Evidence and faith are not two things that typically work well together, but lets fall back on some good common sense: never underestimate your enemy. Just cause you cannot find evidence that your next door neighbor, with whom you are at war with, isn't breeding deadly radioactive alligators does not mean he is not doing so.

There's nothing that says an evil spirit has any less capacity than a good spirit. At the end of the day, satan is still a kind of angel.

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Well I don't know if Satan himself knows our desire, what we say, etc. but I'm sure those of his followers that are assigned to us do. I image Satan has one of the most advanced intelligence networks at his disposal. I think that Satan(refering to his organization not specifically Satan himself) can hear anything we say and see anything we do. There is no place Satan cannot go to "spy" on us.

I don't believe he can read our thoughts, but he can plant some.

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Well I don't know if Satan himself knows our desire, what we say, etc. but I'm sure those of his followers that are assigned to us do. I image Satan has one of the most advanced intelligence networks at his disposal. I think that Satan(refering to his organization not specifically Satan himself) can hear anything we say and see anything we do. There is no place Satan cannot go to "spy" on us.

I don't believe he can read our thoughts, but he can plant some.

You seem pretty certain. Can you review the EVIDENCE that Satan has assigned minions of he advanced intelligence network to hear anything we say and see and do?

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I believe that Satan can influence us, and that he is 'whispering' in our ears to tempt us. I have noticed that when I go into the temple that the 'noise' stops, that I am able to better focus on what is at hand without a lot of random thoughts that aren't appropriate.

Someone stated that we give Satan too much credit for our sins. In some ways, I believe that to be true, in others, we don't give him enough. You can have bad thoughts in the temple. But I had to make a conscious decision to do so. I wanted to prove to myself that I could, and I was able to. That was MY decision, and I was testing my agency: is everything from Satan? Obviously not. Someone brought up the natural man. To me, that helped me realize that it is ultimately what I want, not necessarily what Satan tempts me to do.

But on the other hand Satan can make things so uncomfortable that it almost isn't fair. Our natural man, made up of this earthly clay, wants what it wants, and usually Satan can influence that. That is why Alma and Paul stated we need to pray that we aren't tempted above what we can bear, and that the Lord will always give us an 'out' so that we can resist.

As for Satan hearing, etc., I think that he can and that his minions can. Else why are certain discussions only for within temple walls, where we know he cannot come? That he remembers our part in his expulsion I have no doubt, but I don't think it makes him a mind reader. Just as our HF has 'body, parts and passions', I believe that our spirits have the same. Christ showed himself to the Brother of Jared many many years before his birth, and MM was surprised that a spirit looked like a man (body). Why have them if they don't work?

When I have something between just me and my HF, I pray silently, even in the midst of a vocal prayer. Promptings I've been given that I feel are too sacred for discussion vocally, or pending callings that I know of because the Spirit has told me but have yet to be extended. Why give Satan another reason to attack you?

Just my opinion...

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Think rationally folks.

Exactly what evidence is there that Satan, 1. has ears, 2. has the ability to hear what billions of people whisper in their bedroom at night, 3. reads minds?

1: Doctrine and Covenants 77 "...that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal; and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual; the spirit of man in the likeness of his person, as also the spirit of the beast, and every other creature which God has created."

2: Combine 1 with the scriptures below regarding his "Network". Seriously, how could Satan (or any of his followers) tempt us save he could see and hear and thereby know what was going on in our lives and what our weaknesses are? Joseph Smith—History 1 "...It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom..."

3: Can't happen. Doctrine and Covenants 6 "Yea, I tell thee, that thou mayest know that there is none else save God that knowest thy thoughts and the intents of thy heart."

You seem pretty certain. Can you review the EVIDENCE that Satan has assigned minions of he advanced intelligence network to hear anything we say and see and do?

2 Corinthians 12 "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

Doctrine and Covenants 10 "Pray always, that you may come off conqueror; yea, that you may conquer Satan, and that you may escape the hands of the servants of Satan that do uphold his work."

Satan CAN put thoughts in our minds: Doctrine and Covenants 10 "And, behold, Satan hath put it into their hearts to alter the words which you have caused to be written, or which you have translated, which have gone out of your hands."

Edited by puf_the_majic_dragon
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1: Doctrine and Covenants 77 "...that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal; and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual; the spirit of man in the likeness of his person, as also the spirit of the beast, and every other creature which God has created."

2: Combine 1 with the scriptures below regarding his "Network". Seriously, how could Satan (or any of his followers) tempt us save he could see and hear and thereby know what was going on in our lives and what our weaknesses are? Joseph Smith—History 1 "...It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom..."

3: Can't happen. Doctrine and Covenants 6 "Yea, I tell thee, that thou mayest know that there is none else save God that knowest thy thoughts and the intents of thy heart."

2 Corinthians 12 "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

Doctrine and Covenants 10 "Pray always, that you may come off conqueror; yea, that you may conquer Satan, and that you may escape the hands of the servants of Satan that do uphold his work."

Satan CAN put thoughts in our minds: Doctrine and Covenants 10 "And, behold, Satan hath put it into their hearts to alter the words which you have caused to be written, or which you have translated, which have gone out of your hands."

Evidence - I asked for evidence, not opinion. I understand that you (we) accept the word of JS and Paul and a matter of faith, but they aren't evidence.

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Evidence - I asked for evidence, not opinion. I understand that you (we) accept the word of JS and Paul and a matter of faith, but they aren't evidence.

Huh? If you indeed are a member and believe the scriptures to be the word of God, then how can you not accept them (scriptures) as proof/true when discussing a subject such as Satan and Satans powers? That makes no sense!:eek:

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To answer in the most uncomplicated way possible, no he can't. Prayer is a direct communication between you and God. Nobody else can hear unless, of course, you verbally say it. Only God knows what you whisper to him in your mind and heart.

The only time where thoughts weren't private was in the preexistence, but that was because there were no secrets. It's not only Satan who's planting thoughts into your head, but his minions. Think of it this way, they probably knew you in the preexistence. So, they know your breaking point, what your tempted by, your personality, things about you, you haven't realized yet.

Over the millenniums they've gotten good at whispering those temptations to you. But, unlike Adam and Jesus, we reside in the telestial state. Meaning that we can't actually see him and the others who're tempting us. I suppose that once we're back in the terrestrial state during the millenium, we'll be able to see Satan and the others, and we more easily ignore their whispers.

Thinking about Satan in this way makes it easier for me to avoid temptation because I can imagine him trying to whisper thoughts into my mind. They want you to think they can hear your thoughts, because then it makes them seem more powerful than they actually are. They can only whisper, but they can't hear.

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Huh? If you indeed are a member and believe the scriptures to be the word of God, then how can you not accept them (scriptures) as proof/true when discussing a subject such as Satan and Satans powers? That makes no sense!:eek:

Whaddya mean "huh?" Dogma is not evidence. It doesn't matter if I believe it, as a matter of faith, or not. I asked for evidence. Do you understand the difference between dogma and fact/reason?

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